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Offlinezzripz
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Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? * 1
    #23983158 - 01/05/17 06:01 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

We are natural story tellers.

Are you aware how when you eg daydream your mind is naturally creating stories. These can be swift drama full stories/dramas, often in the sace of less than a minute. And of course there is dreaming when we sleep where 'you' pain the whole scene and are all the characters and events.

This morning I woke up, and not wanting to get up straight away, I rolled over for a snuggly more 10 mins, and when I did I kinda half awake dreamed that I was seeing a little brother being swept away in this raging river whereupon I dived in, and was praying to all the spirit of nature to help me save him. I got to him and managed to get us over to the bank of the river and grabbed a root, and interspersed with this dramatic scene was me cuddling my little brother when he was really small, and it was all really moving. Then back to the drama, I push him up and I follow both soaking wet and freezing, and next thing is to get help, and then I got up outta bed.

Now a while ago I heard that we have this natural brain/mind propensity to find pleasure in eating fruits. IE on an MRI scan areas of the brain will light up if say we eat an apple, grapes. And that this propensity is a good thing for health, and other species share it.

HOWEVER, this natural attraction to natural sweet fruits etc has been exploited by Big Food which will push saturated sugar products, and add food to the most unsuspecting food and drink stuffs, and also exploit the natural attraction for sweets by using chemicals. This has caused in a big part to the epidemic of obesity.

So there is an example of an exploitation of a natural physilogical need isn't it, and spiritual.

So isn't this the same for the exploitation of our natural storytelling/listening potential?

That knowing that we naturally are story tellers and listyeners secret groups have created stories set to control us via their narrative? isn't this what religious and political propaganda is. Demanding there really is characters like 'Satan/Devil' and 'The Terrorist'/Bogeyman?

Thoughts on this?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23983163 - 01/05/17 06:09 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

good slumber work!


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23985315 - 01/05/17 09:57 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Yes, I think this is correct.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23986001 - 01/06/17 08:37 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

pathetic response and lack of to this inquiry IMO

I cannot force interest, but am just freely offering my critique of lack on interest in a VERY interesting question!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23986200 - 01/06/17 10:28 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

you're welcome!


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InvisiblePsychonott
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23986213 - 01/06/17 10:34 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Of course they do look at the fabric of our society! Lies now encompass mores people's reality than factual truths do


The media has become so consolidated that they have all gotten on board and fed us a fake version of reality to manage us easier

Here a story that can draw similarities by a reality where  slavery was never abolished just reworked and relabeled


“If you wish to keep slaves, you must have all kinds of guards. The cheapest way to have guards is to have the slaves pay taxes to finance their own guards. To fool the slaves, you tell them that they are not slaves and that they have Freedom. You tell them they need Law and Order to protect them against bad slaves. Then you tell them to elect a Government. Give them Freedom to vote and they will vote for their own guards and pay their salary. They will then believe they are Free persons. Then give them money to earn, count and spend and they will be too busy to notice the slavery they are in.”


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Enlils true purpose is to get us off topic and to cast enough logical doubts so that outsiders viewing this would be more likely to side with his fake opinions rather than our or sometimes controlled opppsotions opinions.


You see if you are too skilled at not falling for their traps and stating logically sound debunks then other accounts who purposefully agree with 90% of the truth join in and get the entire topic off the main points.

It's their 1960s version of damage control and diversion but man it's painfully obvious in 2017


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Psychonott]
    #23988563 - 01/07/17 05:09 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Yes that is a great quote. A big part of TOXIC stories (stories deliberately set out to control people for a ruling elite) is to do exactly that, make the believer so fearful/shuddering that they will do anything to -they think-save themselves at the expensce of others. That is why the story of the 'Devil' and 'Hell' worked so well to control people. I mean who wants to go to Hell for everlasting fiery torture and punishment...? I REALLY admire the people of eg the Middle Ages who rebelled against all this evil crap. They had great courage because the toxic story was all-pervasive.


Edited by zzripz (01/07/17 05:09 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23989773 - 01/07/17 03:00 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Now that part dream I had, as I described above, where I saw my 'brother' being swept away in a river and I jumped in to save him. I was immersed in that drama.

Likewise the toxic story-tellers want us immersed in their stories. And this immersion can go very deep.

Recently saw the title of a video 'He went into Hell and talked to the Devil', all about someone who had an NDE. We have also heard people who have 'come back' from these experiences and claim there is a real Hell, and the Devil and God are real, and they become vicars etc.
I have heard atheists claim they are now Christians because they experienced dramas that have been written of in the Bible.

So looking at this critically, it would seem that these stories can even influence these deeper states when heart has stopped etc. But people take the experiences literally so no amount of trying to question them would be accepted, because they have become even more entrenched!


Edited by zzripz (01/07/17 03:02 PM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23991640 - 01/08/17 05:20 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

It must have been horrendous to have been brought up to believe the STORY that this life offers you only one chance of redemption, and if you sin against 'God' you will burn in Hell everlastingly tormented by the Devil and his demons! And artists were commissioned by the Church to create paintings depicting Hell and the Devil torturing 'sinners', reinforcing these images into the psyche~~~



Edited by zzripz (01/08/17 05:21 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23991736 - 01/08/17 07:41 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

chicken and egg:
this complex issue has more than one interpretation:
when intoxicated on mushrooms, or some other brain state modification (including dreaming/meditation/yoga/prayer etc.), a person may have a vision - a highly detailed tableau in which figures writhe and cavort fiendishly - temptingly - exquisitely - horribly.

mind can produce such experiences/visions without direct prompting from any dominating figure(s) or forces.

Moreover, paintings like the temptation of saint anthony, or buddha facing mara, provide a portrayal of the human mind struggling to be consistent in the face of extreme distraction.

I think you are off base with these examples, although manipulation is and has been afoot in many areas to greater and lesser degrees. To achieve the level of manipulation you describe a KGB would have had to exist that was 100 times as powerful than it is today.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23992087 - 01/08/17 10:45 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

I already said that we are natural storytellers, and this would also mean we naturally have natural imageination where all that you relate has the potential to be experiences.

But then I am arguing that because of this, there are groups that know this and exploit/manipulate this natural state towards their own ends. IE to maintain an authoritarian hold over the one that now becomes immersed in their story and/or interpretation of a story. Hence the indoctrination of the 'Devil' and 'Hell'.

Quote:

Moreover, paintings like the temptation of saint anthony, or buddha facing mara, provide a portrayal of the human mind struggling to be consistent in the face of extreme distraction.









And what I am asking is , but isn't that too a story that one is immersed in by authoritarian indoctrination? The idea that you must resist 'temptation' and sit in 'contemplation' or else 'Hell' for ever and ever, or 'Karma' for many lifetimes.

Quote:

I think you are off base with these examples, although manipulation is and has been afoot in many areas to greater and lesser degrees. To achieve the level of manipulation you describe a KGB would have had to exist that was 100 times as powerful than it is today.




Well a central point is that a KGB is not needed, to force social control, because if you can control a person's story, immersing them in it, you control them, because the victim fundamentally believes it through and through and will not question it.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23992126 - 01/08/17 11:01 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

left to one's own devices, we are all our own worst KGB's, and have to be our own St. Anthony too.

transforming everything into conspiracies is just more MARA


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23992866 - 01/08/17 04:00 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
left to one's own devices, we are all our own worst KGB's, and have to be our own St. Anthony too.

transforming everything into conspiracies is just more MARA




Which is the story I see you immersed in. IE the one who will judge any talk of predatory elites socially engineering via myths/stories 'conspiracy theories'.

I mean what does 'left to one's own devices' even mean?

Your claiming that the person not a victim of the constant propaganda, religious, mass marketing, political, and occult will also be their own worst KGB and St Anthony?

If you do, sorry but that makes no sense to me. How do you know that?

And you put 'MARA' in caps? let me ask you redgreenvines: Does your story include belief in Buddhism?

If not please explain that sentence? What do you mean? I am really interested.

Here's a wiki definition of the word MARA:

Quote:

Mara (Sanskrit: māra; Chinese: 天魔; pinyin: Tiānmó; Tibetan Wylie: bdud; Khmer: មារ; Burmese: မာရ်နတ်; Thai: มาร; Sinhalese: මාරයා), in Buddhism, is the demon that tempted Gautama Buddha by trying to seduce him with the vision of beautiful women who, in various legends, are often said to be Mara's daughters.[1] In Buddhist cosmology, Mara is associated with death, rebirth, and desire.[2] Nyanaponika Thera has described Mara as "the personification of the forces antagonistic to enlightenment."[3]

Etymology
The word "Māra" comes from the Proto-Indo-European root *mer meaning to die.[4] The Sanskrit form of the verbal root is √mṛ. It takes a present indicative form mṛyate and a causative form mārayati (with strengthening of the root vowel from ṛ to ār). Māra is a verbal noun from the causative root and means 'causing death' or 'killing'.[4] It is related to other words for death from the same root, such as: maraṇa and mṛtyu. The latter is a name for death personified and is sometimes identified with Yama. ff




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23993013 - 01/08/17 04:47 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

my assumption is that mind can be easily distracted by it's own fabrications (MARA) and that this is fundamental but not fundamentally embarrassing, since both the exalted Buddha and revered St. Anthony are depicted in various cultural lore as enduring their own fabrications.

this I write about completely separately from the overriding issue that we are not in a classless society, never have been, and are not likely to see an end of it even in star trek.

All the same, those that profit from the dust of our bones do not have sufficient attention span to be so involved in controlling our thoughts (they don't even control their own thoughts in general).

Our thoughts are largely not in our own control but are herded to the extent that we do not herd our own selves (i.e. a jumble of thoughts are loosely corralled through the day from morning to night through every step of the day).

so sure, someone is profiting more than us, more than you, but this is not proof of an invasion of lizard people.  I'm am just pointing out that working through mental junk is not trivial and blaming one class (or race) or another for your own muddled thoughts is not fair.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23994616 - 01/09/17 08:39 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

I do see many assumptions there.

Why should my critical ideas about issues I choose to examine be 'fabrications'? According to whose judgement? How do you know your judgement is not fabrication?
Quote:


fabricate (v.) Look up fabricate at Dictionary.com
    mid-15c., "to fashion, make, build," from Latin fabricatus, past participle of fabricare "to make, construct, fashion, build," from fabrica (see fabric). In bad sense of "tell a lie (etc.)," it is recorded by 1779. Related: Fabricated; fabricating.




Hmmmm

My approach is to question the 'Buddha'. there is no evidence he actually existed, as there aint for 'Jesus of Nazareth' or 'the prophet Muhammad', These are the myths/stories I am talking about. So it is interesting you use that term 'Mara' to warn against questioning stories, like the one presently, the 'war on terror'. if anything was fabrication it was the propaganda of this myth.

You worry that looking into all this can 'distract' the mind. From what? What are you afraid being distracted from?

Quote:

All the same, those that profit from the dust of our bones do not have sufficient attention span to be so involved in controlling our thoughts (they don't even control their own thoughts in general).




But, if I might say, that is an ignore-ant conclusion. In that you are ignoreing the available information which contradicts that conclusion. For example in the words of the so-called Master of Propaganda Edward Bernays:

Quote:

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda




he is spelling it out for you, but of course there is even more deep control going on also. This is what I mean about them wanting you immersed in their story for you 'own good' and the 'good of democracy' which in the Middle Eastern context is being delivered with falling bombs etc etc etc! 'Spreading democracy'.

Quote:

Our thoughts are largely not in our own control but are herded to the extent that we do not herd our own selves (i.e. a jumble of thoughts are loosely corralled through the day from morning to night through every step of the day).

so sure, someone is profiting more than us, more than you, but this is not proof of an invasion of lizard people.  I'm am just pointing out that working through mental junk is not trivial and blaming one class (or race) or another for your own muddled thoughts is not fair.




Our thoughts are not in our control obviously if there are hidden hands manipulating them. That is the point.

I also no buy the 'lizard people' theories of David Icke. He is pushing a toxic story also, and I try and expose it whenever I can.

You seem to dis-trust thinking?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #23994622 - 01/09/17 08:44 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

zzripz

just a little study of anthropology would show that in all times and places humans have come up with crazy ideas, cultures, and religions -- there is no need to postulate one particularly evil master mind force behind the curtain pulling our strings. Folks come up with absurd superstitions more often than they engage in rational thought.

Historically the rise of the consumer society, the invention of credit (aka credit cards and massive personal debt), mass production, television, and giving corporations the rights of individuals, advertising, & the invention of the franchise, are all forces that have combined to erode society and human values. A youtube search for Edward Bernays is one good place to begin research. His books are also available free as pdfs online. He is about as close to an evil genius as one is likely to find, as regards this story, I think. Of course Henry Ford and Thomas Edison were no saints either, but Bernays seems to have been pivotal, especially as regards using unconscious influence.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23995456 - 01/09/17 02:51 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

We may be natural story tellers, but we aren't naturally good story tellers. It takes skill to tell a good story with any artistic merit. Your dream story with your brother, e.g., is trite.

Other than that, what is your point? We experience life in a narrative fashion. We speak of life events as narratives. Of course people are going to use false narratives to mislead. This isn't really new information.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23995625 - 01/09/17 04:02 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
We may be natural story tellers, but we aren't naturally good story tellers. It takes skill to tell a good story with any artistic merit. Your dream story with your brother, e.g., is trite.

Other than that, what is your point? We experience life in a narrative fashion. We speak of life events as narratives. Of course people are going to use false narratives to mislead. This isn't really new information.




Before I respond to other stuff. Exactly what have YOU presented here, on these boards, that is spanking new, never been touched before. let me see? Does any subject exist that is even like that?

If you have no interest and think this all old hat why are you here?


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23995768 - 01/09/17 04:52 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Lol way to jump to ridiculous conclusions. Granting for arguments sake that there are no subjects that haven't been touched, the idea is to have novel insights and approaches. What does your claim that humans are natural storytellers reveal about propaganda and other misleading narratives that is novel? What are we supposed to discuss in this topic? Obviously people use false narratives to deceive, and obviously groups of people do as well. I highly doubt there is some top secret group out there pulling the strings of society as a whole with false narratives. It's just many different people and groups of people doing such for their own gains.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23996217 - 01/09/17 06:49 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

OK wise guy. So enlighten me? YOU show me your 'novel insights and approaches'. practice what you preach. Otherwise why are you even in my inquiry?

I await your presentation :eek:


Edited by zzripz (01/09/17 06:50 PM)


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23996225 - 01/09/17 06:54 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

I didn't start the thread bruh.

My insight is that most people suck at storytelling and in no way does the basic ability to string together a coherent narrative imply a 'natural storytelling genius'. PC canards about everyone being creative be damned.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23997262 - 01/10/17 03:35 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
I didn't start the thread bruh.

My insight is that most people suck at storytelling and in no way does the basic ability to string together a coherent narrative imply a 'natural storytelling genius'. PC canards about everyone being creative be damned.




I am not going to allow you to disrupt my thread, because of your provovative trolling attitude. If you are so wise go and start your own thread no doubt fully to the brim with novel insights bla bla. If I try and take you on it goes away from what I am trying to explore here.
You completely misunderstand what I am actually saying, so there is no point trying to explain, especially with such an entrenched critical attitude such as yours.

If you persist with unfruitful responses, you'll be ignored.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23997269 - 01/10/17 03:43 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
zzripz

just a little study of anthropology would show that in all times and places humans have come up with crazy ideas, cultures, and religions -- there is no need to postulate one particularly evil master mind force behind the curtain pulling our strings. Folks come up with absurd superstitions more often than they engage in rational thought.

Historically the rise of the consumer society, the invention of credit (aka credit cards and massive personal debt), mass production, television, and giving corporations the rights of individuals, advertising, & the invention of the franchise, are all forces that have combined to erode society and human values. A youtube search for Edward Bernays is one good place to begin research. His books are also available free as pdfs online. He is about as close to an evil genius as one is likely to find, as regards this story, I think. Of course Henry Ford and Thomas Edison were no saints either, but Bernays seems to have been pivotal, especially as regards using unconscious influence.




Did you even read the post of mine above where I quoted Edward Bernays? IE I am on all that!

because if you had then surely there would be seen a contradiction in what you are assuming here:

Quote:

there is no need to postulate one particularly evil master mind force behind the curtain pulling our strings.




As I said, Bernays had confessed to that being the case, in his book called Propaganda! :rolleyes: (please go and read the quote)

And look, I am not am not even saying that all kinds of diverse and weird stories haven't been creatively imagined worldwide in all places. BUT am saying that we are natural story tellers, even individually, having creative imagination, and that this natural ability has been expropriated by control freak authoritarians who look to find ways to manipulate us by this means.

I had compared this expropriation with how, merchants, and Big Food, had found a way to manipulate our natural love for fruit and natural sugars, and they did this by substituting their more harmful sugars, and when they got to see brain technology, and how parts of brain lights up when eating sugar they could further fine tune their manipulation so that now many people we see about are overweight, because they are addicted to sugar, etc.

I think it is VERY important to become aware of all this, hence I have started a discussion about it.

Your second paragraph summarizing the myth/story we are immersed in now is a part of what I am saying. But in order to understand this we have to understand all the philosophical, and religious, and occult, stories that has come out of because it's all connected. And the looking into it un-covers it.


Edited by zzripz (01/10/17 04:12 AM)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997456 - 01/10/17 07:20 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I agree with Laughingdog. There has to be some perspective.

Commercialism is a use of popular sentiments to establish a narrative of people buying and consuming products. It is like "predator and prey", a natural mechanism for humans.

Maybe the question is where responsibility begins. If you are older than 20, you have to have something in you to be able to turn this connection off. The world is not a psychic sphere. It is a sphere of attunements. Paranoid thinking is knowing you are "psychically preyed on", but not knowing how to turn off the connection to come back to your own natural headspace. What excuse does anyone have for that?

There is no conspiracy, just the many people trying to take us all for a ride in essentially human ways. Ideology overlaps with consumerism, but in less assuming or overt ways.

Indoctrination is not a question, ("Are we being indoctrinated?" "How are we being indoctrinated?") There is only a particular critique to make when you realize and can put it down in terms of facts in a given situation. You say "this is what they are feeding us through media." And the implied psychological dimension only comes through a media we are attuned to.

If it is overwhelming, why not just turn it off, and go back to your life and living your way? Anyone can do that, at any time. so my view, respectably, is ideological apparatuses and repression are realities, but there is no such thing as mind control.


Edited by Kurt (01/10/17 07:37 AM)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23997475 - 01/10/17 07:36 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Food is a good example of organic mechanisms built into us (foraging, looking for calorie dense energy, like sugars in fruits) that can be exploited by consumer research. But how responsible are we for the way we eat? We can just take the right measures.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997501 - 01/10/17 07:50 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
You completely misunderstand what I am actually saying, so there is no point trying to explain, especially with such an entrenched critical attitude such as yours.




No, I understand perfectly well what you are saying, and I responded to it.

Quote:

If you persist with unfruitful responses, you'll be ignored.




Lol, by all means. The only other person ignoring me is because of this forum as well. Pretty silly that some posting on a philosophy forum can't stand opposing viewpoints. Wouldn't want your narrative challenged.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23997648 - 01/10/17 09:18 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

OK you think you understand me. I take it there is no doubt?

If you say no there isn't, then I am not impressed with that, because there must always be doubt. One can never be totally sure.

But anyhow putting your replies in a group:

Quote:

We may be natural story tellers, but we aren't naturally good story tellers. It takes skill to tell a good story with any artistic merit. Your dream story with your brother, e.g., is trite.

Other than that, what is your point? We experience life in a narrative fashion. We speak of life events as narratives. Of course people are going to use false narratives to mislead. This isn't really new information.

Lol way to jump to ridiculous conclusions. Granting for arguments sake that there are no subjects that haven't been touched, the idea is to have novel insights and approaches. What does your claim that humans are natural storytellers reveal about propaganda and other misleading narratives that is novel? What are we supposed to discuss in this topic? Obviously people use false narratives to deceive, and obviously groups of people do as well. I highly doubt there is some top secret group out there pulling the strings of society as a whole with false narratives. It's just many different people and groups of people doing such for their own gains.




What the hell, here goes~~

Who is to say what is or isn't a good story? it all depends on the context, the person, the age of the person, and how the story affects that person on a personal level. To someone who has never had an addiction problem, the story of someone undergoing it will have a deeper affect on them than maybe someone who hasn't. IE it is subjective what makes a good story. Some people HATE Shakespeare!

You judge my part dream to be trite. I was not asking for you to judge it, and that is NOT the point of why I described it. I meant/was trying to point out how we naturally create stories, NOT that we are all natural novelists :rolleyes:

And anyhow, IF you ever find yourself in a dramatic situation of trying to rescue someone in a river try calling it 'trite' then.

but this is what I mean by I see you missing the point. Not reading me right, not diggin' me. YOU think you do, I think you don't. Impasse.

And your 'of course people use false narratives to mislead' like this is a fact of life and why should anyone question is superficial. I AM questioning it. If you don't want to be part of this inquiry I have begun then don't participate. Stay with your own narrative, whatever that be. This is mine. And I have the freedom to explore this.

The whole point for me is to QUESTION false narratives as they are extremely dangerous, even for the ones not even knowing of them. Especially for them, because they are utterly mind-controlled by them.

you ask:
Quote:

What does your claim that humans are natural storytellers reveal about propaganda and other misleading narratives that is novel?




I am trying to explain just that, but for some reason you are not getting it. Thus I assume you do not really care to/cannot see it, so why should I make more efforts just for you?

To me what I am saying is very clear. BECAUSE the deeper part of us is imagEination, this is a deep way propagandists can manipulate us. the ad industry does this, as does religious propaganda, and scientism, etc.

you conclude without any doubt whatsoeverrrr:
Quote:

I highly doubt there is some top secret group out there pulling the strings of society as a whole with false narratives. It's just many different people and groups of people doing such for their own gains.




I have just quoted Edward Bernays (quoted above, from his book Propaganda) who actually confesses there is just that. A power structure that very well does share an agenda for more and more control over 'the masses'. This may take different forms. For example in the Age of Religion the main social-controlling STORY was disseminated from Church authority. You had to believe the most absurd things, and if you didn't would be charged as being a heretic. Some people were even tortured, burned alive and hanged for not believing or being see to have dealings with the 'Devil' and 'his' 'demons':



So being forced to be immersed in someone else's story can be extremely dangerous! Especially if you question it!

This is why cult leaders, and all author-itarians, HATE being questioned.

This is why a major theme in George Orwell's book 1984 is the torture scene where Winston it tortured to make him BELIEVE the story that 2 + 2 = 5:



This is why looking into all this is very important. As an ongoing process. I don't care you seem to not share my passion. That is sadly (IMO) your story, not mine.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23997667 - 01/10/17 09:28 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:
I agree with Laughingdog. There has to be some perspective.

Commercialism is a use of popular sentiments to establish a narrative of people buying and consuming products. It is like "predator and prey", a natural mechanism for humans.

Maybe the question is where responsibility begins. If you are older than 20, you have to have something in you to be able to turn this connection off. The world is not a psychic sphere. It is a sphere of attunements. Paranoid thinking is knowing you are "psychically preyed on", but not knowing how to turn off the connection to come back to your own natural headspace. What excuse does anyone have for that?

There is no conspiracy, just the many people trying to take us all for a ride in essentially human ways. Ideology overlaps with consumerism, but in less assuming or overt ways.

Indoctrination is not a question, ("Are we being indoctrinated?" "How are we being indoctrinated?") There is only a particular critique to make when you realize and can put it down in terms of facts in a given situation. You say "this is what they are feeding us through media." And the implied psychological dimension only comes through a media we are attuned to.

If it is overwhelming, why not just turn it off, and go back to your life and living your way? Anyone can do that, at any time. so my view, respectably, is ideological apparatuses and repression are realities, but there is no such thing as mind control.



Quote:


It is like "predator and prey", a natural mechanism for humans.




maybe that is a story we are led to believe. I am sure your aware of social darwinism?

I don't understand your second paragraph.


Quote:

There is no conspiracy, just the many people trying to take us all for a ride in essentially human ways. Ideology overlaps with consumerism, but in less assuming or overt ways.




It always amazes me how when the mainstream news use that term 'conspiracy (often more than several times for a report) about some 'low level' criminal activity then that term is consensually acceptable. BUT when it is being applied to a more powerful group tis you who asks questions gets accused of BEING a 'conspiracy theorist' and the assertion of 'conspiracies don't exist'. Obviously they very do!

By the way, trying to 'take us all for a ride' = 'conspiracy'. You are just using different words is all:

Quote:

from Latin conspirare "to agree, unite, plot,"


eg 'come on, lets us taken 'them' for a ride/conspire'

I don't understand the paragraph which follows that.


Quote:

If it is overwhelming, why not just turn it off, and go back to your life and living your way? Anyone can do that, at any time. so my view, respectably, is ideological apparatuses and repression are realities, but there is no such thing as mind control.




LOL, a lot of what you say makes no sense to me. Oh well


Edited by zzripz (01/10/17 09:33 AM)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997735 - 01/10/17 10:05 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I think if you use the word story or "narrative" to describe particular cases of a streamlined thought it is pretty clear. This would be different from using the word "conspiracy". because it is particular and concrete. In a narrative, it is implied the voice is heard or can be heard by all people. conspiracy involves more whispers. It would be worth distinguishing. Maybe it is just a formal point though.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23997741 - 01/10/17 10:07 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Also thanks for quoting the full post and then breaking it down. Good intellectual etiquette even if we are on different pages. :thumbup:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23997911 - 01/10/17 11:25 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:
I think if you use the word story or "narrative" to describe particular cases of a streamlined thought it is pretty clear. This would be different from using the word "conspiracy". because it is particular and concrete. In a narrative, it is implied the voice is heard or can be heard by all people. conspiracy involves more whispers. It would be worth distinguishing. Maybe it is just a formal point though.




From my experience of your input, I would say I found your posts a bit hard to understand. I am guessing you have majored on Philosophy? And so much of what you say and how you say it goes over my head.

I personally come from a position to be AS clear as can be, so that anyone can fathom what I am saying. That is just my way. The first author I found after psychedelic experience who I gelled with was Alan Watts who, although very eloquent, does speak in a way that is very understandable to a broad spectrum of people, regarding the words he chooses.

I don't mean for you to take what I say next in a bad way. I am just telling you from my perspective, and do not expect you to change your style.

You did a thread recently about 'violence' and how it may be transmitted. I held off at the time saying that I find unfathomable words, and the way they may be put together to be a form of violence, like legalize, gobbledygook, and very 'philosophicy' kinds of speak that can cut those out from understanding and common discourse. So they are a power move to keep certain people out and/or controlled. 

So back to what I am trying to communicate. It is at least clear to me that a conspiracy depends ON a narrative, an official story, which people must feel immersed in as it is in the current narrative of there being a 'war on terror'. I am not sure why some people struggle to dig this.


Edited by zzripz (01/10/17 11:27 AM)


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997979 - 01/10/17 11:48 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Who is to say what is or isn't a good story? it all depends on the context, the person, the age of the person, and how the story affects that person on a personal level. To someone who has never had an addiction problem, the story of someone undergoing it will have a deeper affect on them than maybe someone who hasn't. IE it is subjective what makes a good story. Some people HATE Shakespeare!




Any one person's subjective emotional reaction to a story does not bear on that stories qualities-the things that make the story good or bad. One can easily like bad stories or dislike good ones. The idea is to get beyond one's emotional responses and look at the qualities and judge them.

Quote:

You judge my part dream to be trite. I was not asking for you to judge it, and that is NOT the point of why I described it. I meant/was trying to point out how we naturally create stories, NOT that we are all natural novelists :rolleyes:




You claim in the title of the thread that we have a 'natural storytelling genius'. Do you not know what the term genius means? PC nonsense about everyone being creative and everyone having a story to tell are just that-nonsense. Not everyone's story is worth telling and not everyone has the ability to tell a story in a quality way.

Quote:

And anyhow, IF you ever find yourself in a dramatic situation of trying to rescue someone in a river try calling it 'trite' then.




Actually experiencing something and hearing a story about something are completely different things.

Quote:

The whole point for me is to QUESTION false narratives as they are extremely dangerous, even for the ones not even knowing of them. Especially for them, because they are utterly mind-controlled by them.




I never said don't question false narratives. I just asked you what your silly assertion that we have a 'natural storytelling genius' brings to the table.

Your whole idea about a 'predatory elite' precludes that claim anyway, since if we had a natural genius for storytelling, we would all be able to construct good enough false narratives to pull the strings of the masses. If only a 'predatory elite' has that ability, that means that most people do not have that ability, hence have no 'genius' for storytelling.

Quote:

To me what I am saying is very clear. BECAUSE the deeper part of us is imagEination, this is a deep way propagandists can manipulate us. the ad industry does this, as does religious propaganda, and scientism, etc.




Once again some of your claims show others to be silly. If we are so imaginative and naturally gifted as storytellers, why is it that the majority of us can be so easily swayed by the false narratives of others? If we were so naturally gifted, we would be able to recognize these things. The fact is that most people are unimaginative and kind of stupid, and are thus easily given to being swayed by the false narratives of others.

Quote:

I have just quoted Edward Bernays (quoted above, from his book Propaganda) who actually confesses there is just that. A power structure that very well does share an agenda for more and more control over 'the masses'.




Sounds to me that you are accepting the narrative given by this one guy because it is in line with your ideas about a conspiracy. As you keep saying to others who disagree with you: maybe that is a story you are led to believe.

Yes, there are obviously conspiracies that are real. However, most conspiracies come out because people can't keep their mouths shut. Also, human incompetence basically guarantees that most conspiracies will fail, especially the more people who are involved.

Quote:

So back to what I am trying to communicate. It is at least clear to me that a conspiracy depends ON a narrative, an official story, which people must feel immersed in




Yes, conspiracies depend on a narrative, but conspiracy theorists also construct their own narratives, and each side ignores evidence that goes against their narrative. It is the rare person in the middle who can look at the actual evidence and weigh it against the various narratives to come closer to the reality of things.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997991 - 01/10/17 11:53 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I just mean that stories or narratives are as you say pretty natural to humans. My view is that most things that occur in ideological sphere and in any sort indoctrination, or commercialism in the media are also more or less natural. They basically work by the same mechanics of telling a story from a certain point of view that reaches a number of people.

I'd say you seem to bring up many good points, in that we are (historically, in our lives) embedded in a world so saturated with media that it can be disconcerting, but I was only saying I think conspiracy is the wrong way to interpret the situation. That may just be my style of thinking though.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23998281 - 01/10/17 01:42 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:
I just mean that stories or narratives are as you say pretty natural to humans. My view is that most things that occur in ideological sphere and in any sort indoctrination, or commercialism in the media are also more or less natural. They basically work by the same mechanics of telling a story from a certain point of view that reaches a number of people.

I'd say you seem to bring up many good points, in that we are (historically, in our lives) embedded in a world so saturated with media that it can be disconcerting, but I was only saying I think conspiracy is the wrong way to interpret the situation. That may just be my style of thinking though.




Yes they are telling a story but are what I am calling toxic stories. Myths constructed to control, and make profit from. So in other words they exploit our natural inherent story telling genius in a similar to way to our inherent love and need for natural sugars are exploited. They substitute their toxic 'goods' which are harmful and cause diseases, even for little children. Likewise they substitue their toxic stories which they try and immerse us in so we are not even aware this is being done to us. Conspiracy!


We are not only saturated with media but also religious indoctrination, New Age ideas, political propaganda, scientism and occultism. So the diving into this subject, if freely explored is very interesting because you uncover the interconnectedness of all this,

As I briefly explained in a previous post the very term 'conspiracy' is a loaded term. The actual media uses it to explain 'low level crime', and I have heard them use the term over and over again in just a report lasting a minute! But dare use the term to question the larger authoritarian structure and THAT is when you get the term thrown at you in a derogatory way.

So OK, surely the critically reasonable thing to do next is wonder about the term itself. How has it come about it is being used one way and it is alright, but another way it is not. Had the CIA something to do with it being used to undermine th questioning of official STORIES? I would think that sounds about right:

Quote:

Professor Miller suggests that an attempt was orchestrated by the CIA and their friends in the media to soil the phrase 'conspiracy theorist' with connotations of craziness, noting that since 1980 it has taken on an almost purely perjorative connotation, as if the official narrative is never mistaken or mendacious. As Miller notes, the reverse was assumed to be true in the public discourse only a century or so back; distrust of authority used to be very common place, and formed the backdrop of a lot of political negotiations and some of the laws passed in USA. Conspiracy was formerly understood to be a potent force.
Nowadays however, the label 'conspiracy theorist' has become an ad hominem attack used on those with opinions which threaten the powers that be, as if anyone harboring such thoughts can be safely dismissed as a victim of irrational paranoia, possibly even mentally unbalanced or dangerous. The commercially-controlled media clearly have a commercial interest in casting suspicion on anyone whose primary source of information is elsewhere as inherently suspect, so it is easy to see why they might wish to repeatedly lump together patently absurd ideas together with well-founded doubts about the official narrative under a single label:'conspiracy theory' source[1]




Now a new term has joined it, 'fake news'. This is being used by politicians and their media to try and silence alternative stories which may uncover conspiracies. Great irony here. But many people will be oblivious to it. They will just accept what ever the TOXIC story is spinning them from the mass media.

So there needs to be talk about this. To face up to the strange matrix of interlocking storytimes we are all involved in. Wanna fall down the rabbit hole? then follow me~~~



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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23998300 - 01/10/17 01:49 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I'm convinced that zzripz or whatever his name is, is a disinfo government agent.  He has me on ignore, he knows better.  Think about it, what better way to convince someone is paranoid, than by being paranoid.

I actually agree with about 70 percent of what he says, it's that last 30% that is the bugaboo.


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Edited by LunarEclipse (01/11/17 07:09 AM)


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23998520 - 01/10/17 03:24 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

A conspiracy theory about the term conspiracy theory? Damn that's some meta shit.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23999729 - 01/10/17 10:25 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
pathetic response and lack of to this inquiry IMO




you're consistent in presuming that people don't just naturally do this...make up pleasing stories for themselves to live by, and then to also assert your ideas on the world and people, to be subject to your story, whether by history, civics, or perhaps whatever else is brought to the fore. :shrug:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24000397 - 01/11/17 07:22 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
A conspiracy theory about the term conspiracy theory? Damn that's some meta shit.




Another very good and important example of these double standards from the mainstream about the term of 'conspiracy'. In their 9/11 official STORY they have no problem using that term to support their absurd tale of 19 hijackers being able to dodge the most expensive defense in the world with boxcutters etc etc etc. Non whatsoever. BUT if you dare claim that other people were involved not mentioned in their story is when you get called conspiracy theorist, and 'nutjob' bla bla bla.

As the quote I provided above said, apparently earlier in history there was no judgement of calling out a possible conspiracy by government, and this is why that propaganda term was utilized by the CIA, at the time of the JFK assassination, so as to ridicule alternative stories of what happened, eg there being others involved other than Oswald, which they would also call now their new term, 'false news'.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24000412 - 01/11/17 07:41 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
A conspiracy theory about the term conspiracy theory? Damn that's some meta shit.




Took you off ignore.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24000742 - 01/11/17 10:26 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Another very good and important example of these double standards from the mainstream about the term of 'conspiracy'. In their 9/11 official STORY they have no problem using that term to support their absurd tale of 19 hijackers being able to dodge the most expensive defense in the world with boxcutters etc etc etc. Non whatsoever. BUT if you dare claim that other people were involved not mentioned in their story is when you get called conspiracy theorist, and 'nutjob' bla bla bla.

As the quote I provided above said, apparently earlier in history there was no judgement of calling out a possible conspiracy by government, and this is why that propaganda term was utilized by the CIA, at the time of the JFK assassination, so as to ridicule alternative stories of what happened, eg there being others involved other than Oswald, which they would also call now their new term, 'false news'.




People who think there is a larger conspiracy behind 9/11 and the JFK assassination are just as guilty of holding to their narratives against all evidence and ignoring evidence that does not bolster their narrative than people who believe the official narratives. Most of the time, their narratives are just as or even more absurd than the official ones. They are also just as guilty of disparaging the other side, as that is much easier to do than actually listen and consider.

Also, I like how you just ignored my long comment after berating me for not replying to you with anything of substance. Classic.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24000745 - 01/11/17 10:26 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
A conspiracy theory about the term conspiracy theory? Damn that's some meta shit.




Took you off ignore.




Hella.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24000790 - 01/11/17 10:48 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Follow The Money.  Money Never Sleeps, Pal.



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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24001460 - 01/11/17 02:51 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:


People who think there is a larger conspiracy behind 9/11 and the JFK assassination are just as guilty of holding to their narratives against all evidence and ignoring evidence that does not bolster their narrative than people who believe the official narratives. Most of the time, their narratives are just as or even more absurd than the official ones. They are also just as guilty of disparaging the other side, as that is much easier to do than actually listen and consider.

Also, I like how you just ignored my long comment after berating me for not replying to you with anything of substance. Classic.





Quote:

People who think there is a larger conspiracy behind 9/11 and the JFK assassination are just as guilty of holding to their narratives against all evidence and ignoring evidence that does not bolster their narrative than people who believe the official narratives.




... :lolwut:

There is lots of evidence which contradicts the official story. This is for YOU to make an effort to dis-cover like many have done so for themselves. Here though are some hints:

There is not just one story offering alternative evidence for what happened on 9/11.

There is a strong possibility that there has been an infiltration of ideas/stories meant to discredit the more sensible investigations.

But in order to look at all this you have to see the context!


Quote:


context (n.) Look up context at Dictionary.com
    early 15c., from Latin contextus "a joining together," originally past participle of contexere "to weave together," from com "with, together" (see com-) + texere "to weave, to make" (see texture (n.)).




You have to join the dots, and see patterns, connections, PLOTS, and sub-plots, etc.

You have to see/look for what every good detective looks for, MEANS, OPPORTUNITY, and MOTIVE. And of course CUI BONO, or 'who gains'. Who profits from war. Checkout 'War is a Racket'!

You have look at how the story is composed, its layers.

I learnt this VERY much after reading The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John Allegro many years ago where he reveals how biblical mythological script is composed in layers of meaning where the superficial layer is meant for the gullible (like the '19 hijackers with boxcutters' etc etc), where deeper layers are meant for a more intellectual understanding, but the core layer is only meant for the initiated who understand the devices, code, and so on.

Well same is so for the 9/11 story/myth which set the world up for the new 'war on terror' (replacing the 'Devil' boogeyman, or the 'Commies' boogeyman, though that has recently come back) where there now can be perpetual war using 9/11 as its core pretext. Just what they love.

They keep this fear going with related events which are also set-up psychological operations (psyops).

When you say:
Quote:

Most of the time, their narratives are just as or even more absurd than the official ones.



Well, depending on which narratives you mean we may agree on this.:what2: I am skeptical of Dr Judy Wood's story, for example.

And do not presume I do not listen and consider either.

As for your comment. I DID reply to your last comment.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24001516 - 01/11/17 03:15 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Don't worry, zzripz, you play the paranoid conspiracy theorist to a "T".  That's why I don't trust you.  I honestly think you may be getting paid for being so obtuse, then I can't imagine somebody hiring you for it, and I give up.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24001632 - 01/11/17 04:03 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
There is lots of evidence which contradicts the official story.




Good thing I didn't say there wasn't. What I said is that both sides cling to their narratives despite evidence that goes against them.

Quote:

Well, depending on which narratives you mean we may agree on this.:what2: I am skeptical of Dr Judy Wood's story, for example.




Exactly, there are always multiple narratives coming from the people who disbelieve the official narratives. This is because people often look at evidence the way they want to and disregard evidence that goes against their pet theory. Just like the holders of the official narratives disregard legitimate evidence pointing away from their narrative.

In these types of cases, the very fact that people hold to their narratives and act as if they are sure what happened is absurd. There are too many factors involved and too much 'evidence' that may or may not be true. One has to look at everything and weigh the information taking into account the likelihood of its legitimacy. Most people don't do this. Instead, they find a narrative they like and block out anything that goes against it.

Quote:

As for your comment. I DID reply to your last comment.




You replied to my flippant comment about the conspiracy theory conspiracy, but you ignored this comment.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24003176 - 01/12/17 05:16 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

It is all very well you saying all of this with your words. But they do not mean anything unless you back them up with examples. So? :strokebeard:

And what comment. Can you not see I reply to each point? Past the comment you worried about me neglecting to a new post.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24003386 - 01/12/17 08:34 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
It is all very well you saying all of this with your words. But they do not mean anything unless you back them up with examples. So? :strokebeard:




:lolwut:

Asinine.

Quote:

And what comment. Can you not see I reply to each point? Past the comment you worried about me neglecting to a new post.




Dude, are you just being willfully dense? Did you click the link? You did not respond to the comment that link leads to.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24003802 - 01/12/17 11:23 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

you are wasting my time, and clogging up my thread with nonesense.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24003874 - 01/12/17 11:53 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

This culture is supposed to love the 'rational' and not only have disrespect for what it considers irrational, but also abuse and torture and murder 'it'.

For example, animals, thought not to be rational, and 'animal testing'. The people that do it to them worship their own 'rationality', and will be proud to say they are not sentimental, emotional, in their using of animals for 'science', because they function rationally.

Likewise people(s) considered 'close to/as like animals' have been 'tested' on also. Two terrible such 'operations' spring to mind, the giving of syphilis to AfroAmerican men, and testing Nuclear bombs on native peoples who they considered 'savages':



So just for the hell of it I thought I'd search 'from mythos to rationality' and found this:


Quote:

Summary

Mythos and logos

Already in ancient Greece it was recognised that there were two distinct ways of thinking and acquiring knowledge. One was ‘mythos’, which relied upon narrative (fabula) and folk knowledge, and the other was ‘logos’, which referred to logical and rational analysis of the phenomena in question. From the very beginning the distinction between mythos and logos created controversies. Geoffrey Lloyd (1990) argued that the dispute between mythos and logos was not based on sound analysis of these two kinds of mental processes but that it was a battlefield in which contestants defended their philosophical territories and confronted their political rivals. According to Cassirer (1946), the first philosopher who attacked mythical conceptions was the historian Thucydides, who, despite knowing that the lack of fabula and romance in his writing would detract the attention of readers, nevertheless proclaimed that he desired to present exact historical knowledge. Rationality and methodical procedures characterised Greek thought in all domains of knowing, ranging from the cosmos to the study of nature and self-knowledge.

When we come to Plato, we find that he attributed a higher degree of reality to non-material and abstract ideas acquired through rational thought than to knowing the world through sensations and experience. According to Plato, mythos – or muthos – was always subjected to logos (e.g. Halliwell, 2000). Analysing Plato's citations from numerous poets, Halliwell (2000) finds that imaginative or fictive status or muthoi (mythos) in poetic texts and in Platonic dialogues was always subsumed under logoi (logos). It meant that assertions in Platonic dialogues had to be appraised in terms of truth and falsity, although it was well acknowledged that truth and falsity were difficult to separate. Yet other scholars, like Dodds (1951), argued in considerable detail that even in Plato's thinking we can find cross-fertilisation of rationalism and magical-religious ideas of shamanistic culture and of the occult nature of the Self. Plato strongly argued against images and imagination. For him, imagination was no more than imitation of ideal or true forms, as he explains in the Republic (Plato, 1991, pp. 283–284). Referring to poets, and specifically to Homer, Plato called him an imitator who copied images of virtue, but he could never reach the truth of God. Equally, a painter makes images of things about which he knows nothing and he is admired by those who know even less than he does. source




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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24003920 - 01/12/17 12:14 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

"Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us?"

well I suppose you could say TV and movies have this effect and use this method

advertising which uses still images works by simple association and is also effective

the issue I have with the idea is in the 3 words: "a predatory elite"

it would seem there are many competing corporations, governments, hackers, cartels, mercinaries, conglomerates, currency manipulators, advertisers, media, wealthy families, and in general bad guys - so that the idea of a single mastermind or unified group seems unlikely.

Unfortunately the result of so much bad energy has had a unified effect of continual war - for centuries, and more recently of world wide pollution.

The other long result of civilization has been inequality - in this case for thousands of years - and therefore not a result of the manipulations of current power seekers.

To what degree war has been a result of myth making is perhaps an interesting question. Certainly some wars have been started by lies. Others seem to be the result of population pressures.

Pollution would not seem to be caused by "storytelling".

Likewise anthropolocial studies of the rise of inequality in different cultures does not point to "storytelling" as the cause. Again we are looking at thousands of years in this case.

So, (even skipping individual psychological factors) human misery cannot be blamed on "a predatory elite" that attempts to control us in my opinion.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24003938 - 01/12/17 12:24 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Likewise anthropolocial studies of the rise of inequality in different cultures does not point to "storytelling" as the cause. Again we are looking at thousands of years in this case.

So, (even skipping individual psychological factors) human misery cannot be blamed on "a predatory elite" that attempts to control us in my opinion.




Absolutely. I just read a book about ancient Rome, and they were plagued by inequality. Its effect on the culture at large was one (of many) of the reasons that the empire weakened and eventually fizzled out. The general phenomenon seems to be that a rich minority controls the majority of the property (including money), and there is therefore differential wealth and earning power, which leads to a huge imbalance. This has nothing to do with storytelling.

It has been about the 1% since time immemorial, and if you really look, it has been about the 1% in the U.S. since its beginning. The Founding Fathers were really principally interested in the 1%. And this has carried on toward the present. They don't have to manipulate us through stories. They simply have all the power, and are basically untouchable.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24003999 - 01/12/17 12:50 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
you are wasting my time, and clogging up my thread with nonesense.




Lol. Don't pretend you care about your thread being 'clogged', you can't even be bothered to read all the replies anyway. :smug:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24004041 - 01/12/17 01:07 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Always felt some people have more aptitude for storytelling, my brain is easily distracted, my step-father was a natural and definitely would have been whatever position that was before writing.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24004214 - 01/12/17 02:02 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
you are wasting my time, and clogging up my thread with nonesense.



just nig him like you do everyone else that doesn't lap up your bullshit without question.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24004248 - 01/12/17 02:13 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

I think it's always wise to keep in mind that history was written by the victors.  The true "story" is far from what's in the history books at school.  Of course this is mind control along with the narrative presented by the media.

Hollywood is an interesting phenomenon.  The message that Disney presents, for example, is certainly meant to influence young minds in ways that surely they don't understand, nor do their parents. This doesn't change the fact that such influence is taking place. 

McDonald's for example has made a living by telling a story that kids want to hear.  Maybe the babies in the food is working too. Human DNA yep it's in there, along with the pink slime.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24004271 - 01/12/17 02:20 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

not really. pink slime is not used in their products. that's essentially bullshit.

and human DNA also ends up in my mom's food. her food safety procedures are ASININE, hell, she doesn't even wear gloves when she prepares food!


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24004282 - 01/12/17 02:24 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
not really. pink slime is not used in their products. that's essentially bullshit.

and human DNA also ends up in my mom's food. her food safety procedures are ASININE, hell, she doesn't even wear gloves when she prepares food!




Maybe she's spirit cooking and you just don't know about it because she calls it a Pot Luck Dinner.  Ha!


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24004288 - 01/12/17 02:25 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

that's gotta be it.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24004313 - 01/12/17 02:32 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
that's gotta be it.




Does she like goat products?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24004320 - 01/12/17 02:35 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

probably. the goat often will try to gore it's keeper, so i'm sure she likes goats- to add her immortal blood into the recipe, she does what she needs to.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24004340 - 01/12/17 02:41 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
probably. the goat often will try to gore it's keeper, so i'm sure she likes goats- to add her immortal blood into the recipe, she does what she needs to.




My friend has a property that the neighbors goat used to come on to come on to his tenant.  It was particularly bad when she was menstruating that goat wanted to butt her butt then.

Anyway, this guy goes over there one night and "gets into it" with the goat.  Ends up smacking the goat with an anchor a few times then wraps a heavy chain around it's head in between the goat trying to butt the fuck out of his narrow ass.  Pretty funny story.  Goat owner comes over was bitching my buddy fucked up his on the run aggressive goat.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24004362 - 01/12/17 02:47 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

goat's have no fear, they stand on sheer vertical cliff walls, for fucks sakes.

no wonder they get such a bad rep. they hate menstruating and smelly ladies who stink like they might bear children.

the devil never sleeps, if you consider the goat's tenacity.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24004376 - 01/12/17 02:50 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
goat's have no fear, they stand on sheer vertical cliff walls, for fucks sakes.

no wonder they get such a bad rep. they hate menstruating and smelly ladies who stink like they might bear children.

the devil never sleeps, if you consider the goat's tenacity.




one day i took on a whole herd of long horn cows up the hill.  split off the calf momma came at me i had a fucking two pound rock in my hand and yelled "NO" and she backed off.  this after me turning my back on her and she charging me.

fuck i got hella fucking lucky that day not to die.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24004408 - 01/12/17 03:01 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

i wonder how many Indian graves are marked "killed by Krshna's beloved herd - blesséd be, with libations of pee".

(yeah, i had a staring context once with some cows, that was fun- there was a fence separating us though. but good job on convincing mom you stole one of her calves...stupid cow. :lol: )


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24004430 - 01/12/17 03:08 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

No, stupid me for walking down the middle of the herd splitting calf to one side.  A few days later I took them on again, threw a rock at mom who was literally pawing at the ground before coming at me. I had to run down the hill I could see their horns over the crest fucking slow ass cows it's unreal.  Cows are big! 

I have a deer that loves me that walked a few feet from me.  Deer are big too.  Deer are sketchy as fuck too I'd trust a cow to at least not completely sketch like a deer will. Had some deer bounce off a fence the other day wham, then jumps it and saunters off like it didn't hurt.  You fucking know it hurt!  Cocky deer.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24004455 - 01/12/17 03:15 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

lol, deer are awesome. once, me and a friend were talking and walking through the woods, and i was like looking back at him, as he was behind me, and i was talking and walking along, when suddenly i turn around to face my front and BAM a big ass deer is right in front of me, staring at me, head high like :meffz:

i admit, i yelped...i didn't expect him to be there. :lol: he scared the shit out of me, nearly. funny thing is, he just stood there, staring...i looked back thinking "how didn't i see that coming, this thing is huge"- and it was, huge and shiny. it basically amounted to a hallucination, it was literally the most detailed thing (it's coat) i ever laid eyes on...much erm...more fascinating then say the coat of a horse or something. (PS: horseback- so fun. that shit is keen. 'cept when you've got a stubborn horse that doesn't like you and runs you into tree branches, against your wishes! :crankey: son of a bitch could have knocked me off! but it's ok, i just broke through a bunch of tree branches, flailing my arms around like a tool. :durrhurr: could have got stabbed in the eye, too!)

oh yeah, the deer just walked off...my friend got a good laugh too. i honestly thought about it later like...why did that deer react or do anything? it was just...random.)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24004489 - 01/12/17 03:24 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

We came upon a big buck once it was above us then jumped over us that was freaky shit.  Right over us and down the trail it had been on a big rock.

Yeah deer can't see for shit is the problem.  They really can't.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24004524 - 01/12/17 03:33 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

fo'real? that's why he didn't like do anything...dude, i was RIGHT in front of him, like...seriously...i have never hunted deer...i might as well have been loading him on the bed of a truck. i was that close. i nearly walked into the fuckin' guy. it was just looking at me, off to it's side...you're saying it could barely see me, perhaps? does it have poorer frontal vision, or what?

PS: a deer jumped over you? that's pretty badass. deer are obviously pretty cool. they don't give a fuck.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24004563 - 01/12/17 03:44 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
fo'real? that's why he didn't like do anything...dude, i was RIGHT in front of him, like...seriously...i have never hunted deer...i might as well have been loading him on the bed of a truck. i was that close. i nearly walked into the fuckin' guy. it was just looking at me, off to it's side...you're saying it could barely see me, perhaps? does it have poorer frontal vision, or what?

PS: a deer jumped over you? that's pretty badass. deer are obviously pretty cool. they don't give a fuck.




my friend literally had a deer freeze in front of him and was blocking the road.  he tapped the deer with his car and it freaked.  you've heard the expression the deer in the headlights, well it's true, they just freak out and freeze.  i don't think they see that well either, maybe to the sides but not forward must be a herd thing or something.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24004632 - 01/12/17 04:07 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

yeah, that's strange, it's almost like they can see fine to the side, and seem more comfortable with that, then that which is in front of them...what's in front seems to confound them, in a sense.

lol, how did it freak out? did it like lash out, or just launch like a speeding bullet away?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24004665 - 01/12/17 04:17 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
yeah, that's strange, it's almost like they can see fine to the side, and seem more comfortable with that, then that which is in front of them...what's in front seems to confound them, in a sense.

lol, how did it freak out? did it like lash out, or just launch like a speeding bullet away?




speeding bullet. 

my deer, aka Polly, who I feed crackers etc to, is a case in point.  Motion in front freaks them out.  Their reaction is to run.  Most predators would try to circle around and do the rear end run.  So, they watch most keenly on the sides.

Anyway, if I frisbee the cracker I can almost hit Polly in the head without her even seeing it.  Kind of funny.  As long as I make one quick motion, she doesn't register, a flick of the wrist kind of thing.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24004688 - 01/12/17 04:27 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
"Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us?"

well I suppose you could say TV and movies have this effect and use this method

advertising which uses still images works by simple association and is also effective

the issue I have with the idea is in the 3 words: "a predatory elite"

it would seem there are many competing corporations, governments, hackers, cartels, mercinaries, conglomerates, currency manipulators, advertisers, media, wealthy families, and in general bad guys - so that the idea of a single mastermind or unified group seems unlikely.

Unfortunately the result of so much bad energy has had a unified effect of continual war - for centuries, and more recently of world wide pollution.

The other long result of civilization has been inequality - in this case for thousands of years - and therefore not a result of the manipulations of current power seekers.

To what degree war has been a result of myth making is perhaps an interesting question. Certainly some wars have been started by lies. Others seem to be the result of population pressures.

Pollution would not seem to be caused by "storytelling".

Likewise anthropolocial studies of the rise of inequality in different cultures does not point to "storytelling" as the cause. Again we are looking at thousands of years in this case.

So, (even skipping individual psychological factors) human misery cannot be blamed on "a predatory elite" that attempts to control us in my opinion.




Quote:

"Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us?"

well I suppose you could say TV and movies have this effect and use this method

advertising which uses still images works by simple association and is also effective

the issue I have with the idea is in the 3 words: "a predatory elite"




Good question! You are wondering how come all these differing groups can be called out to be under an umbrella term I call a predatory elite? And Divided Quantum agrees there is and 'always has been' a 1% of a mega rich group:

Quote:

It has been about the 1% since time immemorial, and if you really look, it has been about the 1% in the U.S. since its beginning. The Founding Fathers were really principally interested in the 1%. And this has carried on toward the present. They don't have to manipulate us through stories. They simply have all the power, and are basically untouchable.




I wonder we understand what unimaginable wealth could be like. Would they NOT have the power to form a pyramidal hierarchical structure where all these seeming separate interests are not rather dancing to the same piper?

This is how it works in the military, and is known as The Chain of Command, and it is where the many 'subordinates' to the power over them at the 'top' (which is relatively small in comparison) MUST obey orders, and cannot question them or else they face severe punishment. IE a good example of that is Bradley Manning!!

Quote:

In his statement, Manning talked about how the more he saw of the secret databases of information he was reviewing as an intelligence analyst in Iraq, the more he was alarmed about the costs of war, both for innocent Iraqi civilians and for American society. "I believed if the public, particularly the American public, could see this it could spark a debate on the military and our foreign policy in general [that] might cause society to reconsider the need to engage in counterterrorism while ignoring the human situation of the people we engaged with every day."




Well same is so of this civlization. The wants of the top elite will be demanded to be met by the subordinate groups which bring them the profits which keep them getting richer and richer and more powerful etc etc. That WANT this to continue, and they very well will spin stories to do that. because when we are immersed in their stories they have to do far less to police us, because we do it to ourselves and each other.
This is what '9/11' surely was about and its deliberate bringing about the so-called 'war on terror' which gives them pretext for perpetual war, because war brings them extremely substantial profits.

I have mentioned context, pretext, but have not mentioned subtext yet:

[hmmm interesting, there doesn't seem to be any etymology of this term]
Quote:


The implicit meaning of a text, often a literary one, or a speech or dialogue.




There's also this definition:
Quote:

Did You Know?

A literary text often has more than one meaning: the literal meaning of the words on the page, and their hidden meaning, what exists "between the lines"—the subtext. Arthur Miller's play The Crucible, for example, is about the Salem witchcraft trials of the 17th century, but its subtext is the comparison of those trials with the "witch hunts" of the 1950s, when many people were unfairly accused of being communists. Even a social conversation between a man and a woman may have a subtext, but you may have to listen very closely to figure out what it is. Don't confuse subtext with subplot, a less important plot that moves along in parallel with the main plot.




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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24004783 - 01/12/17 04:56 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

The predatory elite are killing themselves, as well as us the little people.  Sure, "they" have some cures we aren't being told about, but I would count on them being able to stop their mad destruction.

We may be exploited, but we are all in this thing together.



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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24004808 - 01/12/17 05:05 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Also regarding mythos and logos, I want to make note of this which can be looked at as part of this story~~~
Mythos & Logos: Two Ways of Explaining the World
Quote:


I find it useful when discussing this distinction to consider the Greek words from which our English words “logical” and “mythical” have been derived, logos and mythos. Both Greek words can be translated as something like “story” or “account”; mythical thinking and logical thinking both provide an account of the world, but they do so in very different ways. Those using logical thinking approach the world scientifically and empirically. They look for explanations using observable facts, controlled experiments, and deductive proofs. Truth discovered through logos seeks to be objective and universal. Those using mythical thinking, on the other hand, approach the world through less direct, more intuitive means. A person might gain poetic insights into the nature of the world by seeing a caterpillar emerge from a cocoon or watching a full moon rise as the sun sets. Truth discovered through mythos is more subjective, based on individual feelings and experiences.




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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24006536 - 01/13/17 08:33 AM (7 years, 17 days ago)

there is something wrong here. Something not being admitted to/known/acknowledged.

In both the latter quote and the quote above about how in ancient Greece there happened this conflict between mythos and logos. IE presuming that they are two completely different worldviews.

It is being implied there is no logic in mythos and no mythos in logos!

Well if we understand for example textual mythology, there surely has been logic applied. IE if you read The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross there has been a lot of logos applied regarding composing myths in layers of meaning which included the literary devices of transliteration, wordplay and pun, the use of dead languages such as Sumerian. As well as this there is numerology, gematria, symbolism, occult astrology etc.

So it is a lie to claim mythos is not including logic

Even preceding the invention of writing, mythos and logos can never BE apart because they always form a dynamic

So what about logical philosophy, and even science then? Does myths lurk about in these disciplines, and practices?

Of course, because you cannot ever split dynamics. it would be like trying to split eg magnet's poles, all you would get would be 'smaller' magnet but always with the polar relations.

Can we split darkness and light? No. So I see the same with mythos and logos. When the latter presumes you can is when mythos becomes un-conscious. IMAGES form willy nilly. So we now have scientism with its image of 'only matter'/'materialism'. 'Only dead nature', other species and even humans are commodities. All these becomes the unacknowledged story/mythology; meanwhile they purveyors of this myth believe it is all based on logos!


Edited by zzripz (01/13/17 08:34 AM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24009200 - 01/14/17 08:58 AM (7 years, 16 days ago)



So we can have subtext of text of course, but of images also.

What are the texts and  images, which include symbols and numbers and numbered letters (gematria) conveying? Is it, shhhhh, secret?

Are the real meanings only to be known by a predatory elite with insider knowledge?

Could is be possible the image by and for this group be an OWL which subtextually is meaning those who are 'superior' and can 'see in the dark' and take unknowing prey by surprise as it/the Owl swoops down for the kill?



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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24009228 - 01/14/17 09:10 AM (7 years, 16 days ago)

too many questions, Grasshopper; focus on one thing and let the light spread from that.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24009606 - 01/14/17 11:35 AM (7 years, 16 days ago)

they're interconnected


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24009632 - 01/14/17 11:48 AM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Dirk Gently might have something to say about that


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24009807 - 01/14/17 01:22 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

The funny part of this idea of 'a predatory elite'
is that although, it presents itself, as a modern and profound idea known only to the congnizanti or smart insiders,
it actually functions psychologically in the minds of those who believe it,
exactly the way the Christian idea of the Devil has for hundreds or thousands of years,
in the minds of those who believed in that notion.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24009950 - 01/14/17 02:45 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

In other words, the common people whom zz claims are being nefariously manipulated, are complicitous to a large extent. Imho, if guilt were to be assigned, then everyone would be guilty, not just those at the top.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24010005 - 01/14/17 03:03 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

what I had in mind was something like this:
1) oversimplification
2) a very tidy view of the world
3) 'black and white' 'thinking'
4) viewing one self as good & 'the other' as bad
5) getting a sense of security from such a world view,
which is partly based on ignoring one's own feelings of insecurity / uncertainty


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24010032 - 01/14/17 03:12 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Sure. There are both religious and secular versions of that. Politically it takes the form of mob rule and gets clowns elected to important offices.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #24010044 - 01/14/17 03:15 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
The funny part of this idea of 'a predatory elite'
is that although, it presents itself, as a modern and profound idea known only to the congnizanti or smart insiders,
it actually functions psychologically in the minds of those who believe it,
exactly the way the Christian idea of the Devil has for hundreds or thousands of years,
in the minds of those who believed in that notion.




...lol. oh yeah, I know, this sht touches a nerve. of course it does!

I will not leave it there though and address your logic best way I can:

Don't get caught up in the term 'predatory elite'. That is just A term I cam up with. There are other words, like oligarchy, occultocracy, or groups who are diverse but share the same symbolism and numerology and agenda


You are trying to have me as one of the 'congnizanti or smart insiders'. But I could easily term your ilk that, if you mean this in a put-down way, as in your so smart you can see we are NOT smart-but-think-we-are, but you know better. BECAUSE you unlike others have been presented with what your 'insiders' are presenting as evidence but you do not accept it.

You think the evidence is not actually real but a 'belief'.

You compare this belief with the belief in the 'Devil' by Christian believers.

This incredibly after I have been trying to explain the whole Devil story, and how it came to be used as the boogie man by an authoritarian power structure like 'the terrorist' and/or the 'war on terror' is being used now by the same mindset of story-tellers/toxic myth makers.

But you rather judge us--people exploring this toxic story-making by officialdom with its context, pretext and subtext to be making a devil out of a 'predatory elite'. That is your argument right?

:crazy2:


Edited by zzripz (01/14/17 03:18 PM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #24010111 - 01/14/17 03:43 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

as Werner Erhart said
"even the truth believed is a lie"
Buddhism, also 2500 years previously,
said something similar

I would say simply the degree to which one is attached to proving a view point is the degree to which one is out of touch with present reality.

of course after saying such a thing I would be a fool if I tried to prove it

this is why both scientific method and Buddhism say: test it for yourself

in NLP it is said the meaning of a communication is it's effect on the other person,
not what one thinks the meaning is - again a little subtler than attempting to find "the source of evil in the world".

I suppose I too could be criticized for believing I was an insider and smarter if I consistently, with much emotional investment, proposed odd belief systems, that claimed to explain all of human reality, -- but on the contrary my effort like Erhart's, Buddha's, & Socrates and company is to hint at the dangers of believing one has all the answers. It is not a new or special idea. And questioning what payoffs behaviors provide those who engage in them is not new or special either. And neither is going a step further and questioning ourselves in the same way. Positing 'the major evil' in an exterior source is off course obviously  guaranteed to direct our attention elsewhere. (Meaning away from the payoffs belief systems maybe providing us with, and away from even the notion that we maybe sabotaging ourselves, by ignoring aspects of our own psyche.)


Edited by laughingdog (01/15/17 12:16 AM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24010229 - 01/14/17 04:27 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Allow me to share an excerpt from the book Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire by Simon Baker:

Quote:

Hadrian's prosperous, peaceful empire was, above all, one of extremes of inequality. For example, slaves significantly outnumbered citizens, and this simple fact made the latter nervous. If slaves could organize, they could become a powerful collective force. Another fault line was property. The massive polity primarily served and protected the interests of landowners rather than the peasants who worked the land. While the rich few exploited the well-worn trade routes of the Mediterranean and wowed their friends at dinner parties with a menu of peacock from Arabia, the majority of the poor lived meagrely on what could be produced locally. The rights of citizens too set apart the haves from the have-nots; those without Roman citizenship could earn it, but for most that meant a lifetime of military service in the Roman army.





Does it sound like the Romans had to engage in any control methods to keep the poor poor? Did they manipulate the media (of which there were none at the time); did they promulgate propaganda? Did they really have to do anything? No, they were in power. They controlled the empire. They did not need to actively oppress people. Everything fell into, and stayed in, place, sociologically. There was no control via any narrative.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24011269 - 01/15/17 04:07 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
what I had in mind was something like this:
1) oversimplification
2) a very tidy view of the world
3) 'black and white' 'thinking'
4) viewing one self as good & 'the other' as bad
5) getting a sense of security from such a world view,
which is partly based on ignoring one's own feelings of insecurity / uncertainty




OK let me try address your points here:

Quote:

1) oversimplification




you think what I present is oversimplication...?:eek: I rather think it is revealing quite a lot of deep sht. What I would call oversimplication is eg the literal reading of things, like the Bible, the Koran, Buddhism, this secular culture. Whereas once we start becoming aware of levels is when the complexity begins.
Quote:


2)  a very tidy view of the world




critique 1) applies to this also. Rather, a 'tidy' view must refer to literalism, and its black and white thinking. IE the typical homophobic assertion such as 'a man is a man, and a woman is a woman!'

Quote:

3)'black and white' 'thinking'




Well this is what I mean by the above. over and over in these boards I encourage inquiry into dualistic thinking and how it causes most of the toxic sht in this world. I am rather saying that the 'predatory elite' I am looking into are ALSO trapped in 'black and white' 'thinking', because this type of thinking has a long history. it stems from solar phallic mythical thinking.
Why 'solar'?

Whereas in lunar mythology both dark and light circulate within the luminary ~ with the sun, it is just light which predominates and thus sets off in its worshiper stark contrast with 'darkness' and thus can create a psychological conceptual dualism that light and dark are not one dynamic process, and in typical solar dualistic presumption they divide 'light' from 'dark' and believe the former is superior to the latter and create myths such as the "sons of light" versus the "sons of darkness". Which is a myth/story discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls

Quote:

4) viewing one self as good & 'the other' as bad




Let me ask you: when was the last time you declared a war on others, including many innocent people, men women and children, and babies, and a large reason for this war was to vastly increase your profits? And this war not only did that, but also polluted the whole region of 'battle' with contamination from your weapons that contain  depleted uranium which carries on killing and spreading toxicity for many many hundreds and hundreds of years causing all kinds of cancers and horrific genetic damage. Is that not bad? Do I have to think of myself as a goody two shoes to know that is very evil? Just askin'
Quote:


5) getting a sense of security from such a world view,
which is partly based on ignoring one's own feelings of insecurity / uncertainty




Why should people looking into this freaky stuff find a sense of security from it? I am trying to understand your assumption here. It is more a rabbit hole when you look into this and can feel extremely disturbing once you find the beliefs the people in power believe in!
For example that they believe radiation from their nuclear bombs etc is good because it brings light into 'dark' matter.
That their mythology views the natural world as inferior to their Luciferian technomatrix, and thus want to impose the latter globally. How can I feel secure knowing these insane fiends are the mis-leaders brining about genocide and ecocide and mass extinctions of other species?
I obviously am not ignoring this insecurity because I at least am prepared to look deep into this top the best of my ability so as to bring this to the awareness of myself and of others who are willing to look for themselves.
But this is not from 'someone who knows' kind of thing. I am learning as I go along, and encourage that understanding~~ongoing learning process. This is not about becoming enlightened and a god. That is what they believe.


Edited by zzripz (01/15/17 04:26 AM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24011283 - 01/15/17 04:37 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Allow me to share an excerpt from the book Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire by Simon Baker:

Quote:

Hadrian's prosperous, peaceful empire was, above all, one of extremes of inequality. For example, slaves significantly outnumbered citizens, and this simple fact made the latter nervous. If slaves could organize, they could become a powerful collective force. Another fault line was property. The massive polity primarily served and protected the interests of landowners rather than the peasants who worked the land. While the rich few exploited the well-worn trade routes of the Mediterranean and wowed their friends at dinner parties with a menu of peacock from Arabia, the majority of the poor lived meagrely on what could be produced locally. The rights of citizens too set apart the haves from the have-nots; those without Roman citizenship could earn it, but for most that meant a lifetime of military service in the Roman army.





Does it sound like the Romans had to engage in any control methods to keep the poor poor? Did they manipulate the media (of which there were none at the time); did they promulgate propaganda? Did they really have to do anything? No, they were in power. They controlled the empire. They did not need to actively oppress people. Everything fell into, and stayed in, place, sociologically. There was no control via any narrative.




Heard of
Quote:

Bread and Circuses?

"Bread and circuses" (or bread and games; from Latin: panem et circenses) is metonymic for a superficial means of appeasement. In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the generation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through diversion; distraction; or the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace,[1] as an offered "palliative". Its originator, Juvenal, used the phrase to decry the selfishness of common people and their neglect of wider concerns.[2][3][4] The phrase also implies the erosion or ignorance of civic duty amongst the concerns of the commoner.




So what has changed from which you describe but that 'bread and circuses' are now TV, Cinema, and FAR more sophisticated means of bodymind manipulation via diversions, distractions, predictive programming etc?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24011549 - 01/15/17 09:02 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

How is keeping people entertained so that they are occupied and do not cause mischief "manipulation"? It's expediency.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24011584 - 01/15/17 09:16 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

it explains why in the little quote above.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24011592 - 01/15/17 09:22 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Yeah, I read it, it just seems like expediency to me. What society in the history of the world didn't have public events, anyway? Some of the emperors, like Augustus, personally paid for lavish, multi-day festivals so that they could preserve public approval. That seems like standard politics to me, nothing fishy or sinister. You're reading too much into it.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24011702 - 01/15/17 10:02 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yeah, I read it, it just seems like expediency to me. What society in the history of the world didn't have public events, anyway? Some of the emperors, like Augustus, personally paid for lavish, multi-day festivals so that they could preserve public approval. That seems like standard politics to me, nothing fishy or sinister. You're reading too much into it.




Quote:

it just seems like expediency to me.




expedient:

Quote:

expedient (adj.) Look up expedient at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., "advantageous, fit, proper to a purpose," from Old French expedient "useful, beneficial" (14c.) or directly from Latin expedientem (nominative expediens) "beneficial," present participle of expedire "make fit or ready, prepare" (see expedite). The noun meaning "a device adopted in an exigency, that which serves to advance a desired result" is from 1650s. Related: Expediential; expedientially (both 19c.).

        Expedient, contrivance, and device indicate artificial means of escape from difficulty or embarrassment; resource indicates natural means or something possessed; resort and shift may indicate either. [Century Dictionary]





Yes, it is very useful, beneficial, and advantageous to the ruling class who want perpetual war, and dumbness of 'the masses'. To bring about a 'desired result' they want, and plan for, and need the blind to carry it through without much questioning.
And to escape from embarrassment or difficulty when their schemes, and activities, become unveiled, exposed.

Yes this tactic has been used for a long long time, and has gotten even more sophisticated now. So much so many people are so distracted by their iphones they are getting run over on the road, etc.



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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24011720 - 01/15/17 10:07 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

In spirit, I don't disagree with a lot of the things you're saying. I hate cell phones too. But I am simply of the opinion that there is not as much intentional control from the top. I think things fall into place, and are self-reinforcing. Common interests indeed are served by the status quo's remaining as much in place as possible, but the mass of common people are just as questionable when they go for these superficial toys and don't question anything. I don't see the "top" as fundamentally more culpable for our problems than the rest.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24011808 - 01/15/17 10:32 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
In spirit, I don't disagree with a lot of the things you're saying. I hate cell phones too. But I am simply of the opinion that there is not as much intentional control from the top. I think things fall into place, and are self-reinforcing. Common interests indeed are served by the status quo's remaining as much in place as possible, but the mass of common people are just as questionable when they go for these superficial toys and don't question anything. I don't see the "top" as fundamentally more culpable for our problems than the rest.





I think then you missing a very important link: the advertising industry and its central connection with the corporacracy and thus what I am calling a predatory elite. it is all part and parcel. because what the 'masses' can be manipulated to buy and do  and NOT do (like wake up) greatly increases the wealth of the few.

That was revealed by the early so-called Master of Spin/propaganda. I will quote him from his book Propaganda again:

Quote:

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”




I don't think it can be clearer revealed than that. Not that he wrote this for the benefit of 'the masses'. IF you are of the kind of person who have no problem with unknown individuals 'understanding your mental processes' and manipulating you because you trust their authority, maybe a person will not be chilled by that confession, but to really understand the state of things in the world, I really encourage the being chilled bit, and the becoming aware necessity.

EXAMPLE: A child is fat, and eats and drinks fast food crap. S/He is put in front of TV and is bombarded with countless ads pushing her/him that crap. Are they to blame to desire it? Or is it our responsibility to get wise the tricks being pulled on them, and on ourselves? I know where I stand on this.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24011829 - 01/15/17 10:39 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Yeah, advertising is pretty unprincipled. Has been for a long time. Their primary goal is to make money, and they'll use whatever techniques they can to do it. I don't think most people are robotically programmed by it, though. It's not so black and white. If a person can't make his own decisions, I don't think you or anyone else can ever help him.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24011930 - 01/15/17 11:18 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I don't see it like that. We agree very much when you see that:

Quote:

Yeah, advertising is pretty unprincipled. Has been for a long time. Their primary goal is to make money, and they'll use whatever techniques they can to do it.




but not:
Quote:

I don't think most people are robotically programmed by it, though. It's not so black and white. If a person can't make his own decisions, I don't think you or anyone else can ever help him.




I think that there is vast sums spent on animal 'experimentation' to understand better ways to control people, and humans (remember Nazi experiments?) etc where we are looked at as glorified lab rats. And not only DO they robotically program people via their advertising, political propaganda, and occultism, but an endgame of theres is complete control via the implementation of technology into the human body, eg 'transhumanism' ('H+' for short).
As I said we are already close to this with their getting more and more people mesmerized by the virtual reality of video games and their iphones. Have you seen those recent adverts where people are trying on those '3D' headsets similar to what Neo wore in The matrix?



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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24011962 - 01/15/17 11:28 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
In other words, the common people whom zz claims are being nefariously manipulated, are complicitous to a large extent. Imho, if guilt were to be assigned, then everyone would be guilty, not just those at the top.




And sorry I missed this:

We are complicitous IF we do make effort to look and see what is going on.

From what I understand the ones in-the-know have complete contempt for the ones they see as completely blind to what they are doing, and will mock them. I have more to say on this so please watch for more added later. I am having to leave for now

# OK continuing, they mock us, and treat us like playthings, is what I understand, in extremely sadistic ways, both their victims and the victims loved ones.

I have not seen the film The Cabin in the Woods yet, but want to. I think it is about people being made to be playthings.

I like the saying ' a great storyteller has to walk in everyone's shoes'. This doesn't mean you condone evil, but does mean the playing into the role of say a serial killer, and/or people who see evil as not evil as we understand it but as something to be embraced to be 'free of it'.

I mean just say that was a possibility, people who would believe that, then you have to imagine being like that to understand it. Doing so gives you an insight into that worldview.


Edited by zzripz (01/15/17 02:37 PM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24012018 - 01/15/17 11:47 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Putin's  Russians exploited storytelling and fake news to help Trump.

Besides that one which was an intensive operation with tangible results, I don't see any particular elite doing what you say.

Naturally we have Coca Cola and Santa Claus, and that whole world of advertising and google ad sense to boot.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24012350 - 01/15/17 02:41 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Putin's  Russians exploited storytelling and fake news to help Trump.




where is the evidence for this?
Quote:


Besides that one which was an intensive operation with tangible results, I don't see any particular elite doing what you say.




Like I say, I have not seen any evidence to support this?

Quote:

Naturally we have Coca Cola and Santa Claus, and that whole world of advertising and google ad sense to boot.




Coca Cola sucks, but I do not see the harm in the story of Santa Claus. I believed all that as a kid and it gave me a real sense of the magic of reality. it is also quite blatantly revealing psychedelic mushroom roots.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24012395 - 01/15/17 03:06 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)



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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24012533 - 01/15/17 04:12 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
wait a minute, you lack evidence about Putin puttin Trump uP?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/opinion/trumps-pivotal-russian-test.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/us/politics/russia-hack-report.html
etc. etc.




Which would then, if true, (and I am not claiming it is) would mean, for you, that the establishment here in the West do not want Trump for president, hence they are pissed off Putin helped him win?


Edited by zzripz (01/15/17 04:13 PM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24012781 - 01/15/17 06:16 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

More like the establishment in Russia is the current regime altogether.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24013728 - 01/16/17 03:24 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

if this 'thing' I am attempting to unveil is anything, it is more transnational


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24016583 - 01/17/17 05:42 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

So how to understand the Trump story then on a subtextual way?

But first, how are many conditioned to view him and the system In a literalist way? IE, Donald Trump, a reality TV billionaire--'your fired'--celeb with a funny hairdo, 'politically incorrect', is suddenly your choice for President of the United States of America...?

:strokebeard:

It seems his role is a man for 'the people' and against the 'New World Order'

:strokebeard:

No matter what shenanigans he is claimed to have got up to he can do no wrong in their eyes, and he even bragged, when speeching for the top job of president, that even if he shot someone on the street, he still would be seen to be alright by his followers (or words to that effect). How super confident is that?

:strokebeard:

Subtext


Part of their subtext are numbers, both numerology and gematria (where letters of alphabets are numbered)

Why would 'they', a predatory elite, use numbers to code events (and other reasons), etc? Before wondering this, or throwing this out as 'conspiracy theory', play with it and learn the patterns and meanings they 'may' be using. The subtext of their stories:

Apparently Donald Trump's birthday is June 14, 1946

If you use this calculator you find that on Trump's first say as President of the U.S, it will be exactly 70 years, 7 months, and 7 weeks duration from his date of birth to that day of 21st January 2017. Dropping the zero thus gives triple 7s:

777

And this is also 5777 on the Hebrew calendar. And if you sum the date of presidency, eg 21/1/2017 eg 2+1+1+2+1+7 = 14 (1+4+=5 . So there we have all the same numbers as year of Hebrew date. The duration of 777 and date = 5

is someone trying to tell 'us' something? 'For those who understandeth'?

So what is the relevance OF 7 7 7?

Well did you know that the London Bombings, which were a follow-on European 'war on terror' atrocity post '9/11'? This bombing happened on July 7th 2005. So let us break the date down:

July is 7th month, the day was 7th day, and the years digits when added eg 2 + 5 = 7, hence there is the 777 signature. Part of the subtext of that terrible story!

In Hebrew gematria 'order out of chaos' = 777



Now, 'Order out of Chaos' derives from the Latin 'ORDO AB CHAO' which is the motto of the top ranking Freemasonic 33rd degree of initiation, and in the next video presentation you will see how the mass media uses this number, 33, (as it does 777) as subtext to their stories!



Edited by zzripz (01/17/17 05:48 AM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24016782 - 01/17/17 08:46 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Lol numerology. Don't you think a predatory elite would be intelligent enough to use a secret message method that all the crazies aren't already experts in?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24016799 - 01/17/17 08:54 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Oh shit wait. 9/11. Take 9 - 1 - 1 and you get 7. Three of the planes reached their destinations. So 7 3 times is 777. Coincidence?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24016818 - 01/17/17 09:06 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Oh shit wait. 9/11. Take 9 - 1 - 1 and you get 7. Three of the planes reached their destinations. So 7 3 times is 777. Coincidence?




Except that zero planes were used at four destination points, so zero x 4 is still zero.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24016867 - 01/17/17 09:31 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Wha? Alright 9/11/2001. Add the year 2+1 = 3. So we're back at 777. It just doesn't end.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24017162 - 01/17/17 11:41 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

your sums make no sense to me. Care to explain them?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24017168 - 01/17/17 11:44 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Lol numerology. Don't you think a predatory elite would be intelligent enough to use a secret message method that all the crazies aren't already experts in?




So your implying I am a 'crazie'?

Do you rate your mum, dad, girlfriend, boyfriend, friends, etc as intelligent? Are any of them familiar with this do you know?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24017187 - 01/17/17 11:50 AM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
your sums make no sense to me. Care to explain them?




Lol, I'm just randomly adding numbers together until I reach the conclusion I want, same as you. Also the first day of Trump is the 20th not the 21st, so your numerology fails.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24017588 - 01/17/17 02:35 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Oh shit wait. 9/11. Take 9 - 1 - 1 and you get 7. Three of the planes reached their destinations. So 7 3 times is 777. Coincidence?

Wha? Alright 9/11/2001. Add the year 2+1 = 3. So we're back at 777. It just doesn't end.

Lol, I'm just randomly adding numbers together until I reach the conclusion I want, same as you. Also the first day of Trump is the 20th not the 21st, so your numerology fails.




well how do you know you haven't just found out another layer(s)?

As I see it, your approach ridicules straight off and so you stop looking. That is not very scientific, or inquisitive.

As far as I am aware Trump's inauguration is from 19th - 21st? He is only President on 20th for part of the day. His real first full day as president is the 21st. And 21 is 7+7+7 also.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24017693 - 01/17/17 03:18 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Numerology is in no way scientific. It's complete nonsense.

Inauguration day is the 20th. That's his first day as president. You can't just say 'nah ignore that I'm going to arbitrarily consider his first full day so that my numerology makes sense'.

Aside from that, wtf are you on about? Inauguration day is the same day every four years. You think the predatory elite somehow decided Trump would be president this time just so his birthday would be exactly the right amount of time from the day after his inauguration? For what reason? The shit numerologists come out with makes no sense whatsoever.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24017705 - 01/17/17 03:22 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Oh shit wait. 9/11. Take 9 - 1 - 1 and you get 7. Three of the planes reached their destinations. So 7 3 times is 777. Coincidence?

Wha? Alright 9/11/2001. Add the year 2+1 = 3. So we're back at 777. It just doesn't end.

Lol, I'm just randomly adding numbers together until I reach the conclusion I want, same as you. Also the first day of Trump is the 20th not the 21st, so your numerology fails.




well how do you know you haven't just found out another layer(s)?

As I see it, your approach ridicules straight off and so you stop looking. That is not very scientific, or inquisitive.

As far as I am aware Trump's inauguration is from 19th - 21st? He is only President on 20th for part of the day. His real first full day as president is the 21st. And 21 is 7+7+7 also.




0*19 + .5*20 + 1*21 = 31 * 3 = 93 which was one of the 9/11 flight numbers. :eek:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24017861 - 01/17/17 04:28 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Numerology is in no way scientific. It's complete nonsense.

Inauguration day is the 20th. That's his first day as president. You can't just say 'nah ignore that I'm going to arbitrarily consider his first full day so that my numerology makes sense'.

Aside from that, wtf are you on about? Inauguration day is the same day every four years. You think the predatory elite somehow decided Trump would be president this time just so his birthday would be exactly the right amount of time from the day after his inauguration? For what reason? The shit numerologists come out with makes no sense whatsoever.




You jump to conclusions.

I never meant numerology is scientific. I meant your approach to looking into it is not scientific, or inquisitive, or even skeptical, in the original meaning of that term.

You have already made your mind up!

siiigh, his first full day is the 21st, and it is not my numerology.

Quote:

Aside from that, wtf are you on about? Inauguration day is the same day every four years. You think the predatory elite somehow decided Trump would be president this time just so his birthday would be exactly the right amount of time from the day after his inauguration? For what reason? The shit numerologists come out with makes no sense whatsoever.




Yes I am saying that.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24017866 - 01/17/17 04:31 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

Oh shit wait. 9/11. Take 9 - 1 - 1 and you get 7. Three of the planes reached their destinations. So 7 3 times is 777. Coincidence?

Wha? Alright 9/11/2001. Add the year 2+1 = 3. So we're back at 777. It just doesn't end.

Lol, I'm just randomly adding numbers together until I reach the conclusion I want, same as you. Also the first day of Trump is the 20th not the 21st, so your numerology fails.




well how do you know you haven't just found out another layer(s)?

As I see it, your approach ridicules straight off and so you stop looking. That is not very scientific, or inquisitive.

As far as I am aware Trump's inauguration is from 19th - 21st? He is only President on 20th for part of the day. His real first full day as president is the 21st. And 21 is 7+7+7 also.




0*19 + .5*20 + 1*21 = 31 * 3 = 93 which was one of the 9/11 flight numbers. :eek:





I am not understanding this bit:
Quote:

0*19 + .5*20 + 1*21 = 31 * 3




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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24017884 - 01/17/17 04:38 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
chicken and egg:
this complex issue has more than one interpretation:
when intoxicated on mushrooms, or some other brain state modification (including dreaming/meditation/yoga/prayer etc.), a person may have a vision - a highly detailed tableau in which figures writhe and cavort fiendishly - temptingly - exquisitely - horribly.

mind can produce such experiences/visions without direct prompting from any dominating figure(s) or forces.

Moreover, paintings like the temptation of saint anthony, or buddha facing mara, provide a portrayal of the human mind struggling to be consistent in the face of extreme distraction.

I think you are off base with these examples, although manipulation is and has been afoot in many areas to greater and lesser degrees. To achieve the level of manipulation you describe a KGB would have had to exist that was 100 times as powerful than it is today.




Agreed.  Also, stories are told to control behavior in the babes, because they are naive and innocent/inexperienced.  ie. Boogey Man in the woods tale around the campfire at night ensures to some extent that they will not venture out into the woods at 11pm and get lost and eaten by a bear - control through a story via fear of the unknown - some parts of religion and politics are very much like this only greater, but for those that see through it generally its mostly for the greater good. .


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #24018025 - 01/17/17 05:51 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
I never meant numerology is scientific. I meant your approach to looking into it is not scientific, or inquisitive, or even skeptical, in the original meaning of that term.




It doesn't take much thinking power to realize that numerology is just coincidence with delusions of grandeur.

Quote:

Yes I am saying that.




Lol, that's completely ridiculous. You didn't answer for what reason your predatory elite would do such a thing?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24018141 - 01/17/17 06:38 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
I never meant numerology is scientific. I meant your approach to looking into it is not scientific, or inquisitive, or even skeptical, in the original meaning of that term.




It doesn't take much thinking power to realize that numerology is just coincidence with delusions of grandeur.

Quote:

Yes I am saying that.




Lol, that's completely ridiculous. You didn't answer for what reason your predatory elite would do such a thing?





I think you have misunderstanding. I am not claiming numerology and gematria are to be followed and believed. I am looking at what they believe.
You sound then like a coincidence theorist if you mean it is all just coincidence with no method. But when you look deeper into this you see different.

Like I say, you cannot research this subtle subject because you have already concluded it is crazy!

Why would they do what? Plan for Trump to be president? Same reason past presidents are chosen. To fit their agenda.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24018357 - 01/17/17 07:53 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Dates of random events corresponding to vague numerological ideas is definitely coincidence. One can easily cherry pick events and manipulate numbers to draw conclusions. It's called confirmation bias.

So did they pick Trump to fit their agenda or did they pick him so that his birthday would have a numerological connection with the day after his inauguration? What reason do they have for picking someone who has a numerological connection? Surely they know that the conspiracy theorists of the world are expert number manipulators. Why would they pick a secret message system that is so easily broken? All this planning of events just to have a supposed subtext of 'order from chaos'. None of it makes sense.

You should probably do a little less research into numerology and a little more into logic.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24019107 - 01/18/17 03:56 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Dates of random events corresponding to vague numerological ideas is definitely coincidence. One can easily cherry pick events and manipulate numbers to draw conclusions. It's called confirmation bias.

So did they pick Trump to fit their agenda or did they pick him so that his birthday would have a numerological connection with the day after his inauguration? What reason do they have for picking someone who has a numerological connection? Surely they know that the conspiracy theorists of the world are expert number manipulators. Why would they pick a secret message system that is so easily broken? All this planning of events just to have a supposed subtext of 'order from chaos'. None of it makes sense.

You should probably do a little less research into numerology and a little more into logic.




Quote:

You should probably do a little less research into numerology and a little more into logic.




And you should maybe pay more attention to the thread of this thread so you don't get too lost down the rabbit hole.
I have mentioned above about mythos and logos. You cannot delve into this slippery subject believing all you need is logic, as though logic is supreme and superior over mythos.
You have to understand dynamic interplay between mythos and logos. This is how they can be hidden in plain sight, because they have got 'intellectually educated' people like yourself so in worship of 'Logic' that just the exploration of this subject seems absolutely crazy and 'illogical' to you. Am I right or am I right?...Yet, yet, something is pulling you towards it like fly to a trap. LOL

Quote:

Dates of random events corresponding to vague numerological ideas is definitely coincidence. One can easily cherry pick events and manipulate numbers to draw conclusions. It's called confirmation bias.




'definitely coincidence'. See what you say, and your approach? You've already made you mind up, and yet I bet you know only a fraction of what they do.

Quote:


So did they pick Trump to fit their agenda or did they pick him so that his birthday would have a numerological connection with the day after his inauguration? What reason do they have for picking someone who has a numerological connection? Surely they know that the conspiracy theorists of the world are expert number manipulators. Why would they pick a secret message system that is so easily broken? All this planning of events just to have a supposed subtext of 'order from chaos'. None of it makes sense.




None of it makes sense to you. But it is they who believe in all this.

Why do you think that all the three Bush's, grandpa, daddy, and son were all picked to be members of the Skull and Bones SECRET society? Both senior AND junior Bush's became presidents of the United States of America. Coincident??

So what's my point? I don't think Trump just randomly got his sorry self into the Whitehouse. Look at this video. Checkout the subtext!



Edited by zzripz (01/18/17 03:58 AM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24019402 - 01/18/17 09:07 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
None of it makes sense to you. But it is they who believe in all this.





You are the only one who believes 'they believe all this'.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24019424 - 01/18/17 09:17 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
None of it makes sense to you. But it is they who believe in all this.





You are the only one who believes 'they believe all this'.




No, if you think your using logic then that sentence is wrong. I may be the only one in this thread, but obviously I am not the only researcher who believes 'they believe all this'.

Did you watch the video I just linked you to?

What are your thoughts on it?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24019428 - 01/18/17 09:18 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Researchers, lol. That's my thoughts.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24019437 - 01/18/17 09:24 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
Researchers, lol. That's my thoughts.




so your purpose here is to troll? If you haven't got anything sensible to add either obey the rules or go away.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24019516 - 01/18/17 09:59 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

The number of people who agree with you is not relevant to the fact that the reasoning you are using is not logical.

What are my thought about a mattress commercial? Not much.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #24019570 - 01/18/17 10:23 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
I have mentioned above about mythos and logos. You cannot delve into this slippery subject believing all you need is logic, as though logic is supreme and superior over mythos.




Myth basically translates to 'making shit up' which is fine in its place, but does not lead to valid claims about objective reality. For that you need evidence and logical reasoning from that evidence.

Quote:

You have to understand dynamic interplay between mythos and logos. This is how they can be hidden in plain sight, because they have got 'intellectually educated' people like yourself so in worship of 'Logic' that just the exploration of this subject seems absolutely crazy and 'illogical' to you. Am I right or am I right?...Yet, yet, something is pulling you towards it like fly to a trap. LOL




This is just complete nonsense. So now the valuing of logic is a conspiracy? Fucking asinine.

Quote:

None of it makes sense to you. But it is they who believe in all this.




They believe what? Do they think that setting up events in a certain way to have numerological significance will cause things to happen in some occult way? Or are they just pointlessly sending messages via subtext?

If the former, then apparently you think that a bunch of delusional morons are pulling the strings of major events the world over, which is totally implausible. Not even a group of sane people could exert so much power as to do these things. People and events are too chaotic.

Quote:

Why do you think that all the three Bush's, grandpa, daddy, and son were all picked to be members of the Skull and Bones SECRET society? Both senior AND junior Bush's became presidents of the United States of America. Coincident??




Yes, coincidence. What about all the skull and bones members who weren't presidents? What about all the presidents who weren't skull and bones members? Confirmation bias.

Quote:

So what's my point? I don't think Trump just randomly got his sorry self into the Whitehouse. Look at this video. Checkout the subtext!




A mattress commercial:burke:

GTFO buddy.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24019662 - 01/18/17 11:07 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
The number of people who agree with you is not relevant to the fact that the reasoning you are using is not logical.

What are my thought about a mattress commercial? Not much.





...exactly :rolleyes:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24019755 - 01/18/17 11:45 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
The number of people who agree with you is not relevant to the fact that the reasoning you are using is not logical.

What are my thought about a mattress commercial? Not much.




The 9 11 reference was interesting in the sheep(le?) numbering.

I am pretty sure Kate Bush is in on this too.



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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24019778 - 01/18/17 11:55 AM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
I have mentioned above about mythos and logos. You cannot delve into this slippery subject believing all you need is logic, as though logic is supreme and superior over mythos.




Myth basically translates to 'making shit up' which is fine in its place, but does not lead to valid claims about objective reality. For that you need evidence and logical reasoning from that evidence.

Quote:

You have to understand dynamic interplay between mythos and logos. This is how they can be hidden in plain sight, because they have got 'intellectually educated' people like yourself so in worship of 'Logic' that just the exploration of this subject seems absolutely crazy and 'illogical' to you. Am I right or am I right?...Yet, yet, something is pulling you towards it like fly to a trap. LOL




This is just complete nonsense. So now the valuing of logic is a conspiracy? Fucking asinine.

Quote:

None of it makes sense to you. But it is they who believe in all this.




They believe what? Do they think that setting up events in a certain way to have numerological significance will cause things to happen in some occult way? Or are they just pointlessly sending messages via subtext?

If the former, then apparently you think that a bunch of delusional morons are pulling the strings of major events the world over, which is totally implausible. Not even a group of sane people could exert so much power as to do these things. People and events are too chaotic.

Quote:

Why do you think that all the three Bush's, grandpa, daddy, and son were all picked to be members of the Skull and Bones SECRET society? Both senior AND junior Bush's became presidents of the United States of America. Coincident??




Yes, coincidence. What about all the skull and bones members who weren't presidents? What about all the presidents who weren't skull and bones members? Confirmation bias.

Quote:

So what's my point? I don't think Trump just randomly got his sorry self into the Whitehouse. Look at this video. Checkout the subtext!




A mattress commercial:burke:

GTFO buddy.




Quote:

Myth basically translates to 'making shit up' which is fine in its place, but does not lead to valid claims about objective reality. For that you need evidence and logical reasoning from that evidence.




Which shows you know extremely little about how mythological text and symbolism is constructed which uses logic. In order to create levels of meaning in text, and using numerology and gematria there has to be a logical sense also, obviously, even if that doesn't make sense to your version of logic. This is why I mean logos and mythos are never really separate at all. Only in your mindset does logic totally override myths, as though mythos is now dead. That way of thinking is dangerous because your mythmaking willy nilly becomes unconscious. This is how materialism and the notion of a dead world has come about. it is a toxic myth, but is unacknowledged as being myth and is assumed to be a superior logic which now is the only way of understanding reality.

Quote:

This is just complete nonsense. So now the valuing of logic is a conspiracy? Fucking asinine.




More so ignore-ance. You use the term asinine.


Quote:


asinine (adj.) Look up asinine at Dictionary.com
    c. 1600, "obstinate, stupid," from Latin asininus "stupid," literally "like an ass," from asinus "ass," also "dolt, blockhead" (see ass (n.1)). The literal sense in English is recorded from 1620s.




Hmmm sounds like your approach. it is not even questioning. When I presented that video, any geniune attitude from someone not familiar with a subject would for example say 'well what is it supposed to mean according to you'. But you shout how logical you are, and yet do not even ask questions. because like said, you are already obstinately assured you know this is all crazy.

Quote:

They believe what? Do they think that setting up events in a certain way to have numerological significance will cause things to happen in some occult way? Or are they just pointlessly sending messages via subtext?

If the former, then apparently you think that a bunch of delusional morons are pulling the strings of major events the world over, which is totally implausible. Not even a group of sane people could exert so much power as to do these things. People and events are too chaotic.




Like I say, they must do, or else they wouldn't do this occult sht would they. I do not do it. I don't plan my day, week, life with numbers, and symbols, do I? But I am looking at how they are doing it. Becoming aware of their subtext, of the patterns they use.
Apparently Freemasons use secret hanshakes with each other to communicate they are part of the same club. I don't do those hanshakes, but know about that. See the difference, logically?

Yes they are delusional morons, but they do what they do and are destroying everything. Of course they are not in control with everything, but are behind world-changing events such as false flags and psyops (psychological operations). I take it you've heard of propaganda, yeah?

Quote:

What about all the skull and bones members who weren't presidents? What about all the presidents who weren't skull and bones members? Confirmation bias.




I was making the point that it isn't random people who get to be presidents. They are usually connected with secret societies, and have occult stuff connected with their names, etc.
List of Presidents of the United States who were Freemasons
Quote:


A mattress commercial:burke:

GTFO buddy.



Like I say, it is your attitude which is the one blocking yourself from further inquiry, because if your not willing to look and ask questions how can you even learn. How can you learn to even argue against it?

think of a tutor telling her students to study 'conspiracy theory' so they can present two sides of an argument. the ones who said 'ahhhh conspiracy theory is too crazy, I am not gonna bother evn looking at it, or ask questions about it'. Then that's it isn't it? You won't even know what you are against!


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24020423 - 01/18/17 03:35 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Now, it is very interesting that this mainstream newspaper is at least noticing number patterns....? YAY :congrats:

Quote:

"11/9 is the new 9/11": Americans liken Trump's win to most devastating day in country's history
The similarity in dates hasn't gone unnoticed as US citizens call the election result "America's worst nightmare"

Devastated Americans have likened the US Presidential election result to the most tragic day in the country's history, 9/11.

The date of the announcement that billionaire businessman Donald Trump will be the next President has not gone unnoticed by US citizens.

November 9 is written as 11/9 in the USA - the reverse of September 11 or 9/11.

And many are comparing the two with some calling it "America's worst nightmare" - worse than the death of 3,000 citizens on that day 15 years ago.


emphasis mine

Ironically the paper does not realize this is not just accidental, coincidental, or even synchronistic but rather a deliberate occult code.
And the video I linked to in previous post proves that!


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24020696 - 01/18/17 05:07 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Another very important thing I wish to stress, even though I have possibly said it before in this thread:

IF you disregard your mythical dimensions which go very deep, and accentuate 'logic' as though it is your sole superior being, and reality, rather than a tool which is in unison with a mythical sense of reality, then these toxic mythmakers take advantage of your unconsciousness and manipulate your dreaming mind. That is exactly what is going on! And this is why it is really important to become aware how they are doing this, not only in advertising and propaganda but in their other occultist doings.

Of course this makes us ask the question(s) so what is a benign story that is not the insane ones these people push which seem all about love of perpetual warfare, exploitation of others, including other species, and ecocide?

Looking into their subtext/behind their facade you begin finding out what really fuels their beliefs and actions.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24020917 - 01/18/17 06:29 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

You've gone off the deep end. It's totally ridiculous to claim that a bunch of occultists are controlling world events to this level.

Quote:

zzripz said:
And the video I linked to in previous post proves that!




You don't know what constitutes proof.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24021999 - 01/19/17 05:23 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
You've gone off the deep end. It's totally ridiculous to claim that a bunch of occultists are controlling world events to this level.

Quote:

zzripz said:
And the video I linked to in previous post proves that!




You don't know what constitutes proof.




your 'argument' is the epitome of ignore ~ ance.

For HOW do you even know the video is what I say unless you take time to even ask what I mean regarding it. Rather you are aloof to even delving into this subject. You ignore what is being presented to you to study, because you have already made your mind up:

Quote:

You've gone off the deep end. It's totally ridiculous to claim that a bunch of occultists are controlling world events to this level.




How do you know this if you fear looking into it to see if you are right?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24022011 - 01/19/17 05:37 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

proth said:
We've been in an information age for some time...
How can someone exploit and control you in such an age unless you allow yourself to be exploited and controlled by not seeking to be informed...?

Do myopic greedy and powerful people vie for control over the lessor minded individual of society? Yes... But isn't that how its always been? The true enemy is oneself. If you don't respect or seek the truth, you lay privy to lies and garbage.

The rest are just details..




Yes we are in the so-called 'information age' and people have at their hands such an overwhelming possibility of research into all kinds of things, and yet many do not even try to. I ask why? Is it fear. Is it some kind of propaganda trick/spell put on them by clever authoritarian groups to make them not look at alternative theories to information?

I think so.

As has been explained above, this is exactly why the term 'conspiracy theory' came to the public mind via mass media soon after the JFK assassination, as a way to make people police themselves and others from investigating off the beaten track/away from the official story.
Now they are also using the term 'fake news'--VERY ironically--to do the same.
Can you not see this psyop?

Quote:

How can someone exploit and control you in such an age unless you allow yourself to be exploited and controlled by not seeking to be informed...?




That sounds very neat and easy peasy, and is quite naive. For it is underestimating the EFFORTS they put into controlling others, via their advertising techniques, where they spend millions and millions to do so, as well as propaganda, religious and political,.
and the whole subworld of occultism.
They torture animals to discover newer and newer ways to do the same to people!

However you are right if you then dig what I am doing. I am encouraging you to LOOK and question. Authoritarianism hates questions, and questioning, because they are trying to impose their stories on you and depend on blind acceptance or false choices which keep you in their loop.

Quote:

Do myopic greedy and powerful people vie for control over the lessor minded individual of society? Yes... But isn't that how its always been? The true enemy is oneself. If you don't respect or seek the truth, you lay privy to lies and garbage.




What do you mean by 'always'? 5,000 years, 10, 000? To mean 'always' as in everyone at all times forever much suffer this shit, then that alone is defeatist, and is a myth they love you to believe. That your oppression is inevitable. This is why they have pushed and funded stories like social darwinism.


Edited by zzripz (01/19/17 05:39 AM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24022020 - 01/19/17 05:41 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

proth said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
Another very important thing I wish to stress, even though I have possibly said it before in this thread:

IF you disregard your mythical dimensions which go very deep, and accentuate 'logic' as though it is your sole superior being, and reality, rather than a tool which is in unison with a mythical sense of reality, then these toxic mythmakers take advantage of your unconsciousness and manipulate your dreaming mind. That is exactly what is going on! And this is why it is really important to become aware how they are doing this, not only in advertising and propaganda but in their other occultist doings.

Of course this makes us ask the question(s) so what is a benign story that is not the insane ones these people push which seem all about love of perpetual warfare, exploitation of others, including other species, and ecocide?

Looking into their subtext/behind their facade you begin finding out what really fuels their beliefs and actions.




A fool reaches into the abyss in exchange for earthly gains.
The abyss reaches back for something far more valuable.

Mythically speaking, the details of such foolery should not be of concern to the well-directed except to avoid visits and exchanges themselves. As for its presence and somewhat dominance in this world, that lies along a more ultimate progression and resolution. The predator of one species is the prey of another.




Well ultimately these people I refer to seem to want 'immortality' and see nature as a 'murderer'. And yet they belong to death cults like Skull and Bones. They're insane.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24022112 - 01/19/17 06:42 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

my dreams are pretty much exploiting the natural storytelling genius...whenever i have an interesting one, my brain blocks it out from my memory. shit-fuck-piss-balls.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24022362 - 01/19/17 09:11 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

This is interesting. These people belong to secret societies, and a famous one, which generations of the Bush family went to, grandpa, senior and junior Bush's, is known as Skull and Bones, and there is also a number associated with it, 322. Now there are more associations to do with this nuimber I will go into later, but regarding their belief in 'immortality' dig this:

Quote:

Genesis 3:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”




So, if so, where does this belief in/story of 'immortality' come from. This means looking at patriarchal history and its solar-phallic mythos.

First off, how is this term 'immortal' defined? its etymology:


Quote:


immortal (adj.) Look up immortal at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., "deathless," from Latin immortalis "deathless, undying" (of gods), "imperishable, endless" (of fame, love, work, etc.), from assimilated form of in- "not, opposite of" (see in- (1)) + mortalis "mortal" (see mortal (adj.)). In reference to fame, literature, etc., "unceasing, destined to endure forever, never to be forgotten, lasting a long time," attested from early 15c. (also in classical Latin). As a noun, "an immortal being," from 1680s.




deathless?

In its solar-phallic mythic interpretation, the belief is dualistic. Dualism divides 'death' from 'life' and assumes you can have one without the other. Not understanding it is a dynamic.

It is comical how such groups, many who have great unimaginable wealth and power, and are greedy for more and more, would inevitably embrace a story which promised them more and more unending wealth and power, because for them death in its fullest sense would mean the end of their fat greedy grabbing take take take self, true? But they want exclusive power whether material power or 'spiritual'.

They love to see their lineage connected with the ancient mystery schools, which also mostly were solar-phallic. This theor stories claimed nature and the body were evil traps, and women seducers keeping the evil game going, and initiation was escape from all of them into am immortal spiritual realm.

But now the belief has morphed into creating an 'immortal' 'body' here via occultist and technological knowledge and power, and this is where the idea of 'transhumanism' (H+ for short) comes from. This story is of course is very similar to the Christian story of changing nature into a spiritualized version where 'death' is conquered, and where dead bodies all begin to resurrect as 'glorified' new bods, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb etc etc.

Terrence McKenna who was a psychedelic transhumanist went on about the possibility/story of downloading consciousness one's into a computer and gaining immortality.


Edited by zzripz (01/19/17 09:19 AM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24022414 - 01/19/17 09:31 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
For HOW do you even know the video is what I say unless you take time to even ask what I mean regarding it. Rather you are aloof to even delving into this subject. You ignore what is being presented to you to study, because you have already made your mind up:




Go ahead, enlighten us as to how mattresses and CGI sheep are occultist symbols. Are all the other mattress commercials with those same CGI sheep also occultist, or just the one with Donald Trump so you can shoehorn it into your narrative?

Quote:

How do you know this if you fear looking into it to see if you are right?




I don't fear looking into it; I just have better things to do with my time. Of course it is possible that a bunch of occultists control world events, but the likelihood is almost zero. People are too incompetent to do such a thing. The world is too chaotic for it to be plausible that a predatory elite controls things to such a degree that they can line up world events so that their dates have obscure occult significance.

Quote:

But now the belief has morphed into creating an 'immortal' 'body' here via occultist and technological knowledge and power, and this is where the idea of 'transhumanism' (H+ for short) comes from




Transhumanism did not come from your network of secret societies. People don't want to die. The pining for immortality is not unique to supposed occultist elites, it's basically a basic human trait.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24022545 - 01/19/17 10:10 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

I would like to know why you think this is so important. Lets pretend that you are right. What good is knowing all this stuff. Are you better off than all the people who don't know about it?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24022748 - 01/19/17 11:49 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
I would like to know why you think this is so important. Lets pretend that you are right. What good is knowing all this stuff. Are you better off than all the people who don't know about it?




Good question!

I find it hard to understand why others, especially those who are familiar with psychedelics aren't passionate about all of this. And yet I have met with a taboo silence amongst the psychedelic community, including big names and their followers, when trying to encourage discussion about it. I have wondered why this would be, and have some ideas which I may go into later.

it is AS important as finding out why it is I am addicted to fast food, and am overweight and prone to disease (which I am not btw. touch wood. I hate the crap and am not fat), or why my kid is (if I had one). I would want to explore all the tricks being pulled to get me and/or my beloved child to eat and drink sht.

Same is so for smoking. I already am aware of how Edward Bernays, after being approached by the Tobacco industry, got more women to smoke, including in public. Through various ways he inculcated an IMAGE/story that smoking cigarettes meant that women doing so were strong liberated women. Think about how sick that is for a moment. Getting them hopelessly addicted to nicotine which will age them, and make them unhealthy and prone to cancer and heart disease, is being made to be liberating!

So my point here is that to thus become aware of what is deliberately being aimed at the unconscious is the actual liberation, because by becoming aware of their tricks you undermine them. They cease having an unconscious power over you. You see through their black magic.

by questioning their stories you are using BOTH your logic and imagination to liberate yourself from their power.

Same is so for any propaganda like the one that tries to make people accept their wars, and send their children to their wars to be physically and mentally and spiritually damaged, and even killed.

Same is so for their occultism which is continuous with all I mention above, but on an even deeper level. because many people will accept that their are tricks the ad people use (but will not go to deep looking into them), and political propaganda, but mention of this occultism will receive disbelief. They think it is crazy talk.

In organized religion they preached about the 'Devil' which many Christians believe in to this day. Instead of questioning all of that they would let the fear of that character make them do all sorts, even torturing their own children because they believed them possessed of evil spirits.

So when you see the danger of these predatory attacks on the dreaming mind, and what can happen as a result, and this includes our alienation from the natural world which threatens other species and the very ecosphere all life depends on, then you realize the urgency of going as deep as you can so as to find out how deep you are being played.

This research shouldn't be done in a paranoid way, but in the spirit of inquiry and love of wisdom. This means questioning all you feel the need to question.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24022763 - 01/19/17 11:58 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

I quit smoking and I lost weight. I am already way ahead of you.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24022921 - 01/19/17 01:15 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

what you don't get is that this is what all human culture is  --- conditioning
always has been
always will be

it's why yogis meditate in caves and ashrams - to get away from the bullshit
and professors hang out in universities

the hippies started some new stuff
you know like long hair
then the main stream adopted it
'culture' and society are sort of like an amorphous creature, blob, or mold

now people play football and it's known to cause brain damage
but they still think it's great
no story is causing this
the facts are in all the big news outlets
but like an amorphous mindless blob of instincts the masses are happy with their sport

you can't force people to be enlightened / awake / intelligent / whatever


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24023129 - 01/19/17 02:44 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
I quit smoking and I lost weight. I am already way ahead of you.




how dya know?


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24023160 - 01/19/17 02:58 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
what you don't get is that this is what all human culture is  --- conditioning
always has been
always will be




I view that idea as the story you tell yourself which I question. it is like the story of social darwinism, and is believed in and then you become entrenched in that perspective.
Quote:


it's why yogis meditate in caves and ashrams - to get away from the bullshit
and professors hang out in universities




I question yogis and professors. IE the Eastern meditation trip. I am suspicious of all that, as I am of academia and profs.
Quote:


the hippies started some new stuff
you know like long hair
then the main stream adopted it
'culture' and society are sort of like an amorphous creature, blob, or mold





Well the hippies discovered psychedelics, and found the culture they were living in all grey and dead and bland, and got smitten by the more colourful Eastern style with its trippy-looking Krishnas, and promise of all-the-time-trippy-bliss. But I think this was deliberate infiltration of these ideas by the groups I am trying to inveil in this thread. IE it was a phony choice offered by New Age groups which are of same ilk as what the elite are into. All about becoming 'enlightened'/becoming a god.

Quote:

now people play football and it's known to cause brain damage
but they still think it's great
no story is causing this
the facts are in all the big news outlets
but like an amorphous mindless blob of instincts the masses are happy with their sport




You tend to speak for LOTS of others, as though they are some mindless amorphous blob...! let me ask you: in your life, have you never found out something, and thought eg, 'sht, how could I not have known THAT?' and then you change because of that info. OR, you find out something, but still resist change until at a later time?

Quote:

you can't force people to be enlightened / awake / intelligent / whatever




I don't use term 'enlightened' cause it's a loaded term. It is mopre like 'oh, I have found out this interesting, important and surprising thing. I want to share with others and see what they think.'
But this is not ME thinking 'I am ultra aware and now I am gonna preach the truth'. It is rather more an ongoing learning experience where others will surprise me, however.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24023581 - 01/19/17 05:50 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

I am reminded of this quote:
Quote:


"It's not a matter of what is true that counts but a matter of what is perceived to be true." --Henry Kissinger




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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24023692 - 01/19/17 06:19 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Lol, you berate me for not asking what you see in the video, so when I do ask, you ignore it. Why must you keep doing such?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24023713 - 01/19/17 06:27 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

This is more like a lecture that a debate.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #24024095 - 01/19/17 08:32 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
....

Quote:

now people play football and it's known to cause brain damage
but they still think it's great
no story is causing this
the facts are in all the big news outlets
but like an amorphous mindless blob of instincts the masses are happy with their sport




You tend to speak for LOTS of others, as though they are some mindless amorphous blob...! ….
.....




lets look at this part above
1) I speak for no one
2) I state some facts:

About people doing something dumb of their own free will.
There are numerous examples of folks engaging in even more brutal customs throughout history, regardless of time or place,
that have nothing to do with a nefarious controlling elite programing them subliminally.
Bullfights, fox hunting, cock fights, dog fights, gladiators, bare knuckle boxing, public executions, the use of stocks, lynchings, witch hunts, burning at the stake, all the way back to stoning and crucifixion and this stuff is only the tip of the iceberg of recorded history.

It sounds good to say all people are equal
or have equal rights, or should be free, or have buddha nature.

But if we look at intelligence ( I know it's not a perfect measure - but it does measure something meaningful) we find that it is distributed on a bell curve - in other words by definition 50% of us are below average. I suspect if we were to measure (hypothetically) other traits (that have to do with our better natures) such as for example: sensitivity, kindness, generosity, etc. we would find a similar distribution. Thus a large segment of the population has never been particularly nice.

Thus sadly no nefarious controlling elite seems necessary to explain humans’ sad record.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24024766 - 01/20/17 05:19 AM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
This is more like a lecture that a debate.




not surprised. some people can't spell one sentence. :tongue2:

But look. Threads are kinda like lectures, but I prefer workshops. This is where a person has an idea, and presents their ideas, and although expects challenges, DOES also expect the ones engaged to at least LOOK at what is being presented. And show genuine interest to know what something means. Not disrespect.

Of course I am gonna go into what that video means, as I understand it, but would have done so sooner if I had thought it had been watched to begin with.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24024777 - 01/20/17 05:44 AM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
....

Quote:

now people play football and it's known to cause brain damage
but they still think it's great
no story is causing this
the facts are in all the big news outlets
but like an amorphous mindless blob of instincts the masses are happy with their sport




You tend to speak for LOTS of others, as though they are some mindless amorphous blob...! ….
.....




lets look at this part above
1) I speak for no one
2) I state some facts:

About people doing something dumb of their own free will.
There are numerous examples of folks engaging in even more brutal customs throughout history, regardless of time or place,
that have nothing to do with a nefarious controlling elite programing them subliminally.
Bullfights, fox hunting, cock fights, dog fights, gladiators, bare knuckle boxing, public executions, the use of stocks, lynchings, witch hunts, burning at the stake, all the way back to stoning and crucifixion and this stuff is only the tip of the iceberg of recorded history.

It sounds good to say all people are equal
or have equal rights, or should be free, or have buddha nature.

But if we look at intelligence ( I know it's not a perfect measure - but it does measure something meaningful) we find that it is distributed on a bell curve - in other words by definition 50% of us are below average. I suspect if we were to measure (hypothetically) other traits (that have to do with our better natures) such as for example: sensitivity, kindness, generosity, etc. we would find a similar distribution. Thus a large segment of the population has never been particularly nice.

Thus sadly no nefarious controlling elite seems necessary to explain humans’ sad record.



Quote:


There are numerous examples of folks engaging in even more brutal customs throughout history, regardless of time or place,
that have nothing to do with a nefarious controlling elite programing them subliminally.
Bullfights, fox hunting, cock fights, dog fights, gladiators, bare knuckle boxing, public executions, the use of stocks, lynchings, witch hunts, burning at the stake, all the way back to stoning and crucifixion and this stuff is only the tip of the iceberg of recorded history.




In all those things you list you will find an elite who manages to create a story where others will be influenced, and it becomes their reality.
Witch hunts...? You kiddin me? The Church? Yes the Church were fueling all of that, and liek I have said over and over in this thread, that propaganda was the creating a fear of a bogeyman, like the very 'Devil', via propaganda (that term, 'propaganda' actually originated with the Catholic church!) so as to coerce the gullible believers, who are told not to question the 'faith', to live a certain way and condone all kinds of evil against others.

EVEN in tribal cultures which are shamanic there will be the authority of the shaman who creates the reality for others. A present example is in the shamanic traditions of the upper Amazon where the story is, as promoted by shamans, that illness and disease is a result of 'magical darts' blown into unsuspecting individuals by 'brujos' and 'witches' (not to be confused with the western meaning of the latter term).
Apparently the belief is that only the shamans can see these darts in trance, and suck them out. BUT the underlying belief is that people are naturally aggressive, and so even the shaman must constantly fight against wanting to do harm to others.

So, I am not just questioning, unveiling, and critiquing the very powerful elite now, but also all structures of hierarchy which creates such stories whereby people have to assume a reality without question. This is why I emphasizing questioning. No matter if an ancient or modern tradition, open or hidden. These elites get their ideas of control FROM older controlling traditions obviously.

Quote:


But if we look at intelligence ( I know it's not a perfect measure - but it does measure something meaningful) we find that it is distributed on a bell curve - in other words by definition 50% of us are below average. I suspect if we were to measure (hypothetically) other traits (that have to do with our better natures) such as for example: sensitivity, kindness, generosity, etc. we would find a similar distribution. Thus a large segment of the population has never been particularly nice.




What does 'below average' mean?

Who set the test to assume this?

What segment of the population have never been particularly 'nice'? And who is saying this?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24025373 - 01/20/17 11:31 AM (7 years, 10 days ago)

well did you see Trump's inauguration speech?

Did you hear all the 'God' talk? And the claiming that 'God is great' and 'sent 'his only son as ransom for our sins'?

So they are still, in this so-called 'secular' society, still ramming home THAT story is my point!

And of course they had the resident Rabbi giving his 'God talk' too.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24025586 - 01/20/17 01:01 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

agreed the god stuff is nonsense
but i think it's a chicken and egg question (which came first?)
Trump didn't create the belief in the masses
he took advantage of a preexisting belief *
that people have because
they lack critical thinking skills
due to probably, causes such as:
lack of education
lack of interest
poor upbringing
being surrounded by other believers
lack of intelligence

*(as he is a manipulator aka politician)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24025624 - 01/20/17 01:10 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

loosely speaking

it seems to me that your expectations for humans are way too high
so therefore it seems to you our failure must be due to some group messing us up
I have a more cynical view of the lot of us, like many satirists
and am also unimpressed by our technology, almost every time I observe human behavior


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24025652 - 01/20/17 01:21 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Yes, and I think people like zz have accrued, for whatever reason, a psychologically perceived lack of control at various points in their lives, which leads them to posit controlling entities in order to compensate. It's relatively common.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24025813 - 01/20/17 02:36 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

We're not being controlled exactly, more diverted, entertained, lied to, infiltrated, manipulated, extorted, herded, propositioned, compromised, fleeced, misdirected, given a puppet show, medicated, inebriated, killed, neuro-linguistically programmed, abused, addicted, divided, etc. 

IME it's not the failures of humanity but the duplicitous evil of the banking cabal who claim to be Jews but are the synagogue of Satan, the Sabbatean antichrist inversion cult with its pawns and useful idiots that's the issue

You don't need numerology to see it, even if they do use numerology.


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4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: flickedbic]
    #24025844 - 01/20/17 02:50 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

flickedbic said:
We're not being controlled exactly, more diverted, entertained, lied to, infiltrated, manipulated, extorted, herded, propositioned, compromised, fleeced, misdirected, given a puppet show, medicated, inebriated, killed, neuro-linguistically programmed, abused, addicted, divided, etc. 

IME it's not the failures of humanity but the duplicitous evil of the banking cabal who claim to be Jews but are the synagogue of Satan, the Sabbatean antichrist inversion cult with its pawns and useful idiots that's the issue

You don't need numerology to see it, even if they do use numerology.




when people talk about the evil cabal, and then not do anything about the cabal, are they useful idiots then?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24027382 - 01/21/17 05:07 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
agreed the god stuff is nonsense
but i think it's a chicken and egg question (which came first?)
Trump didn't create the belief in the masses
he took advantage of a preexisting belief *
that people have because
they lack critical thinking skills
due to probably, causes such as:
lack of education
lack of interest
poor upbringing
being surrounded by other believers
lack of intelligence

*(as he is a manipulator aka politician)




Be-cause of a predatory elite it suits for them to be that way. Dumbed down, and unquestioning. Made to be all the time busy busy busy trying to survive monetarily, and also saturated in the over stimulation of the 'entertainment' industry.

Of course people naturally have deep spiritual needs, but these belief systems substitute toxic stories which divide and control.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #24027386 - 01/21/17 05:18 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
loosely speaking

it seems to me that your expectations for humans are way too high
so therefore it seems to you our failure must be due to some group messing us up
I have a more cynical view of the lot of us, like many satirists
and am also unimpressed by our technology, almost every time I observe human behavior




I take the other view when reading what you will say, and it seems to me that your expectations for humans are way too low

I speak from experience. I am just like you, no better or worse. Except unlike you this inquiry fascinates me because I have alys been a very inquisitive person. I think most children are, but the 'education' system is there to dumb all that natural curiousity down and make people willing slaves to the system, and thus they fear questioning the system, and try and police others who choose to.

an etymology of 'cynic':



Quote:

cynic (n.) Look up cynic at Dictionary.com
    mid-16c., in reference to the ancient philosophy, from Greek kynikos "a follower of Antisthenes," literally "dog-like," from kyon (genitive kynos) "dog" (see canine). Supposedly from the sneering sarcasm of the philosophers, but more likely from Kynosarge "Gray Dog," name of the gymnasium outside ancient Athens (for the use of those who were not pure Athenians) where the founder, Antisthenes (a pupil of Socrates), taught. Diogenes was the most famous. Popular association even in ancient times was "dog-like" (Lucian has kyniskos "a little cynic," literally "puppy"). Meaning "sneering sarcastic person" is from 1590s.




Political satire never goes deep enough for me. The comedian who epitomized satire was of course George Carlin.

I am simply a questioner.
Quote:


“If you’re an asker you’ll be a knower:
poetry’s knotty and wily-
the riddles you hear are windows,
and the door is enquiry…” –Gofraidh Fignn O’Dalaigh




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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24027387 - 01/21/17 05:20 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

the elites are just people too.

it's a people problem. people are irrational fucktards.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: flickedbic]
    #24027391 - 01/21/17 05:22 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

flickedbic said:
We're not being controlled exactly, more diverted, entertained, lied to, infiltrated, manipulated, extorted, herded, propositioned, compromised, fleeced, misdirected, given a puppet show, medicated, inebriated, killed, neuro-linguistically programmed, abused, addicted, divided, etc. 

IME it's not the failures of humanity but the duplicitous evil of the banking cabal who claim to be Jews but are the synagogue of Satan, the Sabbatean antichrist inversion cult with its pawns and useful idiots that's the issue

You don't need numerology to see it, even if they do use numerology.




All that sounds like control to me. I just call a spade a spade.

And true you don't need numerology to see it, but IF your gonna look you may as well not only half look but get a good look, and see the tricks they are playing.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24027394 - 01/21/17 05:27 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

people's need to control is a trait that is shared across the board, from each and every individual.

some people see a star and think "Star of David"...some people just see a star.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24027609 - 01/21/17 08:54 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Still not seeing that explanation for what you see in that video.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24027659 - 01/21/17 09:18 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Still not seeing that explanation for what you see in that video.




WOW mr impatience? Gone from not even being bothered to gaggin' for it? :tongue:

watch this space


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24027673 - 01/21/17 09:25 AM (7 years, 9 days ago)

:justcantwait:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24029692 - 01/22/17 05:21 AM (7 years, 8 days ago)

President Trump (:what2::what2:) is the joker/trump card in the Illuminati Tarot pack.

His role is as a false choice. He is supposedly against the 'new world order', the establishment. Our local rag was all about this:

Quote:

Get politics updates directly to your inbox

Donald Trump has pulled up Fortress America’s drawbridge.

The new President had only one audience. Those who voted for him. And he spoke to them in lurid Technicolor, vowing to put America First.

Here are the key extracts from his speech and what they mean for America and the rest of the world:

What he said: “We, the citizens of America, are now joined in a great national effort to rebuild our country... together, we will determine the course of America and the world for years to come.”

What he means: The new President had only one audience. Those who voted for him. And he spoke to them in lurid Technicolor, vowing to put America First, The only part of the speech grounded in truth. The course of America and the world will surely be changed for years to come – if he gets his way.
President Donald Trump arrives at the start of his inauguration (Photo: NYTNS/Redux/eyevine)

What he said: “We are transferring power from Washington DC and giving it back to you, the American People.

"For too long, a small group in our nation’s capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost.”

What it means: The arsonist has been handed a box of matches. Trump’s campaign rested on his pitch that he was the outsider taking on the establishment.

Rather than build bridges, he will continue to exploit this “them and us” theme to his advantage. source




If you remember, above I have talked about how advertisers will promote some crappy liquid etc, which is utter crap IF you read the label, but they connect it with some IMAGE, and they use spin, and then people just 'buy' it? Well same here. he talks spin, and the media make out he is a maverick, but when you look closer he is totally behind Zionist Israel, is totally for increasing the phony 'war on drugs' (which will increase the violence even more), talks about totally eradicating 'terrorism' when the 'war on terror' is fabricated BY the Zionists/globalists etc, and is against care for the natural world. The latter being, for me, the most serious problem, because all life depends on the health of nature and other species.

His role is to make people believe/have the IMAGE they have someone who will stand up against the 'new world order' as their leader. And yet Trump is the NWO's trump/joker card in their Tarot pack. As usual they mock us, which they love doing. We are their 'sheep'?

Now to that mattress advert:

Gematria, the practice of assigning numbers to words, is a Jewish practice, and is used extensively in their Kabbalah mysticism. All the people behind Trump are Zionists. He luuurves them. We see at beginning of advert the front of his tower:

Trump international hotel and tower
.In gematria that is 148 (English reduction system)

Donald J Trump (his author name)  also = 148 (English Ordinal system)

his first book titled ‘The Art of the Deal’ = 148 (English Ordinal system)

In a mainstream article above even there they note how 'coincidental' it is that.

I will paste article again here:

Quote:


"11/9 is the new 9/11": Americans liken Trump's win to most devastating day in country's history
The similarity in dates hasn't gone unnoticed as US citizens call the election result "America's worst nightmare"

Devastated Americans have likened the US Presidential election result to the most tragic day in the country's history, 9/11.

The date of the announcement that billionaire businessman Donald Trump will be the next President has not gone unnoticed by US citizens.

November 9 is written as 11/9 in the USA - the reverse of September 11 or 9/11.

And many are comparing the two with some calling it "America's worst nightmare" - worse than the death of 3,000 citizens on that day 15 years ago.




Now see in the Trump numbered sheep ad how he ends up in between sheep number 9 and sheep number 11, which can be either 911 or 119. Both the sheep stand on pillars (masonic/towers reference). This is what is called 'predictive programming' which means insiders giving 'clues' knowing that many will not be aware of them and thus they will affect their unconscious deeper. This is what ad people do all the time.

Trump says to sheep number 9: ‘good number 9, looking GOOD!’

Sheep by trumps side then says: ‘where’s your DIGNITY?!’

Is it not true that this '45th' (= 9) president is an uncouth man with no dignity, and there are even media stories of his paying to have prostitutes piss on each other, and grab women's vaginas etc etc?


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24030981 - 01/22/17 04:01 PM (7 years, 8 days ago)

I don't know why you keep throwing quotes around the word terrorism. Islamists commit plenty of terrorism. Are you really suggesting that it is the Jews who are controlling the Islamic terrorists? If so, that's just plain dumb.

"All the people behind Trump are Zionists."

:whateveryousayfreak:

"Nonsense about gematria."

Ok? What is the significance of 148 in Gematria? How many different systems are there, since I see you used two different ones to come up with 148 related to Trump? Also, what does that have to do with the commercial?

I love that you think the fact that the sheep are numbered is significant enough to underline. You do know that this is a line of commercials all with numbered sheep right? That is it playing on the whole counting sheep to fall asleep idea? Are the rest of the Serta commercials part of the Zionist conspiracy too?

That stuff about a supposed 9/11 11/9 connection is stupid. The election is always on a Tues, it was always going to be on 11/9 last year. What are you trying to suggest? That the Zionists set up 9/11 to happen on that date so that it would be the inverse of the election date fifteen years later? What is the significance of it being Trump specifically? What if Hillary won, or someone else? Would the supposed 9/11 11/9 connection still be significant? Do you think that there is any connection in the world that isn't significant, or is everything part of a global conspiracy?

So silly.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #24032469 - 01/23/17 03:51 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yes, and I think people like zz have accrued, for whatever reason, a psychologically perceived lack of control at various points in their lives, which leads them to posit controlling entities in order to compensate. It's relatively common.




...relatively common... apparently


https://duckduckgo.com/?q=manichean+mentality&t=hs&ia=web

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=manichaeism+%2B+conspiracy+theorists&t=hs&ia=web

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=psychology+%2B+conspiracy+theorists&t=hs&ia=web


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24032472 - 01/23/17 03:53 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
I don't know why you keep throwing quotes around the word terrorism. Islamists commit plenty of terrorism. Are you really suggesting that it is the Jews who are controlling the Islamic terrorists? If so, that's just plain dumb.

"All the people behind Trump are Zionists."

:whateveryousayfreak:

"Nonsense about gematria."

Ok? What is the significance of 148 in Gematria? How many different systems are there, since I see you used two different ones to come up with 148 related to Trump? Also, what does that have to do with the commercial?

I love that you think the fact that the sheep are numbered is significant enough to underline. You do know that this is a line of commercials all with numbered sheep right? That is it playing on the whole counting sheep to fall asleep idea? Are the rest of the Serta commercials part of the Zionist conspiracy too?

That stuff about a supposed 9/11 11/9 connection is stupid. The election is always on a Tues, it was always going to be on 11/9 last year. What are you trying to suggest? That the Zionists set up 9/11 to happen on that date so that it would be the inverse of the election date fifteen years later? What is the significance of it being Trump specifically? What if Hillary won, or someone else? Would the supposed 9/11 11/9 connection still be significant? Do you think that there is any connection in the world that isn't significant, or is everything part of a global conspiracy?

So silly.



Quote:


Are you really suggesting that it is the Jews who are controlling the Islamic terrorists? If so, that's just plain dumb.




Very quick to judge aren't you? You just keep coming back with just your own words/ unsupported assertions. Show some evidence to support your belief about what you say. or is it me that has to do all the work?
Quote:


Ok? What is the significance of 148 in Gematria? How many different systems are there, since I see you used two different ones to come up with 148 related to Trump? Also, what does that have to do with the commercial?




I just spelt out the significance of 148 :rolleyes:

Was it not you that went on about how IF this predatory elite are so intelligent, how come 'anyone' can suss their codes? And yet now your nervous they may use more than one system of gematria...?:rolleyes:

We are not talking about them using numbered sheep in a series of their commercials but that they focus on placing 'President' Trump in between the NUMBERS 11 and 9! You of course see this as just co-incidence, as usual right? :rolleyes:
Quote:


That stuff about a supposed 9/11 11/9 connection is stupid. The election is always on a Tues, it was always going to be on 11/9 last year. What are you trying to suggest? That the Zionists set up 9/11 to happen on that date so that it would be the inverse of the election date fifteen years later? What is the significance of it being Trump specifically? What if Hillary won, or someone else? Would the supposed 9/11 11/9 connection still be significant? Do you think that there is any connection in the world that isn't significant, or is everything part of a global conspiracy?




'dumb', 'stupid'..? wow your running out of put-down term ey?

911 features as important for these people. These numbers can also be seen as subtext of the Stars and Stripes.

As for why whould they want Trump over Hillary? There is a very good documentary called Lifting the Veil which reveals how the whole so-called 'choice' between 'left' and 'right' is phony, because BOTH sides are working for the same elite. However they both have different functions which they [the power behind the puppets] alternate according to their needs:

Quote:

'We can have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of the few, but we can't have both. -Louis D.Brandels

John Stauber (PR Watch): If you look historically at what happens to social change movements in this country, they become politically co-opted, and usually by the democratic party, because the republican party...because the former generally run on agendas of change...Once the politicians, democrat or republican get into office they tend to cater for the people who got them there

SHARON SMITH (Historian) the US ruling class has a wonderful ideal system for itself. THEY HAVE TWO CORPORATE PARTIES. One is the Republican party which is the most brazen about defending corporate interests, and the other one is the democratic party which has the same corporate backers, often the same, and sometimes different corporate backers than the republicans. But when plan A isn't working out they just usher in plan B.

So, in terms of social movements what this means is that the democrats have manged to absorb social movements historically. The 'lesser of two evils'

Lifting the Veil




Edited by zzripz (01/23/17 04:13 AM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #24032514 - 01/23/17 05:12 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

I think it's very likely that the Romans, in the case of Christianity, exerted significant influence on "the story" as a direct effort to help unify their empire around a single religion and they helped shape that religion to push submission to authority and that forgiveness and acceptance of a cosmic blessing is all you need to reach afterlife paradise.

The Romans clearly exerted a huge amount of influence through the Council of Nicea in what would be the official story of Jesus and I think they were brilliant in the way they did it from a bonding a religion with a militaristic ideology.  Islam took it even one step further with a religion that is blatantly militaristic from end to end.  It is astounding to me how few Christians truly understand the influence that the Romans had on what became the Christian bible.  If not for the relatively recent finds at Nag Hammadi, I don't think we'd truly understand how different the various narratives were of Christianity before the Romans got ahold of it.

The reason we tell stories is because they're an interesting and entertaining form of communication that captures attention and holds it.  We embellish stories to have a stronger effect on the listener.  Probably dates back to stories in the cave about the hunt.

It strikes me that the likelihood that somewhere in our past we had a breakaway group of humans that made some quantum leap discoveries and somehow exert a lot of influence on our planet in a relatively hidden way is very high.  Whether they do it through secret societies, corporate share ownership, manipulation of credit and lending or through technology we're simply unaware of, who knows. 


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/23/17 05:14 AM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24032532 - 01/23/17 05:32 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

YES. someone gets it.

you know, in my opinion, it's telling that out of most of the writings from the New Testament, most of them were personal revelations and stories about personal experience with one's personal God.

then the council of Nicea just took what was once individualized stories of God and "his glory" (or Jesus and his glory) and made it into a consolidation, a consolidation that frankly isn't as accurate a representation, when you put it all together, of something finite, something true.

ie, the most they add those works together, the more watered down the message gets from each one.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24032543 - 01/23/17 05:40 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
YES. someone gets it.

you know, in my opinion, it's telling that out of most of the writings from the New Testament, most of them were personal revelations and stories about personal experience with one's personal God.

then the council of Nicea just took what was once individualized stories of God and "his glory" (or Jesus and his glory) and made it into a consolidation, a consolidation that frankly isn't as accurate a representation, when you put it all together, of something finite, something true.

ie, the most they add those works together, the more watered down the message gets from each one.




Disinfo people from the various agencies that specialize in this stuff call this the technique of a shit sandwich.  You put something factual in the middle and sandwich it between a narrative that is essentially false.  That way, you can always point to the something true to validate the story which is false. 

Christianity is like that.  There certainly was a remarkable man named Jesus who lived and had remarkable influence.  Was a great teacher and speaker and possibly even a healer, of his time.  He developed a following around his message of love, forgiveness and charity to the poor.

Then, the Romans hi-jacked it and looked for the writings that deified Jesus so that they could push a narrative of submission to God (Rome) with obedience to laws and civil behavior which is what they wanted and, more importantly, glorious rewards for dying in battle in service of God (Rome) ... It all comes down to that ... enabling the State to sanction war with God's blessing.  That was very powerful back then and it still is today.  Presidents still end virtually every speech with "God Bless America" and/or "God Bless Our Troops." 

Absolute nonsense, but effective in joining the authority of God with the Authority of the State.  The Romans really developed this system and we've been using it ever since.

What Jefferson did, which is fascinating, is he stated in the Declaration of Independence that:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." --Declaration of Independence as originally written by Thomas Jefferson, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315

Which was a very creative way of doing the same thing.  Our rights now come from God and we need government to protect/secure them but giving those with the rights the ability to change the government.  It's still a way of joining Government with the authority of God. 


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/23/17 05:57 AM)


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24032598 - 01/23/17 06:52 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Very quick to judge aren't you? You just keep coming back with just your own words/ unsupported assertions. Show some evidence to support your belief about what you say. or is it me that has to do all the work?





You are the one seemingly claiming that a Jewish elite are engineering terrorism. The ones committing terrorism are Muslims. The person making ridiculous claims is the one who has the burden of proof, and this is about as ridiculous a claim as I can think of.

Quote:

I just spelt out the significance of 148 :rolleyes:

Was it not you that went on about how IF this predatory elite are so intelligent, how come 'anyone' can suss their codes? And yet now your nervous they may use more than one system of gematria...?:rolleyes:




Lol no. The mere fact that those three things happen to boil down to 148 in two different systems of gematria is not significant. So now the numbers don't even have their own occult significance? It's enough that different sets of words come to the same number is different systems? :burke:

Quote:

We are not talking about them using numbered sheep in a series of their commercials but that they focus on placing 'President' Trump in between the NUMBERS 11 and 9! You of course see this as just co-incidence, as usual right? :rolleyes:




It is a bit strange, but I'm much more inclined to come to the more reasonable conclusion that it is coincidence than the ridiculous conclusion that it is Zionist conspiracists pointlessly mocking people through mattress commercials.

Quote:

'dumb', 'stupid'..? wow your running out of put-down term ey?

911 features as important for these people. These numbers can also be seen as subtext of the Stars and Stripes.

As for why whould they want Trump over Hillary? There is a very good documentary called Lifting the Veil which reveals how the whole so-called 'choice' between 'left' and 'right' is phony, because BOTH sides are working for the same elite. However they both have different functions which they [the power behind the puppets] alternate according to their needs:




Nah, I've also got asinine, ridiculous, silly, etc. up my sleeve.

How can 911 be seen as subtext for "stars and stripes" and what exactly does that have to do with anything?

The fact that the Repubs and Dems are basically the same is not evidence for a global conspiracy, Zionist or otherwise.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24032726 - 01/23/17 08:47 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

You are the one seemingly claiming that a Jewish elite are engineering terrorism. The ones committing terrorism are Muslims. The person making ridiculous claims is the one who has the burden of proof, and this is about as ridiculous a claim as I can think of.




You are obviously not savvy with the available info about all this, so it is like having to keep going backwards. And ALL you do is type a few words with your opinion everything I say is 'dumb, stupid silly etc' BS. Then it is me who is supposed to rund around and try and budge such entrenched bias views. No. I am running out of patience. I will full you in here, but if you don't absorb it then your on your own and I want to move on.
For a start the Zionists are notorious for staged terrorism and false flags!

Zionist False Flag Terror and Deceptions

MOTIVE “Greater Israel”: The Zionist Plan for the Middle East

Of course false flags are not committed ONLY by Zionists, but what Zionist false flags--their biggie being 9/11 false flag-- are trying to impress in the psyche is the STORY that terrorism = Islam. I can see they have got to you!
53 Admitted False Flag Attacks

    Quote:
    We are not talking about them using numbered sheep in a series of their commercials but that they focus on placing 'President' Trump in between the NUMBERS 11 and 9! You of course see this as just co-incidence, as usual right? :rolleyes:


Quote:


It is a bit strange, but I'm much more inclined to come to the more reasonable conclusion that it is coincidence than the ridiculous conclusion that it is Zionist conspiracists pointlessly mocking people through mattress commercials.





ahaaaa, a bit of a chink there with you at least admitting it is a bit 'strange'!! Yes it very is strange. But then you grab onto your reason rock again. you don't see the 'point'. Do you see the point of the mythical character the 'Devil'?


Quote:

Lol no. The mere fact that those three things happen to boil down to 148 in two different systems of gematria is not significant. So now the numbers don't even have their own occult significance? It's enough that different sets of words come to the same number is different systems?




yeah yeah, I hear you already. Your laughin' out loud already? :rolleyes: Look, I do not think you are ever gonna get this, because your approach is far too rigid. Of course they will use different systems of gematria, and symbolism and associations.


Quote:

How can 911 be seen as subtext for "stars and stripes" and what exactly does that have to do with anything?

The fact that the Repubs and Dems are basically the same is not evidence for a global conspiracy, Zionist or otherwise.




OK first question: the major difference I think between my approach and yours is that I would be fascinated to find that a subtext of the American flag has 9 and 11 in it. But you will dismiss it because you already demand to have a rational explanation. if it don't make sense you don't wanna know. However, as I have observed before you yet do have a curiousity for this subject otherwise you wouldn't get involved.
Forst SEE that there is 9 and 11 involved in the subtext of the Stars and Stripes:

in the American Stars and Stripes, the former form rows of columns which give 9 and 11, (9 rows and 11 columns) and the stripes come to 13, and when you add all numbers you get 33. This isn't just haphazard, coincidental, but has been designed to specifications. What has it got to do with anything...? :huxleyfacepalm::



Edited by zzripz (01/23/17 08:49 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24032771 - 01/23/17 09:09 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
I think it's very likely that the Romans, in the case of Christianity, exerted significant influence on "the story" as a direct effort to help unify their empire around a single religion and they helped shape that religion to push submission to authority and that forgiveness and acceptance of a cosmic blessing is all you need to reach afterlife paradise.

The Romans clearly exerted a huge amount of influence through the Council of Nicea in what would be the official story of Jesus and I think they were brilliant in the way they did it from a bonding a religion with a militaristic ideology.  Islam took it even one step further with a religion that is blatantly militaristic from end to end.  It is astounding to me how few Christians truly understand the influence that the Romans had on what became the Christian bible.  If not for the relatively recent finds at Nag Hammadi, I don't think we'd truly understand how different the various narratives were of Christianity before the Romans got ahold of it.

The reason we tell stories is because they're an interesting and entertaining form of communication that captures attention and holds it.  We embellish stories to have a stronger effect on the listener.  Probably dates back to stories in the cave about the hunt.

It strikes me that the likelihood that somewhere in our past we had a breakaway group of humans that made some quantum leap discoveries and somehow exert a lot of influence on our planet in a relatively hidden way is very high.  Whether they do it through secret societies, corporate share ownership, manipulation of credit and lending or through technology we're simply unaware of, who knows. 




No I really do think they belong to secret societies. Don't know if you have read the book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John Allegro. It is great because it reveals how such secret groups could use text etc to hide deeper meanings so that only an initiated insider group would get it. meanwhile the sur-face stories are really just meant for the ones not having access to the technology, and lingo and understanding. I mean the Bible only used to be in Latin and most people could not understand even what the priests were chanting in the rituals.
And you have all that stuff in the Bible about numbers etc, usually preceded by 'those those that have understanding'. meaning the inner group. Those that know what the numbers and symbols mean for them.
Albert Pike who also wrote about Freemasonry admitted the same, and about how the ones on the lower levels were lied to about the symbols etc and only the higher levels of initiate got to know the 'truth'.

Of course when you say this many skeptics about this subject will say eg 'so how do YOU claim to know? you r not an initiate?'

Well, for one, we are have more access to vast more info than ever before, and there is a goood example with the Church of Scientology which is a very recent cult. people will spend thousands and thousands, and yet not be told the deeper levels (of BS) whereas we that are not even part of that utterly absurd cult founded by a science fiction and fantasy author CAN find out!

Whether or not a 'Jesus' lived is not the point really. There is not actual historical evidence for a 'Jesus of Nazareth', but the main belief is that there was, and he was the only Son of God who died for our sins etc etc etc. That is their story.

If you saw the trump inauguration they were preaching all of this! So it continues.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24032797 - 01/23/17 09:23 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

No I really do think they belong to secret societies. Don't know if you have read the book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John Allegro. It is great because it reveals how such secret groups could use text etc to hide deeper meanings so that only an initiated insider group would get it. meanwhile the sur-face stories are really just meant for the ones not having access to the technology, and lingo and understanding. I mean the Bible only used to be in Latin and most people could not understand even what the priests were chanting in the rituals.
And you have all that stuff in the Bible about numbers etc, usually preceded by 'those those that have understanding'. meaning the inner group. Those that know what the numbers and symbols mean for them.
Albert Pike who also wrote about Freemasonry admitted the same, and about how the ones on the lower levels were lied to about the symbols etc and only the higher levels of initiate got to know the 'truth'.

Of course when you say this many skeptics about this subject will say eg 'so how do YOU claim to know? you r not an initiate?'

Well, for one, we are have more access to vast more info than ever before, and there is a goood example with the Church of Scientology which is a very recent cult. people will spend thousands and thousands, and yet not be told the deeper levels (of BS) whereas we that are not even part of that utterly absurd cult founded by a science fiction and fantasy author CAN find out!

Whether or not a 'Jesus' lived is not the point really. There is not actual historical evidence for a 'Jesus of Nazareth', but the main belief is that there was, and he was the only Son of God who died for our sins etc etc etc. That is their story.

If you saw the trump inauguration they were preaching all of this! So it continues.




There are literally thousands and thousands of "secret societies" out there ... literally, every corporation or legal entity (including governments as well) on the planet is a type of secret society where there is a hierarchy of access to the inside secrets and most sensitive facts and knowledge.  I have absolutely no doubt at all that every religion including the Freemasonry and others, have all kinds of protective layers to insure only the most loyal of all get the inside scoop.  The real question is, how much influence do these groups have.  In some cases, no doubt a lot.  For instance the Bildenbergers or the Financial Titans that Attend the Davos Conventions or the Central Bank Prezzies that meet with the BIS ...  Of course those groups have power and influence.

However, is there some kind of group that has handed down generational power for centuries and been able to attract talented people to keep it going?  That's where it gets dicey because they have the same problems, with every new generation, that every group has.  Recruiting talented  people, keeping a mission together, keeping it from fracturing, in fighting, etc.

My own opinion is that we have a completely new system of control now that has evolved way beyond the RCC > Templar > FreeMason > Secret Societies model that a lot of people get all worked up over.  I think it's more chaordic and a lot less organized.  Kind of like how the mafia just kind of fell apart with a lot of rival feuding families.  I don't sense there is any coordination beyond short term alliances to get while the getting is good and then relatively fast back stabbing to muscle away more power.

Now, if one of these societies has indeed (sex Magik) cracked the code of incarnation and can control that process as in direct the incarnation of souls into families they want, then that would be one helluva powerful offer to make to get cooperation as in ... "Hey, Mr. Obama, we can insure that your family, for eternity, will be part of the planetary ruling class ... all we need from you during your presidency is ... "

Without some kind of offer like that, I doubt there is as much central coordination as one would think.  However, I do think the possibility of an ultra advanced race that is way above humans on the IQ scale is behind a lot of the mysteries on this planet is very high.  The way they illustrated this in the movie Prometheus was very interesting, I thought and very possible. 

Are we a self directed cut off planet evolving from random proteins that just so happened to get in the right order for consciousness to spark ... magically ... or are we more a farm or experiment of an ultra advanced race?  I think the latter is far more likely.  The idea that dirt has some inherent motivation to create molecular arrangements that create consciousness with a visciously unbending desire to survive and replicate is far fetched ... at least to me.


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/23/17 09:44 AM)


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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24032876 - 01/23/17 09:57 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Are we a self directed cut off planet evolving from random proteins that just so happened to get in the right order for consciousness to spark ... magically ... or are we more a farm or experiment of an ultra advanced race?  I think the latter is far more likely.  The idea that dirt has some inherent motivation to create molecular arrangements that create consciousness with a visciously unbending desire to survive and replicate is far fetched ... at least to me.




Something more complex is less far fetched. :archiebunker:


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #24032907 - 01/23/17 10:15 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Are we a self directed cut off planet evolving from random proteins that just so happened to get in the right order for consciousness to spark ... magically ... or are we more a farm or experiment of an ultra advanced race?  I think the latter is far more likely.  The idea that dirt has some inherent motivation to create molecular arrangements that create consciousness with a visciously unbending desire to survive and replicate is far fetched ... at least to me.




Something more complex is less far fetched. :archiebunker:




I find it virtually impossible to imagine a more complex theory than somehow DNA is assembled randomly in a way that creates cells that then have an inherent desire to survive, consume and replicate AND EVOLVE into higher and higher beings until eventually, you're building rockets to the stars.  Where does this motivation to survive and evolve come from?  Where does the incredible intelligence of a simple cell to survive come from?  Accidental arrangement of proteins?  That's laughable.

It's far more simple to theorize that consciousness has existed long before material form and is far more powerful and durable.  That beings of inconceivable conscious awareness exist that have far more knowledge of the laws that govern the multi-verse.  That much the way we garden and tend to our pets and projects, ultra evolved beings do something similar. 

Consciousness from lifeless chemicals?  That's a big stretch.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24032915 - 01/23/17 10:18 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

You are never going to be my latex salesman.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24032957 - 01/23/17 10:41 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

I'm not even going to spend the time to read all that Zionist stuff. I guess I'll just have to stay in the dark on that one.

As for the flag, are you saying then that the Zionists were planning the supposed 9/11 false flag back in 1960 when we adopted the 50 star version? Did the Zionists engineer the situation where Alaska and Hawaii became states so that there would be 50 stars and they could arrange them in such a way? Why would they do any of this? What does 33 have to do with anything? Did the Zionists make sure that we only had 13 original colonies so that 200 years later when we had 50 states, the rows and columns would add up to 33? What happens if we adopt any more states? Their whole 9/11 deal is going to get screwed up.

I think the Zionists should think about spending a little more time controlling things instead of pointlessly sending messages in our flag and commercials.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24033031 - 01/23/17 11:23 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Are we a self directed cut off planet evolving from random proteins that just so happened to get in the right order for consciousness to spark ... magically ... or are we more a farm or experiment of an ultra advanced race?  I think the latter is far more likely.  The idea that dirt has some inherent motivation to create molecular arrangements that create consciousness with a visciously unbending desire to survive and replicate is far fetched ... at least to me.




Something more complex is less far fetched. :archiebunker:




I find it virtually impossible to imagine a more complex theory than somehow DNA is assembled randomly in a way that creates cells that then have an inherent desire to survive, consume and replicate AND EVOLVE into higher and higher beings until eventually, you're building rockets to the stars.  Where does this motivation to survive and evolve come from?  Where does the incredible intelligence of a simple cell to survive come from?  Accidental arrangement of proteins?  That's laughable.

It's far more simple to theorize that consciousness has existed long before material form and is far more powerful and durable.  That beings of inconceivable conscious awareness exist that have far more knowledge of the laws that govern the multi-verse.  That much the way we garden and tend to our pets and projects, ultra evolved beings do something similar. 

Consciousness from lifeless chemicals?  That's a big stretch.



Even if it existed before in the spiritual realm, it has to transform to the material realm step by step implementing time and causality.
The molecules and atoms didn't form randomly. It's about correlations, harmonics and electric fields...
but it takes time.............


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #24033045 - 01/23/17 11:29 AM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Crazy_Horse said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Are we a self directed cut off planet evolving from random proteins that just so happened to get in the right order for consciousness to spark ... magically ... or are we more a farm or experiment of an ultra advanced race?  I think the latter is far more likely.  The idea that dirt has some inherent motivation to create molecular arrangements that create consciousness with a visciously unbending desire to survive and replicate is far fetched ... at least to me.




Something more complex is less far fetched. :archiebunker:




I find it virtually impossible to imagine a more complex theory than somehow DNA is assembled randomly in a way that creates cells that then have an inherent desire to survive, consume and replicate AND EVOLVE into higher and higher beings until eventually, you're building rockets to the stars.  Where does this motivation to survive and evolve come from?  Where does the incredible intelligence of a simple cell to survive come from?  Accidental arrangement of proteins?  That's laughable.

It's far more simple to theorize that consciousness has existed long before material form and is far more powerful and durable.  That beings of inconceivable conscious awareness exist that have far more knowledge of the laws that govern the multi-verse.  That much the way we garden and tend to our pets and projects, ultra evolved beings do something similar. 

Consciousness from lifeless chemicals?  That's a big stretch.



Even if it existed before in the spiritual realm, it has to transform to the material realm step by step implementing time and causality.
The molecules and atoms didn't form randomly. It's about correlations, harmonics and electric fields...
but it takes time.............




Time may or may no be understood and/or experienced the same way we do by ultra advanced beings.  Just as we watch TV now with a fast forward, stop, rewind, record, review function, it may be possible that at some level, you experience reality this way. 

I suspect, on the cosmic scale of intelligence, we are barely out of the crib in terms of understanding how it all works.  But I do think we are out of the crib and with our new found technology in genetic engineering, we are on the verge of self engineering our species for a major evolutionary upgrade.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24033280 - 01/23/17 01:39 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Time may or may no be understood and/or experienced the same way we do by ultra advanced beings.  Just as we watch TV now with a fast forward, stop, rewind, record, review function, it may be possible that at some level, you experience reality this way.


yeah lol, but time has some meaning (function) in our physical realm...

Quote:

I suspect, on the cosmic scale of intelligence, we are barely out of the crib in terms of understanding how it all works.  But I do think we are out of the crib and with our new found technology in genetic engineering, we are on the verge of self engineering our species for a major evolutionary upgrade.


I wished this transformation came from some -none human- made, natural influence. Those humans always tend to inflict those errors :tongue2:


Edited by BlueCoyote (01/23/17 01:51 PM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #24033428 - 01/23/17 02:45 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

#edit


Edited by zzripz (01/23/17 03:50 PM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24033453 - 01/23/17 02:59 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

You might have some valuable points but you shouldn't have addressed them to ME ?! :shrug:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24033592 - 01/23/17 03:52 PM (7 years, 7 days ago)

I wouldn't agree to there being thousands and thousands of secret societies. A secret society is defined by secret oaths, and threats to members breaking the oaths, and rituals.
Did you ever see that video which shows both W Bush and John Kerry being asked about the Skull and Bones? They both said using similar body language they were sworn to secrecy, and then quickly changed the subject. VERY revealing! I mean both were in the role of becoming president of the United States.
Quote:


My own opinion is that we have a completely new system of control now that has evolved way beyond the RCC > Templar > FreeMason > Secret Societies model that a lot of people get all worked up over.  I think it's more chaordic and a lot less organized.




My opinion is that they are the ultimate control freaks, so much so they are obsessed with numbers and symbolism riddled throughout their activities, building measurements, placements, etc etc.
Quote:


Now, if one of these societies has indeed (sex Magik) cracked the code of incarnation and can control that process as in direct the incarnation of souls into families they want, then that would be one helluva powerful offer to make to get cooperation as in ... "Hey, Mr. Obama, we can insure that your family, for eternity, will be part of the planetary ruling class ... all we need from you during your presidency is ... "




Well it is said that they think of themselves as gods. In fact the number connected with the 'Skull and Bones' is 322, and in the Bible is says:

Quote:


    Genesis 3:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
    22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—




A big belief/story these groups believe is apotheosis, and thus they love the Darwinian theory of evolution. This fits with their eugenics beliefs that many people are less evolved than them and so deserve to be exploited and even suffering genocide.
Their main story now is eugenics with knobs on it, is so-called 'transhumanism' (H+ for short).

Quote:

Without some kind of offer like that, I doubt there is as much central coordination as one would think.  However, I do think the possibility of an ultra advanced race that is way above humans on the IQ scale is behind a lot of the mysteries on this planet is very high.  The way they illustrated this in the movie Prometheus was very interesting, I thought and very possible.




I was gonna watch the movie--shown on our TV last week, but forgot to record it.
This is an interesting and complex question. it is true that these people love to 'channel' so-called 'higher entities'. Think of Helena Blavasky and Alice Bailey who claimed to channel 'secret chiefs' , and Aleister Crowley claimed to have dictated his occult religion Thelema via his wife channeling an entity he called Aiwass.

So next question is what ARE these beings? But the question before that should be WHY should we even believe them?

If they did, this doesn't mean that thes entities are 'real' and what they say is the 'truth'. What they could be is extensions of these peoples racist, reactionary elitist ecocidal mindsets. Mindsets which are cold and clinical and warn against ecstatic immersion where you would feel interconnected with nature and others.

I am aware that the main theme OF the film Prometheus is the story that we have been created by 'advanced beings'. And like said, guess who think of themselves as advanced beings...? So such a story very much suits THEIR story they want us immersed in! Feeling all lowly and in need of their great superior matrix.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24038959 - 01/25/17 03:26 PM (7 years, 5 days ago)

So what is the Story of thee Old Fart, of course I mean President Trump. (in UK trump means to fart)?

The lamestream media is making out he is against the 'world'--ie the New World order/corporatism/globalism, and for the ordinary working man of the United States who 'God' loves with all 'his' might.

Well he sure isn't for the native Americans who care about the water, as he has just passed the go ahead for the Dakota pipeline.

He also is allowing CIA torture camps because he claims 'torture works'...and of course his famous 'Wall'.

This sounds to me just the same old evil sht that was going on before.

So can you see the 'Satan' story vs 'God' story and vice verse theme agoing on?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24040349 - 01/26/17 03:35 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

You had all the stuff about 'Pizzagate' from both the mainstream media, and the alt.right media likeneing the 'left' to satan-worshipping child pedophile sacrificers. So that is 'Satan'

And then you had the alt.right looking to Trump as their hero and saviour who will save them from the New World Order, Satan, with the help of 'God'.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24040370 - 01/26/17 04:03 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

To me, the primary reason that Trump is so successful politically is that decades of top down pushing that more and more tolerance is needed of people that are intolerant, unmotivated, incompetent, violent and dangerous because:

- The playing field isn't level
- They need more help
- Their problems are not their fault
- Tolerance and diversity is the answer, not accountability
- The system is not fair so they deserve endless handouts
- Even if we can't afford massive social safety nets, we'll do the anyway and just borrow the money for it, even if that puts our future at great risk

A big slice of the population is tired of this approach.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24040692 - 01/26/17 08:41 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

Trump is vile, ugly, hideous. He is everything I loath, and hate. Same is so with the one that didn't get in, Hillary Clinton, and same for Obama, Buch senior and Bush junior etc etc etc. They all belong to the vile, ugly, hideous club which demands for membership sociopathic lack of empathy.

He supports torture. He is ecocidal. He is a liar. he promotes torture and then next breath says 'God is great'!

People that support these fiends support evil. They are blind by the evil storymaking that makes them think the ugly world we live in is normal and good.

I am not talking about 'evil' as in 'Satan' = evil versus 'God' = good either. I am, in this thread. trying to undermine that pseudo plot, because that is also part OF the evil storytelling that is playing out to this day and entrenched in the public psyche. We MUST start questioning it and seeing through it.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24040974 - 01/26/17 11:10 AM (7 years, 4 days ago)

That the Talmudic zionist cabal see Christians as enemy #1 has me rethinking the dismissive view I've held of Christianity in the past...

The alt-right is starting to see how similar Donald is to his cousin Hillary... but many still don't get it, even though he sucks down more Zionist cock than Hillary would choke on.

But I do see what you mean: repeatedly fleeced by the next Demican or Republicrat "savior" that's gonna do it all for us, but then does the opposite.


--------------------
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1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: flickedbic]
    #24041569 - 01/26/17 02:58 PM (7 years, 4 days ago)

well they also knew about and want him to build his stuupid as his hairdo 'wall'. But his spiel catered for the Bible Belt brigade who are all about 'God' vs' Satan' and believe in 'The Rapture' etc.

Just because they are the oppressed don't mean they aint dumb. That is the point also of this inquiry. it is waking up to our possible dumbness, and numbness. We are all numb from the relentless millennia onslaught of stories set on us to divide and control us not only from others, and other species, and the natural world but also from our selves.

So it is no little thing to start waking up from all this.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24043089 - 01/27/17 07:22 AM (7 years, 3 days ago)

You can get good insight into the situation we are in by seeing how cult leaders control their victims. There was a docu. about one last night. This was in London and the cult leader, Aravindan Balakrishnan, and his wife, got these cultists, including his own daughter, mindcontrolled for about 30 years!!

He told them that he controlled this all powerful electronic satellite warfare machine he called 'Jacky' (you couldn't make this sht up, but someone did!), and if anyone strayed from his group it would destroy them, and that their 'bad action' were the cause of catastrophic world events, like earthquakes etc.

Compare with the threat of an 'Almighty God' in the sky watching your every move, and judging you if you defy the story being imposed on you.

But another very important way they control you, which has been mentioned before but needs ongoing remembrance is how they get you to judge yourself as bad, unworthy, and deserving of abuse.

A good example is how this mean vile dehumanized culture treat people who are kicked out of their homes. the politicians and their media demonize such people as deserving their plight which will also include sleeping outside in the freezing cold in a sleeping bag, or cardboard box, etc. I was reading about this recently, and found that even people who found themselves in this situation were also agreeing they were to blame. Being made to feel like sht. these people have often already been terribly abused by others from childhood, and seek escape through drugs (which includes alcohol).

I have seen videos where people attack people who have to sleep on the street, even setting fire to their boxes, sleeping bags and tents, spitting on them, kicking them etc. I have actually seen in my hometown a good looking lad who was sleeping on the streets, and these males in suits attacked him and one bit the end of his nose off!! This of course has left him seriously traumatized.

So the sociopathic lack of empathy from the ones at the top drips down like toxic poison making the ones at the bottom think it is right to treat others this way, and that they will get away with it, because the people they abuse are to them non-people.

THIS is how serious, destructive, and ingrained toxic stories are!


Edited by zzripz (01/27/17 07:24 AM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24043116 - 01/27/17 07:39 AM (7 years, 3 days ago)

This is a great video exposing the subtext of the Donald Trump Story!



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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24057039 - 02/01/17 11:49 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I've not given up on this thread/inquiry. THE major 'story' of these times right now is 'President Trump'. Trumped up by mass media and 'alt' right media as being either a danger to the world (ie the 'new world order') OR for the latter, the saviour who is going to help the downtrodden bla bla.

Like I have shown above, they create these stories/myths in layers, and it is the deeper layers, of course, which expose what is really going on. They want you to accept their sur-face story. The propaganda.

Some people may fear looking to close at this because they feel lost in the wilderness. IE if you reveal that the choice of 'Left' or 'Right' as a political choice is a sham, many people will feel there is no where else to go. But I encourage not worrying about that and to just keep questioning, and THAT is where the real energy comes from instead of conformist death/the sucking of your energy by these LIES, etc.

In the deeper layers they use all kinds of symbolism also, and this can be daunting. But I think if you know the original source then this will make things fall into place. the orignal source are the psychedelics. The consciousness-changing substances. They WANT to control consciousness, hence their relentless use of propaganda and occultism.

Most authoritarian hierachies BOTh West and East forbid psychedelic inspiration because they want to control your consciousness.

Anyway I am continuing studying stuff about Prez Trump and hope to explore what I dis-cover later.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #24057490 - 02/01/17 02:39 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I have been watching videos where you see the ranting Trump say oever and oever in different places how 'ISIS are chopping heads off Christians' (will show these later. And another one he is saying how the Internet MUSt be controlling because they are recruiting 'SO many' young people to 'ISIS' 'ISIS' ISIS' ISIS' 'chopping heads off' Chopping heads off offfof of of of of... etcetcetc

I remember W Bush confessing that his role is to repeat  over and over so as to implant the ideas into peoples heads. THIS is a major tactic of propaganda! Repetition.

This is what they did with '9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11' using that term over and over and over

In fact it is USA and western alliance which has created and funded ISIS as their proxy soldiers. He errm never mentions that...:strokebeard:

Trump is a Zionist puppet:

Israel Demands World Internet Censorship



Edited by zzripz (02/01/17 02:41 PM)


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24057593 - 02/01/17 03:23 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

:offthehook:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24057817 - 02/01/17 04:59 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

i don't believe there is a world elite few that are evil and want to subvert humanity to their own whims...lest we're talking about people who love control & money, those people exist, but they don't control everything...what they control is the perception to things, within their ability to do so- of course they coordinate together to do this, of course, in order to make more money and make themselves more powerful. however, it's not for world domination, it's for their own sake of being powerful and rich...and these elites, as aforementioned, do not "control" everything...what they do is- as everything coapts to one another, naturally, as culture divides, contracts, back and forth, and assimilates when it can incorporate into itself- these 'elite' try to, at best, alter the perceptions of these coapted features of culture and society towards their own whims.

non-powerful people can do this too, and people are starting to realize how they can coordinate.
all in the name of power. but these things are not concocted more than they are realized, in essence, as cultural forces coming together/pulling apart.

ie, these symbols...which have been around since time immemorial, as humans have conceived of them, these symbols are not "hijacked" by evil forces...they are just hijacked by ignorance.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24059366 - 02/02/17 05:48 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)



watch this space and we look look behind the scenes of the story...


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24059630 - 02/02/17 09:10 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:


watch this space and we look look behind the scenes of the story...




IMHO, 9/11 changed everything and put a much bigger risk/reward ratio into the decision of whether or not to make police presence more subtle or more militant-like.  The desire to have a very small police footprint in society became seen as too risky and too big an invitation for the bad players out there, real and imaginary.

I also think narco violence, sustained for decades along with the glamorization by the media, film and gaming industry has enabled a more receptive public to the idea of militarized presence in the streets.


--------------------
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-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24061867 - 02/03/17 03:33 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Yes it began proper with the Nixon administration fabricated war on black people, hippies and war protestors which they titled the 'war on drugs'.
And then has become even more and more militarized with their fabricated 'war on terror' using as their the pretext for this, their false flag 9/11 attacks!! And of course all the following false flags since, giving same excuse in the UK and Europe up to the present time.


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InvisibletHEfLY
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24064088 - 02/04/17 12:34 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't read the whole thread, but I think you are right, in a way. The current mythology since the "enlightenment" has been the negation of all mythology through the promotion of materialism and positivism.

First, mythic structures are vital in terms of social cohesion. They are the very foundation of how we think and act towards each other in a group. In an ideal situation I think the stories that a society uses to understand itself would be an organic devolpment based on the history and shared experiences of that society, unfortunately modern people have for whatever reason come to consider ourselves to be too smart for these myths which have made sense of the world previously - myths are now synonymous with lies and we neglected to replace them with anything substantial. This is a problem because it destroys the unifying foundation or metastructure on which all our understanding is based. Words have no meaning in this situation.

I don't believe Hell, for example, was invented to scare anyone. I don't believe hell is an invention at all, it is real, and people have very good reason to be afraid of it. The problem is that terms like "Satan" and "Hell" are useless without a shared understanding of what those terms mean, if everyone is free to define them however they like then the bonds between language and reality are broken. There is no such thing as Beauty, or Good, or Truth, according to the scientific worldview where only concrete objects are considered real, and there's no way to prove them wrong using their own methodology, so it's great for people who want to fill the vacuum by twisting words and inventing their own versions of reality. Not so great for people trying to genuinely understand or communicate.

It's hard to tell how deliberate our current understanding of the world is, but I certainly think some people take advantage of it. Capitalists for example rely on people believing that there is nothing beyond objects and communists are the same in believing that everything is ruled by economics. The individualism and lack of understanding between people is also obviously a benefit to any ruling class that needs to keep people isolated. I see it all the time on this forum and others, people find it very hard to communicate in any meaningful way because words are all being interpreted according to some private mythology that nobody else understands, since the common foundational myth is gone.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: tHEfLY]
    #24064323 - 02/04/17 05:29 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
I didn't read the whole thread, but I think you are right, in a way. The current mythology since the "enlightenment" has been the negation of all mythology through the promotion of materialism and positivism.

First, mythic structures are vital in terms of social cohesion. They are the very foundation of how we think and act towards each other in a group. In an ideal situation I think the stories that a society uses to understand itself would be an organic devolpment based on the history and shared experiences of that society, unfortunately modern people have for whatever reason come to consider ourselves to be too smart for these myths which have made sense of the world previously - myths are now synonymous with lies and we neglected to replace them with anything substantial. This is a problem because it destroys the unifying foundation or metastructure on which all our understanding is based. Words have no meaning in this situation.

I don't believe Hell, for example, was invented to scare anyone. I don't believe hell is an invention at all, it is real, and people have very good reason to be afraid of it. The problem is that terms like "Satan" and "Hell" are useless without a shared understanding of what those terms mean, if everyone is free to define them however they like then the bonds between language and reality are broken. There is no such thing as Beauty, or Good, or Truth, according to the scientific worldview where only concrete objects are considered real, and there's no way to prove them wrong using their own methodology, so it's great for people who want to fill the vacuum by twisting words and inventing their own versions of reality. Not so great for people trying to genuinely understand or communicate.

It's hard to tell how deliberate our current understanding of the world is, but I certainly think some people take advantage of it. Capitalists for example rely on people believing that there is nothing beyond objects and communists are the same in believing that everything is ruled by economics. The individualism and lack of understanding between people is also obviously a benefit to any ruling class that needs to keep people isolated. I see it all the time on this forum and others, people find it very hard to communicate in any meaningful way because words are all being interpreted according to some private mythology that nobody else understands, since the common foundational myth is gone.




Excellent Post.  Joseph Campbell said repeatedly that perhaps man's biggest problem is his continues tendency to mistake metaphor for fact and to nod realize how important updating of our myths and/or metaphors are to the issues you spoke to in your post.

I'm convinced that the modern "god" of our world today is the ECONOMY.  We treat it much the same way as ancient man probably looked at the weather.  We don't really understand it ... we pray to it and curse it ... we often feel it's an independent thing outside our control ... we have a vast priest class to interpret it and explain it to us ... and it has fits of rage ... it gives favors to some ... holds others back ... seems to punish and reward ...

What we've lost is shared understanding of what the MEANING of our life and existence is all about.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (02/04/17 05:30 AM)


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: tHEfLY]
    #24065573 - 02/04/17 05:13 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

tHEfLY said:
I didn't read the whole thread, but I think you are right, in a way. The current mythology since the "enlightenment" has been the negation of all mythology through the promotion of materialism and positivism.

First, mythic structures are vital in terms of social cohesion. They are the very foundation of how we think and act towards each other in a group. In an ideal situation I think the stories that a society uses to understand itself would be an organic devolpment based on the history and shared experiences of that society, unfortunately modern people have for whatever reason come to consider ourselves to be too smart for these myths which have made sense of the world previously - myths are now synonymous with lies and we neglected to replace them with anything substantial. This is a problem because it destroys the unifying foundation or metastructure on which all our understanding is based. Words have no meaning in this situation.

I don't believe Hell, for example, was invented to scare anyone. I don't believe hell is an invention at all, it is real, and people have very good reason to be afraid of it. The problem is that terms like "Satan" and "Hell" are useless without a shared understanding of what those terms mean, if everyone is free to define them however they like then the bonds between language and reality are broken. There is no such thing as Beauty, or Good, or Truth, according to the scientific worldview where only concrete objects are considered real, and there's no way to prove them wrong using their own methodology, so it's great for people who want to fill the vacuum by twisting words and inventing their own versions of reality. Not so great for people trying to genuinely understand or communicate.

It's hard to tell how deliberate our current understanding of the world is, but I certainly think some people take advantage of it. Capitalists for example rely on people believing that there is nothing beyond objects and communists are the same in believing that everything is ruled by economics. The individualism and lack of understanding between people is also obviously a benefit to any ruling class that needs to keep people isolated. I see it all the time on this forum and others, people find it very hard to communicate in any meaningful way because words are all being interpreted according to some private mythology that nobody else understands, since the common foundational myth is gone.



Quote:


I didn't read the whole thread, but I think you are right, in a way. The current mythology since the "enlightenment" has been the negation of all mythology through the promotion of materialism and positivism.




I recommend you do read it.

Yes it has been that, BUT also unknowingly creating unconscious myths like scientism made out to be 'the truth'.

Quote:


First, mythic structures are vital in terms of social cohesion. They are the very foundation of how we think and act towards each other in a group. In an ideal situation I think the stories that a society uses to understand itself would be an organic devolpment based on the history and shared experiences of that society, unfortunately modern people have for whatever reason come to consider ourselves to be too smart for these myths which have made sense of the world previously - myths are now synonymous with lies and we neglected to replace them with anything substantial. This is a problem because it destroys the unifying foundation or metastructure on which all our understanding is based. Words have no meaning in this situation.




I see a difference from the natural organic myth-making you mean and what I see as toxic myths which are set down to divide and control us, thus creating toxic relations all the way down the line, between us and others, including other species, with the natural world, and even with our own selves, including bodies. This kind of cancerous myth actually manifests as dis-ease for us and our surroundings.

Also, as I see there is this going on:

The majority of people 'educated' are,like you say, led to believe mythology is dead, BUT the ones with all our wealth and the Earth's wealth who oppress us DO have myths! They have extremely toxic myths, (examples: Hermeticism; Tarot Cards; Saturnalia;Kabbalah; Luciferianism) but because we have been trained to think myth is bunk they can use their mythic numbers, symbols, etc in plain sight, but many are blind to see it, and will ridicule others for wanting to reveal it and discuss it.

I have even met with this taboo even in the psychedelic movement. It is very odd. Tt is usually a silence. I get the feeling that people talking about it may feel crazy, and/or don't wanna seem crazy! And so choose not to even say anything to do with this subject.

So what does that mean if true? it means that because we have been made un~conscious of our mythological dimensions, others can manipulate us even more easy by imposing THEIR toxic mythos on us, their stories. That is what this thread is about really.

Quote:

I don't believe Hell, for example, was invented to scare anyone. I don't believe hell is an invention at all, it is real, and people have very good reason to be afraid of it. The problem is that terms like "Satan" and "Hell" are useless without a shared understanding of what those terms mean, if everyone is free to define them however they like then the bonds between language and reality are broken. There is no such thing as Beauty, or Good, or Truth, according to the scientific worldview where only concrete objects are considered real, and there's no way to prove them wrong using their own methodology, so it's great for people who want to fill the vacuum by twisting words and inventing their own versions of reality. Not so great for people trying to genuinely understand or communicate.




So are you a Christian who believes in everlasting Hell? And 'Satan'?

Quote:

It's hard to tell how deliberate our current understanding of the world is, but I certainly think some people take advantage of it. Capitalists for example rely on people believing that there is nothing beyond objects and communists are the same in believing that everything is ruled by economics. The individualism and lack of understanding between people is also obviously a benefit to any ruling class that needs to keep people isolated. I see it all the time on this forum and others, people find it very hard to communicate in any meaningful way because words are all being interpreted according to some private mythology that nobody else understands, since the common foundational myth is gone.




What do you see as 'the common foundational myth'?


Edited by zzripz (02/04/17 05:20 PM)


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InvisibletHEfLY
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24066453 - 02/05/17 12:46 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I see a difference from the natural organic myth-making you mean and what I see as toxic myths which are set down to divide and control us, thus creating toxic relations all the way down the line, between us and others, including other species, with the natural world, and even with our own selves, including bodies. This kind of cancerous myth actually manifests as dis-ease for us and our surroundings.

Also, as I see there is this going on:

The majority of people 'educated' are,like you say, led to believe mythology is dead, BUT the ones with all our wealth and the Earth's wealth who oppress us DO have myths! They have extremely toxic myths, (examples: Hermeticism; Tarot Cards; Saturnalia;Kabbalah; Luciferianism) but because we have been trained to think myth is bunk they can use their mythic numbers, symbols, etc in plain sight, but many are blind to see it, and will ridicule others for wanting to reveal it and discuss it.

I have even met with this taboo even in the psychedelic movement. It is very odd. Tt is usually a silence. I get the feeling that people talking about it may feel crazy, and/or don't wanna seem crazy! And so choose not to even say anything to do with this subject.

So what does that mean if true? it means that because we have been made un~conscious of our mythological dimensions, others can manipulate us even more easy by imposing THEIR toxic mythos on us, their stories. That is what this thread is about really.



I actually agree with most of what you say about the occult element in this, so that's why I don't have much to say about it. Destroying worlds and rebuilding them in their own image, it's a type of colonialism.

Quote:

What do you see as 'the common foundational myth'?




Depends where you are. To connect this with something you mentioned earlier in the thread: The Logos is universal, whereas the Mythos is the local way of communicating the Logos. Each culture has traditionally developed its own mythology, which is more than just stories - it is words, body language, etiquette, images, etc, the basic alphabet we use to organise and communicate our thoughts. I agree with you about the dynamic nature of the two concepts and how they have apparently been divided. This is part of what I meant before about language breaking from reality. The symbols we use have no essential referent, which is what makes a statement like 2+2=5 possible.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: tHEfLY]
    #24066645 - 02/05/17 06:25 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

you didn't answer this question:
Quote:


So are you a Christian who believes in everlasting Hell? And 'Satan'?




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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24066674 - 02/05/17 06:46 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

The bottom line is YES there are powerful predatory humans on this planet that organize in countless ways to exploit the labor, fears and vulnerabilities of less motivated and empowered people.  And this has been going on for thousands of years.

Money, reputation, connections, family roots, education, access, media control are all advantages to generate even more leverage over weaker groups.

Is there one illuminati like group that controls the planet?  Very, very unlikely because of the competitive nature of the Alpha Males that compete at the highest levels.  To maintain a hierarchy of control from generation to generation ... keep the secrets ... keep all the levels of "members" in line is ridiculously unrealistic. 

Power groups form, grow, shrink, dissolve, re-form etc. 

Unless, somewhere in our past some small breakaway group of humans discovered some kind of technology to control incarnation or time travel, shape-shifting something like that, then I find it very hard to believe that a single group has held together for centuries.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca] * 1
    #24066880 - 02/05/17 08:50 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

It depends on your perspective....
If you think there is a predatory 'elite' or elitist human, preying on others...
Just eat them. .......                      ... Just kidding.  Sorta.

Nah but for real though - Socrates' method again comes to mind:  The secret to change is focusing all one's energy, not on fighting the old, but on creating the new.
I know this has been quoted a lot; but it's really a good point --
Build lasting, grassroots contributions that will last for - not just generations, but centuries...
The dead branches will fall off the tree - shouldn't we plant more trees?  I mean, water the fertile soil? 
I know it's an analogy but it's also a good, literal thing to do as well.
My favorite teacher - Thich Nhat Hanh - made the point, though it may take a long time to rebuild, we can do so...

There is war in Ukraine, and other places -- as is usual -- places where anger is rampant, and peace is hiding around the edges of humans' actions....  My natural conclusion is - let us focus our energy on efforts where they can do the most good...
Hm...... I dunno. :sun: :smile: And I know I have been vague and such -- but, here's one more specific example.  One of the best things we can do is simply self-'perfection' --
Laozi made the example quite well -- to change or transform the world, transform oneself, etc..
or Sri Chinmoy, 'Love the world, 'lo, the world is changed.'
Hendrix.... 'Things like love the world, and a-set your fancy free.'
I know it seems humongous at times - but remember, we survived an ice age, and so much else -- what can really compare with that?
Sorry... heh, I guess I have Hendrix lyrics in my head... :smile:
'I have lived here before, the days of ice,
And of course this is why I'm so concerned,
And I come back to find the stars misplaced...'
(Mis-quoted above, I know.  Shrug_)
Thank you for being here,
and discussing freely.
Namaste Shroomery
_____^.^_____


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24067887 - 02/05/17 03:40 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
The bottom line is YES there are powerful predatory humans on this planet that organize in countless ways to exploit the labor, fears and vulnerabilities of less motivated and empowered people.  And this has been going on for thousands of years.

Money, reputation, connections, family roots, education, access, media control are all advantages to generate even more leverage over weaker groups.

Is there one illuminati like group that controls the planet?  Very, very unlikely because of the competitive nature of the Alpha Males that compete at the highest levels.  To maintain a hierarchy of control from generation to generation ... keep the secrets ... keep all the levels of "members" in line is ridiculously unrealistic. 

Power groups form, grow, shrink, dissolve, re-form etc. 

Unless, somewhere in our past some small breakaway group of humans discovered some kind of technology to control incarnation or time travel, shape-shifting something like that, then I find it very hard to believe that a single group has held together for centuries.




they may have well have because they carry on the same myth, and this is why it is important to become familiar with what they believe, because they all like to think they belong to their solar-phallic dualistic roots.

So don't get too worried about eg 'are they all different groups or one big illuminati'? In fact the very term 'Illuminati' is the clue to where the connection BETWEEn the groups through time is at:
Quote:


illuminati (n.) Look up illuminati at Dictionary.com
    1590s, plural of Latin illuminatus "enlightened" (in figurative sense), past participle of illuminare "light up, make light, illuminate" (see illumination). Originally a name applied to a 16c. Spanish sect (the Alumbrados), then to other sects on the continent; since 1797 used as a translation of German Illuminaten, name of a secret society founded 1776 in Ingolstadt, Bavaria, (repressed there 1785) and holding deistic and republican principles; hence used generally of free-thinkers and sarcastically of those professing intellectual enlightenment (1816). Related: Illuminatism; illuminatist.




Quote:

Lucifer Look up Lucifer at Dictionary.com
    Old English Lucifer "Satan," also "morning star, Venus in the morning sky before sunrise," also an epithet or name of Diana, from Latin Lucifer "morning star," noun use of adjective, literally "light-bringing," from lux (genitive lucis) "light" (see light (n.)) + ferre "to carry, bear" (see phoresy). Venus in the evening sky was Hesperus.

    Belief that it was the proper name of Satan began with its use in Bible to translate Greek Phosphoros, which translates Hebrew Helel ben Shahar in Isaiah xiv.12 -- "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" [KJV] Because of the mention of a fall from Heaven, the verse was interpreted spiritually by Christians as a reference to Satan, even though it is literally a reference to the King of Babylon (see Isaiah xiv.4). Sometimes rendered daystar in later translations.

    As "friction match," 1831, short for Lucifer match (1831). Among the 16c. adjectival forms were Luciferian, Luciferine, Luciferous. There was a noted Bishop Lucifer of Cagliari in Sardinia in the 4th century, a strict anti-Arian regarded locally as a saint.




Ie, in their secret societies they have initiation, degrees, and the aim is apotheosis, which means becoming a god

So it is understanding what they believe.

Notice how these ideas of apotheosis infitrated into the 1960s psychedelic movement via The Beatles, Leary etc. All looking to the East and the gurus to become 'en-light-ened'.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24071987 - 02/07/17 09:41 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

So a little recap. In the Trump versus Hillary Clinton precedings or proceedings, I an seeing underlying the story the older story of 'God' versus 'Satan'. IE, as you may recall, whilst the election was going on 'wikileaks' released these emails of Podesta which caused the alternative media, especially the alt. right media to begin claiming that Hillary Clinton, Podesta and all people associated etc were involved in evil activities, even including child trafficking, abuse, even torture and sacrifice, whilst also doing Satanic rituals.

Now I am not at this instance claiming these allegations are false. But there is no actual evidence. My main point is that the Trump supporters, many of them Christian were pushing this story. Then at Trump's inauguration we heard speeches which were very Christian oriented, and there even featured a Rabbi to represent Judaism.

Some are saying that Wikileaks is a Zionist front disinfo organization and/or controlled opposition! Wikileaks founder, Julian Assange is quoted saying:

Quote:

"I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies like 9 - 11"




So I was already suspicious of Assange and wikileaks as soon as I heard that.

So, see that this 'leak; about so-called 'Pizzagate' could very well have served the Zionists (hidden as such), because knowing how emotional many people will get about the welfare of children this could very well have influenced the votes for their special admirer, Donald Trump:



Not that there is any serious criticism of Israel within most of U.S politics. In fact it is dangerous to criticize Israel! But just to see that Trump in this stance is their goy/guy!

But my main point here is the old 'God' versus 'Satan' thing going on underneath all this sht.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24072152 - 02/07/17 11:16 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

This isn't P S or P. At this point you've devolved this into a conspiracy thread.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24072336 - 02/07/17 12:27 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
This isn't P S or P. At this point you've devolved this into a conspiracy thread.






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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24072359 - 02/07/17 12:43 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

hey Lunar, pm me since i cant pm you


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24072513 - 02/07/17 01:46 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
This isn't P S or P. At this point you've devolved this into a conspiracy thread.




which is YOUR story which I do not agree with. But which YOu keep coming back to trolling, like a bad penny...soooo you've devolved into my ignore box :eek:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24072727 - 02/07/17 03:10 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Lol, hell yeah. Unignored by one and ignored by another in the same thread. Awesome.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24076908 - 02/09/17 09:11 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

WHY it is important to see through the accusation: 'what your saying is conspiracy theory, and is thus crazy and not befitting rational discourse':

We need energy to experience reality. Think of a psychedelic trip when you feel like you have SO much energy. Or if you go to a beautiful place, on holiday/vacation. Or of your are doing something which REALLY inter~rests you, you HAVE the energy. Watching porn for example.... lol:crazy2:

Well the same applies to asking questions about the reality we are in. What story are you being made to believe, to live? Most of the stories are set to literally EAT our energy. Think of the 'story' in the industrial revolution' where people were herded into factories, and used like parts of a machine to make a relatively small group of men, and women very rich. But on top of that were the stories you were a sinner (Christian story), and not worthy, and you must obey your master, and even though your life is sht there would be even WORSE waiting for you, in fact everlasting HELL if you turned your face away from 'God', and/or disobeyed your masters/oppressors. So both outwardly and inwardly your energy is being used by the predatory toxic storytellers.

So I am saying that to regain, and/or become aware of energy. which is life, is to look freely without ANY restrictions. This surely is a much deeper meaning of philosophy which literally means the love of wisdom:


Quote:


philosophy (n.) Look up philosophy at Dictionary.com
    c. 1300, "knowledge, body of knowledge," from Old French filosofie "philosophy, knowledge" (12c., Modern French philosophie) and directly from Latin philosophia and from Greek philosophia "love of knowledge, pursuit of wisdom; systematic investigation," from philo- "loving" (see philo-) + sophia "knowledge, wisdom," from sophis "wise, learned;" of unknown origin.

        Nec quicquam aliud est philosophia, si interpretari velis, praeter studium sapientiae; sapientia autem est rerum divinarum et humanarum causarumque quibus eae res continentur scientia. [Cicero, "De Officiis"]
        [Philosophical problems] are, of course, not empirical problems; but they are solved through an insight into the workings of our language, and that in such a way that these workings are recognized -- despite an urge to misunderstand them. The problems are solved, not through the contribution of new knowledge, rather through the arrangement of things long familiar. Philosophy is a struggle against the bewitchment (Verhexung) of our understanding by the resources of our language. [Ludwig Wittgenstein, "Philosophical Investigations," 1953]

    Meaning "system a person forms for conduct of life" is attested from 1771.




Quote:

WISDOM: wisdom (n.) Look up wisdom at Dictionary.com
    Old English wisdom "knowledge, learning, experience," from wis (see wise (adj.)) + -dom. A common Germanic compound (Old Saxon, Old Frisian wisdom, Old Norse visdomr, Old High German wistuom "wisdom," German Weistum "judicial sentence serving as a precedent").





This exploration of wisdom must have has no walls built within, or about its terrain, because the terrain is boundless, obviously. Any demand therefore to censor inquiry and exploration into the wisdom of understanding reality is limiting wisdom, and is also censorship.

of course there can be serious questioning. But if you present evidence this should be looked at without any demanding that it is not 'real'. it is better to say one doesn't know rather than claim one does.
Take looking at '9/11' which I am claiming is a major toxic story, and I include that the number 11 is important to people in the occult, and how the Twin Towers LOOk like the number 11. Whether you believe the connection is occultist or not the evidence CAN be seen, because the buildings do resemble an 11. Two pillars:



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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24077158 - 02/09/17 11:24 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Any demand therefore to censor inquiry and exploration into the wisdom of understanding reality is limiting wisdom, and is also censorship.





Nothing like good ol' willful self-censorship from people who disagree with you.


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24079030 - 02/10/17 07:27 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

A Noble Lie~~

Refers to the propping up of a myth in order to "maintain social harmony" and keep the elite in their present position.

Plato's Republic





'Noble':



Quote:

noble (adj.) Look up noble at Dictionary.com
    c. 1200, "illustrious, distinguished; worthy of honor or respect," from Old French noble "of noble bearing or birth," from Latin nobilis "well-known, famous, renowned; excellent, superior, splendid; high-born, of superior birth," earlier *gnobilis, literally "knowable," from gnoscere "to come to know," from PIE root *gno- "to know" (see know). The prominent Roman families, which were "well known," provided most of the Republic's public officials.

    Meaning "distinguished by rank, title, or birth" is first recorded late 13c. Sense of "having lofty character, having high moral qualities" is from c. 1600. A noble gas (1902) is so called for its inactivity or intertness; a use of the word that had been applied in Middle English to precious stones, metals, etc., of similar quality (late 14c.), from the sense of "having admirable properties" (c. 1300).
noble (n.) Look up noble at Dictionary.com
    "man of rank," c. 1300, from noble (adj.). The same noun sense also is in Old French and Latin. Late 14c. as the name of an English coin first issued in reign of Edward III.




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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24079053 - 02/10/17 07:44 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

8,000 posts.  Registered in 08.  This must mean something.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24093084 - 02/15/17 02:49 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

So as the previous post states, the ruling class assume they are superior to the 'masses'. The 'master of propaganda, Edward Bernays said the same, writing about how a relatively small group of invisible men pull the strings of the people bla bla

This is the meaning OF Plato's 'Noble ' lie, the term 'noble' meaning "high-born, of superior birth". THIS idea has been 'scientifically' promoted by the phony Eugenics Movement which a lot of well known people supported, and with it of course comes racism, and misogyny, and classism.


A big part of this myth will be mind controlling people--their victims-- to believe this of themselves and hence looking up to the ones who claim to be superior.

But a better thing to do is rather look into how these predators operate, the tricks they use and so on so as to undermine them.
Example, take crap food pushed on you as being 'good for you' via various tricks. Once you see it IS crap that is the end of it, you have undermined their bllsht!!! Well same is so for any of their crap ideas.

This video below is, I reckon, one of the most important ones to see because president W Bush admits to the mind-controlling tricks they use on us:

Quote:


President W Bush: "...it's the third time I've said that. I'll probably say it three more times, see, in my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over again for the 'truth' to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda." [my emphasis] Audience applauds??



:eek:



Edited by zzripz (02/15/17 02:50 PM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24102558 - 02/19/17 12:18 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Wealthy people tend to be smarter ... more educated ... better organizers ... better planners ... better coordinators ... more leisure time to think ...

However, thinking there's an uber level of governing elites that pass this governing advantage on in an organized way from generation to generation is a huge stretch.  They don't trust each other enough to cooperate at that level.  They compete just like all of nature does.

Is there an advance race of beings on this planet that has evolved to a higher level and perhaps operates hidden or cloaked in some way from us?  I think that's an interesting topic.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24102625 - 02/19/17 12:47 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I think zZ is looking or pointing to whatever might happen to be the highest echelon of organized people who also use our natural storytelling genius to control us or influence us.  By definition there must be one to fit that bill - but ultimately lets not forget if you keep going higher and higher up the rungs things KEEP thinning out and eventually you find no one is manning the ship.

Gov, Religion, Education, military industrial complex, Uber wealthy old money, addictive drug producers/companies etc are some good places to start looking -and they should in some way be connected considering their nature.

This thread reminds me of the book named 'Dune'.  Bene Gesserit, CHOAM, Spacing Guild, Orange Catholic Bible, Imperial Establishment etc all come to mind.  Our world sure has its own versions to some degree or another.

Who gets what im putting down?!


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24102996 - 02/19/17 03:25 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

President W Bush: "...it's the third time I've said that. I'll probably say it three more times, see, in my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over again for the 'truth' to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda." [my emphasis] Audience applauds??






LOOK!!! He is revealing something/bragging about it. Knowing that so many people are so 'the walking dead' they will applause or just not get it, or care. Why? because the same fkers that do his 'line of work' and are the puppet master OF his ilk, they make sure to maintain 'the walking dead' via various ways--'education' (they get us very young, and it is enforced), and also political propaganda, and also so-called entertainment from Hollywood, and TV, and general mass media, and sport. All ways to hypnotize us.

Quote:

Wealthy people tend to be smarter ... more educated ... better organizers ... better planners ... better coordinators ... more leisure time to think ...




As I said in another thread, their privileged 'education' shows what an absolutely abysmal failure it is. it creates sociopaths who love war, and exploiting other humans, other species, and the natural world. So they may very well 'think', but it is cut off rom the more intelligent feeling and emotional intelligence! They are addicted to profit. This should show you they are trying to fill a vast void that can never be filled with money and possessions.

No, I don't think so. That is a myth they like to put out into the 'dreaming mind' via various routes including usefull idiots (to them) like New Ager David icke. They WANT to be thought of as advanced (and/or in hybrid with advanced beings) so that people will feel inferior to their evil sht. As said they do this on various levels.

Quote:

However, thinking there's an uber level of governing elites that pass this governing advantage on in an organized way from generation to generation is a huge stretch.  They don't trust each other enough to cooperate at that level.  They compete just like all of nature does.




they belong to secret societies and make oaths which make them only loyal to each other, from generation to generation, yes. Three generations of the Bush family were in the secret Skull and Bones club!  This is why we have to expose this. That is in part what I choose to do by talking about this.
Quote:


Who gets what im putting down?!




I am not sure. Can you spell it out?


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #24104724 - 02/20/17 08:44 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

President W Bush: "...it's the third time I've said that. I'll probably say it three more times, see, in my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over again for the 'truth' to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda." [my emphasis] Audience applauds??






LOOK!!! He is revealing something/bragging about it. Knowing that so many people are so 'the walking dead' they will applause or just not get it, or care. Why? because the same fkers that do his 'line of work' and are the puppet master OF his ilk, they make sure to maintain 'the walking dead' via various ways--'education' (they get us very young, and it is enforced), and also political propaganda, and also so-called entertainment from Hollywood, and TV, and general mass media, and sport. All ways to hypnotize us.

Quote:

Wealthy people tend to be smarter ... more educated ... better organizers ... better planners ... better coordinators ... more leisure time to think ...




As I said in another thread, their privileged 'education' shows what an absolutely abysmal failure it is. it creates sociopaths who love war, and exploiting other humans, other species, and the natural world. So they may very well 'think', but it is cut off rom the more intelligent feeling and emotional intelligence! They are addicted to profit. This should show you they are trying to fill a vast void that can never be filled with money and possessions.

No, I don't think so. That is a myth they like to put out into the 'dreaming mind' via various routes including usefull idiots (to them) like New Ager David icke. They WANT to be thought of as advanced (and/or in hybrid with advanced beings) so that people will feel inferior to their evil sht. As said they do this on various levels.

Quote:

However, thinking there's an uber level of governing elites that pass this governing advantage on in an organized way from generation to generation is a huge stretch.  They don't trust each other enough to cooperate at that level.  They compete just like all of nature does.




they belong to secret societies and make oaths which make them only loyal to each other, from generation to generation, yes. Three generations of the Bush family were in the secret Skull and Bones club!  This is why we have to expose this. That is in part what I choose to do by talking about this.
Quote:


Who gets what im putting down?!




I am not sure. Can you spell it out?




So, you take a secret oath while in college and probably drunk to the max and that commits you to a lifetime of collusion to control the planet?  Or, is it about as binding as all the other "promises" we make in college and all the other "oaths" we take in a lifetime?  Why would the skull and bones oath somehow have this transformative ability to make you OK with psychopathic leadership that is somehow controlling our planet?  I find that a stretch.

Maybe, just maybe, that ruthless, cunning, aggressive behavior, for all mammals, including humans, is what puts us on top of pride rock and not some kind of master uber class of humans colluding through the centuries.  Maybe the most aggressive and motivated and ruthless simply get ahead???  That's kinda how it works in the animal kingdom, isn't it?

And terms like psychopathic leaders and such are just terms that "the herd" uses to throw spitballs at the 800 LB Gorillas that rule the jungle.  Leadership at the highest levels is extremely hard, very competitive and the guys you're competing with are as ruthless as you are.  It takes a certain kind of human that wants that kind of life.  They're tough, badass and willing to do what's necessary to sieze and hold power ... and take the criticism.

Part of a global elite control system?  Doubtful.

I do think, in the centuries of mass ignorance before the Renaissance, that mythic/religious storytelling as in the Romans and the Catholic Church WAS used to control the masses and create an obedient population and it worked.  However, over time, their ability to use those myths and stories to control really faded out.  They've replaced this kind of storytelling with ... THE ECONOMY ... which is the deity of our age.  The economy is our modern GOD ... it gives favors and takes away ... it's vulnerable to unpredictable storms... we have a vast, high paid priest class to interpret it and divine its meaning ... we pray to it and curse it too ... no one really seems to understand it yet it controls our lives ...

The ECONOMY = Jehovah ...


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24104819 - 02/20/17 09:15 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

well said! I must concur.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24104860 - 02/20/17 09:30 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

So, you take a secret oath while in college and probably drunk to the max and that commits you to a lifetime of collusion to control the planet?  Or, is it about as binding as all the other "promises" we make in college and all the other "oaths" we take in a lifetime?  Why would the skull and bones oath somehow have this transformative ability to make you OK with psychopathic leadership that is somehow controlling our planet?  I find that a stretch.




with respect, you are wondering about this from ignore-ance. IE , you haven't done the research. I assure you, these oaths are not some fraternity triviality but are serious. This is how they feel their power.
Checkout this video showing two men both cying for the presidency, W Bush and Kerry who BOTH are Bonesmen. See how they respond to talking about their secret club's rituals etc. Look at their body language, and how they change the subject quickly. This speaks volumes. the clue is 'it is SECRET'...? duh?



Quote:


Maybe, just maybe, that ruthless, cunning, aggressive behavior, for all mammals, including humans, is what puts us on top of pride rock and not some kind of master uber class of humans colluding through the centuries.  Maybe the most aggressive and motivated and ruthless simply get ahead???  That's kinda how it works in the animal kingdom, isn't it?




Here you are lost in another of their stories which make you believe how things are is how nature intended it. it is the Darwinian myth of 'survival of the fittest' and of the 'alpha male'. Both of these are toxic myths with no foundation in reality.
However of COURSE these people are ruthless, but this is because of how they get you believing delusions. Look at an example of advertising. They can get you to drink some shit liquid IF they can emotionally attach it to some IMAGE. Like they did with cigarettes by connecting it with the 'independent free Marlboro Man' etc etc. See the sick irony? he aint free, independent, he's freaking addicted to baccy which makes hom cough and unfit and prone to cancer!

Quote:

And terms like psychopathic leaders and such are just terms that "the herd" uses to throw spitballs at the 800 LB Gorillas that rule the jungle.  Leadership at the highest levels is extremely hard, very competitive and the guys you're competing with are as ruthless as you are.  It takes a certain kind of human that wants that kind of life.  They're tough, badass and willing to do what's necessary to sieze and hold power ... and take the criticism.

Part of a global elite control system?  Doubtful.




I think I agree with you about the psycho theory. This is the theory that many of the people ruling us are psychopathic and literally have different formed brains to us, and this makes them emotionally detached from empathy, and love.
To me this is making a scapegoat. it is the biological equivalent of David ickes warning that they are hybrid aliens lol. I just see it that people can become detached from their emotional intelligence due to the toxic stories they've been forced fed since being small.
Look many of these predatory fkers get sent to privileged 'education' -most often boarding schools where they are inundated with mind control, and convinced that they are fit to lead the 'great unwashed'/us and are superior, by genetics, to most of humanity, especially people of colour and DEFINITELY the animal species. And we are made to believe this also, and so look up to them. I however enourage seeing through this toxic BS.

Quote:

I do think, in the centuries of mass ignorance before the Renaissance, that mythic/religious storytelling as in the Romans and the Catholic Church WAS used to control the masses and create an obedient population and it worked.  However, over time, their ability to use those myths and stories to control really faded out.  They've replaced this kind of storytelling with ... THE ECONOMY ... which is the deity of our age.  The economy is our modern GOD ... it gives favors and takes away ... it's vulnerable to unpredictable storms... we have a vast, high paid priest class to interpret it and divine its meaning ... we pray to it and curse it too ... no one really seems to understand it yet it controls our lives ...

The ECONOMY = Jehovah ...




If you watched the recent Trump inauguration you will be understanding that the 'God' myth continues as WELL AS the 'Economic - Jehovah', which is more Economic = Lucifer, because these people are obsessed with the occult but also USE the Christian dogma and scientism dogma to maintain their power.

Time to start exploring these stories which is what I am doing.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by zzripz (02/20/17 09:32 AM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24105809 - 02/20/17 03:41 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:

If you watched the recent Trump inauguration you will be understanding that the 'God' myth continues as WELL AS the 'Economic - Jehovah', which is more Economic = Lucifer, because these people are obsessed with the occult but also USE the Christian dogma and scientism dogma to maintain their power.

Time to start exploring these stories which is what I am doing.





I went through about a 5 year period in my life where I did a deep, deep dive into the rabbit hole you're describing.  I'm well aware of all the ins and outs of the Masons, Templars, Annunaki, European Royal families, Rothshchilds, Rockefellers, Bildenbergers, Davos, Central Bankiers, The BIS, hybrid blood lines, The 300, Bohemian Grove and the Illuminati.  All of it. 

And, as I said, I absolutely believe that wealthy powerful people come together and form alliances for a time until, like nearly all legal entities, they fade away or lose power or are driven down by competition or are simply dissolved because of incompetence.  I think you can keep these alliances for a generation or two or three and then, they just lose potency the same way that all the kings and families of kings over the centuries did.

Are the Bushes and Kerry's secretive about Skull and Bones?  Sure.  Big deal.  Maybe they had to jerk off while drunk and it got photographed in some way and they've been threatened to keep the ceremony secret.  That doesn't mean they're part of some kind of global control system.

Why?  Well, consider that GHWB, if there was ever a NWO candidate to control the planet, was the man.  HE was the guy ... and he couldn't even win a second term against Bubba the chubby adulterer. 

As Joseph Campbell said over and over and over ... man's biggest mistake is to confuse metaphor with fact.  That's exactly what you're doing.  Just as Christians take their myths too seriously and Muslims do too and Buddhists do as well ... you're doing the same thing.  These secret groups that control everything are nothing more than another fringe mythology that you're taking way too seriously.

Having said that, there are some downright criminal and violent leaders on this planet that are truly psychopathic just like thousands and thousands of leaders through history.  Leaders are willing to do what others aren't.  That's why they win.  Don't confuse that system of rising to the top with some elaborate global control system because it's a dead end.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24106286 - 02/20/17 06:42 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

:curbyourenthusiasm:


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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #24106319 - 02/20/17 06:52 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

A dead end? 

I thought you held that the likelihood of a group's hidden elaborate global control system was "very high".

Quote:

the likelihood that somewhere in our past we had a breakaway group of humans that made some quantum leap discoveries and somehow exert a lot of influence on our planet in a relatively hidden way is very high.  Whether they do it through secret societies, corporate share ownership, manipulation of credit and lending or through technology we're simply unaware of, who knows.





https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24032514#24032514

Quote:

My guess is that earth, like many planets, is a farm tended to by extremely advanced species(...)




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23980638#23980638

So conspiracies are dead ends, we need to be focusing on the alien overlords?


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


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