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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hongosamongus]
    #27690400 - 03/10/22 11:17 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

All mushroom mycelium can grow on BRF but you need manure for the Panaeolous species.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus] * 1
    #27690404 - 03/10/22 11:19 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Sorry, I'm a fucking idiot and thought didn't see that it was a multi-page PDF. My apologies.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #27690408 - 03/10/22 11:20 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Again, this is a problem with being directed to old posts that are perhaps outdated. The OP specifically mentions this issue of using ground grass seed instead of BRF for "grass loving species", and as spores are very hard for me to get I don't want to fuck up any more than I do normally. Thanks for  your patience.


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Edited by Hongosamongus (03/10/22 11:22 PM)


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hongosamongus]
    #27690420 - 03/11/22 12:00 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Ok, sounds like rye seed. Its old terminology to say "grass seed". When was the OP posted?


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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hongosamongus] * 1
    #27690508 - 03/11/22 03:39 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Hongosamongus said:
I'm really sorry to ask these questions again, but haven't received answers yet...so at the risk of inviting abuse, here goes:

When making pancakes, I'm assuming that normal pasteurization of the media is warranted, correct? If so, how long and at what temp? I have to start using something other than my sterilizer, it runs way too hot.

I'm still confused about how to inoculate the "pancakes". I've been trying to do everything on agar, but it seems that people are just injecting spores directly into the cakes. How do I use the mycelia from agar to inoculate these? Sorry if this is a stupid question...

Edited to use pasteurize instead of "sterilize", which I know isn't that good for these sorts of growing media.




I grow pans exclusively on McMerdin's pancakes, check the 'from agar to tea' link in my sig. It runs through the whole process start to finish.

My normal cake mix is 1 part brf, 1 part seasoned horse poo, 1 part verm, 1 part water, 0.5 part chopped straw, and a pinch of gypsum. Make them like a normal PF cakes with a dry verm layer, and PC for 90-120 mins.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: coversall]
    #27690573 - 03/11/22 06:14 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

So, quick question regarding a casing layer, I’ve just found that the lime I have already is dolomite lime and contains 10-12% magnesium which I’ve read is a no no (2% max). Could I just use the peat moss I have with some Verm? I have a soil PH meter so could obviously test this myself but if anyone has experience that can save me fucking about it would be greatly appreciate. Pan Jambos are still colonising so got a few weeks.

If it’s of any relevance, I have some gypsum on hand which is calcium sulphate 55% SO3 28% Ca. Would this be of any use?

Edit: As the time draws nearer I’ve found that the peat moss I have (Had it for like a year, never touched it) typically has a PH of between 4.9-5.5 this would definitely need some lime in my opinion so I guess I’m gunna have to find some suitable lime to bring the PH up?


Edited by SwabMarley (03/11/22 06:22 AM)


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SwabMarley]
    #27690609 - 03/11/22 06:51 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Can't find where I sourced mine from. Think it was a local garden store.
I use Hi-Yield Horticultural hydrated lime. On the back it says 0.45% Mg
Gypsum more buffers then changes pH from my understanding.

Might be easier to find the jiffy starter


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
    #27690627 - 03/11/22 07:07 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Why is peat moss used instead of Coco coir?


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: rockyfungus]
    #27690646 - 03/11/22 07:33 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

rockyfungus said:
Can't find where I sourced mine from. Think it was a local garden store.
I use Hi-Yield Horticultural hydrated lime. On the back it says 0.45% Mg
Gypsum more buffers then changes pH from my understanding.

Might be easier to find the jiffy starter



I’m from the UK mate so from what I can find, jiffy isn’t easy to source over here. I’m using Azusa’s TEK as a base but I have found something on the ‘Zon though, what do you think about This


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Panny]
    #27690651 - 03/11/22 07:40 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Panny said:
Why is peat moss used instead of Coco coir?



Myc won't colonize peat moss like it will coir.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: moonwatcher] * 4
    #27690657 - 03/11/22 07:54 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I go to sleep for a night and so many good questions when I wake up.....

Quote:

Myc Hunt said:
So, quick question regarding a casing layer, I’ve just found that the lime I have already is dolomite lime and contains 10-12% magnesium which I’ve read is a no no (2% max). Could I just use the peat moss I have with some Verm? I have a soil PH meter so could obviously test this myself but if anyone has experience that can save me fucking about it would be greatly appreciate. Pan Jambos are still colonising so got a few weeks.

If it’s of any relevance, I have some gypsum on hand which is calcium sulphate 55% SO3 28% Ca. Would this be of any use?

Edit: As the time draws nearer I’ve found that the peat moss I have (Had it for like a year, never touched it) typically has a PH of between 4.9-5.5 this would definitely need some lime in my opinion so I guess I’m gunna have to find some suitable lime to bring the PH up?




Like Rocky, I use Hi-Yield brand hydrated lime (and it is the gold standard if you follow the TCs  here). You could use other brands so long as the chemical make-up is the same as hi-yield (that is, Calcium Hydroxide, NOT Calcium Oxide). It is fast acting but won't burn in the right amount. For casing, you want to use 0.88 TBS Hydrated Lime per quart of verm+peat. I have had the best results with this amount but am still experimenting. So far I have tried less - I've done 6g per gallon of distilled water, shake, then add to dry casing mix in order to hydrate. I have found PH testing is somewhat worthless because it doesn't work well. I have tried both meters and test strips. I don't really see much change unless adding massive amounts.

Quote:

Panny said:
Why is peat moss used instead of Coco coir?




Peat is considered to have zero nutritional value while coir is considered to have some.... coir doesn't have enough to feed mycelium but there is enough in it that the mycelium always colonize it, whereas mycelium won't colonize peat. Pasty did a test recently to prove whether coir has nutrition or if it just acts as a water reservoir and he proved that it only acts as a water reservoir. He injected some LC into hydrated coir. No grains. The mycelium struggled and never fully colonized nor fruited. But there must be something in coir that draws mycelium to colonize because any coir you use will end up colonized. The same is not true for peat, and because you want to keep your casing layer uncolonized, you use peat as the casing layer. It's also better than plain verm because it allows you to better judge hydration level.


Quote:

moonwatcher said:
Quote:

Hindsight said:
Thanks Crack. Ratio on this one was around 1:2 - 1:3. I've been mostly eyeballing it lately and I range anywhere from 1:2-1:4. For MS grows I go for around a 2" depth and for clone grows I go for around 3-3.5" depth. The only reason for doing less in MS grows is that I don't want to waste sub on a non-fruiting or poorly fruiting culture. Manure is expensive and difficult for me to get for now so that's why I hate wasting it. I have a wheelbarrow sized pile outside aging and if it ends up working well, I may go 3" on everything. 3" depth corresponds to a 1:4 ratio with 1qt of spawn.




Hindsight, what would you say is the prevalence of those 'non-fruiting or poorly fruiting' cultures percentage-wise?

After about 2 months I keep getting spindly fruits that don't open their caps and abort, despite trying all sorts of different conditions and subs/hydration levels/etc. I just streaked new plates to see if my culture might be to blame.




That is a fantastic question. It COULD be your conditions - especially if you are having caps that don't open, but if it is genetics, here goes...... I have not tracked it and it is probably quite subjective to how I'm feeling at any given moment. It varies by print, and varies by variety/species too. If we are talking about a tray that has a full, or nearly full canopy that I would be proud to post a photo of... something like this tray of Peace River I recently fruited:



I would say I get a tray like this:
Tampanensis: 70%
Pan Cyans: 30-60%, varying wildly based on specific variety. I've had some that were 0% and some that were 75% but if you add everything I've grown or tried to grow together and averaged it, I'd say it's like 30% or even less. NecD has been the most reliable for me personally.
Pan Bispos: 15-20%

Move over to cubes/nats and it's more like 75-90%

These numbers are from MS grows where the prints are new to me.

I get trays like this plenty of times, as well as trays that never fruit, or just produce one or several measly fruits:


And sometimes I get mediocre flushes like this:



I'm of the belief that it is a numbers game. You just have to try to fruit as many cultures as possible. There are several ways of doing that as I outlined previously, but to summarize:
1. Use a spore syringe directly on a cake. No agar. No grains. Requires your syringe be exceedingly clean (if tested on agar, you see no contams). Gets you the largest amount of genetic diversity.

2. Use agar, take a lot of transfers off the germination plate onto unique plates and don't do any further transferring prior to going to grain, except if you MUST to clean it up. Don't look for even/consistent growth in the T1. You'll probably have a lot of genetics in each T1 and it will grow lopsided with many different sectors. This is what you want. Makes it harder to ensure there's nothing bad growing on it but at the very least, you'll be able to see if there's any bacteria on it.

3. Same as #2 only put ~4x or so transfers from the germination plate per 1x T1 plate. So if you take 12 transfers from the germ plate, you'll have 3x T1 plates, each with 4 transfers on them. Same rules as #2 - goal is to go to grain right from that plate. This reduces the number of plates, grain jars, and separate tubs you'll have to fruit. It looks like this:



I've done #2 and #3 a lot. I've never done #1 exactly as I outlined it above... in the past when I have used a cake, I've let the spores germinate then taken a tiny piece of it to knock up some agar plates, or I have shredded the BRF cake and put it to bulk sub. But I am going to start using #1 exactly as-written now that I have a good library of clean spore prints I have taken myself off my own grows.


Edited by Hindsight (03/11/22 08:14 AM)


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hindsight] * 3
    #27690668 - 03/11/22 08:08 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Hindsight in the house!! Incredibly informative as per usual! I’ll have to digest this info tomorrow though as too many home brews have been ingested! While I’m here though, give this man a fuckin TC tag already. More than deserves it in my eyes :hereyougo:


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: SwabMarley] * 1
    #27690678 - 03/11/22 08:15 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Oh wow. Thanks for the extremely detailed reply Hindsight!


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: moonwatcher]
    #27690701 - 03/11/22 08:33 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Silly questions, I should know...
I just put cased trays in my FC. Starting to get myc poking through, anyone patch?
Also I forget when I typically remove my tray lids, probably as pins form.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: rockyfungus] * 1
    #27690801 - 03/11/22 10:07 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Rocky I've been playing around with patching vs just leaving alone. I haven't seen any big difference yet when it comes to final outcome. As expected, if I don't patch an area of thick mycelium coming through, that area tends to fruit first. The theory is that if you patch it, it would allow a more even canopy but I feel like I've patched areas and still had uneven canopies so.....


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: rockyfungus]
    #27690827 - 03/11/22 10:19 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Is Panaeolus tropicalis considered a valid species? Posted yesterday asking questions about it's cultivation and got links to Psilocybe tropicalis, obviously not the same species.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #27690833 - 03/11/22 10:23 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this, because what is usually called for is "rye grass seed", which is a type of turf grass, not Rye, the grain used in grain jars the world over, bread, etc.

Nobody seems to use ground rye grass seed, of which I have 40 lbs because this is what I was told would help with sclerotia forming species of Psilocybe - also, I think outdated info because it doesn't seem to matter and the grass seed seems to hold little water.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Hongosamongus] * 2
    #27690841 - 03/11/22 10:27 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

We call rye grass seed "RGS" around here. Stores will refer to it as "annual rye grass seed." Not rye berries, which we use for grain spawn, and which we call simply "Rye". RGS works fine for grain spawn. Some people love it - Violet being one example. It works fine but it's messy, ugly, clumpy and wet. I have used it with success but it doesn't shake well and I have had better results with other grains so I don't use it anymore. Do a search for RGS tek and you'll find all sorts of info. Sclerotia would form in RGS just fine, just as it would on rye berries. You'll find better sclerotia tips over in the sclerotia thread.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread Questions Questions.. [Re: Hongosamongus] * 1
    #27690889 - 03/11/22 10:59 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Hongosamongus said:
Is Panaeolus tropicalis considered a valid species? Posted yesterday asking questions about it's cultivation and got links to Psilocybe tropicalis, obviously not the same species.





Yes, Pan Trop is a valid species, and this is the right thread for it. For the most part, all active pan species can be grown the same ways, on the same substrates, etc. Nothing is set in stone, and there are a few main methods and materials used. Just keep reading this thread, as much of it as you can. Also read everything you can from JakeOnCid, Asura, JCM, and others, and you'll have a great understanding of what might work best for you.

There is a species named Psilocybe Cyanescens, it's a wood lover. Panaeolus Cyanescens is the type of mushroom this thread is all about. Don't get mistaken by what the P. stands for when a print is labeled as such. This is a habit that should stop in IMO. "P." should only be used for Psilocybe species, "Pan" should be used for Panaeolus species IMO. (I'm not saying that you are mistaking the two, as Huasteca and BVI are both Pan varieties.)

Yesterday you said you had a print of P. Subtropicalis, and that is why you were provided a link to a thread for that specific species.


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SwabMarley]
    #27690926 - 03/11/22 11:27 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Myc Hunt said:
So, quick question regarding a casing layer, I’ve just found that the lime I have already is dolomite lime and contains 10-12% magnesium which I’ve read is a no no (2% max). Could I just use the peat moss I have with some Verm? I have a soil PH meter so could obviously test this myself but if anyone has experience that can save me fucking about it would be greatly appreciate. Pan Jambos are still colonising so got a few weeks.

If it’s of any relevance, I have some gypsum on hand which is calcium sulphate 55% SO3 28% Ca. Would this be of any use?

Edit: As the time draws nearer I’ve found that the peat moss I have (Had it for like a year, never touched it) typically has a PH of between 4.9-5.5 this would definitely need some lime in my opinion so I guess I’m gunna have to find some suitable lime to bring the PH up?




I've been casing with an unscientific mix of 1 part peat moss, 1 part verm, 1 part boiling water, and a pinch of gypsum. I mix it all up in a sealed tub, shake it, wrap it in bubble wrap and cool it over night. Never measured the pH. My gypsum pinches vary for casing to casing, because I'm literally just sticking my hand in the bag.


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..:: New? Start here. ::..
..:: How I Panaeolus. From Agar to Tea ::..


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