Home | Community | Message Board

MRCA Tyroler Gluckspilze
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]
InvisibleLazerouth
Drunkard

Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 1,091
Loc: England
Re: &amp;amp;amp;amp; Re: timetraveller &amp;amp;amp;amp; kaiowas [Re: deff]
    #3015263 - 08/18/04 04:22 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
Natural is a human symbol. It is not some objective state of being, and for that reason, it varies in meaning from person to person. You people are only debating the meaning of 'nature', when it can mean whatever you want.




I was trying to get to that but I wanted them to admit it themselves so it would be much more damning.  :evil:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 20,814
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: &amp;amp; Re: timetraveller &amp;amp; kaiowas [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3015323 - 08/18/04 04:31 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

So, just so I can be clear on your position, you believe all of mankind to be in harmony with nature in the same way every other animal is?

Oh no, certainly not. I take "harmony" here to mean something the same as balance...we are most certainly not in balance with our environment.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFliquid
Back from being gone.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 6,953
Loc: omotive
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: bandaid]
    #3016645 - 08/18/04 10:04 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bandaid said:
This is an age old question but I havent seen it posted on the shroomery so heres my bit.

Im not trying to suck the life out of ppls sense of nature, but I always found it sort of ironic when ppl say they try and find peace in nature when nature is by nature extremely cruel. You can view it as chaotic or not, and any of those views doesnt necessarily have to be bad, but with all the obvious agony that goes on, on a normal basis, such as poisoning, suffocation, bone crushing ect ect, how do you find yourself at "peace" with it?. Its all devised in nature, such a painfull form of existance, obviously the only one we're aware of but still, makes you think of what could be or could have been, and maybe even will be. As I see humans the only ones correcting all of this chaos, maybe not in the present but give it 1000yrs :tongue:. Maybe we where put here to make things well given enough time, or maybe not.

So.. how do you find yourself at "peace" with nature?, as I cant seem to grasp that concept very well at the moment.




The first thing that came up in my mind was "and they say t.v. is violent".
I guess we look at the beauty, and not the actual activities.
It's a good way of viewing.


--------------------
:dancing: My latest music! :yesnod:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineZoso_UK
Zepoholic

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 291
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: Fliquid]
    #3016951 - 08/18/04 11:59 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

So if we are definitely not in balance with nature, why then do you find it inconceivable to think that we could invent something unnatural (out of balance with nature)?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCJay
Dark Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 931
Loc: Riding a bassline
Re: &amp;amp; Re: timetraveller &amp;amp; kaiowas [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3017148 - 08/18/04 02:28 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Two humans can live lives diametrically opposed - say Hitler compared with Mother Theresa (obvious choices i know). One lifestyle must be unnatural, or both, but they cannot both be natural since that would break the law of non-contradiction. Two opposites cannot both be correct.
 


 

This is where I disagree with you. I personally feel that the contradiction we usually see is due to the level at which our verbal language currently exisists. Our human verbal language divides things into opposites, but I feel that is in effect a kind of species wide shortsighted view.

Our words are inherrently not the things they represent, they are signifiers. That's why I esentially agree with Deff on the issue of using the word natural. The nature (he heh) of our language means that to have 'natural' automatically, there must be 'unnatural'. I personally feel though that in life while things may not be black, doesn't mean they have to be white.

And in fact, much like the yin-yang, all things contain their opposite.

I'm sure we all use the metaphor 'unnatural' at times to describe things which are perfectly 'natural'. And for the purpose of describing a situation this may be a useful release for our emotions.

This is our language, not the thing our language points to.

Sure we may as individuals find much behaviour detestable, but it is a part of the learning experience of our species. Opposites are necessary to make the whole. What is a star without a blackhole? What is life without death? Where is the balance? What is the meaning? The universe would simply not be, the energy flow that it is could not be. Without passing through the dark spaces of consciousness, how would we ever know the light? How would we ever figure out where we are going and what we aspire to?  :sun:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineZoso_UK
Zepoholic

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 291
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: &amp;amp; Re: timetraveller &amp;amp; kaiowas [Re: CJay]
    #3017185 - 08/18/04 03:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting post. But perhaps human language does actually point to a fundamental truth that opposites do exist? It is our attempt to make sense of the world but that doesn't mean it is an erroneous one. I'm personally undecided on this because I haven't given it enough thought.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/18/01
Posts: 20,814
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3017235 - 08/18/04 04:14 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Zoso_UK said:
So if we are definitely not in balance with nature, why then do you find it inconceivable to think that we could invent something unnatural (out of balance with nature)?




Well I wouldn't say we are "out of balance with nature"...we are out of balance with other parts of nature. We are still a part of nature, and something which harms the environment here on Earth is no less a part of nature: it is simply out of balance with some other parts of nature.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineZoso_UK
Zepoholic

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 291
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: How do you view nature so blissfully? [Re: trendal]
    #3017302 - 08/18/04 05:07 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Good point :P


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCJay
Dark Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 931
Loc: Riding a bassline
Re: &amp;amp;amp; Re: timetraveller &amp;amp;amp; kaiowas [Re: Zoso_UK]
    #3022285 - 08/19/04 03:10 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yes I do agree that opposites do exist for sure; but I think they are necessary parts of the whole rather than aberations of each other. ie: within nature and within humanity (as a part of nature) opposites are, by the necessity of existence, entertwined to form the whole.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineZoso_UK
Zepoholic

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 291
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: &amp;amp;amp; Re: timetraveller &amp;amp;amp; kaiowas [Re: CJay]
    #3022307 - 08/19/04 03:22 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, my bad. I misunderstood your post :P


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* man v. nature
( 1 2 3 all )
DividedQuantumM 2,693 42 03/06/18 04:46 AM
by pineninja
* The Value of Nature
( 1 2 all )
jono 2,434 21 06/05/02 10:15 AM
by deepr
* Sadean literature and nature MokshaMan 1,416 6 09/30/01 10:25 AM
by Jellric
* ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ?
( 1 2 all )
lucid 2,725 26 05/28/03 08:56 PM
by atomikfunksoldier
* Male / Female Nature Adamist 1,817 15 07/08/02 04:03 AM
by Anonymous
* inconceiveably intelligent being
( 1 2 all )
bloodsheen 2,892 20 08/16/10 01:23 PM
by Ahimsa
* What is your view of human nature? z@z.com 4,627 19 04/03/03 06:53 AM
by Zero7a1
* Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? sox24 916 8 07/21/04 05:15 PM
by kaiowas

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
7,247 topic views. 2 members, 3 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2023 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.