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 Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. 
#956329 - 10/13/02 02:51 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well... he didn't.
Simple as that.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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 Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#956358 - 10/13/02 03:11 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cool.
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whiterasta
Day careobserver
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
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 Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#956595 - 10/13/02 08:22 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Resorting to simple semantics? Of course he didn't He was an ancient Jew,we actually "know" little about this God other than what has been sanitized and placed in the Old Teastament.The actual teachings of Christ are profoundly simple in their economy of "law".It is the true application of the teachings of Christ which some of us are striving for in our lives as followers of Christ.The term "christian" has become far too general to actually define anything save perhaps a repressive "powder wig and sodomy" type of watered down ritualism.Again; Of course Jesus the Christ did not worship the "christian" God,he hadn't been created yet.As for who Jesus worshiped there are subtle clues,however they become superfluous as following Christ is to gain knowlege of GOD on a level beyond historical description,and "worship" has a deeper meaning than lip and financial service to a man made eddifice.To truly folow Christ you MUST see and recognize the "god" in everything and therefore honor all of creation (even that which displeases us) and to recognize that there are those whose path will not let them experience the spirit of God that permeates reality(physics is close to describing it with chaos theory and potential reality but they refuse to acknowlege the intelligence within that which they are attempting to descibe).I hope that i have clarified the semantic quandry you tried to create and that you may someday experience the completion one feels as the "life"of creation is revealed to you.Peace WR
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To old for this place
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 MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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 Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: whiterasta]
#956608 - 10/13/02 08:32 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Way cool.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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xganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#956622 - 10/13/02 09:02 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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He believed in that which he believed in. Whether the "Christian God" (which can mean many things) matches with that depends on the local definition of the "Christian God" of whatever mind-context the statement is being made in. Of course, there are no global definitions, and we really have no accurate source of Christ's. Who says each mode of the mind's operation can't become "Enlightened" in it's own way, with a little help from the others?
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Please remove all dollar signs from my listed contact information
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#956636 - 10/13/02 09:18 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Blasphemer! Repent before it's too late.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Adom
Totally Nude
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,877
Loc: Way Up North
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#956673 - 10/13/02 10:07 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Blah he was tapped straight into it.
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#956680 - 10/13/02 10:13 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: World Spirit]
#956763 - 10/13/02 11:24 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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You just did.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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CleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...
Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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 Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Evolving]
#956773 - 10/13/02 11:31 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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hahah, seriously, what were you thinking 
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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?
this is the purpose
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#956954 - 10/13/02 12:53 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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More importantly, Jesus did not worship himself. As we are directed to use him as a role model, likewise, we should not worship him.
To paraphrase the title of your thread: Jesus was not a Christian.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Swami]
#957118 - 10/13/02 02:13 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Jesus was not a Christian.
He was a pretty cool guy tho.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: CleverName]
#957127 - 10/13/02 02:15 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Xlea321]
#957131 - 10/13/02 02:17 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Evolving]
#957137 - 10/13/02 02:20 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Swami]
#957141 - 10/13/02 02:21 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#957144 - 10/13/02 02:22 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#957149 - 10/13/02 02:23 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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Smack31
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: World Spirit]
#957481 - 10/13/02 05:02 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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i want a link too... please please please.. 
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Smack31
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Smack31]
#957494 - 10/13/02 05:07 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Search words "smack"
Sorry, we found no verses matching your specifications. Try a different search type, or a different Bible version.
 ... my god has forsaken me
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Smack31]
#957652 - 10/13/02 06:05 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: World Spirit]
#957825 - 10/13/02 07:11 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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For a guy that doesn't respond, you sure are busy responding with the links. I do think Sclorch has a point.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Evolving]
#957857 - 10/13/02 07:22 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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Anonymous
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: World Spirit]
#957947 - 10/13/02 07:50 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Finally snap?
Trying posting the links in one post in the future. We try to keep spam to a minimum in here.
Thanks,
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whiterastahippie
lover
Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Swami]
#957968 - 10/13/02 07:57 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jesus was not a Christian.
duh.
the word christian means "little christ" or "like christ". of course jesus didn't worship the christian god. he IS the christian god. much like ras tafari/haile selassie is the rastafari god.
by the way...hey guys, long time no see...miss me?  
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Peace and Love to all!
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Anonymous
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: whiterastahippie]
#957977 - 10/13/02 08:01 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can you change the link in your sig? It is making every thread you post in go wide. Use the link feature and type in 'go here' or something.
Thanks
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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 Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: whiterastahippie]
#957997 - 10/13/02 08:09 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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whiterastahippie
lover
Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: World Spirit]
#958088 - 10/13/02 08:53 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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sweet! i'm loved by one! hey plato, is that better for my sig line?
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V
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Peace and Love to all!
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Beauville
Satyr
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 46
Loc: suitcase city
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#958183 - 10/13/02 09:22 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Of all the things I find endearing in an individual, I do say that being succinct is in the upper echelon. Therefore Sclorch, you are a neccesity.
Bville
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"...spite to all the genre elitists."
"...just because you feel sorry for someone is no reason to be nice to them."
"May all your corvettes be stingray convertibles, and may all your doses be heroic"
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Remy
Bitches Brew
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#958406 - 10/13/02 10:34 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Technically, according to the major forms of modern christianity, Jesus did worship the same god that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship today.
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Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Remy]
#958450 - 10/13/02 10:50 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Technically, according to the major forms of modern christianity, Jesus did worship the same god that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship today.
Makes you think doesn't it?  I'm not even sure how there can be a 'different God' with each religion - since each religion teaches to worship "the One God". If you worship the one God (with true monotheism), obviously it's the only God.
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Anonymous
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: whiterastahippie]
#958575 - 10/13/02 11:26 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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You got it big fella!
Cheers,
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Remy]
#959167 - 10/14/02 05:36 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Technically, according to the major forms of modern christianity, Jesus did worship the same god that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship today.
Actually.... NO, he didn't.
But he did raise hell in the temple.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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whiterastahippie
lover
Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#959359 - 10/14/02 09:28 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Actually.... NO, he didn't.
right...he didn't, he worshipped.... Sclorch !!!!!!!
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Peace and Love to all!
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: whiterastahippie]
#959842 - 10/14/02 01:41 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Even if that were logically possible... nope, he wouldn't have.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#959881 - 10/14/02 01:58 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Jesus believed in God, a christian is a "follower of christ" who believes in the same God Jesus talked about.
So why doesn't Jesus believe in the same god as a christians?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#959884 - 10/14/02 01:58 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Even if that were logically possible... nope, he wouldn't have.
Why not?
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Zahid]
#959948 - 10/14/02 02:24 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sclorch: Even if that were logically possible... nope, he wouldn't have.
Zahid: Why not?
Rather than continue arguing...
Check out these excerpts from The "Scholars' Translation" of the Gospel of Thomas
1 And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."
It's a terrible tragedy that this line is not found in the Bible.
A similar phrase is found in the Bible, "He who believes in me shall not taste death but have eternal life"... but it just doesn't have the same effect.
3 Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."
Think Jesus might?ve been familiar with Socrates? If he wasn?t, Didymos Judas Thomas was.
9 Jesus said, Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure.
Ah? the old nature/nurture argument brought together with a beautiful analogy.
29 Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels.
Yet I marvel at how this great wealth has come to dwell in this poverty."
It just doesn?t get any better than that.
39 Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.
As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."
I?ll stop here. If you haven?t read it before, please do.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#959954 - 10/14/02 02:27 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am convinced that the early christians subscribed to a religion that was more like the Gospel of Thomas (which reads like Zen). Too bad a fucker like Constantine (a control freak, no doubt) re-wrote the Bible and left alot of useful information out.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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whiterasta
Day careobserver
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#959996 - 10/14/02 02:42 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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AMEN to that! That Phucking(or not ,that is the problem I believe) misogynist Paul has left a legacy of shame upon the following of Christ.That and endless revision of politicly incorrect gospel Peace WR
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To old for this place
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Anonymous
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#960248 - 10/14/02 04:35 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting what historians do with ancients texts now isn't it?
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: ]
#960273 - 10/14/02 04:44 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting what historians do with ancients texts now isn't it?
Interesting what you do with ambiguity now isn't it?
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#960303 - 10/14/02 04:53 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ambiguous? Me?
Whatever are you talking about?
Cheers,
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Remy
Bitches Brew
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#960545 - 10/14/02 06:06 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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In reply to:
Actually.... NO, he didn't.
Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the same god. So If Jesus was a follower of Judaism, then he was worshipping the same god that his followers would worship, and later the Muslims. Judaism is the original interpretation of God's word, Christianity is a continuation, and Islam is a new interpretation.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Remy]
#960759 - 10/14/02 07:22 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I posit that Jesus was a Jew only culturally speaking. Christianity is the dogmatic interpretation of the "life" and "word" of Jesus, the zen master and existentialist. Islam is most likely a derivative of Christianity.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#961409 - 10/14/02 10:45 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Islam is most likely a derivative of Christianity.
A derivative? Most skeptics of religion (along with Christian fundamentalists) believe that; some atheists also believe each world religion derived itself from a previous one. I'm not going to the bother with the details, but the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Lah did not have any knowledge of the Gospels at all, although he was somewhat aware of the presence of Jewish tribes in the area. At that, Muhammad was illiterate. The two decades of Qur'aanic revelation in 6th century Arabia are more than just a 'derivative of Christianity'.
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Beauville
Satyr
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 46
Loc: suitcase city
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#961543 - 10/14/02 11:17 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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'Strewth. I canna' fook wit that one eh?
Soory, Ive been drinking stout and I feel cockney
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"...spite to all the genre elitists."
"...just because you feel sorry for someone is no reason to be nice to them."
"May all your corvettes be stingray convertibles, and may all your doses be heroic"
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Beauville]
#961694 - 10/14/02 11:53 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stout = good = almost-a-meal
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Beauville
Satyr
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 46
Loc: suitcase city
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#964737 - 10/15/02 11:35 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is by far the most hilarious thread I have read so far in the confused content over such a simple statement. Good job.
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"...spite to all the genre elitists."
"...just because you feel sorry for someone is no reason to be nice to them."
"May all your corvettes be stingray convertibles, and may all your doses be heroic"
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Anonymous
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 Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Sclorch]
#965499 - 10/16/02 08:50 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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i was asked not to return to a church because my discussions with "elders", who by the way were nice people, things like: what my soul is.... what did jesus do during the 17 years the bible makes no reference of him.... "religious" men stealing hundreds of millions of dollars getting caught doing it and are quoted as saying, "god will get me through all of this"... hmmmm
pat robertson sits on the board of a scottish bank that gives out world bank loans... jesus would bitch slap that asswipe... jesus would not want war over oil...jesus would not want us pissing away the worlds resources and polluting the world the way we have.... i know.... god will come back and restore everything to the beauty that once was.... hmmmm that may be .... but it will occur over periods of time comparable to what was needed to get the world to the point of it?s developement before we showed up and began fucking with things... now i realize that that time window is a wide one ranging from several days to millions of years... to me its all the same... because the same life force that formed our reality can not be a slave to time... time is meaningless in the equation that equals god... time is what makes us mortal and i believe jesus was down with dat!
the catholic church was faced with a dilema during it?s earlier days... it was forced to give us, to read on our own, the word of "god"... not because they wanted to, but because humans demanded it be so at one point in time.... i believe the book we read is corrupted by power greedy men who needed to keep us on their leash. we needed to feel sinful and worthless in order for some type of control to be maintained... i would have made it a point to be a friend of jesus... i could see myself as apostle "me" .... the gospel according to me would have been trashed by the catholic church for sure... too much truth... rest assured i would have made a copy and given it to my lawyer just in case of such an event... can?t have the people believing god exists within each of us on a cellular level (more on my concept of soul, some other appropriate time)
i believe jesus was a buddhist more then he ever was a christian in the modern sense... enough rambling .... i hope this post is consistant with the intent of the thread... i enjoy tossing idea?s like this around...
teonacatyl is one of a few keys that open the door to heaven... peace
Anni
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whiterastahippie
lover
Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 718
Loc: look into a child's eyes,...
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: Anonymous]
#965825 - 10/16/02 12:26 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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In reply to:
the catholic church was faced with a dilema during it's earlier days... it was forced to give us, to read on our own, the word of "god"... not because they wanted to, but because humans demanded it be so at one point in time
riiiiiight.
actually, it's not that the bible was kept from people. true, it was chained to churches...but ANYBODY was free to go into the church and read the bible...and if you couldn't read, the priest could...any of your friends that actually owned a business of any sort could. lots of people knew latin for a looooooong time. it didn't just pop out of existence when the roman empire fell.
the bible had to be kept chained to churches because it cost as much to make a bible back then as it did for a man to buy a house. they didn't have paper and pencil in those days. they had parchment....sheepskin. they had to kill hundreds of sheep just to make one complete bible. that's why they couldn't be passed out freely. but you were free to read it anytime you wanted.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,491
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Re: Jesus didn't believe in the Christian God. [Re: whiterastahippie]
#968308 - 10/17/02 06:43 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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the roman catholic church did strongly discourage the laity from reading the scriptures... (even into the late 19th & early 20th centuries)
one of the greatest things martin luther did was translating the bible into german... and the gutenburg press made relatively inexpensive copies available for the masses...
as to what jesus believed... well, he was probably closest to the pharisees... but some of his followers were definitely zealots... and his "forerunner" (john the baptist) was almost certainly influenced by essenes...
& as for saul/paul of tarsus... well, that's another story, hehheh...
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old enough to know better
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