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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23996225 - 01/09/17 06:54 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

I didn't start the thread bruh.

My insight is that most people suck at storytelling and in no way does the basic ability to string together a coherent narrative imply a 'natural storytelling genius'. PC canards about everyone being creative be damned.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23997262 - 01/10/17 03:35 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
I didn't start the thread bruh.

My insight is that most people suck at storytelling and in no way does the basic ability to string together a coherent narrative imply a 'natural storytelling genius'. PC canards about everyone being creative be damned.




I am not going to allow you to disrupt my thread, because of your provovative trolling attitude. If you are so wise go and start your own thread no doubt fully to the brim with novel insights bla bla. If I try and take you on it goes away from what I am trying to explore here.
You completely misunderstand what I am actually saying, so there is no point trying to explain, especially with such an entrenched critical attitude such as yours.

If you persist with unfruitful responses, you'll be ignored.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23997269 - 01/10/17 03:43 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
zzripz

just a little study of anthropology would show that in all times and places humans have come up with crazy ideas, cultures, and religions -- there is no need to postulate one particularly evil master mind force behind the curtain pulling our strings. Folks come up with absurd superstitions more often than they engage in rational thought.

Historically the rise of the consumer society, the invention of credit (aka credit cards and massive personal debt), mass production, television, and giving corporations the rights of individuals, advertising, & the invention of the franchise, are all forces that have combined to erode society and human values. A youtube search for Edward Bernays is one good place to begin research. His books are also available free as pdfs online. He is about as close to an evil genius as one is likely to find, as regards this story, I think. Of course Henry Ford and Thomas Edison were no saints either, but Bernays seems to have been pivotal, especially as regards using unconscious influence.




Did you even read the post of mine above where I quoted Edward Bernays? IE I am on all that!

because if you had then surely there would be seen a contradiction in what you are assuming here:

Quote:

there is no need to postulate one particularly evil master mind force behind the curtain pulling our strings.




As I said, Bernays had confessed to that being the case, in his book called Propaganda! :rolleyes: (please go and read the quote)

And look, I am not am not even saying that all kinds of diverse and weird stories haven't been creatively imagined worldwide in all places. BUT am saying that we are natural story tellers, even individually, having creative imagination, and that this natural ability has been expropriated by control freak authoritarians who look to find ways to manipulate us by this means.

I had compared this expropriation with how, merchants, and Big Food, had found a way to manipulate our natural love for fruit and natural sugars, and they did this by substituting their more harmful sugars, and when they got to see brain technology, and how parts of brain lights up when eating sugar they could further fine tune their manipulation so that now many people we see about are overweight, because they are addicted to sugar, etc.

I think it is VERY important to become aware of all this, hence I have started a discussion about it.

Your second paragraph summarizing the myth/story we are immersed in now is a part of what I am saying. But in order to understand this we have to understand all the philosophical, and religious, and occult, stories that has come out of because it's all connected. And the looking into it un-covers it.


Edited by zzripz (01/10/17 04:12 AM)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997456 - 01/10/17 07:20 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I agree with Laughingdog. There has to be some perspective.

Commercialism is a use of popular sentiments to establish a narrative of people buying and consuming products. It is like "predator and prey", a natural mechanism for humans.

Maybe the question is where responsibility begins. If you are older than 20, you have to have something in you to be able to turn this connection off. The world is not a psychic sphere. It is a sphere of attunements. Paranoid thinking is knowing you are "psychically preyed on", but not knowing how to turn off the connection to come back to your own natural headspace. What excuse does anyone have for that?

There is no conspiracy, just the many people trying to take us all for a ride in essentially human ways. Ideology overlaps with consumerism, but in less assuming or overt ways.

Indoctrination is not a question, ("Are we being indoctrinated?" "How are we being indoctrinated?") There is only a particular critique to make when you realize and can put it down in terms of facts in a given situation. You say "this is what they are feeding us through media." And the implied psychological dimension only comes through a media we are attuned to.

If it is overwhelming, why not just turn it off, and go back to your life and living your way? Anyone can do that, at any time. so my view, respectably, is ideological apparatuses and repression are realities, but there is no such thing as mind control.


Edited by Kurt (01/10/17 07:37 AM)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23997475 - 01/10/17 07:36 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Food is a good example of organic mechanisms built into us (foraging, looking for calorie dense energy, like sugars in fruits) that can be exploited by consumer research. But how responsible are we for the way we eat? We can just take the right measures.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997501 - 01/10/17 07:50 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
You completely misunderstand what I am actually saying, so there is no point trying to explain, especially with such an entrenched critical attitude such as yours.




No, I understand perfectly well what you are saying, and I responded to it.

Quote:

If you persist with unfruitful responses, you'll be ignored.




Lol, by all means. The only other person ignoring me is because of this forum as well. Pretty silly that some posting on a philosophy forum can't stand opposing viewpoints. Wouldn't want your narrative challenged.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #23997648 - 01/10/17 09:18 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

OK you think you understand me. I take it there is no doubt?

If you say no there isn't, then I am not impressed with that, because there must always be doubt. One can never be totally sure.

But anyhow putting your replies in a group:

Quote:

We may be natural story tellers, but we aren't naturally good story tellers. It takes skill to tell a good story with any artistic merit. Your dream story with your brother, e.g., is trite.

Other than that, what is your point? We experience life in a narrative fashion. We speak of life events as narratives. Of course people are going to use false narratives to mislead. This isn't really new information.

Lol way to jump to ridiculous conclusions. Granting for arguments sake that there are no subjects that haven't been touched, the idea is to have novel insights and approaches. What does your claim that humans are natural storytellers reveal about propaganda and other misleading narratives that is novel? What are we supposed to discuss in this topic? Obviously people use false narratives to deceive, and obviously groups of people do as well. I highly doubt there is some top secret group out there pulling the strings of society as a whole with false narratives. It's just many different people and groups of people doing such for their own gains.




What the hell, here goes~~

Who is to say what is or isn't a good story? it all depends on the context, the person, the age of the person, and how the story affects that person on a personal level. To someone who has never had an addiction problem, the story of someone undergoing it will have a deeper affect on them than maybe someone who hasn't. IE it is subjective what makes a good story. Some people HATE Shakespeare!

You judge my part dream to be trite. I was not asking for you to judge it, and that is NOT the point of why I described it. I meant/was trying to point out how we naturally create stories, NOT that we are all natural novelists :rolleyes:

And anyhow, IF you ever find yourself in a dramatic situation of trying to rescue someone in a river try calling it 'trite' then.

but this is what I mean by I see you missing the point. Not reading me right, not diggin' me. YOU think you do, I think you don't. Impasse.

And your 'of course people use false narratives to mislead' like this is a fact of life and why should anyone question is superficial. I AM questioning it. If you don't want to be part of this inquiry I have begun then don't participate. Stay with your own narrative, whatever that be. This is mine. And I have the freedom to explore this.

The whole point for me is to QUESTION false narratives as they are extremely dangerous, even for the ones not even knowing of them. Especially for them, because they are utterly mind-controlled by them.

you ask:
Quote:

What does your claim that humans are natural storytellers reveal about propaganda and other misleading narratives that is novel?




I am trying to explain just that, but for some reason you are not getting it. Thus I assume you do not really care to/cannot see it, so why should I make more efforts just for you?

To me what I am saying is very clear. BECAUSE the deeper part of us is imagEination, this is a deep way propagandists can manipulate us. the ad industry does this, as does religious propaganda, and scientism, etc.

you conclude without any doubt whatsoeverrrr:
Quote:

I highly doubt there is some top secret group out there pulling the strings of society as a whole with false narratives. It's just many different people and groups of people doing such for their own gains.




I have just quoted Edward Bernays (quoted above, from his book Propaganda) who actually confesses there is just that. A power structure that very well does share an agenda for more and more control over 'the masses'. This may take different forms. For example in the Age of Religion the main social-controlling STORY was disseminated from Church authority. You had to believe the most absurd things, and if you didn't would be charged as being a heretic. Some people were even tortured, burned alive and hanged for not believing or being see to have dealings with the 'Devil' and 'his' 'demons':



So being forced to be immersed in someone else's story can be extremely dangerous! Especially if you question it!

This is why cult leaders, and all author-itarians, HATE being questioned.

This is why a major theme in George Orwell's book 1984 is the torture scene where Winston it tortured to make him BELIEVE the story that 2 + 2 = 5:



This is why looking into all this is very important. As an ongoing process. I don't care you seem to not share my passion. That is sadly (IMO) your story, not mine.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23997667 - 01/10/17 09:28 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:
I agree with Laughingdog. There has to be some perspective.

Commercialism is a use of popular sentiments to establish a narrative of people buying and consuming products. It is like "predator and prey", a natural mechanism for humans.

Maybe the question is where responsibility begins. If you are older than 20, you have to have something in you to be able to turn this connection off. The world is not a psychic sphere. It is a sphere of attunements. Paranoid thinking is knowing you are "psychically preyed on", but not knowing how to turn off the connection to come back to your own natural headspace. What excuse does anyone have for that?

There is no conspiracy, just the many people trying to take us all for a ride in essentially human ways. Ideology overlaps with consumerism, but in less assuming or overt ways.

Indoctrination is not a question, ("Are we being indoctrinated?" "How are we being indoctrinated?") There is only a particular critique to make when you realize and can put it down in terms of facts in a given situation. You say "this is what they are feeding us through media." And the implied psychological dimension only comes through a media we are attuned to.

If it is overwhelming, why not just turn it off, and go back to your life and living your way? Anyone can do that, at any time. so my view, respectably, is ideological apparatuses and repression are realities, but there is no such thing as mind control.



Quote:


It is like "predator and prey", a natural mechanism for humans.




maybe that is a story we are led to believe. I am sure your aware of social darwinism?

I don't understand your second paragraph.


Quote:

There is no conspiracy, just the many people trying to take us all for a ride in essentially human ways. Ideology overlaps with consumerism, but in less assuming or overt ways.




It always amazes me how when the mainstream news use that term 'conspiracy (often more than several times for a report) about some 'low level' criminal activity then that term is consensually acceptable. BUT when it is being applied to a more powerful group tis you who asks questions gets accused of BEING a 'conspiracy theorist' and the assertion of 'conspiracies don't exist'. Obviously they very do!

By the way, trying to 'take us all for a ride' = 'conspiracy'. You are just using different words is all:

Quote:

from Latin conspirare "to agree, unite, plot,"


eg 'come on, lets us taken 'them' for a ride/conspire'

I don't understand the paragraph which follows that.


Quote:

If it is overwhelming, why not just turn it off, and go back to your life and living your way? Anyone can do that, at any time. so my view, respectably, is ideological apparatuses and repression are realities, but there is no such thing as mind control.




LOL, a lot of what you say makes no sense to me. Oh well


Edited by zzripz (01/10/17 09:33 AM)


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997735 - 01/10/17 10:05 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I think if you use the word story or "narrative" to describe particular cases of a streamlined thought it is pretty clear. This would be different from using the word "conspiracy". because it is particular and concrete. In a narrative, it is implied the voice is heard or can be heard by all people. conspiracy involves more whispers. It would be worth distinguishing. Maybe it is just a formal point though.


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23997741 - 01/10/17 10:07 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Also thanks for quoting the full post and then breaking it down. Good intellectual etiquette even if we are on different pages. :thumbup:


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23997911 - 01/10/17 11:25 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:
I think if you use the word story or "narrative" to describe particular cases of a streamlined thought it is pretty clear. This would be different from using the word "conspiracy". because it is particular and concrete. In a narrative, it is implied the voice is heard or can be heard by all people. conspiracy involves more whispers. It would be worth distinguishing. Maybe it is just a formal point though.




From my experience of your input, I would say I found your posts a bit hard to understand. I am guessing you have majored on Philosophy? And so much of what you say and how you say it goes over my head.

I personally come from a position to be AS clear as can be, so that anyone can fathom what I am saying. That is just my way. The first author I found after psychedelic experience who I gelled with was Alan Watts who, although very eloquent, does speak in a way that is very understandable to a broad spectrum of people, regarding the words he chooses.

I don't mean for you to take what I say next in a bad way. I am just telling you from my perspective, and do not expect you to change your style.

You did a thread recently about 'violence' and how it may be transmitted. I held off at the time saying that I find unfathomable words, and the way they may be put together to be a form of violence, like legalize, gobbledygook, and very 'philosophicy' kinds of speak that can cut those out from understanding and common discourse. So they are a power move to keep certain people out and/or controlled. 

So back to what I am trying to communicate. It is at least clear to me that a conspiracy depends ON a narrative, an official story, which people must feel immersed in as it is in the current narrative of there being a 'war on terror'. I am not sure why some people struggle to dig this.


Edited by zzripz (01/10/17 11:27 AM)


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997979 - 01/10/17 11:48 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Who is to say what is or isn't a good story? it all depends on the context, the person, the age of the person, and how the story affects that person on a personal level. To someone who has never had an addiction problem, the story of someone undergoing it will have a deeper affect on them than maybe someone who hasn't. IE it is subjective what makes a good story. Some people HATE Shakespeare!




Any one person's subjective emotional reaction to a story does not bear on that stories qualities-the things that make the story good or bad. One can easily like bad stories or dislike good ones. The idea is to get beyond one's emotional responses and look at the qualities and judge them.

Quote:

You judge my part dream to be trite. I was not asking for you to judge it, and that is NOT the point of why I described it. I meant/was trying to point out how we naturally create stories, NOT that we are all natural novelists :rolleyes:




You claim in the title of the thread that we have a 'natural storytelling genius'. Do you not know what the term genius means? PC nonsense about everyone being creative and everyone having a story to tell are just that-nonsense. Not everyone's story is worth telling and not everyone has the ability to tell a story in a quality way.

Quote:

And anyhow, IF you ever find yourself in a dramatic situation of trying to rescue someone in a river try calling it 'trite' then.




Actually experiencing something and hearing a story about something are completely different things.

Quote:

The whole point for me is to QUESTION false narratives as they are extremely dangerous, even for the ones not even knowing of them. Especially for them, because they are utterly mind-controlled by them.




I never said don't question false narratives. I just asked you what your silly assertion that we have a 'natural storytelling genius' brings to the table.

Your whole idea about a 'predatory elite' precludes that claim anyway, since if we had a natural genius for storytelling, we would all be able to construct good enough false narratives to pull the strings of the masses. If only a 'predatory elite' has that ability, that means that most people do not have that ability, hence have no 'genius' for storytelling.

Quote:

To me what I am saying is very clear. BECAUSE the deeper part of us is imagEination, this is a deep way propagandists can manipulate us. the ad industry does this, as does religious propaganda, and scientism, etc.




Once again some of your claims show others to be silly. If we are so imaginative and naturally gifted as storytellers, why is it that the majority of us can be so easily swayed by the false narratives of others? If we were so naturally gifted, we would be able to recognize these things. The fact is that most people are unimaginative and kind of stupid, and are thus easily given to being swayed by the false narratives of others.

Quote:

I have just quoted Edward Bernays (quoted above, from his book Propaganda) who actually confesses there is just that. A power structure that very well does share an agenda for more and more control over 'the masses'.




Sounds to me that you are accepting the narrative given by this one guy because it is in line with your ideas about a conspiracy. As you keep saying to others who disagree with you: maybe that is a story you are led to believe.

Yes, there are obviously conspiracies that are real. However, most conspiracies come out because people can't keep their mouths shut. Also, human incompetence basically guarantees that most conspiracies will fail, especially the more people who are involved.

Quote:

So back to what I am trying to communicate. It is at least clear to me that a conspiracy depends ON a narrative, an official story, which people must feel immersed in




Yes, conspiracies depend on a narrative, but conspiracy theorists also construct their own narratives, and each side ignores evidence that goes against their narrative. It is the rare person in the middle who can look at the actual evidence and weigh it against the various narratives to come closer to the reality of things.


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23997991 - 01/10/17 11:53 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I just mean that stories or narratives are as you say pretty natural to humans. My view is that most things that occur in ideological sphere and in any sort indoctrination, or commercialism in the media are also more or less natural. They basically work by the same mechanics of telling a story from a certain point of view that reaches a number of people.

I'd say you seem to bring up many good points, in that we are (historically, in our lives) embedded in a world so saturated with media that it can be disconcerting, but I was only saying I think conspiracy is the wrong way to interpret the situation. That may just be my style of thinking though.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: Kurt]
    #23998281 - 01/10/17 01:42 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:
I just mean that stories or narratives are as you say pretty natural to humans. My view is that most things that occur in ideological sphere and in any sort indoctrination, or commercialism in the media are also more or less natural. They basically work by the same mechanics of telling a story from a certain point of view that reaches a number of people.

I'd say you seem to bring up many good points, in that we are (historically, in our lives) embedded in a world so saturated with media that it can be disconcerting, but I was only saying I think conspiracy is the wrong way to interpret the situation. That may just be my style of thinking though.




Yes they are telling a story but are what I am calling toxic stories. Myths constructed to control, and make profit from. So in other words they exploit our natural inherent story telling genius in a similar to way to our inherent love and need for natural sugars are exploited. They substitute their toxic 'goods' which are harmful and cause diseases, even for little children. Likewise they substitue their toxic stories which they try and immerse us in so we are not even aware this is being done to us. Conspiracy!


We are not only saturated with media but also religious indoctrination, New Age ideas, political propaganda, scientism and occultism. So the diving into this subject, if freely explored is very interesting because you uncover the interconnectedness of all this,

As I briefly explained in a previous post the very term 'conspiracy' is a loaded term. The actual media uses it to explain 'low level crime', and I have heard them use the term over and over again in just a report lasting a minute! But dare use the term to question the larger authoritarian structure and THAT is when you get the term thrown at you in a derogatory way.

So OK, surely the critically reasonable thing to do next is wonder about the term itself. How has it come about it is being used one way and it is alright, but another way it is not. Had the CIA something to do with it being used to undermine th questioning of official STORIES? I would think that sounds about right:

Quote:

Professor Miller suggests that an attempt was orchestrated by the CIA and their friends in the media to soil the phrase 'conspiracy theorist' with connotations of craziness, noting that since 1980 it has taken on an almost purely perjorative connotation, as if the official narrative is never mistaken or mendacious. As Miller notes, the reverse was assumed to be true in the public discourse only a century or so back; distrust of authority used to be very common place, and formed the backdrop of a lot of political negotiations and some of the laws passed in USA. Conspiracy was formerly understood to be a potent force.
Nowadays however, the label 'conspiracy theorist' has become an ad hominem attack used on those with opinions which threaten the powers that be, as if anyone harboring such thoughts can be safely dismissed as a victim of irrational paranoia, possibly even mentally unbalanced or dangerous. The commercially-controlled media clearly have a commercial interest in casting suspicion on anyone whose primary source of information is elsewhere as inherently suspect, so it is easy to see why they might wish to repeatedly lump together patently absurd ideas together with well-founded doubts about the official narrative under a single label:'conspiracy theory' source[1]




Now a new term has joined it, 'fake news'. This is being used by politicians and their media to try and silence alternative stories which may uncover conspiracies. Great irony here. But many people will be oblivious to it. They will just accept what ever the TOXIC story is spinning them from the mass media.

So there needs to be talk about this. To face up to the strange matrix of interlocking storytimes we are all involved in. Wanna fall down the rabbit hole? then follow me~~~



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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23998300 - 01/10/17 01:49 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I'm convinced that zzripz or whatever his name is, is a disinfo government agent.  He has me on ignore, he knows better.  Think about it, what better way to convince someone is paranoid, than by being paranoid.

I actually agree with about 70 percent of what he says, it's that last 30% that is the bugaboo.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (01/11/17 07:09 AM)


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23998520 - 01/10/17 03:24 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

A conspiracy theory about the term conspiracy theory? Damn that's some meta shit.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #23999729 - 01/10/17 10:25 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
pathetic response and lack of to this inquiry IMO




you're consistent in presuming that people don't just naturally do this...make up pleasing stories for themselves to live by, and then to also assert your ideas on the world and people, to be subject to your story, whether by history, civics, or perhaps whatever else is brought to the fore. :shrug:


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24000397 - 01/11/17 07:22 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
A conspiracy theory about the term conspiracy theory? Damn that's some meta shit.




Another very good and important example of these double standards from the mainstream about the term of 'conspiracy'. In their 9/11 official STORY they have no problem using that term to support their absurd tale of 19 hijackers being able to dodge the most expensive defense in the world with boxcutters etc etc etc. Non whatsoever. BUT if you dare claim that other people were involved not mentioned in their story is when you get called conspiracy theorist, and 'nutjob' bla bla bla.

As the quote I provided above said, apparently earlier in history there was no judgement of calling out a possible conspiracy by government, and this is why that propaganda term was utilized by the CIA, at the time of the JFK assassination, so as to ridicule alternative stories of what happened, eg there being others involved other than Oswald, which they would also call now their new term, 'false news'.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #24000412 - 01/11/17 07:41 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
A conspiracy theory about the term conspiracy theory? Damn that's some meta shit.




Took you off ignore.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: Does a predatory elite exploit our natural storytelling genius to control us? [Re: zzripz]
    #24000742 - 01/11/17 10:26 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Another very good and important example of these double standards from the mainstream about the term of 'conspiracy'. In their 9/11 official STORY they have no problem using that term to support their absurd tale of 19 hijackers being able to dodge the most expensive defense in the world with boxcutters etc etc etc. Non whatsoever. BUT if you dare claim that other people were involved not mentioned in their story is when you get called conspiracy theorist, and 'nutjob' bla bla bla.

As the quote I provided above said, apparently earlier in history there was no judgement of calling out a possible conspiracy by government, and this is why that propaganda term was utilized by the CIA, at the time of the JFK assassination, so as to ridicule alternative stories of what happened, eg there being others involved other than Oswald, which they would also call now their new term, 'false news'.




People who think there is a larger conspiracy behind 9/11 and the JFK assassination are just as guilty of holding to their narratives against all evidence and ignoring evidence that does not bolster their narrative than people who believe the official narratives. Most of the time, their narratives are just as or even more absurd than the official ones. They are also just as guilty of disparaging the other side, as that is much easier to do than actually listen and consider.

Also, I like how you just ignored my long comment after berating me for not replying to you with anything of substance. Classic.


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