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OfflinePanny
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27691818 - 03/11/22 10:22 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Crackatoa said:
Quote:

Panny said:
Why is peat moss used instead of Coco coir?



Myc won't colonize peat moss like it will coir.



Quote:

Hindsight said:
I go to sleep for a night and so many good questions when I wake up.....

Quote:

Myc Hunt said:
So, quick question regarding a casing layer, I’ve just found that the lime I have already is dolomite lime and contains 10-12% magnesium which I’ve read is a no no (2% max). Could I just use the peat moss I have with some Verm? I have a soil PH meter so could obviously test this myself but if anyone has experience that can save me fucking about it would be greatly appreciate. Pan Jambos are still colonising so got a few weeks.

If it’s of any relevance, I have some gypsum on hand which is calcium sulphate 55% SO3 28% Ca. Would this be of any use?

Edit: As the time draws nearer I’ve found that the peat moss I have (Had it for like a year, never touched it) typically has a PH of between 4.9-5.5 this would definitely need some lime in my opinion so I guess I’m gunna have to find some suitable lime to bring the PH up?




Like Rocky, I use Hi-Yield brand hydrated lime (and it is the gold standard if you follow the TCs  here). You could use other brands so long as the chemical make-up is the same as hi-yield (that is, Calcium Hydroxide, NOT Calcium Oxide). It is fast acting but won't burn in the right amount. For casing, you want to use 0.88 TBS Hydrated Lime per quart of verm+peat. I have had the best results with this amount but am still experimenting. So far I have tried less - I've done 6g per gallon of distilled water, shake, then add to dry casing mix in order to hydrate. I have found PH testing is somewhat worthless because it doesn't work well. I have tried both meters and test strips. I don't really see much change unless adding massive amounts.

Quote:

Panny said:
Why is peat moss used instead of Coco coir?




Peat is considered to have zero nutritional value while coir is considered to have some.... coir doesn't have enough to feed mycelium but there is enough in it that the mycelium always colonize it, whereas mycelium won't colonize peat. Pasty did a test recently to prove whether coir has nutrition or if it just acts as a water reservoir and he proved that it only acts as a water reservoir. He injected some LC into hydrated coir. No grains. The mycelium struggled and never fully colonized nor fruited. But there must be something in coir that draws mycelium to colonize because any coir you use will end up colonized. The same is not true for peat, and because you want to keep your casing layer uncolonized, you use peat as the casing layer. It's also better than plain verm because it allows you to better judge hydration level.


Quote:

moonwatcher said:
Quote:

Hindsight said:
Thanks Crack. Ratio on this one was around 1:2 - 1:3. I've been mostly eyeballing it lately and I range anywhere from 1:2-1:4. For MS grows I go for around a 2" depth and for clone grows I go for around 3-3.5" depth. The only reason for doing less in MS grows is that I don't want to waste sub on a non-fruiting or poorly fruiting culture. Manure is expensive and difficult for me to get for now so that's why I hate wasting it. I have a wheelbarrow sized pile outside aging and if it ends up working well, I may go 3" on everything. 3" depth corresponds to a 1:4 ratio with 1qt of spawn.




Hindsight, what would you say is the prevalence of those 'non-fruiting or poorly fruiting' cultures percentage-wise?

After about 2 months I keep getting spindly fruits that don't open their caps and abort, despite trying all sorts of different conditions and subs/hydration levels/etc. I just streaked new plates to see if my culture might be to blame.




That is a fantastic question. It COULD be your conditions - especially if you are having caps that don't open, but if it is genetics, here goes...... I have not tracked it and it is probably quite subjective to how I'm feeling at any given moment. It varies by print, and varies by variety/species too. If we are talking about a tray that has a full, or nearly full canopy that I would be proud to post a photo of... something like this tray of Peace River I recently fruited:



I would say I get a tray like this:
Tampanensis: 70%
Pan Cyans: 30-60%, varying wildly based on specific variety. I've had some that were 0% and some that were 75% but if you add everything I've grown or tried to grow together and averaged it, I'd say it's like 30% or even less. NecD has been the most reliable for me personally.
Pan Bispos: 15-20%

Move over to cubes/nats and it's more like 75-90%

These numbers are from MS grows where the prints are new to me.

I get trays like this plenty of times, as well as trays that never fruit, or just produce one or several measly fruits:


And sometimes I get mediocre flushes like this:



I'm of the belief that it is a numbers game. You just have to try to fruit as many cultures as possible. There are several ways of doing that as I outlined previously, but to summarize:
1. Use a spore syringe directly on a cake. No agar. No grains. Requires your syringe be exceedingly clean (if tested on agar, you see no contams). Gets you the largest amount of genetic diversity.

2. Use agar, take a lot of transfers off the germination plate onto unique plates and don't do any further transferring prior to going to grain, except if you MUST to clean it up. Don't look for even/consistent growth in the T1. You'll probably have a lot of genetics in each T1 and it will grow lopsided with many different sectors. This is what you want. Makes it harder to ensure there's nothing bad growing on it but at the very least, you'll be able to see if there's any bacteria on it.

3. Same as #2 only put ~4x or so transfers from the germination plate per 1x T1 plate. So if you take 12 transfers from the germ plate, you'll have 3x T1 plates, each with 4 transfers on them. Same rules as #2 - goal is to go to grain right from that plate. This reduces the number of plates, grain jars, and separate tubs you'll have to fruit. It looks like this:



I've done #2 and #3 a lot. I've never done #1 exactly as I outlined it above... in the past when I have used a cake, I've let the spores germinate then taken a tiny piece of it to knock up some agar plates, or I have shredded the BRF cake and put it to bulk sub. But I am going to start using #1 exactly as-written now that I have a good library of clean spore prints I have taken myself off my own grows.


 

Thanks for your responses. It makes sense


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OfflineHongosamongus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Panny]
    #27693017 - 03/12/22 07:41 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Sorry, which variety is NecD?


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hongosamongus] * 1
    #27693058 - 03/12/22 08:12 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

The panaeolus NecD is a cross between a panaeolus tropicalis and the panaeolus cyanescens, creating an entirely new species of mushroom. Jakeoncid created it.


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OfflineCrackatoa
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: ruawakeyet] * 1
    #27693070 - 03/12/22 08:21 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I'm looking for that one myself :begger:


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OfflineHongosamongus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: ruawakeyet]
    #27693071 - 03/12/22 08:22 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Thanks. Since I'm stuck with dealing with vendors for the time being, any idea of any commercial outlets that might have any spores?


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OfflineCrackatoa
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hongosamongus]
    #27693074 - 03/12/22 08:27 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

We have several sponsors that will hook you up until you can get on the marketplace here


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OfflineHongosamongus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Crackatoa]
    #27693089 - 03/12/22 08:49 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

All I can find are spore syringes. And I've had severe contamination problems with all of them. I don't  know why these people don't sell prints, or replenish them when their supply runs out. Even more so with Panaeolus - I really don't want to spend more money on bad syringes.

I've had much fewer problems with prints or cloning with samples from other genera that I've either done myself or received prints from other, responsible people. So, it's not all me...but I aim to keep trying.


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hongosamongus] * 1
    #27693096 - 03/12/22 08:54 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

There is a sponsor that sells prints of Nec D. Sorry I can't name them, that's a rule here.

I will say that this vendor has been my favorite for over 20 years, although the URL has changed.

Just keep looking, you'll find them.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: ruawakeyet]
    #27693113 - 03/12/22 09:16 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ruawakeyet said:
The panaeolus NecD is a cross between a panaeolus tropicalis and the panaeolus cyanescens, creating an entirely new species of mushroom. Jakeoncid created it.




:incredible:

Wait, what? :lol: Is this for real? :eek:


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #27693128 - 03/12/22 09:32 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

To the best of my knowledge, yes! This is according to a vendor's information on the site, but I trust the vendor.


Edited by ruawakeyet (03/12/22 10:54 PM)


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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] * 1
    #27693404 - 03/13/22 05:54 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:

ruawakeyet said:
The panaeolus NecD is a cross between a panaeolus tropicalis and the panaeolus cyanescens, creating an entirely new species of mushroom. Jakeoncid created it.




:incredible:

Wait, what? :lol: Is this for real? :eek:




Yeah man, what's wild is rattlesnake vemon is used in the crossing process!

Quote:

ruawakeyet said:
To the best of my knowledge, yes! This is according to a vendor's information on the site, but I trust the vendor.




iirc they get all their prints directly from JOC.


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OfflineHongosamongus
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: coversall]
    #27693882 - 03/13/22 02:42 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Sorry, IIRC? Not familiar with all these acronyms, sorry.


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OfflineCamera93
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hongosamongus] * 1
    #27693886 - 03/13/22 02:46 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

If I recall correctly


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hongosamongus]
    #27693889 - 03/13/22 02:46 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: coversall]
    #27693922 - 03/13/22 03:17 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Thats dope! Must be Roger Rabbit then. I remember he was experimenting with that back in the early 2000's IIRC :wink:


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Invisibleruawakeyet
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #27693932 - 03/13/22 03:25 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

:foreheadslap:


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ruawakeyet] * 2
    #27694437 - 03/13/22 11:03 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Yeah I think I read RR made PE6 by using snake venom. I don't really understand why it was necessary considering both spore donors were cubensis.

Quotes from JOC who created Nec D...

Quote:

Jakeoncid419 said:
Quote:

Phony Phone said:
How did Nec D's come to be? What are they, where are they from?>



It’s is a hybrid I created by crossing pan cyan var Jalisco with pan trop Australia.



Quote:

Jakeoncid419 said:
Yes both PHV & Nec D are inter-species hybrids.
Alan has done write ups on them and it’s posted on mushroom observer although I don’t have the link on me I’m sure one of these guys in here has it



Quote:

Jakeoncid419 said:
Here I found it Nec D: https://mushroomobserver.org/observer/show_observation/409576
Can’t find the phv one




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Invisiblebigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: TheDoobsker] * 2
    #27694442 - 03/13/22 11:10 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Man it would be incredible if someone inoculated natural areas with NecD so that it can become a 'naturally' occurring species in the wild. When I was a kid I always wanted to discover a new bird species. But to CREATE a new species of mushrooms puts you on an entirely different level of baller :lol:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl]
    #27694446 - 03/13/22 11:15 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Thats some mad scientist stuff right there! :incredible:


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 5
    #27694795 - 03/14/22 09:33 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

This one tray of Pan Bispo keeps pumping out very light colored fruits vs the muddy brown colored ones the other tray creates. Fruit output is very low, as it is on 80% of my bispo tubs, but I thought it was neat. Wouldn't call it leucistic, just interesting... I guess there were those other trays that produced the bullseye colored fruits where the caps were light in the middle and dark brown around the outer edge - this is just missing the edge ring.




vs what the most common coloration is:




vs the bullseye color variation:


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