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OfflinePed
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1881762 - 09/04/03 06:14 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Isn't agnosticism somewhat self-limiting? To believe that a higher power is unknowable surely negates the purpose of searching for those answers. What else is left after that? My job? My car repair bills? Suddenly I want to kill myself!

And so, I disagree with agnosticism, and I most certainly disagree with atheism. What do I agree with? Dispelling labels.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1881844 - 09/04/03 06:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Do any of the christians who come to this site believe that the christian god is the one true god and that anyone following any of the other religous systems in the world have basically got it wrong? If so do they believe that this mistake can in some way have negative consequences for those who make it?

Just curious...




I'm not a Christian, but you should have seen me when I first came to S&P.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: JhadAgainstReality]
    #1881903 - 09/04/03 06:54 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JhadAgainstReality said:
if i was a Hindu all my life, having been raised in a hindu environment, and then died only to see the Christian God before me saying he was the right way to heaven, i think i might have to seriously reevaluate my faith. Or if it was the other way around, and i died and saw krishna, perhaps i would have to reevaluate my beliefs too.
im not saying i have all the answers to all the questions, but gazzbut asked a question and i gave him my opinion. in all honesty i'm not any good at all when it comes to defending my beliefs 




I'm sorry, I was just under the impression that the drug crack was involved, but it was just me being a little intolerant of others views and being a little mean, I sincerely apologize. I will, however, make up for this by making you think about this a bit. :grin:

Where did your whole belief in the Christian God coming before one after they die and asking them to join him come from?

Beliefs are very powerful. I guess it may have come from the Christian view from church or whatever.. The power that they utilize is a strong one. If you can convince someone to truly believe in something, than they will believe it and not even realize where the belief came from, why they believe it, or whether or not it has any merit at all..

Telling someone that a book proves that there is an Eternal afterlife, and that the only way they can avoid Eternal Damnation is to follow God's word is a very profound thing to do. The thought of burning in Hell is something that one does not want to face. By giving someone all the answers on how to avoid this, they then will do whatever it is that they are told, if they want to avoid burning and burning and burning..

You say that if you experienced this first hand, and it was the other way around, that it was some other force or whatever is really the one asking you to join them or whatever, and it is really something that we have no way of knowing until we meet that day, then how can we actually believe that the one guy is the right guy, so to speak?

The first step to finding some truth is to question, to keep an open eye and a desire to know, and to never jump to any beliefs that have no real basis in anything, and to never be to set in the beliefs that you do choose to have..

People that have something to hide do not like people to find out what it is they are hiding. They design ways to prevent what it is they are hiding. Questioning the path that you are being pushed down is a good way to find out what is really going on, what path it is you are being pushed, where it will lead, why it is that you are being pushed, and who the fuck are you in the first place..

Building any kind of structure makes it subject to the forces of nature... It can be designed to flow with them and not be destroyed, or it can be ignorant of them and be destroyed..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1882420 - 09/04/03 08:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"Do any of the christians who come to this site believe that the christian god is the one true god and that anyone following any of the other religous systems in the world have basically got it wrong?"

The Word of God is very clear, there is no other Way.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Every other way is idolatry. Man will always try to create in his own vain mind an image of God that is simply NOT true. Man is not capable of understanding spiritual things, he is a spiritual corpse and blind to his own blindness (1 Cor 2:14, Rom 8:7, Eph 2:1, Col 2:13). This is the reason a person must be born from above (John 3:3), and given spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear. The first thing that happens in conversion is the Holy Spirit convicts a person of unrighteouness (John 16:8, Luke 18:13). Not just a few things a person does, but that the whole person is a ruined wretch, incapable of any good, and completely at the mercy of God, through Christ, for salvation. This process of conversion is given soley to those elected to eternal life (Acts 13:48). After conversion the person is made a new creation (2 Cor 5:17)(Gal 6:15), and never wants to go against the Word, in his soul. A saved soul will have godly sorrow over ungodliness (2 Cor 7:10), and will repent from it. This is true repentance, that comes from a regenerted heart (Jer 31:33, Heb 8:10, Heb 10:16).

Jesus Christ redeemed His people from their sins (Matt 1:21). It is not a mere possibility of salvation, it is an absolute certainty, determined from before the world was created (2 Tim 1:9, Eph 1:4,5,11, Tit 3:5, Rom 9:11, Rom 11:5, John 10:26-9). He bore the sins of His people and came under the wrath of God in their place (Isaiah 53:4-12), in this way He can be a just God and Saviour.

"If so do they believe that this mistake can in some way have negative consequences for those who make it?"

This question has an underlying assumption, that human "choice" is the cause of divine favor. The sole cause of divine favor is the perfect work of Christ ALONE on behalf of His people.
Rejection of the gospel only reveals what is already present, that the wrath of God already abides on a person (John 3:36), all are born condemned and in a lost state (Psalms 58:3, 1 Cor 15:22, Jer 17:9).



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OfflineZahid
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: fivepointer]
    #1882443 - 09/04/03 08:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

:rolleyes: 


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: fivepointer]
    #1882482 - 09/04/03 09:02 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I used to believe in that stuff as strongly as you. I was deeply involved in the church of God for years.

Then one day it just quit making any sense to me.

BTW,if you want to hang on to those rigid beliefs you have there , I suggest you stay away from this place!


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1882522 - 09/04/03 09:11 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Deleted by admin


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OfflineMiNiSpEtZ
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #1883673 - 09/05/03 02:31 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Worry about it later, how about we all get along and live :laugh:


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Pain is your friend, it lets you know you are still alive. Over coming pain is just a question of mind over matter, if you dont mind, it dont matter.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: fivepointer]
    #1884011 - 09/05/03 06:05 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.



This was not said by Jesus, but by Peter while talking to the religious authorities in Jerusalem, at a time before Peter had done any preaching outside of Jerusalem. By "among men" and "we" he probably referred to the people of Jerusalem only, since he could hardly be knowledgeable about all other names given among men in faraway places and at other times in history.


Quote:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



This is just a metaphorical way of saying "No man cometh unto the Father, but by the way, the truth, and the life". The gospel of John uses this and other "I am" metaphors that are not present in the other gospels. For example, in John 6:51 Jesus says: I am the living bread which came down from heaven. Few people believe that Jesus was literally a loaf of bread that floated down from heaven.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: World Spirit]
    #1884033 - 09/05/03 06:41 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

So God created someone to be born in India and indoctrinated into Hinduism, then would punish them for all eternity for believing their parents and culture? How merciful and loving!




Whats your take on this then?


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineMiNiSpEtZ
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884040 - 09/05/03 06:51 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

My take is he didnt come from god, he came from some guys teabags :tongue2:, I never saw anything in the bible that says your gonna be punished for having the wrong religion(unknowingly), but if you pratice satanism(not saying its good or bad just a example)your just plain going against what the book says. I think that as he gets older he has a choice of what his religion can be but what your parents bestill is another thing. :laugh:



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Pain is your friend, it lets you know you are still alive. Over coming pain is just a question of mind over matter, if you dont mind, it dont matter.


Edited by MiNiSpEtZ (09/05/03 06:54 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: fivepointer]
    #1884043 - 09/05/03 06:58 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
The Word of God is very clear, there is no other Way.




You mean that it was MADE very clear, so anyone who is sucked in has a hard time escaping.. Having ones spiritual views revolving soley around one religion points towards addiction and not truly seeking..

Quote:


Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.




So, what actually proves that any of this is true? Its being in the Bible doesn't actually verify it. The fact that others say it is true doesn't verify it, either.

Quote:


Man is not capable of understanding spiritual things, he is a spiritual corpse and blind to his own blindness (1 Cor 2:14, Rom 8:7, Eph 2:1, Col 2:13).




That is, when we do not seek the Truth and blindly follow the "Path" that others have set up for us.. But, I guess since the Bible says I am not capable of understanding, than I must stop trying, as the BIBLE itself says that I should..

Try freedom of thought sometime. Truly an experience.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1884096 - 09/05/03 07:53 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

So, what actually proves that any of this is true? Its being in the Bible doesn't actually verify it. The fact that others say it is true doesn't verify it, either.





I think thats where the F-word comes in! (Faith that is..!) Apparently you've either got it or you aint!!


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Always Smi2le


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884110 - 09/05/03 08:15 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I have faith, but I don't pour all my faith into something just because it says something in a book..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: Phluck]
    #1884154 - 09/05/03 08:57 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I am neither a fool or a liar, and I live my life 'in God,' and with 'God in me.'
In God, we live and move and have our being, as the Good Book says. This is so self-evident to me, that people like you remind me of the fish in the sea who don't realize that they are wet, nor how much of their being is comprised of water. God is the very Ground of Being. God=Reality. All of existence derives from God, moment-to-moment.

If YOU knew Christ (not "about Christanity"), you would 'Know' God - intimately. You would also know the universality of Christ that is present as Truth in all the high religions of the world, even though the Truth is known by other Names. Hell is known in all world religions, not just Christianity. You seem to be aware only of some exclusivist version of Christianity, wide spread though it may be, it is erroneous. 'Those who are not against us, are with us.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1884162 - 09/05/03 08:59 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

So how would you answer the original question in this thread?


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1884163 - 09/05/03 09:00 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Try praying for Wisdom sometime - the reward is greater. And don't worry, it is permissable to pray to the Unknown God, and still be Illumined.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884204 - 09/05/03 09:21 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Pardon the chuckle, but there is no such thing as "the christian god" [sic]. The Christian religion developed (and warped) following the experience of a close knit group of people to one Y'shua ben Miriam/Yosef, who lived around the area called Nazareth in 1st century Judea.

Obviously, something incomprehesible to both ancients and moderns occurred back then. It doesn't do to dismiss pre-scientific, ancient cultures as being merely stupid or superstitious. The civilizations of ancient Greece and Egypt alone should dispell such childish notions.

Whatever happened around Y'shua, the Essence still remains because the Essence is the very infrastructure of Reality - the Ground of Being - God. God isn't going anywhere because God is immanently omnipresent, and utterly transcendent - beyond the comprehension of finite human mentality. The Essence is not 'a' thing, neither it 'It' everything. 'It' is not impersonal, but is personal and transpersonal, which is to say that God is 'alive' and 'aware' and 'acting' from the heart of every atom.

In other words, as Islam says, "There is no God, but God...," and as the Jews say, "Hear O Israel, the LORD thy GOD, the LORD is ONE." God as Known by Y'shua, is the ONE GOD. Ultimate Reality is singular. How the 'attributes' of God are described differs from religion to religion, but attributes belong to the Divine Nature, not the Divine Essence, about which nothing can be Known or said - utterly Transcendent. Those in each faith who recognize "the Transcendent Unity of Religions" (F. Schuon), do not condemn each other. These are the true brethren and children of God, whatever their creed.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1884210 - 09/05/03 09:25 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I use to go to a catholic privet school as a kid, and in the religious class I asked to the priest that very same question, I said what happens to all the Chinese kids that never heard of Jesus ? (I was kid) he told me if there were good they will go to purgatory, but to go to heaven they had to be baptized.
That?s when I new that this god was a bogus and unjust one, a god that defies all logic and wanted nothing to do with it.



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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Question For the christians.. [Re: LOBO]
    #1884235 - 09/05/03 09:35 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Amen!


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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