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Registered: 06/17/03
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Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering?
    #2910601 - 07/21/04 12:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I've had a hard time recently trying to figure out how to live. I am a 23 year old white male in America. I am so very lucky in life. I have experienced both extreme bliss and suffering through psychedelics and just thinking about life.

Are we to live in harmony with nature or are we to go hit misery head on and fight it in a life long struggle? Didn't the Buddah say that we are to live each day as a struggle? Anyone have any thoughts? Even though I know there are no boundaries, that every thing can be both ways, I still think I need to choose one or the other. This seems like one of the things in life you need to make a decision about. Life is a roller coaster regardless, but this thread is about personal philosophy. Do you pursue happiness or helping other people in the way that they really need helped?

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President of theUnited States

Registered: 02/02/04
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Re: Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? [Re: sox24]
    #2910744 - 07/21/04 01:12 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"If you feel empty, go give."

-Dr. Phil


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altered statesman

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Re: Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? [Re: sox24]
    #2910749 - 07/21/04 01:14 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Do you pursue happiness or helping other people in the way that they really need helped?

I'll tell you a little secret..

They are one and the same.

I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Invisiblemr crisper

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? [Re: sox24]
    #2910798 - 07/21/04 01:28 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

once read this somewhere -
'life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% your attitude towards it'

suffering or bliss comes into the 90% section.

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Re: Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? [Re: sox24]
    #2910816 - 07/21/04 01:35 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

It goes both ways. At times, you will need help, and there will be people to help you, in their capacity. At other times, people around you will need help, and you will be there to help them, in your capacity.

In the meantime, just live, and do what you are supposed to do.

The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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tangential derivation
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Re: Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? [Re: sox24]
    #2910841 - 07/21/04 01:41 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'm with Jellric on this one...knowing I've added a little clarity to the lives of those around me makes me a little more happy in this life.

Yes...this life is a struggle. I don't think it's a "fight", though, as that tends to bring the idea to mind that life is an enemy (do you fight those you love? or your enemies?). Life is most certainly NOT an enemy...as it's about all I truely have in this world: my Life, and these things called "experiences" that I seem to pick up now and then :wink:

Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? [Re: sox24]
    #2910867 - 07/21/04 01:46 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Why must we chose one of the other. It is all about BALANCE. The Ying and the Yang. Buddhism and its philosophy is only one interpretation of the meaning/goals of life. Toaism states, "we shape clay to birth a vessel, yet it's the hollow within that makes it useful. Thus, do we create what is to use what is not."

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Re: Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? [Re: RamboBarbie]
    #2910922 - 07/21/04 01:59 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I don't believe that if you feel empty then go give. I think doctor phil is an idiot at times. There are things you can do for people that make you feel good, but those are rarely the things that do people any real good. What people need is complete honesty and so many times that's difficult to give.

I don't think you can have a balance, you have to push your spirit off towards either side of the ocean. Of course if you could go both ways they would meet on the other side. And the indicators that point to that we do choose both things is the balance you speak of. I think a lot of people just say balance and harmony as a way of never making any decisions. Decisions is the name of the game I believe.

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mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Re: Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? [Re: sox24]
    #2911568 - 07/21/04 10:15 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"Throughout our days while we are awake, we go through emotional ups and downs that constatnly disturb the continuous peace, or bliss, that we all could have. Throughout the day life will put us into situations that many of us time and again chose not to learn from. We try to impose our will on life situations, and this leads to our unhappiness. I'm talking about happiness even on the smallest of scales, the little things in life that often "irks" us. I want to propose a very ancient idea that could help many of our problems once and for all. the idea goes something like this, "the more you impose your will on life situations, the more you will find yourself feeling negative." It's our self-righteous ideas that our ego uses to keep us trapped in the social matrix. many of us are unhappy because we are trying to find enough security, sex, pleasant sensations, ego rushes, prestige, money, power and status. this struggle yields lives of constant resentment, worry, suspicion, anger, jealousy, shyness, and fear. most people tell themselves they must do something in order to be happy, this ends up yielding more frustration than joy. The more successful a person is in making money, collecting skills and possessions, aquring knowledge and degrees, and achieving positions of status, power, and prestige, the less loving peaceful, and contented they may find themselves.

And yet it is not these things in and of themselves that create an unhappy life, it is the internal mental feeling about the desires for them that minute by minute keeps one from enjoying life 99% of the time. Addictions (or emotional backed demands) bring fear of non-fullfillment; jealousy that someone may steal our source of fullfillment; anger when someone twarts us; cynicism if constantly undersupplied; paranoia if constantly threatened; boredom if we're making no progress towards statisfying our addictions (emotional backed demands); worry if we can't see the steady supply; anxiety if we're worried about being worried; and unhappiness when the outside world does not supply is with whatever we are addicted to. Common sense tells us that the way things go in life is that ?you win some and you lose some.? Think on this for a second and you will know it is true. Since this is the case an addicted person has no chance of living a happy life over 90% of the time( ie being loving, peaceful, wise and effective.) The addictive programming is not necessary to find and enjoy that which we prefer in life.

We will be ready for this type of growth into a constant supply of happiness when you realize the utter futility of trying to live a beautiful life by your efforts to rearrange or change the world of people and things outside of you to fit your emotional backed demands. We will find time and again, that imposing your will on any situation will time and again leave you disappointed. Thinking about rearranging your own personal responses to life situations...(things that we learned in our childhood which was necessary so we survived when we were young) is a great way to be able to consciously maintain a state of bliss. As we start growing, we will find that we have always had enough to be happy. It is the patterns in our heads that make us unhappy, although we tend to blame the world and conditions outside of us for our unhappiness.

This does not require you to detach yourself from your present life. Serenity can be used most efficiently if we stay with our current business and personal life. Once we understand this system thoroughly, you won't need a teacher. Our lives will be the best teacher for we will discover that we are always putting ourselves in learning situtions that are ideal for growth. The programming that we must change has an unerring way of putting us into life situations that can make us aware of the exact inner work we need to do. This will add to the enjoyment of life all around, especially when things seem to "go wrong".

Think of all the energy we put now into the up and down hour by hour coping with our feelings, continually trying to rearrange the people and situations in our lives so that we can be loving, effective, and happy. And yet, year by year our quest may be as elusive as ever. Since almost everyone around us has trouble in becoming happy 95% of the time, we may have lowered our standards and decided that continuous happiness is probably not realistic. Let's get rid of this notion and up our standards, after all, we are worth it!

Most of us assume that our desires (backed up by emotional feelings) are true guides to doing the things that will make us happy. But here?s the kicker, no one has yet to find happiness by using emotional backed demands as guides. Flashes of pleasure...sure, happiness...no.

our wants and desires are so seductive...they are thought of as needs that must be satisfied so we can be happy at last. we tell ourselves "if I can jsut become president of this compnay, or if I jsut make this much money, I will be happy." It is fine to aquire these positions, and to aquire money, but it may be misleading to expect it to bring us peace, love and happiness. "if only..." so we search for these external situations, we trust in them. Common sense tell us that in life you win some and you lose some and when we lose some, we lose even more when we depend our happiness upon it. This is the idea of acceptance of people and life in general and most importantly, accepting yourself.

our negative emotions are a misleading result of an extensive pattern of scars we have experienced. This is what I like to call unhappines through repetition. When we were young, we were yelled at, told ?not to do this? and ?that?s not good for you.? We needed this though because if we didn?t listen, many of us could have seriously hurt ourselves. Fear needed to be instilled in us while we were young for our very own survival. It was how we learned our lessons to make wiser decisions. Pain is one of these lessons, as evident if you touch a hot stove once more than likely you won?t do it again. If you are reading this though, you have reached a point where you don?t need to operate from that standpoint anymore for survival. Most of us still operate from this level, because it is all we really know. Yes love and happiness as been there just as much as negativity, but now is a really great time to start on making love and being happy nearly all the time.

we haven't had the chance yet to understand and love on a continuous basis..so we think it's not possible. it is how we have dealt with emotions that lead us to percieve differences that make us uptight, instead of similarities that enable us to understand and love. we percive other people and situations as threats when we rely on the external world and situations for our happiness. we respond with adrenaline, faster heartbeat, increase in blood sugar, and other jungle survival responses that prepare us for fight or flight.

think about some of the threatening situations you have felt in the last day or two. are you going to lose your job? is the person for whom you feel the most love paying attention to somone else than you? do you have unpaid bills that you cannot take care of? now these problems either have solutions or they don't. either you can do something about them now, or you can't. if you can do something about it, then do it, even if it's jsut a first step. don't dwell on the situation, yes think about it, but not dwell, this doesn't lead to getting th problem fixed. if you are in the process of fixing it, but it'll take some time, stop dwelling while you're doing it. if you are doing what you can, then feeling negative about it doesn't help, it just hurts your mind, the body, and possibly the situation. you energy will be drained when you are worried or axious about a problem. do what you can do, but don't be addicted to the results or else you will creat more worry. if you can't do anything about it right now, then why make yourself uncomfartable about it, save that energy for when you CAN do something about it. these negative emotions in non life threatening situations jsut lowers insight and effectiveness of our actions.

if you do not hassel yourself emotionally when the outside world doesn't fit your demads (as it often does) you will be much more joyous, and really appreciate each moment of you life. we need to learn to flow with the people and things around us, because after all, we are all different, and no one is going to conform jsut for you. since we are conscious beings, the only thing we need to find happiness in life is to perceive clealy who we are, and what exactly are the real conditions. in order to do this, we need to do some inner work, and we will do this through repetition.

The best thing of all is that you can still think you are right...and you can still do what you do, we can keep that. this is about creating a better world inside first...before dealing with the external one. one hting at a time why wouldn't you want to better yourself? do you feel that other people don't have something to offer? I already pointed out the fact that everyone is different. it's not about acting the same at all. it's about using the ego and the rational mind to provide clarity within. some people are shy (like myself) around others because they judge themselves or don't accept the situation.

Look at how your mind works and processes information. be in control of your feelings. when you feel something negative, look at what happened around you that triggered that specific negative emotion. this way when the same thing happens again you'll be able to adjust and handle the situation with a much clearer head. we try to manipulate the world around us and we may get satisfied for a bit...but then we "need" something more.

Ever get bored? don't you hate being bored? often giving a sigh and depleting your energy even more, and then what...you're still bored. so then we try to buy things to keep us entertained, and while that may last for a little bit, it is normally short lived. look at why you are bored and then realize that at this moment you can feel not bored. you can do nothing at all and still be content. what about when something goes wrong...does feeling angry or upset ever help the situation? here's an example to illustrate what I'm referring to...

i was on the freeway on my way to a job interview when my tire blew out. After nearly colliding with the car next to me, I pulled over. When I got out of the car I proceeded to scream at the tire. I cursed the person who threw the glass on the ground, I cursed at the dealership that sold me the tire, I cursed at the whole situation because out of everyone, I was the single person to hit that glass. From there my ego took over, I started making assumptions about the future. I figured I wouldn't get the job now, I figured that it would be a couple of hours before I even got my car off the road, and now my whole day was ruined. And the kicker to all of this is that after a good fifteen minutes of dwelling on everything and making myself feel exhausted, I was still left with a flat tire!

Life will rarely ever go perfect for us, and feeling negative about it only hurts us more. It's why many of us feel we are trapped in hell, and it's true. We create it for ourselves."

ken keyes...handbook to higher consciousness

this is jsut from the first 3-4 pages, and every page is like these. 

it's a very cheap book and I haven't hear from one person who said that it didn't help them.  well actually, you're just really helping yourself :wink:

Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie

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