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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: The Pantagonist]
    #27675955 -

Welcome Pentagonist! I have not tried what you described but I'm hoping someone else has. I just mixed a couple small bags of PC'd HWFP and pasteurized coir/straw/hpoo mix for gyms yesterday, hoping it doesn't contam...


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Mr.Giggles]
    #27675964 -

Welcome! I have never tried that, but thinking about it - it sounds like a pretty good idea. My guess is, the common thinking would be that pasteurization should kill all the pathogenic fungus and bacteria anyway, so just sterilizing the straw isn't needed. But perhaps there are some pathogenic bacteria that survive pasteurization? If so this could help.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight] * 2
    #27675972 -

Lately I've been doing more work then necessary. Cold lime everything then pasteurize a few days later.
Ran into issues with either on it's own and I know my spawn is clean.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: rockyfungus]
    #27676032 -

I guess my thoughts were that pasteurizing isn't going to kill the endospores inside the seeds of the straw.... Sterilizing the straw separately would kill the endospores and then mixing it with the manure and pasteurizing your bulk would keep the beneficial bacteria (from the manure) and allow it to do it's thing.

Edited by The Pantagonist (02/27/22 09:28 PM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: The Pantagonist]
    #27676132 -

That's a good point and a good theory. I never really thought about it being endorspores in the seeds that were the source of contamination (though it's definitely possible). I always just assumed it was the open-air environment of your growing area.... meaning, no matter how you prep your straw (sterilize, pasteurize, whatever), you're going to have plump hydrated seeds that have not been colonized by your mycelium and are therefore a wide open contamination vector - just like a jar of prepped grain sitting wide open on the counter would be. That grain will contaminate. Some say that the bacteria that colonize the grain after pasteurization (and especially after a 3-7 day post-pasteurization aging) will fight off any pathogens (bacterial or fungal), but if that were the case, we could pasteurize our grain spawn jars instead of sterilizing them.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight]
    #27676202 -

That is a definite possibility. There are so many variables:grin:. I'm wondering if pasteurizing the bulk ( sterilized straw, manure, vermiculite) in a unicorn bag and then inoculating the aged bulk with colonized grain would create enough of a closed controlled environment to cut back on the risk of contamination.

Edited by The Pantagonist (03/01/22 06:52 AM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: The Pantagonist]
    #27676233 -

That’s somewhat similar to what Asura used to do - only he would sterilize uncolonized grain mixed with the substrate and inject the whole lot with a bunch of LC. It worked well for him but he isn’t doing it that way anymore. One drawback to that method, and bags in general, is the extra time it takes to reconsolidate after you dump the bag into a tray. You could fruit it directly from the bag but the footprint is a bit small.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight]
    #27676472 -

Hi  i thought for indospores you have to pre soak for 24 houres before cooking. As I undestand ruawakeyet It's contaimt with molds. I have read that to high pasteuriz Temps Can do that as I kills the good bacteria that helps fighting against and hold back molds. But as Hindsight says some und colonized gains Will be attackt quikly by mold. What about cold pasteurize the straw First in hydrat lime before mixing the substrat and warm pasteurize to slow down germinate of molds

Edited by THE MYCOSMITH (02/28/22 08:12 AM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27676505 -

Hindsight said:
Some say that the bacteria that colonize the grain after pasteurization (and especially after a 3-7 day post-pasteurization aging) will fight off any pathogens (bacterial or fungal), but if that were the case, we could pasteurize our grain spawn jars instead of sterilizing them.


No we couldn't. The point of grain spawn is to provide nutrients to fungus, not bacteria. But with unwanted seeds in bulk substrate, you can't remove them, and sterilizing them would invite molds. So you can leave them to the bacteria, they will deplete the nutrients but not hurt the rest of the substrate.


--------------------
Shrooms are always bluer on the other side...

Work hard, play harder, trip the hardest.

Simple Cloning TEK by Adas
Semi-Sterile TEK (SS-TEK)
Growing Panaeolus bisporus - The Low-Tech approach
Exotic Mycelia Surviving Winter - Creating IceBreaker Variants!
My First Panaeolus Cyanescens Grow!
Psilocybe azurescens photo compilation 2020
Azurescens in June!

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Adas]
    #27676560 -

Hindsight did you do anything differently to fruit your bisporus compared to cyans (lower temps, etc) and what differences did you notice in fruiting behaviour, time to primorida formation, FAE requirements, consolidation period, etc? I looked at the previous posts but didn't find much, seems like this is your first bispo grow and you germed the spores around 2 months ago? If you have a more detailed info on the bispo can you link to the post/journal entry? Thanks.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Adas]
    #27676628 -

Adas said:
No we couldn't. The point of grain spawn is to provide nutrients to fungus, not bacteria. But with unwanted seeds in bulk substrate, you can't remove them, and sterilizing them would invite molds. So you can leave them to the bacteria, they will deplete the nutrients but not hurt the rest of the substrate.


Thanks Adas - I never thought about the beneficial bacteria actually depleting the seeds of their nutrients - instead I had assumed that the bacteria colonizing the grains were simply fighting any molds that tried to attach themselves (like mycelium does on our grain spawn). Maybe that is why people are saying that aging the substrate about a week after pasteurization is so important.... that it gives the bacteria time to deplete those nutrients. This makes me want to think about how I could possibly run some experiments to see if that is what is happening and also fine tune things like how long it actually takes and what temps/duration/aging are best, etc.

moonwatcher said:
Hindsight did you do anything differently to fruit your bisporus compared to cyans (lower temps, etc) and what differences did you notice in fruiting behaviour, time to primorida formation, FAE requirements, consolidation period, etc? I looked at the previous posts but didn't find much, seems like this is your first bispo grow and you germed the spores around 2 months ago? If you have a more detailed info on the bispo can you link to the post/journal entry? Thanks.


No nothing different than pans. Same tent, same sub, same process, same everything. I run my tent a bit hot - around 78-80F. Fruiting behavior is about the same really. The biggest difference I noticed is that the bispo mycelium is thinner and more wispy than pan cyan mycelium, to the point that it looks like mold on a straw/manure substrate. I have been growing so many different thinks lately that I just didn't do a great job of documenting exactly what I did but it's same as for pans. I will say I don't think I ever had success growing bispos in shallow trays. These days I have switched over to 6qt shoeboxes in my tent, and my substrate depth is around 2.5 to 3" for all varieties I grow in the tent (bispos, cyans, tamps, semps, etc). I just use aged manure, verm, and straw or coir. I've tried many combinations - verm+manure only, manure+coir only, etc. They all work. Casing is just 50/50 or 50/50+ sometimes. I find it helps to have a lot of lime in the casing (0.88Tbps of hydrated lime per quart of casing). Consolidation and colonization time is about the same as anything else. They might take longer to pin though, but I don't do anything different. I let the trays consolidate for a day or two after reaching 100% colonization, then I case, wait another 2-7 days and put them in the tent then it's hands-off from there. I keep my tent cycles dialed to where the casing surface always remains quite moist, but not pooling.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight] * 2
    #27676921 -

Brilliant thread, some great insights all round!

Just about to take the pan plunge. I grabbed a bit of myc from a T1 germination plate and put it to LC in a panic but everything looks good with it.

Anyways. I’ve got 3 T2 plates that as far as I can tell look half decent. Was just looking to get some more experienced eyes on them to advise where would be best to transfer to another LC I have made up. I may make a few more or I might just throw one of these plates straight to grain depending on what you guys think. Oh and these are Pan Cyan Jamaican as well (Pan Jambo?)

Here’s the plates:


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Natedawgnow’s Mush Cult Hacks Post


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: SwabMarley]
    #27676993 -

Welcome to the crazy!

First plate I'd do 11:00, second plate looks fine but in need of more transfers - if I had to pick I'd go with 4:00, third plate I'd probably do 2:00.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27677002 -

Hindsight said:
Welcome to the crazy!

First plate I'd do 11:00, second plate looks fine but in need of more transfers - if I had to pick I'd go with 4:00, third plate I'd probably do 2:00.


Thanks bud, appreciate the insight. Gunna get those to some LC’s. Been following a lot of your grows, impressive shit! :thumbup:


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Natedawgnow’s Mush Cult Hacks Post


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: SwabMarley]
    #27677143 -



Help I think I made a mistake.

I have 4 pan Bisporus on hpoo shoeboxes that I already cased.

I think I made a mistake because the casing is over colonized. I thought I was supposed to wait until pins showed to put in the SGFC but it looks like I was only supposed to wait 24 hours and it’s been about a week.

What should I do? Recase and put in fruiting chamber?

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: KingCloyster] * 2
    #27677250 -

Don't sweat it KingCloyster. I have had to leave town after casing a tray and left it sitting there 1-2 weeks before putting to fruiting tent. It grew out just fine. Some say it isn't as optimal in terms of the flush you will get but I have still had some fine grows that way. Just re-case it and put it into your SGFC. There is also no rule for how long to let it sit after casing. Some wait 0 days, some wait 1 week, or anywhere in between. I've tried it all and haven't seen any drastic difference that leads me to believe it even matters much, but I haven't been scientific about it. Plus there are a lot of variables that impact performance making it a difficult test to do. Bottom line: You are totally fine at 1 week.... consider it consolidation time, which we all recommend anyway. Roughly one week between 100% colonization and start of fruiting is good IMHO.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight]
    #27679060 -



LME agar, no food coloring. This is looking better.

How many more transfers should I make before adding to grain? These are T4.

Edited by Panny (03/02/22 12:05 PM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Panny]
    #27679426 -

None, I would send those once they grow out more.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight]
    #27679648 -

Gunna throw it to some grain tomorrow night!


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Natedawgnow’s Mush Cult Hacks Post


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: SwabMarley] * 2
    #27679838 -

Guys, I have finally written down the shocking news.

Something I've never seen done before. I have left some Tampanensis and Pan Cyan plates on my balcony for 2 coldest months of the winter, and they both survived! See my Journal post about IceBreaker variants of exotic species. Any input is greatly welcome!

I've done this mainly because people always say how their Pan Cyan struggles in cold storage. Enjoy.

#ShamelessCrosspost


--------------------
Shrooms are always bluer on the other side...

Work hard, play harder, trip the hardest.

Simple Cloning TEK by Adas
Semi-Sterile TEK (SS-TEK)
Growing Panaeolus bisporus - The Low-Tech approach
Exotic Mycelia Surviving Winter - Creating IceBreaker Variants!
My First Panaeolus Cyanescens Grow!
Psilocybe azurescens photo compilation 2020
Azurescens in June!

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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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