Icelander said:

Well I will try to explain something I'm not sure of.

I agree that without our ego structure we would be dead.

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Sinbad said:

Do u believe that being in a state of unconditioned naturalness would be a disability of some sort?

Of course, in that state of pure "awareness" that realizes "egolessness", there can be walking, talking, and all kinds of activities. Being in a non-dual state doesn't disable one from performing relative activities. You can do all these things, and not be conditioned by any of them.

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Quote:

Sounds like a load of nonsense! Recognizing that our ego-structure is a complete fabrication of our minds, and as such, has no real existence, is to be free from the illusion that there was ever any independently, self-existing being in the first place.

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It may sound like a load of nonsense to you. I understand completely. That's pretty much how most of the stuff you lay out sounds to me. You make claims constantly that are pure conjecture. That you found in some book or some "teacher" told you. At least I am honorable enough (non egotistical ) to admit that I'm not sure.

justamonkey said:

I know this might sound kind of awkward and possibly paradoxical, but here goes:

1. No one's experiences in this world composed of social agreements is the same, because uniqueness itself is an understood agreement.

2. The sum of difference between one mind and the next, the mind being linear with or without its own perception of what "true" time, is experiences that the mind has from moment to moment and stores them up, I believe this true for all creatures, resulting in personality.

3. The ego develops when the mind perceives that in regard to others, it's experiences have been better or worse, and then it takes the credit for all of the positive experiences, and shuns the ones that were bad or the ones it didn't like. When we force ourselves to take responsibility for everything that happens to us, we take personal responsibility for ourselves and realize that we have ultimate control over our actions and thoughts. This leads to a form of what I think of as Ego integration, where the mind then uses it's own ego as a tool, if the mind in question is truthful enough to itself to admit that it has one, and everyone does.

4. Thus the human being exists, unique and yet the same. Different and complex accumulations of experiences and evaluations of those experiences in an agreed upon reality. All of which are departmentalized, assigned attributes and qualities, all superficial, by the Ego. Afterward we think about those events, if we are responsible for ourselves, and reassign the correct attributes and qualities that we would or think we would, have gotten if the Ego had never been. Therefore, it is the mind's ultimate goal of clear and responsible action to remove the Ego and return to the unambitious but goal oriented state. Essentially, becoming an intelligent animal with the ability to take responsibility and assume a integral and naturally joyous life, regardless of "experiences"

5. It may sound wild, but the very thought of an ideal life is programmed into your head from birth, what makes you believe that there is a single family or person in the world that has successfully had a 100% delusional happy life right up until they died? That's never happened. Or rather, everyone's life is ideal, they just choose not to take responsibility and they choose not to act upon the truth and their own participation in the illusion becomes deeper and more concrete.

6.We have, in large part, not a case of "What has happened to me?" but instead, this world should be more truthful with itself and say, "What hasn't happened to me?" The ideal life is being alive in the first place, to compare yourself to someone else is irrelevant because you are not that person, you cannot be, the agreement of uniqueness is held by every mind that ever existed, or will exist, and I believe that is essential to keep personal responsibility strong in those of us who wish to have it. Otherwise, you really could say, "But that didn't happen to so and so."

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Thats an interesting perspective.

But do you consider that the ego actually exists, or that, as a fabrication of the mind, the consideration of ego is removed when we see clearly that it really doesnt exist?