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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ?
    #1565180 - 05/21/03 10:10 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Would u rather live in an ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare (I realize that the latter may be a contradiction in terms) ? what I mean is would u rather not know anything and be a happy fool or would u rather observe/analyse even if it means finding out something terrifying and horrible ? If u seek to draw a balance, how would u do so ?
Just wondering if others have pondered this...
Thanks :-)


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: lucid]
    #1565318 - 05/21/03 11:48 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I'd rather live in enlightened bliss


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
Clearly Retarded
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 1,698
Loc: Construction ahead...
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1565321 - 05/21/03 11:49 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'd rather live in enlightened bliss






--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #1565374 - 05/21/03 12:05 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I could see that comming ;-)
seriously tho what do u think ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Anonymous

Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: lucid]
    #1565401 - 05/21/03 12:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I do not equate ignorance with bliss. Ignorance can be peaceful but I think true bliss in something beyond mere peace.

If you had asked about a state of innocence my reply would have been different.

Although innocence contains an element of ignorance it is something more than that.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: ]
    #1565724 - 05/21/03 02:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hi Mr Shrooms,

"I do not equate ignorance with bliss. Ignorance can be peaceful but I think true bliss in something beyond mere peace."
I wasn't "equating" ignorance with bliss, rather it was a hypothetical "would u rather not know something if there is a chance that it might be frightning/unpleasant". Also, I was wondering if a person would consider living their life by this rule/or not.
I wasn't implying that ignorance leads to bliss. Rather, if one is in bliss, would one choose to stay ignorant for fear of losing the bliss if one finds out too much...
I hope I put that coherently.

I'm also curious how u define innocence as being seperate from ignorance. Do u mean that innocence is a state where one may want to know more but simply hasn't discovered things yet (akin to the state of a curious child), where as ignorance is a choice where one decides that one would rather not know more (akin perhaps to some religious minded folks who would rather "not listen" to others so to speak).

Thanx :-)


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibletrendalM
King of Asides
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,976
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: lucid]
    #1565749 - 05/21/03 02:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Curiosity killed the cat.

It may kill trendal, too  :wink:

I choose the nightmare. I'm too curious.


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BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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Invisibletak_old
Endo Smoke

Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 609
Loc: State of confusion
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: trendal]
    #1566014 - 05/21/03 03:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I chose to think, and I dont think I can go back. I hope this path leads to bliss. Ive been pretty happy so far.


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InvisibleTeragon
Noddy

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 36,253
Loc: Lost in the Patterns
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: tak_old]
    #1566714 - 05/21/03 07:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Tak, I must know where you got that avatar. It's been pulling connections in my brain for a while now and it just got to be too much. How do I know that picture?


--------------------
need that cash to feed them jones.


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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 11 years, 22 days
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: Teragon]
    #1566720 - 05/21/03 07:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

If you were truely enlightened, it wouldn't be a nightmare.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1566779 - 05/21/03 07:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)


True.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: trendal]
    #1566978 - 05/21/03 09:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Curiosity killed the cat.
It may kill trendal, too  :wink:
I choose the nightmare. I'm too curious. 




Curiousity didn't kill the cat... the next door neighbor's dogma killed it.
The poor cat couldn't have been run over, because the karma was busy holding down the driveway until the mechanic comes back from vacation.  :wink: 


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: lucid]
    #1567239 - 05/21/03 10:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yes.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: lucid]
    #1567680 - 05/22/03 12:37 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

A couple years back, I wrote this poem for my high school literary magazine:

Lucky Frog

A frog sits
on the muddy bank
of a small, sparkling stream.

He lives contentedly
in his own little world.
Unaware

of the absolutely
immense universe
that lies beyond his own.

He doesn't know sadness.
He doesn't think about
life after death

or worry what the other frogs
will think of him.
He doesn't ponder

the meaning of life
or consider
committing suicide.

He doesn't go to sleep at night
crying over the fear
of being alone

For the rest of his life.
He doesn't wonder why
the sun rises

and sets every day,
nor does he think
about the possibility of life

on some faraway planet.
He doesn't even know
what the word

God means,
let alone consider
the existence of one.

Imagine that!
His only worry
is when his next meal

will come
buzzing along.
I wish I were a frog.

THE END.

I use that as an example to show that at one point in my life, I believed I would rather live in ignorant bliss.  Some might argue that bliss isn't ignorant, but hey; I know what you mean by that term.  The precise diction isn't important as long as comprehension is obtained.

Anyway... That was a couple years ago.

Now, I don't care what the cost is, but I would rather seek enlightenment.  As to whether I would choose to live in enlightened nightmare rather than ignorant bliss; I am not so sure. 

At this time in my life I don't know which is more important to me--enlightenment, or bliss.  I could live the ignorantly blissful life.... conform, do what society wants me to do, placify myself with television and alcohol and maybe a nice little house and a pet dog.  Or I could life in a nightmare of enlightenment....  Wait a minute?!

I thought enlightenment meant bliss?!  So how could it be a nightmare :crazy:

Now I'm confused.  :confused:

-RebelSteve  :grin: 

P.S.  In the 11'th stanza of my poem, I use the phrase "let alone."  Did I make that shit up, or is it really a phrase?  It just sounds weird to me.  Like, it shouldn't mean what it means, but you can tell what it means anyway?  Or maybe I'm just crazy?


--------------------
Namaste.


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Anonymous

Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1567702 - 05/22/03 12:45 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

If you were truely enlightened, it wouldn't be a nightmare.

not even close. maybe if you had selective "enlightment" but if you truly seek to question everything out there, you will come face to face with some pretty dark corners.... its your choice to accept them or not.. i'm sure you can disregard it and go on to "happy" enlightment, but then again that would render your "enlightment" nothing more than a bucket of crap.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: ]
    #1567720 - 05/22/03 12:54 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

not even close. maybe if you had selective "enlightment" but if you truly seek to question everything out there, you will come face to face with some pretty dark corners.... its your choice to accept them or not.. i'm sure you can disregard it and go on to "happy" enlightment, but then again that would render your "enlightment" nothing more than a bucket of crap.




Well of course there are going to be dark corners along to the way to enlightenment. Corners so dark you cannot even imagine, probably.

But I think what Earth Droid is saying when he says truly enlightened, is that the ultimate goal of enlightenment--the highest level of enlightenment, you might say--is to reach pure and total bliss.

At least that's what it means to me.

So I think the original hypothetical question is not even a valid one.

-RebelSteve


--------------------
Namaste.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: ]
    #1567731 - 05/22/03 12:56 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yes




Haha!  :grin: 


--------------------
Namaste.


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Anonymous

Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1567755 - 05/22/03 01:02 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

But I think what Earth Droid is saying when he says truly enlightened, is that the ultimate goal of enlightenment--the highest level of enlightenment, you might say--is to reach pure and total bliss.

you state "truly" as if it equates with certain happiness because of your "enlightened" state. i'd like to know the details in this... what if becoming "enlightened" shows you everthing you thought had hope and beauty, is merely an illusion.. even the concept of yourself is an illusion. there is nothing to live for because nothing is real.... i'm sure you can come to happier conclusions, but don't mix your ego in with "enlightenment" because that will only cloud the true meaning of our existence. i'm not saying you can't go on a journey of exploration and be rewarded, but to deny obvious demons that lie in the path... or in the CONCLUSION of our journey is just being ignorant to the fact that we have no idea what "enlightenment" really is.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: ]
    #1567800 - 05/22/03 01:13 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

i'm not saying you can't go on a journey of exploration and be rewarded, but to deny obvious demons that lie in the path... or in the CONCLUSION of our journey is just being ignorant to the fact that we have no idea what "enlightenment" really is.

This is true. We cannot pretend to discuss what enlightenment means when neither of us have actually experienced it on our own. I guess I was being close-minded in assuming that the only result of enlightenment could be bliss. The fact is, it could be a nightmare, but I really have no way of knowing.

Hmm.... In that case,

for right now at least.... seeing as how I am only 19 and am still fairly blissfully ignorant.... i think i will stick with being a lucky frog.

thank you,

RebelSteve



--------------------
Namaste.


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Invisibletak_old
Endo Smoke

Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 609
Loc: State of confusion
Re: ignorant bliss or an enlightned nightmare ? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1567897 - 05/22/03 01:50 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)



Edited by tak (05/22/03 01:51 AM)


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