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InvisibleMokshaMan
enthusiast
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 280
Sadean literature and nature
    #403696 - 09/25/01 04:20 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

For quite a while I've been aware of Sade and the fact that many see him as an "evil" person and his beliefs as evil; however, it hadn't been until more recently that I'd really sat down and read much of what he's written or what has been written about him. Needless to say, his "worship" of nature as a constructive and destructive force seems to me to be 100% correct. If this is true and man is "part of nature" isn't war and destruction an embedded response, an instinct if you will. And since nature has this two pronged nature, shouldn't man try to find either a way to control nature or better escape than we currently have? In all seriousness won't nature at some point seek to destroy us as it has every other extinct creature? If so, why aren't we trying to do more to move beyond the realm controlled by nature? I mean the space programs are moving at a snails pace, it's just been recently that they've claimed to have any success growing crops in space. While I believe in a creator, I believe he gave us free will to protect ourselves from nature and when I say ourselves, I mean the reassurance that our species will survive the next global destruction. Well ok, what do you think.

Edited by MokshaMan on 09/27/01 03:29 AM.



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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Sadean literature and nature [Re: MokshaMan]
    #405857 - 09/27/01 04:25 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Who is Sade? Are we talking about the marquis or the one who sang "Smooth Operator"? Seriously, I think knowing this person would help. If I take your point correctly, I'd have to say that we can never ever escape nature being inherantly part of it. We should work in harmony with it and not try to conquer it. Anyway, I hope this addresses your point or at least gets the ball rolling.



--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleMokshaMan
enthusiast
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 280
Re: Sadean literature and nature [Re: Jellric]
    #405863 - 09/27/01 04:37 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Sade the singer is not known for literature. I was referring to the Marquis. If we know that nature is going to at some point "turn" on us, why would we want to become more ingrained into it? I mean realistically, by living in little box that keep out other creatures, wind, rain, etc. we're already attempting to escape nature. And I hope that does help get the ball rolling...



--------------------
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Sadean literature and nature [Re: MokshaMan]
    #407979 - 09/29/01 02:41 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I agree that nature has both a constructive and destructive component. But escape, even if you think it's necessary, is absolutely futile due to the stubborn fact that nature is everywhere! Even if we manage to leave this Earth in significant numbers we will still always be subject to matter. There is no realm not controlled by nature. I guess you could live in a sterile spaceship for your entire life, but what kind of life would that be? Even then there would be dangerous radiation, asteroids, etc. And we would also be apart from some of the nurturing aspects our world provides.

I also don't think nature will "try to destroy us" unless we try to destroy her. Many people think we are in effect doing just that right now. But if we pack up and leave the planet, we will just carry those same attitudes to another planet and screw up things there as well. You can make a hell of heaven or a heaven of hell.

Since escape is impossible we merely need to be in balance and harmonize with nature. We are a part of her. Our bodies are made from her and depend upon her. Trying to control her could backfire bigtime. Legend says that is exactly what destroyed the fabled realm of Atlantis. We aren't wise enough yet to channel her forces globally in a balanced way that nourishes both her and us.



--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinemountainbiker
Stranger
Registered: 09/02/01
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Last seen: 15 years, 26 days
Re: Sadean literature and nature [Re: Jellric]
    #408226 - 09/29/01 01:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

but once we leave the planet we won't be sitting ducks for the next big extinction event. advancing technology and the mobility of space life will make the dangers of space lessen more and more. we will be able to recreate earth environments inside our 'sterile spaceships'. did the dinosaurs try to destroy nature? nope, they just got extinct.

Edited by mountainbiker on 09/29/01 12:17 PM.



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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 280
Re: Sadean literature and nature [Re: Jellric]
    #408249 - 09/29/01 01:47 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I don't believe that nature is everywhere, it's everywhere surrounding the sphere of earth. No I don't believe we need to immediately escape it, but why should we sit and wait to become extinct. Shouldn't we "rage against the dying of the light"? Radiation in space can be kept to levels low enough that it won't be a problem. I mean we can design suits that can go into nuclear reactors, what makes you think they couldn't design a ship to protect those inside from these dangers? Think about how beautiful it'd be to look out a window to watch a planet float into view and then out. If we were realistically to do this we'd clearly need to figure out a balance of plants to animal to keep the CO2, O2 levels acceptable. Of course we don't even know if people or any other animal can reproduce in space. And then there's the question of where would the water come from? I believe there's probably particles of ice and rock that could be collected and filtered so that there would be enough water. It'd be nothing like what we've forseen so far. It's also a lot easier to avoid asteroids in a little ship than it is on our planet. If you haven't been to Meteor Crater(in Arizona) and can ever get there, I highly recomend it. It puts into prospective the pure raw power of something crashing into earth. We would be apart from nature, but I don't know that I'd call it the most nurturing place in the world. Look at the African continent, what's nurturing these people? How about Afghanistan or China where there are severe droughts? What about when America was in the dust bowl? I'd hardly call these aspects of nature nurturing. Nature does not care about you or me or anyone else, although I tend to agree if we continue being as destructive as we've been nature will have little choice, but to remove us.

I'm glad that you think your species is important enough that nature would have problems wiping her from the slate of existance. I don't believe that. If you look at the amount of life that has continued to survive these are mainly instinctual animals. While I'll admit, we don't know if animals that can learn existed much before our time, I would suspect they did. I mean we're not the only animal that teaches our young. If instinctual animals are more likely to survive, doesn't this automatically add a mark against us since we're not instinctual. For example many types of insects have survived global catastrophe, sharks have as well(although I don't know under the sea is the same as in the air). I firmly believe that at some point nature will come to remove us and I want the species to continue beyond this devistation. I can't argue because you're right that you can make a hell out of heaven. If(this is a big if) we were to discover life outside the sphere of earth and it's simply more DNA, can we say that nature is the only creator of this? I don't think we could, then how would we be nature's beast and not merely a lucky result with a better chance than most for survival because we can escape this two faced animal called nature.

I'm not suggesting that we can simply say, oh we've used up this planet let's go someplace else. I think we do need a more balanced approach within the confines of nature. I mean we're already playing with the basic design of nature(genetic engineering), creating things that are unnatural. I mean it's not even like it's a real science, a very inexact science to say the least. It very much has become an us vs. it, and can not continue indefinately. But there are things that are us vs it, earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, volcano erruptions, drought, etc and we need to face the fact that we can fall victim to nature as easily as an other beast. Since that's true, I don't see how we don't try to create some sort of reassure our species will survive. Of course if we simply can't agree, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That would mean we'd simply have to accept the fact we can't alter the other's view. Well that's more than my 2 cents, hopefully someone else will perk up and add their opinion and I'll shut up a while about it :)!



--------------------
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Sadean literature and nature [Re: MokshaMan]
    #408869 - 09/30/01 03:25 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

"I don't believe that nature is everywhere, it's everywhere surrounding the sphere of earth." Ok, we're dealing with terrestrial nature here then. No, I couldn't go to the crater in Arizona because materialists have roped it off and are charging admission to see it..crazee..There is no volcano that can destroy all humans. There is no earthquake that can destroy all humans...etc,

I agree with most of what both of you said..I feel strongly that we should explore outer space just as we explored our home planet. I do think it's virtually impossible to have an event that annihilates humanity. The dinosaur extinction occured over many, many years and we have minds that can adapt. But even something that killed two thirds of us would probably end civilization which would be a terrible catastrophic event that we can never let happen. We should explore outer space and expand mans' address. But nature is always with us. In our bodies and in subatomic particles, the plants and microbes we bring with us, and everything we encounter in the material universe. Those same forces are eternal and always present in different forms. So I think we should harmonize with them wherever we are. And increase knowledge with an equal advance in love.





--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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