tHEfLY said:

I didn't read the whole thread, but I think you are right, in a way. The current mythology since the "enlightenment" has been the negation of all mythology through the promotion of materialism and positivism.

First, mythic structures are vital in terms of social cohesion. They are the very foundation of how we think and act towards each other in a group. In an ideal situation I think the stories that a society uses to understand itself would be an organic devolpment based on the history and shared experiences of that society, unfortunately modern people have for whatever reason come to consider ourselves to be too smart for these myths which have made sense of the world previously - myths are now synonymous with lies and we neglected to replace them with anything substantial. This is a problem because it destroys the unifying foundation or metastructure on which all our understanding is based. Words have no meaning in this situation.

I don't believe Hell, for example, was invented to scare anyone. I don't believe hell is an invention at all, it is real, and people have very good reason to be afraid of it. The problem is that terms like "Satan" and "Hell" are useless without a shared understanding of what those terms mean, if everyone is free to define them however they like then the bonds between language and reality are broken. There is no such thing as Beauty, or Good, or Truth, according to the scientific worldview where only concrete objects are considered real, and there's no way to prove them wrong using their own methodology, so it's great for people who want to fill the vacuum by twisting words and inventing their own versions of reality. Not so great for people trying to genuinely understand or communicate.

It's hard to tell how deliberate our current understanding of the world is, but I certainly think some people take advantage of it. Capitalists for example rely on people believing that there is nothing beyond objects and communists are the same in believing that everything is ruled by economics. The individualism and lack of understanding between people is also obviously a benefit to any ruling class that needs to keep people isolated. I see it all the time on this forum and others, people find it very hard to communicate in any meaningful way because words are all being interpreted according to some private mythology that nobody else understands, since the common foundational myth is gone.

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tHEfLY said:

I didn't read the whole thread, but I think you are right, in a way. The current mythology since the "enlightenment" has been the negation of all mythology through the promotion of materialism and positivism.

First, mythic structures are vital in terms of social cohesion. They are the very foundation of how we think and act towards each other in a group. In an ideal situation I think the stories that a society uses to understand itself would be an organic devolpment based on the history and shared experiences of that society, unfortunately modern people have for whatever reason come to consider ourselves to be too smart for these myths which have made sense of the world previously - myths are now synonymous with lies and we neglected to replace them with anything substantial. This is a problem because it destroys the unifying foundation or metastructure on which all our understanding is based. Words have no meaning in this situation.

I don't believe Hell, for example, was invented to scare anyone. I don't believe hell is an invention at all, it is real, and people have very good reason to be afraid of it. The problem is that terms like "Satan" and "Hell" are useless without a shared understanding of what those terms mean, if everyone is free to define them however they like then the bonds between language and reality are broken. There is no such thing as Beauty, or Good, or Truth, according to the scientific worldview where only concrete objects are considered real, and there's no way to prove them wrong using their own methodology, so it's great for people who want to fill the vacuum by twisting words and inventing their own versions of reality. Not so great for people trying to genuinely understand or communicate.

It's hard to tell how deliberate our current understanding of the world is, but I certainly think some people take advantage of it. Capitalists for example rely on people believing that there is nothing beyond objects and communists are the same in believing that everything is ruled by economics. The individualism and lack of understanding between people is also obviously a benefit to any ruling class that needs to keep people isolated. I see it all the time on this forum and others, people find it very hard to communicate in any meaningful way because words are all being interpreted according to some private mythology that nobody else understands, since the common foundational myth is gone.

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I didn't read the whole thread, but I think you are right, in a way. The current mythology since the "enlightenment" has been the negation of all mythology through the promotion of materialism and positivism.

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First, mythic structures are vital in terms of social cohesion. They are the very foundation of how we think and act towards each other in a group. In an ideal situation I think the stories that a society uses to understand itself would be an organic devolpment based on the history and shared experiences of that society, unfortunately modern people have for whatever reason come to consider ourselves to be too smart for these myths which have made sense of the world previously - myths are now synonymous with lies and we neglected to replace them with anything substantial. This is a problem because it destroys the unifying foundation or metastructure on which all our understanding is based. Words have no meaning in this situation.

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I don't believe Hell, for example, was invented to scare anyone. I don't believe hell is an invention at all, it is real, and people have very good reason to be afraid of it. The problem is that terms like "Satan" and "Hell" are useless without a shared understanding of what those terms mean, if everyone is free to define them however they like then the bonds between language and reality are broken. There is no such thing as Beauty, or Good, or Truth, according to the scientific worldview where only concrete objects are considered real, and there's no way to prove them wrong using their own methodology, so it's great for people who want to fill the vacuum by twisting words and inventing their own versions of reality. Not so great for people trying to genuinely understand or communicate.

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It's hard to tell how deliberate our current understanding of the world is, but I certainly think some people take advantage of it. Capitalists for example rely on people believing that there is nothing beyond objects and communists are the same in believing that everything is ruled by economics. The individualism and lack of understanding between people is also obviously a benefit to any ruling class that needs to keep people isolated. I see it all the time on this forum and others, people find it very hard to communicate in any meaningful way because words are all being interpreted according to some private mythology that nobody else understands, since the common foundational myth is gone.

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I see a difference from the natural organic myth-making you mean and what I see as toxic myths which are set down to divide and control us, thus creating toxic relations all the way down the line, between us and others, including other species, with the natural world, and even with our own selves, including bodies. This kind of cancerous myth actually manifests as dis-ease for us and our surroundings.

Also, as I see there is this going on:

The majority of people 'educated' are,like you say, led to believe mythology is dead, BUT the ones with all our wealth and the Earth's wealth who oppress us DO have myths! They have extremely toxic myths, (examples: Hermeticism; Tarot Cards; Saturnalia;Kabbalah; Luciferianism) but because we have been trained to think myth is bunk they can use their mythic numbers, symbols, etc in plain sight, but many are blind to see it, and will ridicule others for wanting to reveal it and discuss it.

I have even met with this taboo even in the psychedelic movement. It is very odd. Tt is usually a silence. I get the feeling that people talking about it may feel crazy, and/or don't wanna seem crazy! And so choose not to even say anything to do with this subject.

So what does that mean if true? it means that because we have been made un~conscious of our mythological dimensions, others can manipulate us even more easy by imposing THEIR toxic mythos on us, their stories. That is what this thread is about really.

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What do you see as 'the common foundational myth'?

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So are you a Christian who believes in everlasting Hell? And 'Satan'?

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KauaiOrca said:

The bottom line is YES there are powerful predatory humans on this planet that organize in countless ways to exploit the labor, fears and vulnerabilities of less motivated and empowered people.  And this has been going on for thousands of years.

Money, reputation, connections, family roots, education, access, media control are all advantages to generate even more leverage over weaker groups.

Is there one illuminati like group that controls the planet?  Very, very unlikely because of the competitive nature of the Alpha Males that compete at the highest levels.  To maintain a hierarchy of control from generation to generation ... keep the secrets ... keep all the levels of "members" in line is ridiculously unrealistic. 

Power groups form, grow, shrink, dissolve, re-form etc. 

Unless, somewhere in our past some small breakaway group of humans discovered some kind of technology to control incarnation or time travel, shape-shifting something like that, then I find it very hard to believe that a single group has held together for centuries.

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illuminati (n.) Look up illuminati at Dictionary.com
    1590s, plural of Latin illuminatus "enlightened" (in figurative sense), past participle of illuminare "light up, make light, illuminate" (see illumination). Originally a name applied to a 16c. Spanish sect (the Alumbrados), then to other sects on the continent; since 1797 used as a translation of German Illuminaten, name of a secret society founded 1776 in Ingolstadt, Bavaria, (repressed there 1785) and holding deistic and republican principles; hence used generally of free-thinkers and sarcastically of those professing intellectual enlightenment (1816). Related: Illuminatism; illuminatist.

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Lucifer Look up Lucifer at Dictionary.com
    Old English Lucifer "Satan," also "morning star, Venus in the morning sky before sunrise," also an epithet or name of Diana, from Latin Lucifer "morning star," noun use of adjective, literally "light-bringing," from lux (genitive lucis) "light" (see light (n.)) + ferre "to carry, bear" (see phoresy). Venus in the evening sky was Hesperus.

    Belief that it was the proper name of Satan began with its use in Bible to translate Greek Phosphoros, which translates Hebrew Helel ben Shahar in Isaiah xiv.12 -- "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" [KJV] Because of the mention of a fall from Heaven, the verse was interpreted spiritually by Christians as a reference to Satan, even though it is literally a reference to the King of Babylon (see Isaiah xiv.4). Sometimes rendered daystar in later translations.

    As "friction match," 1831, short for Lucifer match (1831). Among the 16c. adjectival forms were Luciferian, Luciferine, Luciferous. There was a noted Bishop Lucifer of Cagliari in Sardinia in the 4th century, a strict anti-Arian regarded locally as a saint.

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"I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies like 9 - 11"

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clock_of_omens said:

This isn't P S or P. At this point you've devolved this into a conspiracy thread.

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clock_of_omens said:

This isn't P S or P. At this point you've devolved this into a conspiracy thread.

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which is YOUR story which I do not agree with. But which YOu keep coming back to trolling, like a bad penny...soooo you've devolved into my ignore box

WHY it is important to see through the accusation: 'what your saying is conspiracy theory, and is thus crazy and not befitting rational discourse':

We need energy to experience reality. Think of a psychedelic trip when you feel like you have SO much energy. Or if you go to a beautiful place, on holiday/vacation. Or of your are doing something which REALLY inter~rests you, you HAVE the energy. Watching porn for example.... lol

Well the same applies to asking questions about the reality we are in. What story are you being made to believe, to live? Most of the stories are set to literally EAT our energy. Think of the 'story' in the industrial revolution' where people were herded into factories, and used like parts of a machine to make a relatively small group of men, and women very rich. But on top of that were the stories you were a sinner (Christian story), and not worthy, and you must obey your master, and even though your life is sht there would be even WORSE waiting for you, in fact everlasting HELL if you turned your face away from 'God', and/or disobeyed your masters/oppressors. So both outwardly and inwardly your energy is being used by the predatory toxic storytellers.

So I am saying that to regain, and/or become aware of energy. which is life, is to look freely without ANY restrictions. This surely is a much deeper meaning of philosophy which literally means the love of wisdom:

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philosophy (n.) Look up philosophy at Dictionary.com
    c. 1300, "knowledge, body of knowledge," from Old French filosofie "philosophy, knowledge" (12c., Modern French philosophie) and directly from Latin philosophia and from Greek philosophia "love of knowledge, pursuit of wisdom; systematic investigation," from philo- "loving" (see philo-) + sophia "knowledge, wisdom," from sophis "wise, learned;" of unknown origin.

        Nec quicquam aliud est philosophia, si interpretari velis, praeter studium sapientiae; sapientia autem est rerum divinarum et humanarum causarumque quibus eae res continentur scientia. [Cicero, "De Officiis"]
        [Philosophical problems] are, of course, not empirical problems; but they are solved through an insight into the workings of our language, and that in such a way that these workings are recognized -- despite an urge to misunderstand them. The problems are solved, not through the contribution of new knowledge, rather through the arrangement of things long familiar. Philosophy is a struggle against the bewitchment (Verhexung) of our understanding by the resources of our language. [Ludwig Wittgenstein, "Philosophical Investigations," 1953]

    Meaning "system a person forms for conduct of life" is attested from 1771.

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WISDOM: wisdom (n.) Look up wisdom at Dictionary.com
    Old English wisdom "knowledge, learning, experience," from wis (see wise (adj.)) + -dom. A common Germanic compound (Old Saxon, Old Frisian wisdom, Old Norse visdomr, Old High German wistuom "wisdom," German Weistum "judicial sentence serving as a precedent").

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This exploration of wisdom must have has no walls built within, or about its terrain, because the terrain is boundless, obviously. Any demand therefore to censor inquiry and exploration into the wisdom of understanding reality is limiting wisdom, and is also censorship.

of course there can be serious questioning. But if you present evidence this should be looked at without any demanding that it is not 'real'. it is better to say one doesn't know rather than claim one does.
Take looking at '9/11' which I am claiming is a major toxic story, and I include that the number 11 is important to people in the occult, and how the Twin Towers LOOk like the number 11. Whether you believe the connection is occultist or not the evidence CAN be seen, because the buildings do resemble an 11. Two pillars:

zzripz said:

Any demand therefore to censor inquiry and exploration into the wisdom of understanding reality is limiting wisdom, and is also censorship.

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A Noble Lie~~

Refers to the propping up of a myth in order to "maintain social harmony" and keep the elite in their present position.

Plato's Republic

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noble (adj.) Look up noble at Dictionary.com
    c. 1200, "illustrious, distinguished; worthy of honor or respect," from Old French noble "of noble bearing or birth," from Latin nobilis "well-known, famous, renowned; excellent, superior, splendid; high-born, of superior birth," earlier *gnobilis, literally "knowable," from gnoscere "to come to know," from PIE root *gno- "to know" (see know). The prominent Roman families, which were "well known," provided most of the Republic's public officials.

    Meaning "distinguished by rank, title, or birth" is first recorded late 13c. Sense of "having lofty character, having high moral qualities" is from c. 1600. A noble gas (1902) is so called for its inactivity or intertness; a use of the word that had been applied in Middle English to precious stones, metals, etc., of similar quality (late 14c.), from the sense of "having admirable properties" (c. 1300).
noble (n.) Look up noble at Dictionary.com
    "man of rank," c. 1300, from noble (adj.). The same noun sense also is in Old French and Latin. Late 14c. as the name of an English coin first issued in reign of Edward III.

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President W Bush: "...it's the third time I've said that. I'll probably say it three more times, see, in my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over again for the 'truth' to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda." [my emphasis] Audience applauds??

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