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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: & Re: timetraveller & kaiowas [Re: bandaid]
    #3003147 - 08/14/04 12:44 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Nature is not cruel, it is simply unyeilding. Fight against it and you will be destroyed, but flow with it and you shall be as nature intended.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: & Re: timetraveller & kaiowas [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3003161 - 08/14/04 12:49 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

exactly


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Offlinedeff
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Re: & Re: timetraveller & kaiowas [Re: Shroomism]
    #3003185 - 08/14/04 12:54 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Even if you fight against it, that struggle is still intentional through the chain of cause and effect that is nature.


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InvisibleLazerouth
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: bandaid]
    #3003440 - 08/14/04 02:46 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Nature is chaotic for sure but it's all in harmony.

Saaay if a snake eats a mouse. The mouse will be in alot of pain but the snake is deriving great pleasure from it's meal. Just as I'm sure scavengers will when the snake eventually dies and gets eaten.

For every action etc. I think it seems quite peaceful if you think of it like that.

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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: Lazerouth]
    #3003639 - 08/14/04 04:35 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The chief difference between everything organic on this planet and us humans is that everything else, like people have said, lives in harmony and has something to offer the environment. I know its a generalisation to say all humans don't live in harmony with nature or their Tao since there still exist an albeit diminishing population of tribes in various eastern countries who have a far better understanding of the importance of living with nature rather than on or against it. Living in London means I get a pretty good view of how disrespectful to nature humans can be :P

As for why I view nature blissfully... the site of a great forest with an ancient past (at least those that have thus far escaped human greed) is far more breathtaking than a city full of concrete and pollution. In the former, a variety of animals live together to some extent symbiotically, while in the latter, humans lead often angry lives which, if they do have direction, invariably leads to satisfying greedy appetites. Now, whether the other species in nature would be doing the same to the planet if they possessed our "intellect" and a dexterity, no one will know.

Sorry if that was a ramble...jst woke up. This thread actually finally got me to join this board :smile:

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3004062 - 08/14/04 10:41 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Fantastic.... welcome aboard :smile:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: Shroomism]
    #3004134 - 08/14/04 11:12 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I hardly call our role in nature "bad". Sure we may be destroying previous resourses and species, but change is inevitable. There is no way we will actually *destroy* the earth though, that's impossible.


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: deff]
    #3004260 - 08/14/04 12:16 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Well, we are already destroying the earth and inventing new ways of doing it all the time :P

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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: bandaid]
    #3004298 - 08/14/04 12:34 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The other day I came across an interesting scene.. 3 paralyzed baby squirrels lay on the ground, evidently thrown out of a tree by a full-grown squirrel. He was just finishing off the first one when I showed up, and the other two were barely moving. It took about 5 minutes for the squirrel to systematically kill them 1 by 1 by chewing their throats. When he was done, he went back to the first one and started canibalizing it.

Anyway,

it is always in balance
This is a common misconception. It's purported by environmentalists who contrast humanity's destruction of natural environments to the delicate harmonies of symbiosis. The truth is nature is in constant flux, never in balance. Temperatures change, mountains slide, forests burn.. there is no steady perfect state. Whenever a discussion comes up about humans destroying the environment, I like to point out that hundreds of millions of years ago almost every species on the planet earth was wiped out by blue green algae's release of the extremely toxic gas we call oxygen.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: deff]
    #3004334 - 08/14/04 12:49 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not worried about destroying the earth, I'm worried about destroying each other.


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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: Shroomism]
    #3006076 - 08/15/04 05:12 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

nature is both in balance and in flux simultaneously. the two needn't be mutually exclusive. the point is that no matter what change nature goes through, a balance is always achieved.

and shroomism, i couldn't agree more :frown:

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: bandaid]
    #3006168 - 08/15/04 05:40 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I think the sense of peace comes from viewing the beauty inherent in nature, along with embracing the fact that death/destruction is a part of nature.

Also, it seems rather pointless to separate nature from the creations of man; man is himself a part of nature so his creations are also a part of nature.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: trendal]
    #3006186 - 08/15/04 05:44 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

If that is true, then it is pointless to separate the countryside from a city?

Also, would you say that all our synthetic compounds like plastic are a part of nature?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3006210 - 08/15/04 05:55 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Separation is pointless. Grouping is not: the creations of man are a subgroup of nature.

Also, would you say that all our synthetic compounds like plastic are a part of nature?

They exist, don't they? Is not everything in existence a part of nature?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: trendal]
    #3008205 - 08/16/04 05:11 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Not necessarily, what exists that is created by nature or a natural product of nature is a part of nature. However, synthetic compounds that are in no way naturally-occurring cannot be considered a part of nature, for the simple reason that they are not naturally-occurring.

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Invisiblebandaid
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: Shroomism]
    #3008301 - 08/16/04 07:21 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
What do you mean poisoning, suffocation, bone crushing, etc etc.. that sounds more like cruel things humans do to each other than something nature does.



Its interesting you put it that way because these are regular things animals do to other animals every day. Its as if your trying to seperate the bad in nature as if it wasnt there and not accepting it, Im not saying your doing that but it sounds like it.

I dont think I actualy have to tell you which animals do these things, or do I.

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: trendal]
    #3008327 - 08/16/04 07:50 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Separation is pointless. Grouping is not: the creations of man are a subgroup of nature."

a very distinct point that I thought long and hard about.  humans need to catagorize things in order to make sense of them. 

on the other hand, an oil spill from a ship that goes under killing many animals in the water and air i find hard to "group" with nature, but maybe that's just me.  sure man is a part of nature, but does that mean we are to assume that man's creations are also a part of it?

more thinking needed.... :grin:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3008374 - 08/16/04 08:42 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Is man "naturally occuring"?

If so, does that make his creations "naturally occuring"?

If humans exist naturally, in the form that they do (with our creative urge) then is it not a natural occurance that we would "create" things?

Yes, it happens that (usually) one person or a small group of people are "responsible" for the creation of something "artificial". I don't think who "created" it is important, because someone would have. The "creation" is a natural byproduct of human existence, which is itself considered "natural".


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: kaiowas]
    #3008379 - 08/16/04 08:44 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

The separation of "man-made" from "natural" probably comes from the viewpoint that we are not a part of nature. I think if you see humans as a true piece of nature you must realize that our creations are also a part of nature.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineZoso_UK
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Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: trendal]
    #3008389 - 08/16/04 08:51 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, man is naturally occurring.

No, his creations are not thus automatically naturally occurring.

There are natural processes in the world and artificial processes. Indeed, these artificial processes (e.g. plastic) might be the product of a natural process (e.g. man). However, no matter how hard we try, we will never find these artificial processes occurring in nature. Although almost everything artificial that man produces in some way mimics a corresponding natural process, this does not make man's artifical creations natural. Particularly since they invariably subdue and destroy nature.

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