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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Did the Buddha teach egolessness?
    #11278144 - 10/19/09 05:30 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Not according to the Pali canon which is the oldest surviving writings from back in the day. You can do a search through the whole shabang and won't find a single entry on it.

The ego is a tool to function in the world.

Probably obvious for most, but quite new to me who actually believed I had to reach for a state where the ego was surrendered to the bigger picture which would take me over and make me an automaton of some sort. What I did not discover at first is that I am mostly an automaton already and my job is to gain that control back.

This lead me into lots of trouble. Lots and lots of delusions. :lol:

Much of the reason for this was a lack of courage to really investigate myself and I think I used the philosophy of egolessness to avoid taking responsibility for my actions.

I know this has been talked about much in here so I could have caught on long ago. But sometimes it is hard to break shackles that serves to protect something dear - self-importance. Or rather it is a sort of death to give up something that has defined us for a long time. It is just another refuge.

:smile:

Peace.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11278202 - 10/19/09 05:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Buddha spoke of 'anatta' relentlessly in the Pali

The teaching of 'anatta' is the same as egolessness
It is a process of disidentifying with form
Which is what the ego is - identification with form


:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


Edited by Chronic7 (10/19/09 05:49 PM)


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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Posts: 667
Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: Chronic7]
    #11278243 - 10/19/09 05:49 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Do you identify with anything at all? Or should I say anything or all?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11278373 - 10/19/09 06:12 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
Do you identify with anything at all?


If his answer is yes, would you just knee-jerkingly believe him? :shrug:


Quote:

rebus_minus said:
Or should I say anything or all?


Do whatever the fuck pleases you, even if Chronic777 doesn't agree with your style of hedonism.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: Chronic7]
    #11278396 - 10/19/09 06:16 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

But 'form' just is another 'tool'... and an expression for the self.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11278447 - 10/19/09 06:23 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
Do you identify with anything at all? Or should I say anything or all?




I can not identify with any particular thing, nor can i identify with every thing
As every thing appears & passes, so no 'thing' can be held onto to then say 'this is me'


:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: Poid]
    #11278499 - 10/19/09 06:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

rebus_minus said:
Do you identify with anything at all?


If his answer is yes, would you just knee-jerkingly believe him? :shrug:


Quote:

rebus_minus said:
Or should I say anything or all?


Do whatever the fuck pleases you, even if Chronic777 doesn't agree with your style of hedonism.




Are you serious?


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: Chronic7]
    #11278520 - 10/19/09 06:34 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I think this ability rests on a healthy ego-structure though.

What is it in you that craves weed when you give it up?

Maybe the answer is habit.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: Chronic7]
    #11285817 - 10/20/09 07:10 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Buddha spoke of 'anatta' relentlessly in the Pali

The teaching of 'anatta' is the same as egolessness
It is a process of disidentifying with form
Which is what the ego is - identification with form


:peace:



anatta is not the same as egolessness (i.e. an intangible/spiritual goal?)
it is about the void character of self (i.e. a direct observation of what is)
it is about the essential mechanics of self
not about the identification or non-identification that people are entangling with ego and non-ego.

anatta is probably beyond the average person's comprehension, so it gets fouled into something else.

the abhidhamma describes pretty much everything that goes into consciousness and that more or less objectifies mental experience to the point that anatta is obvious.

but abhidhamma came after buddha.
I think it was a good thing to follow.

ego was not such a big thing - buddha was more about how to practice meditation and follow a middle way in life, realize dhamma and see change etc.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11285919 - 10/20/09 07:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

The Buddha taught laziness and irresponsibility. Being a wandering bum is not a great achievement.


--------------------


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11285933 - 10/20/09 07:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

yet he somehow managed to start a religion that has had millions upon millions of followers

that's a bit of an achievement :sun:


--------------------



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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11287340 - 10/20/09 10:29 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The Buddha taught laziness and irresponsibility. Being a wandering bum is not a great achievement.





Yeah, I agree, Buddha didn't fulfill his potential. :P He could have invented the mix master instead.

The irony. :lol:


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11287368 - 10/20/09 10:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Can you link me to a good translation of the abhidhamma?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11287549 - 10/20/09 10:47 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The Buddha taught laziness and irresponsibility. Being a wandering bum is not a great achievement.



that's really silly
you can't do meditation if you are lazy in the least
but wandering bum on the downtime works for me.


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Offlineoxalic32
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11288159 - 10/20/09 11:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The Buddha taught laziness and irresponsibility. Being a wandering bum is not a great achievement.




How do you find the time to write worthless posts?


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11289845 - 10/21/09 03:53 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
ego was not such a big thing - buddha was more about how to practice meditation and follow a middle way in life, realize dhamma and see change etc.




I like your take on anatta.

But that 'Buddha was not such a big thing' seems like a feigned attempt to come across as a reasonable or true practitioner of Buddhism, one who has somehow avoided or by sheer brilliance resisted then fact that Buddha's religion (founded on taming mind games and egoistic desires) became the greatest ego-cult ever known.



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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11289851 - 10/21/09 03:54 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The Buddha taught laziness and irresponsibility. Being a wandering bum is not a great achievement.




He also taught that males should abandon their wife and children whenever they feel their midlife crisis coming on.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11289894 - 10/21/09 04:06 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

It makes sense that Buddha would not teach about something which is an illusion. Ego is a convenient word, useful in pointing out when we have created attachment to form. Attachment to form would be that which prevents us from knowing our true nature. It's ego, but it's an idea that springs forth duality. It's karma, it's confusion, sparkling lights on the outside and inside. It's the separation, the enemy, the King with a lonely crown, the hunger and no meal, the love and no reciprocation, death and life. It can be pointed out through any example of polarity, as both the positive or negative. So to create "ego" as form would defeat the whole purpose of enlightenment.

"Ego" seems useful, but perhaps it draws the attention from the real task?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“Avalanches start as snowflakes. Little things matter.”


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11290746 - 10/21/09 11:03 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

anatta is not the same as egolessness (i.e. an intangible/spiritual goal?)
it is about the void character of self (i.e. a direct observation of what is)
it is about the essential mechanics of self
not about the identification or non-identification that people are entangling with ego and non-ego.





I only go off of Buddhas definition of anatta:

[Samyutta Nikaya] At one time in Savatthi, the venerable Radha seated himself and asked of the Blessed Lord Buddha: “Anatta, anatta I hear said venerable. What pray tell does Anatta mean?” “Just this, Radha, form is not the self (anatta), sensations are not the self (anatta), perceptions are not the self (anatta), assemblages are not the self (anatta), consciousness is not the self (anatta). Seeing thusly, this is the end of birth, the Brahman life has been fulfilled, what must be done has been done.”

This is a process of disidentifying Self with form
Its what he said himself :shrug:

Its about void chacter of self, as you say
Which is the same exact thing as egolessness
What else is ego but an attempt to define character of self in form?
Perhaps our egos have different definitions of egolessness :lol:

All of Buddhas teachings of
Impermanence of all phenomena (anicca)
Unfulfillment inherent in all pheonmena (dukkha)
the Self not being defined by any phenomena (anatta)
Are all methods of seeing through the ego by recognizing its fleeting nature, how it jumps from form to form, from birth to birth identifying

Its all about attachment, about seeing through what it is that attaches in the first place


Perhaps you just cant see it possible that i really do understand these things

And I dont blame you for that...

:peace:


--------------------
________________________________


Edited by Chronic7 (10/21/09 11:25 AM)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Did the Buddha teach egolessness? [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11290947 - 10/21/09 11:58 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

rebus_minus said:
Do you identify with anything at all?


If his answer is yes, would you just knee-jerkingly believe him? :shrug:


Quote:

rebus_minus said:
Or should I say anything or all?


Do whatever the fuck pleases you, even if Chronic777 doesn't agree with your style of hedonism.




Are you serious?


Just tell me what you wanna say...:yawn:



Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The Buddha taught laziness and irresponsibility. Being a wandering bum is not a great achievement.


Damn, so I was conned by a fat-ass lazy wandering Asian bum who was always shooting them ol' shit-eating grins at me? Fuck, I should have gotten the clue...:bitchslap:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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