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InvisibleZShroom
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Boundless]
    #7677479 - 11/25/07 10:42 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

aight good brother.....


Isaiah 45:7 (New American Standard Bible)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
[NASB at Lockman] [The Lockman Foundation] [NASB at Zondervan] [Zondervan]


7The One (A)forming light and (B)creating darkness,
Causing well-being and (C)creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.


what to say about this. good and evil are one in the same, even your bible tells us this. so how for all these year do you christians go on and say god is good and the "devil" is the reason for "bad" things to happen. I mean even the story of the devil is funny because he is originally one of gods angels. please elaborate on this boundless. thanx


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Boundless]
    #7677480 - 11/25/07 10:42 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Your doctrine sounds like you just created it out of thin air and is very new age. You say we can be saved, saved from what? Why would someone need saving to begin with?

Salvation is not a choice, it is a gift of God's grace.

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Offlinedrwatson
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Crasher]
    #7677581 - 11/25/07 11:21 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Firewolf127 said:
The original manuscripts for the New Testament have been cited as being written well within the first ten years after Christ's death, at which point there were already followers aside from the apostles.

I'm saying you can't call Jesus a great figure and teacher unless you believe in his divinity. That just makes him a crackpot who called himself god. Hell, I'm sure a hefty portion of the posters on the shroomery have make the same claim!




This isn't true. Source Please.

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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac]
    #7677600 - 11/25/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Isaac said:
So the earth was created in 6,000 years?

Again this is false.




Uh I believe on the 3rd day of the earths creation there was morning and there was evening......


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Offlinedrwatson
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: drwatson]
    #7677679 - 11/25/07 12:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I believe that 'god' can't be known by everyone in the same way. Period. Everyone must have their own 'understanding' of god. I agree with seeker on this. We are the mind of god - all life is. Everything is connected because everything is derived from ONE single thing. Together the entire universe is 'god'.

it's kinda funny that WE make god in OUR image.
I mean we wonder "why doesn't god fix the typos in the bible?"
"why does god let bad things happen to good people" "why doesn't god help us?"

As if god is anything like a human and thinks, or whose actions, are motivated by the same things. If you believe in god then you should see how thinking this way is arrogant. If you don't believe in god you already see how thinking this way is foolish.

That being said - IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY CONSIDER THIS:

1. There shall be no gods before me. I am a jealous god. . . etc.
2. Thou shalt not craft graven images nor picture that which is unseen, above in heaven and below the earth.

These are the 1st Two Commandments for those of you that don't know.
Now lets take these two things literally for a second and Ponder the STANDARD IDEA AND WORSHIP OF JESUS who. . .

a. died for your sins
b. followers claimed to be god
c. you must accept to get to heaven (or you burn in hell)

Now then, have you guessed where I'm going with this yet?

If we look at Deut. 32 The Song of Moses we will find the "alpha and omega" schpeal. In this Chapter god says "there are no dieties by my side. . . I am never changing" blah blah blah.

Now if there are "no dieties" by his side and "no gods before me", than Jesus is a false god.

Now lets look at the Standard Practice of Christianity. How many churches Don't have a cross in them?

What is a "Graven Image"?
An association within an "image".

What about pictures of Jesus? Is that not a graven image??
Is this not the very definition of a graven image as given in the 2nd commandment?? What about pictures of angels?

So, if the first 2 commandments are blatantly ignored by general observation and practice, yet are at the very corner stone of the teachings of the bible, how can any of the other supposed "hidden" meanings or "literal" meanings or "metaphorical" meanings be anywhere near in line with the original idea??

OF course a christian would mention something that ISN"T ONCE talked about in the bible. THE TRINITY. Oh this is the part that it becomes metaphor again because if Jesus IS GOD how can Jesus be the Son of GOD also? Oh well he can't be if you take the message literally can he?

So Justification through more philosophy. More mental IMAGES of what god is. A trinity. This is the logic of the Christian Church. This is how following Jesus is justified so that it isn't breaking the first 2 commandments.

Furthermore if you take the idea of the anti-christ into account as well, and see everything Jesus ever did or claimed to do as LITERAL, then you've got him doing EVERYTHING that the ANTI-CHRIST is suppose to do.

The Calender was changed based on HIS birthday
He Claimed to be the messiah
The Idea has Ruled (the minds of the masses) for 2000 years
Claimed to be the son of god
None would question his spiritual nature

When you're focused on getting to the Father through the Son you are going to another "god" or "diety" BEFORE "God" or "the Father".

A


A


And in the book of revelation when Jesus shows up on Dooms Day what is he carrying in his hands? "Behold I have the keys to DEATH AND HELL" is what Jesus claims in the Book of Revelation. Go read it if you don't believe me. I figured you all have read that part at least.

So, lets all take Christianity and the Bible Literally! If we do we've already created the society described by the book of revelation in the name of Jesus and therefore made at least part of the story real via a Cultural Self-Fulfilling Prophecy over a period of 2000 years.

Personally I think it's time to eat some shrooms and break the chains of history my friends. The Bible is nothing but the attempt at a previous generation to propel itself into immortality via IDEALS and MYTHOLOGY.

It is an old MEME which points us toward the original Sin which was the ILLUSION OF SEPERATENESS from "god". That my friends is called Duality and it has ruled religion and philosophy since the start.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: drwatson]
    #7677686 - 11/25/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If you don't believe in god you already see how thinking this way is foolish.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: drwatson]
    #7677948 - 11/25/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

drwatson said:
I believe that 'god' can't be known by everyone in the same way. Period. Everyone must have their own 'understanding' of god. I agree with seeker on this. We are the mind of god - all life is. Everything is connected because everything is derived from ONE single thing. Together the entire universe is 'god'.



So you just constructed this because it seems reasonable? You have no basis other than your imagination.

Quote:


it's kinda funny that WE make god in OUR image.
I mean we wonder "why doesn't god fix the typos in the bible?"
"why does god let bad things happen to good people" "why doesn't god help us?"




Ge 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

"Our" image, plural, the Godhead.

Quote:


Now lets look at the Standard Practice of Christianity. How many churches Don't have a cross in them?

What is a "Graven Image"?
An association within an "image".

What about pictures of Jesus? Is that not a graven image??
Is this not the very definition of a graven image as given in the 2nd commandment?? What about pictures of angels?

So, if the first 2 commandments are blatantly ignored by general observation and practice, yet are at the very corner stone of the teachings of the bible, how can any of the other supposed "hidden" meanings or "literal" meanings or "metaphorical" meanings be anywhere near in line with the original idea??




The Roman Catholics repeatedly break the 2nd commandment. If fact their official dogma leaves out #2 and changes the other 9 around. They re-write God's Word.

Quote:


OF course a christian would mention something that ISN"T ONCE talked about in the bible. THE TRINITY. Oh this is the part that it becomes metaphor again because if Jesus IS GOD how can Jesus be the Son of GOD also? Oh well he can't be if you take the message literally can he?





A defense of the Deity of Jesus Christ:

Jesus created the universe something only God can do:

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Isa 44:24 I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Since God alone makes all things, and Jesus created the universe, then Jesus must be God.



Jesus uses the term I AM and declares His everlastingness, something only God possesses:

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Hebrews 7:3 shows Melchisedec was a type of Christ who was:
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Rev 22:13 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.



Jesus is fully God in every way:

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Heb 1:3 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;



Jesus forgives sins, something only God can do:

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

The scribes realized Jesus was claiming to be God and considered it blasphemy: But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Lu 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?



Jesus spoke as being equal with God and one with God, the Jews understood the implications of this claim and this made them furious:

Joh 10:30-3 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.



Jesus accepted worship as God which would be sin if He wasn't God:

Lu 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mt 27:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

Lu 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus never rebukes anyone for worshipping Him.



The Saviour and God are one, and if the Saviour be God, Jesus is the Saviour, and Jesus is God:

Lu 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Isa 45:21 ...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isa 43:10-11 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.



He that honors not the Son honors not the Father:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: fivepointer]
    #7678025 - 11/25/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ge 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness




Our? The ONE TRUE God? Many true Gods?

Ge "And the sons of God found the daughters of men to be fair and fucked them silly."

Sounds like aliens having interspecies sex to me. :yesnod:


--------------------

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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: If the Christian god is real... *DELETED* [Re: drwatson]
    #7678063 - 11/25/07 01:58 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by fivepointer

Reason for deletion: duplicate post


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: fivepointer]
    #7678078 - 11/25/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

So you just constructed this because it seems reasonable? You have no basis other than your imagination.




And you have no basis for your beliefs other than a book and your imagination.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Redstorm]
    #7678101 - 11/25/07 02:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I think he has pictures of himself and God at IHOP.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Redstorm]
    #7678114 - 11/25/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

So you just constructed this because it seems reasonable? You have no basis other than your imagination.




And you have no basis for your beliefs other than a book and your imagination.




This is really what it comes down to.

What is so strange about using the supercomputer God gave me (my brain) to interpret all the information presented to me by reality in an attempt to come to the conclusion that is most sensible in my mind? I was apparently built in his image, so are my own natural faculties really so lacking for this task?

Is it really a stranger approach than getting all your answers from a book, written by some kooks (even if they were good kooks), thousands of years ago, the original text of which none of us can read, the modern text of which was translated by people with an agenda? Never mind that the original text was compiled by people with an agenda, too. The Bible is an amazing book and very much worth reading but there's just no way I'll ever look at it and see the unadulterated, Absolute Word of God.

An even trickier question too is that of Faith, because being atheist honestly takes just as much faith as it does to be an upstanding Christian who reads the Bible.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (11/25/07 02:25 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7678131 - 11/25/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Good point. It's all a best (subjective) guess. Anyone who says different hasn't been able to provide any real evidence.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7680849 - 11/26/07 08:07 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
With all the respect, fuck your god :razz:




:naughty:




:smirk:

Come here :naughty:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlinedrwatson
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7681020 - 11/26/07 09:22 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I know what the bible says so please don't use it as "evidence" for an argument I mean come on.

I'm sure I can take a bunch of random quotes from different verses and make the bible say some pretty fucked up shit but it doesn't mean that it's correct It just means that I manipulated the text to have it say something fucked up.

I know. Why don't you read Deut. 32. The ENTIRE CHAPTER not just one or two little verses that I want you to read so that you can get some other UNRELTATED meaning from those passages. Instead I'd like you to read the whole chapter. Okay?

Besides Jesus still holds "the Keys of Death and Hell" <---- jesus's words not mine.

I wonder if you asked Jesus to worship the Image of a corpse on a cross what he would do?

editFor that matter i wonder how he would feel about pretending to drink blood and eat human flesh.

Edited by drwatson (11/26/07 09:24 AM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Isaac]
    #10348947 - 05/16/09 02:39 PM (15 years, 13 days ago)

All of your modernist,logical and scientific assumptions about the book of Genesis are ALL wrong. You are approaching ancient Hebrew writings which are midrashic in nature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash [See PARDES]. The Hebrew Genesis accounts (there are two), also derive from earlier Babylonian and Chaldean sources of myth. It is a gross error not to understand the Hebrew PARDES method of interpretation, and attempt to interpret scriptures with one's 21st century common-sense, scientific or journalist approach of literal-historical accuracy. Are you not familiar with mythological writings at all? Can you not discern that Genesis is yet another creation myth? Have you not ever read or watched a Joseph Campbell interview? I am not a Hebrew scholar, but I have read enough to know that English translations miss the mystical and numerological (Gematria) significance of each letter and word combination in Genesis, which opens up into deeper and deeper intimations of metaphysical meaning. God, for example, is called Elohim before the creation, and YHVH after the creation. Elohim not only suggests plurality, but it is an unusual word which is both masculine and feminine (Hebrew words are one or the other). There are Kabbalistic models which can be expanded from just the Bereshith, the opening lines of Genesis.

You are not breaking the meanings down with a shallow and literal criticism, you are tearing the meanings up. I don't know what the names of the instruments are for doing brain surgery, nor do I know how or where to cut tissue or clamp blood vessels. You are attempting brain surgery with a hammer, chisel and X-Acto knife. Nothing will be achieved by your method except failure.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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