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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Icelander]
    #7658840 -

Icelander said:
God, darkness, and some gas.

So God IS responsible for the big bang. The old fart.:thumbup:


And just think, several hundred years from now that comment could well be believed and quoted as fact!


--------------------
You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events.

When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7659209 -

>>>>Eternal duration, even if there could be such a thing in an expanding universe with a point of origin (and a point of contraction perhaps), must necessarily extend past and future, not a line segment which begins at the point of creation. Creation and eternality are two different orders of existence.

I'm curious what you think about the work of Georg Cantor. He popularized the idea that some infinities are larger than others. He went crazy putting it down on paper, but it's an interesting idea none the less.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Rahz]
    #7659309 -

Gotta link?

Personally, I used to like 'seeing infinity' in the barber chair with mirrors fore and aft when I was a kid.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7659372 -

Georg Cantor

This also brings to mind Zeno's Paradox.

Not that I agree with a dogmatic hell of course. Just something interesting, though perhaps it has something to do with "eternal torment".


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: hummermania00]
    #7659444 -

I ignore fivepointer, but I am oddly pleased by his 'almost accurate' description of Gnostic Christianity, not to mention his generous use of the title "master of heterodoxy." Orthodoxy never made this world a better place, neither has it transformed the multitudes of superstitious people who have called themselves Christians. Orthodoxy is responsible for the interpretations of scriptural writ behind the antisemitism and corresponding pogroms, expulsions and ethnic cleansings of Jews throughout Christian history, while appropriating the Jewish mendicant peasant-teacher Iesus as their own Savior. This includes Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant forms of Christianity. Martin Luther was a notorious antisemite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

Orthodoxy is behind the so-called Holy Inquisition which tortured countless men, women and children in Name of gentle Jesus!:

2.1 Medieval Inquisition
2.2 Spanish Inquisition
2.3 Portuguese Inquisition
2.4 Roman Inquisition


Orthodoxy is behind the various Crusades:

2.1 First Crusade 1095-1099
2.1.1 Crusade of 1101
2.2 Second Crusade 1147–1149
2.3 Third Crusade 1187–1192
2.4 Fourth Crusade 1200–1204
2.5 Albigensian Crusade
2.6 Children's Crusade
2.7 Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
2.8 Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
2.9 Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
2.10 Eighth Crusade 1270
2.11 Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
2.12 Northern Crusades (Baltic and Germany)
2.13 Other crusades
2.13.1 Crusade against the Tartars
2.13.2 Crusades in the Balkans
2.13.3 Aragonese Crusade
2.13.4 Alexandrian Crusade
2.13.5 Hussite Crusade
2.13.6 Swedish Crusades

And Orthodoxy was behind the witch-hunts, called by Pagan peoples "The Burning Times," which spanned some 250 years and tortured to death tens of thousand of people, again, in the name of Christ while rationalizing those actions from certain passages in the Old Testament (Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Samuel).

Orthodoxy is responsible NOT for bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to historical manifestation as the literalists of Biblical prophesy still insanely expound, but rather Orthodoxy has manifested a proverbial Hell on Earth through the above-named atrocities against humankind.

Methinks a certain individual has confused the "Tower of Babel" with "psycho-babble," since the word babble apparently derives from a mythic incident wherein people ceased understanding a common language - much like Fundamentalists ceased understanding common sense. Babel is a mythic event symbolizing the error of seeking a physical Heaven, the result of which was chaos and lack of comprehension. Fundamentalism is a historical event where mental chaos and lack of comprehension still seeks a physical Heaven and considers a physical book to be God, instead of considering God alone to be God.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Rahz]
    #7659465 -

Thanks. Zeno - I can get the paradox, but in following Cantor's link to related topics, I bumped my head on my conceptual ceiling, since I am unfortunately not a numbers person! Transinfinite and transcendental numbers would no doubt have to be explained to me.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7659496 -

Well, I'm not really a numbers person either, but basically:

There is an infinity between 1 and 2. There is an infinity between 1 and 3 that is larger than the infinity between 1 and 2.

So, from now until forever would be an infinity, but not as big an infinity as all of time, if there were no beginning or end.

I think eternal hell is an experience strictly limited to those still breathing. "It will always be like this" is an expression of fractal infinity.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

"You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension." - Nikola Tesla

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Rahz]
    #7660022 -

I do not qualify Infinity. The infinitesimally small and the infinitely large are both equally Infinity or the 'infinite value' of the word Infinity is lost. I see Infinity as encompassing and neutralizing all opposites in formlessness. Even infinite variation or infinite multiplicity belongs to the one set which is Infinity as far as I can determine intuitively.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7663256 -

If you knew the truth about history markos and middleman you would know that the power behind the catholic church and the crucifix is the same power behind your religion markos.

Middleman, how can you say those things after I clearly pointed out that the catholic church is the antichrist. Do you think what Jesus taught inspires people to do horrible things like the catholic church did? He tought peace, loving your neighbor, forgiveness, innocence, nonviolence, truth. The catholic church does not fit with his teachings. So take a look and see why it doesn't fit. It's because he catholic church was never christian.

I just become so sick of talking with people sometimes. Just so many lies. Sometimes I'm tempted to throw my hands up and just let them lie in their pit of darkness. It's not like you can't find the truth out their if you look. But I love you guys, and I hope someday you'll all love me too.

If you are confused, remember that the devil is the author if confusion.

The truth is real, it is reasonable, and it is a true and living way, because God is true and living and reasonable.

I have nothing to do with five pointer and I'm not like him so please don't anyone lump me in with him.

mickdawg:

Quote:
fear is an effective means to achieve conformity


It sure is and there's nothing wrong with that. Scripture is plain and clear in teaching that godly fear is the beginning of wisdom. It is a wise idea to fear him. And yes the goal is conformity, conforming to the image of Christ.And there's nothing wrong with that either.

Conformity itself is not wrong. That is propoganda that people have been brainwashed with. You yourself conform to "unconformity". Fear is not wrong either. It's the type of fear and for what purpose that makes the difference.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7663574 -

"If you knew the truth about history markos and middleman you would know that the power behind the catholic church and the crucifix is the same power behind your religion markos."

Sticks-and-stones John-boy. More inflationary self-righteousness. Truth is what I serve, no need to childishly tell me that MY God is a bad God called the Devil, while YOUR God is the nice sweet God of Iesus, who is a great big fatherly bearded-guy-in-the-sky who loves John-boy but hates the sins of everyone who doesn't see God the same way that John-boy does. Delusions are excusable but rudeness is never called for. Through your inflated self-righteous indignation you have reduced yourself to a name-caller.

You are in no wise competent to conduct a theological debate in matters you know little or nothing about. I recommend that mature in your understanding and humility (if capable) before you attempt to make this forum your pulpit. You are entitled to practice your version of religion under the Constitution of the United States, but religious bigotry such as you also practice, while also protected under Constitutional Freedom of Speech, has no place in any Philosophy and Spirituality forum IMO.

BTW, I practice no religion. 'In God I live and move and have my being.' I have written this many times and it is how I perceive one who is 'in Christ,' to use Pauline language. It is the experience of early, pre-Nicean Christians who were untainted by a canon fixed by a repressive totalitarian regime. Your condemning and joyless expression of religion does not manifest any living expression of Christ to me, it appears only as anger resulting from the rejection of your personal beliefs peppered with Bible verses. If you cannot stand to learn about alternative interpretations of Bible verses, then you are not established in faith, you are suffering from the life-stultifying rigidity which you are holding onto so tenaciously. Hey, we all need a life-raft in this Ocean of Existence, but I'M not trying to torpedo yours. Hammer out your own salvation. You've got spiritual and psychological problems enough of your own and since you're not in any position to HELP me with mine, what do you suppose your motive is for saying anything at all?

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7663677 -

Quote:
Sticks-and-stones John-boy. More inflationary self-righteousness. Truth is what I serve, no need to childishly tell me that MY God is a bad God called the Devil, while YOUR God is the nice sweet God of Iesus, who is a great big fatherly bearded-guy-in-the-sky who loves John-boy but hates the sins of everyone who doesn't see God the same way that John-boy does. Delusions are excusable but rudeness is never called for. Through your inflated self-righteous indignation you have reduced yourself to a name-caller.


I'm not name calling. I'm serious. The babylonian mystery religion that helped form the rcc is the same power behind your religion. You just don't know it. You're carrying their sign with you in your "avatar".

Quote:
You are in no wise competent to conduct a theological debate in matters you know little or nothing about. I recommend that mature in your understanding and humility (if capable) before you attempt to make this forum your pulpit. You are entitled to practice your version of religion under the Constitution of the United States, but religious bigotry such as you also practice, while also protected under Constitutional Freedom of Speech, has no place in any Philosophy and Spirituality forum IMO.


Why am I not competent? Because I don't speak in long winded discourses with lack of substance like you do? The kingdom of God is not in words, but in power. I see no power in your "gospel". I'm not a bigot. I'm not here to condemn you or personally and maliciously attack you. I'm here to save, and to proclaim the truth.


Quote:
BTW, I practice no religion. 'In God I live and move and have my being.' I have written this many times and it is how I perceive one who is 'in Christ,' to use Pauline language. It is the experience of early, pre-Nicean Christians who were untainted by a canon fixed by a repressive totalitarian regime. Your condemning and joyless expression of religion does not manifest any living expression of Christ to me, it appears only as anger resulting from the rejection of your personal beliefs peppered with Bible verses. If you cannot stand to learn about alternative interpretations of Bible verses, then you are not established in faith, you are suffering from the life-stultifying rigidity which you are holding onto so tenaciously. Hey, we all need a life-raft in this Ocean of Existence, but I'M not trying to torpedo yours. Hammer out your own salvation. You've got spiritual and psychological problems enough of your own and since you're not in any position to HELP me with mine, what do you suppose your motive is for saying anything at all?



Gnosticism does fall under the term religion. You say it was some sort of conspiracy at nicea, but the n.t. fits with the o.t. perfectly. Gnosticism does not. If you wish to say there was a council at nicea, you'll have to show proof of a conspiracy from a lot further back then that. You can say it's midrash all you want, but even if it was, gnosticism still doesn't fit the o.t.

The truth is the truth, and there is no other. I will hold that "narrow" and "rigid" truth and stand on that solid rock in Christ. What's my psychological problems? I'm not trying to torpedo you at all. I'm just here, speaking where I feel is right to speak, whether for or against.

My motive is to save yours and others souls from a very real and deserved punishment. Can you consider an almighty God who is immaculately just and perfect in love whose presence spans eternity? Who is eternity?.. Can you imagine yourself standing in his presence, as you are overcome by his brightness and majesty? This is the God I stand for, and it's not just words, it's power.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7663711 -

Quote:
My motive is to save yours and others souls from a very real and deserved punishment. Can you consider an almighty God who is immaculately just and perfect in love whose presence spans eternity? Who is eternity?.. Can you imagine yourself standing in his presence, as you are overcome by his brightness and majesty? This is the God I stand for, and it's not just words, it's power.


With all the respect, fuck your god :razz:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7663785 -

"A God who is just and perfect in love," who will damn you to an eternity of agony, roasting in the fires of hell if you do not accept him as your Lord and Savior? 

:rofl:  :rofl2:

It would be truly funny if it wasn't so very ignorant and sad.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: Veritas]
    #7663810 -

Just bow before my avatar. :satan: All we do is have one helluva good time.

Dogma-free sex, drugs & rock & roll, baby! No pesky rules. I don't even require weekly worship services.


--------------------

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7664526 -

Forget all these false saviors. All hail Bob!



Guaranteed salvation or triple your money back!


--------------------

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7665118 -

Long winded I can be, but 'without substance' just illustrates your own lack of education in the matters that I discuss. Gnosticism is not 'a' religion. You have not read a single book by Hans Jonas, Elaine Pagels or anyone else with any intellectual gravitas or else you would understand that Gnosticism refers to a complex of extremely diverse views under Jewish, Pagan and Christian world view

I do not have a gospel, but I am conversant with the Nag Hammadi library. Any understanding of Christianity that does not take this magnificent discovery into account is as ignorant as ignorance can be. It is another case of 'don't confuse me with the facts, I've made up my mind.'

You ARE a religious bigot and you've amply demonstrated this by your contempt for any and all religions other than your own as well as aspects of Christendom that do not agree with your own puerile version.

Yes, your god is "power," and that choice of word tells much. I do not see God as power. You see, our mental conceptions of God do not reveal anything about God. You are too young, inexperienced and naive to understand that. What our mental conceptions of God reveal is nothing other than the condition of our own mind. Psychological blind spots are filled with Bible quotations from other people's experiences, not your own.

The other thing that reveals your intrinsic power motive - nothing other than inflationary ego - is that you 'believe' that YOU can 'save' individuals. You are suffering from hubris - pride - and you don't even know it. So profound is your presumption that you affirm your spiritual superiority over others. You are therefore pathologically inflated in your narcissistic sense of superiority. If this language evokes your preferred term "psycho-babble," it is because you have not taken the time and effort to understand yourself psychologically. This leaves you with major psychological blind-spots about yourself - essential unconsciousness. Neither have you sought out someone to analyze and reflect these blind-spots to you and you wrongly think that the ancient words in a book can supply your own inner life with someone else's experience. Spiritual inflation is symptomatic of several conditions but self-knowledge isn't one of them.

Nobody 'saves' anyone else from anything of a spiritual or metaphysical condition. You are sorely confused and neither know or understand that among the Gnostics, there is a psychological system that applies to all peoples including yourself. It is simple and brilliant and clearly delineates the Hylics, Psychics and Pneumatics. You clearly fall into the Psychic (Psychological) category of believers and not the Pneumatic (Spiritual) category by the very language you use. Do not presume to lecture me in things you are ignorant about, or evaluate my words on the basis of your own erroneous and delusional thinking. You are already living a tormented existence for which I feel sadness. Your motive is not to "save" anyone - that is an obvious self-delusion. Your words are not motivated by Compassion, but by a need to convince yourself of your cardboard version of Christianity by attempting to 'conquer' others. Your whole trip is one huge overcompensation for doubt.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7677074 -

MushroomTrip said:
With all the respect, fuck your god :razz:


:naughty:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7677083 -

Catholicism is a complete load of bullshit, in fact all organized religion is bullshit.
It's all just crowd control.

To think that your "God" is the one and only God, the right God, is so stupid and naive.


God is everything and everywhere. Someone said, people get confused with God is Good when in actuality Good is God. The flow of time, nature, and space is God.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: opensaysme]
    #7677212 -

opensaysme said:
Catholicism is a complete load of bullshit, in fact all organized religion is bullshit.
It's all just crowd control.

To think that your "God" is the one and only God, the right God, is so stupid and naive.


God is everything and everywhere. Someone said, people get confused with God is Good when in actuality Good is God. The flow of time, nature, and space is God.


I agree that "Catholicism is a complete load of bullshit". Christianity and Catholicism are two different things.

Aren't you "stupid and naive" when you assert with confidence that "God is everything and everywhere"? How do you know this to be true? Maybe your everything and everywhere God doesn't exit in reality. Sounds like you are on one hand railing against those who have a solid conception of God while you also have a solid conception, so you should be railing against yourself, right?

There is only one God and one reality, just because someone thinks a certain way does not make it true.

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Re: If the Christian god is real... [Re: opensaysme]
    #7677374 -

Hello good brothers,

I say if we wish to prosper in peace shall we not forgive our brothers of there misdoings and our own? Those of us quick to attack are only placing judgment upon ourselves. Let us free our minds of little attacks on the truth, and unchain ourselves from delusions.

If we have love in our hearts we CAN be free. Now what is love you ask?

Love is the truth. Love is unconditioned. Love is perfect and eternal, it sees no blame, and sees no guilt anywhere. It can not harm or do injustice to anyone. It is perfectly painless and full of joy. Free from forms or concepts its purity is untarnished.

Now you ask can a thought be love? Yes! Our true minds, held perfectly safe in Gods mind are filled with loving thoughts! Though we may not realize this as we firmly grasp on to illusions.

We CAN be saved this moment if we choose, simply by making a decision.
One decision is all that is needed, to make it once fully and with all your heart and mind and you will be free.

It is only one choice!

Now you choose the Christ in you, or choose the ego.
Choose the spirit in you or choose nothing at all.
Choose God and life! or choose sin and death.
Choose everything and the ego will vanish.

Choose your bread or choose your poison, for every choice you make can nourish you or take you away.

Whatever you believe if you feel guilt or shame, you can be sure you have chosen incorrectly.

So now are we here with one sensible choice to make. Affirm it in your mind and you will be free. The will flows naturally to whatever it values. So value this choice and share it with others and strengthen yourself with this great idea.

This is the path to freedom.

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