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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
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Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Buddha (Lasting Bliss) <-----------O------------> Craving (Lasting Misery) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4067585 - 04/18/05 04:41 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Being present in the now is a goal, if not enlightenment or eternal bliss BTW. Can ask if you are not set up to struggle between being present and being distracted?

Being distracted is how we are, if you observe your mind you will discover that quite easily. Being present is not a goal, how can it be, if we are thinking that then we cannot be present, its impossible, we are just being distracted by goal orientated ideas. There is no struggle if you observe your mind without judgement and discovery how you are. We are already struggling, observing our minds allows us insight into this.

I have another question. You said it doesn't prescribe to one way. What other ways does it to teach to get to where it is suppose to take you beside the "middle way" ? I'm very curious to know of the other ways they teach besides that one.




All beings have the same potential. If a christian is being present and aware then thier is possibiliy for liberation, it doesnt matter what the religion is. Even if we have had a long day, and we are comming home and then we sit down and fully relax, in that space is our potential, in fact many people have these experiences no matter who they are or what they are doing. The natural state manifests when there are gaps in the clouds (the clouds are our thoughts), so when there is a gap, then their is a possibility. Its is who we really are, so this state will always manifest from time to time to some extent according to the individuals awareness in their daily life. Following the middle way it becomes easier to directly experience our natural state. But that does'nt mean that the middle way "owns" this state., it is a posiblity for everyone regardless of religion or no religion. Its quite simple.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


Edited by egghead1 (04/18/05 03:22 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Buddha (Lasting Bliss) <-----------O------------> Craving (Lasting Misery) [Re: egghead1]
    #4068860 - 04/18/05 04:19 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I understand what you are saying in those replies.

Can you touch more on the relationship between going from distraction to non distraction. I realize the descriptives of the two different states.

These two different states represent a duality. I even realize you are saying that the distraction state is the dualistic one and the non distraction state is not in a state of dualistic struggle.

If you or Buddha says that we have the potential to be in either and presents a choice, even if he says one is a illusive state "duality struggles" and one is a true state "no struggles" there are two choices being presented.

Even if you achieve observer awareness of and in these two states, there are TWO being presented to choose from.

He makes the distraction state of duality in illusion real by pointing it out as being an actually state of being you can be aware of and then he says it isn't real in the same breath.

Here is a living example. I went into a false ego state, one of distraction within dualistics and manufactured words that I typed here. I actually did and experienced that. You actually read them and replied to them. they are actually here on the board. All the while I made a few notes to suggest that I was aware of my play in the false ego state of distraction in dualistics I created.

Was it actually real even though a conscious creation of an illusive distracted state or not? if I am conscious of doing it, whats the difference and are they then not the same thing ultimately? You don't even have to answer. The words are all really here in this thread.

This is all I am raising awareness of and asking for people to consider and think about. :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Buddha (Lasting Bliss) <-----------O------------> Craving (Lasting Misery) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4068863 - 04/18/05 04:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
What I have come to understand here through you is that Buddhism is a very serious subject and practice to you. I understand you want respect shown towards that. I can give it to YOU from now on because I can be sensitive to the feelings of others when I know where their sensitive spots are. Can I ask you to consider that as a part of being grounded and not slipping off into fantasy land, others in this world may not take your reverence for it so seriously. Expecting that is living in a fantasy land.

I also understand that Buddhism to you is something you wish not to question, hold up and examine in different lights, look at from the inside out, "get light hearted with" or take a part and put it back together to see what its made of and what it can do, and or may not have had the interest or time yet to compare it to many other models out there with higher performance and upgraded features.

You have no clear understanding of my view if you believe that. I have no problem with people examining and looking at Buddhism under different lights, but when they make alot of false claims and statements that are totally untrue, that is no longer in the realm of reason, logic and examination, its in the realm of misunderstanding and misinformation.

I studied it along with many other religions in my late teens and early 20s moving my way out of Catholicism. I am turning 37 next month and have studied and put to the experiential test a shit load more since then. I did find some good stuff it that a took and blended it in with other good stuff I found along the way. I have found a lot of flaws with it too.

You must have been studying alot of misinformation, because everything you have said about Buddhism so far has been nonsense, which i have countered with facts in this thread. You even neglected to understand the four noble truths which are the very core and foundation of the Buddha's teachings. This to me suggests that either you have been studying incorrect, bogus material, or that you have fabricated the illusion that you have studied Buddhism at all. 

If it is my interest to point them out for other seekers here, why shouldn't I? For those who can't or don't wish to see them, fine, put your blinders on and keep you focus on only what you want to see in it. Everyone has their own timing and goals. I know not everyone who comes here is in a rush looking for a final resting place of being at this point in eternity. What I have to say may resonate with and be of interest to them to consider as it has been to me. If my considerations don't interest you then chuck them out the window and stick with what feels right and is working for you.

Its not wise to make any points based on misinformation. If you were educated and actually had realistic arguments to put forth then i would not have a problem with that at all. What you were putting out on this thread was a series of mucky misinformed deeply ignorant and untrue observations and arguments which were completely baseless and bared no relationship to the real teachings of Buddhism at all.

I may if another does. When I see walls of limitation or duality stuff being presented here, it's my tendency to bust the walls down, push them back or to blend oppositions into complimentary contrasts.

The only walls of duality that exist are the ones in your mind. First you must pull those ones down before you can enlighten others.

This isn't personal against you Egg. I have spoken up on the limitations and dualism of Buddhism many times before here as well as middle path, one answer, one right and only way, all others are wrong and bad, ideologies.

Buddhism is all about letting go and going beyond the limitations of duality,recognizing our own non-dual natural state. There are no limitations within Buddhism, and never has it stated that it is the only way. In fact in Buddhism it is said that there are no limitations as to how, when, and who can attain liberation from suffering. There are many paths and religions, and within in each one exists the possibility of not going to extremes and following a middle way. This is why HH the Dalia Lama teaches to all being without exception, regardless of race, religion, nationality, or any other condition , and this is why he is highly respected by all religious figures and people around the world, because he spreads the message of love, compassion, equanimity and peace limitlessly.

Where ever there is a right way and a wrong way you have a struggle. Nature only knows its way and multidimensional consciousness knows infinite ways beyond duality struggles.

Yes i agree, this is why Buddhism transcends all dualistic limitations of right or wrong. Its only a human limitation if someone is saying that their way is right and others are wrong. Have i ever stated that other paths are wrong and mine is right? There are infite ways to go beyond duality, of course, there is never any limitation

When I was into Buddhism, I hit walls I couldn't move beyond by its teachings. I chose not to live in permanent enclosures that confine me though I realize they make some feel safe and secure. I prefer dwelling in structures that have open doors and windows with no locks on them because there is always something more beyond them to be explored and discovered and revealed. After setting dynamite to the walls I found within Buddhism, I found a lot more beyond its limitations.

The walls that you hit may have been the creation of your won mind. The practice of Buddhism probably made you aware of your own limitations and then you may have inadvertently blamed Buddhism for the limitations you discovered within yourself. The only walls that exist are in your own mind, and it is not Buddhism that is at fault just because you chose to label it that way. Buddhism is not a very tactful religion, it is not meant to make you feel comfortable, in fact many people dislike it because it directly confronts the walls we have created through our defensive ego processes. It may feel like its Buddhism creating these walls, and many people at first fall into this delusion, but really the practice of Buddhism just shows you what is already there, allowing you to go through and beyond those walls and limitations you have erected to protect yourself from threats to your sense of self.

If you have a problem with me sharing that then just use the teachings of Buddhisms to remedy it and be at peace with it. If it teaches you to have to change and conform me to fit within it then that should tell you something about it.

I'm not trying to do anything to you except make you aware that you are harboring deep misunderstandings about Buddhism in general. I have no problem with you sharing you experience at all, but don't expect me to see untruths and misunderstanding without correcting, for it is my obligation to be true, open and correct about the teachings that i follow, and not let others be lead to misunderstanding about it through misinformation

You don't find anything odd about a teaching that does not allow for you to question it or have fun with it or seek outside of it let alone that presents itself as the only way? If you don't, that's fine with me, I am just looking better to understand you for future reference to watch out for your toes when I am dancing.

I have questioned Buddhism more than you know, and now i am passed questioning and doubt because i have tasted the blissful nectar first hand. The way i have presented Buddhism is not the only way, in fact there are countless other explanations, philosophies, and scriptures, and if their are disputes and discrepancies between philosophies and explanations within Buddhism, answers are  always found by going back to the source of the teaching, which is what and how the Buddha actually taught and explained the middle way. Its fine that you are still seeking answers, but the real discoveries are made when all questioning and answerings are done and finished. Now I'm not talking about blind acceptance or faith, but actual experience of the Truth first hand. I don't need to look outside anywhere, even in Buddhism for answers because i know that our real Buddha is within. We can ponder and wander all we like, but in the end the only way is to look within and discover how we really are.

I was about to sign off with that and looked up at your reply and saw where you wrote, " something about it being very important not to loose ourselves in distractions". This is a very important "idea" to YOU!  Is it okay with you if it's not important to me. That's more duality stuff.

Distractions are the basis for confusions and all kinds of problems, i think everyone can agree on that. If you are cutting some wood, and you are distracted by something, you might have an accident and cut your leg. This is the same for everything, if you are not being aware and are caught up in distraction, you can make all kinds of mistakes and have lots of accident's which cause you to suffer. This is the same when regarding our existence of body, speech and mind. for instance if i am being distracted i might say something unintentionally that offends you, and that is harmful for you. That is not good and  is the reason why not being distracted is important for everyone. If you don't see this as being important, then you must be very distracted :lol:

If something becomes a distraction and grabs your attention away from something else, it has something for you in my book of wisdom. IT is everywhere even in the distractions. When you have your blinders on and sites set on a goal, you can miss so much along the way. It's not about a final destination to me and getting there as quickly as possible. It's about the journey and taking my easy breezy sweet time because I have ETERNITY and no where to go because really, I never even left.

What is this "IT" you are speaking of? As i have said before there is no goal in Buddhism. In fact later I'm going to post a little story that illustrates what distraction is all about and how to enjoy everything blissfully without being distracted.

So what? You gotta get to the Golden City by 10:00 P.M or else the doors close for good? Do you have time to pull over by a lake along the road and throw some pebbles in it watch the ripples or feed the ducks? Do you have time to roll around and make love in a meadow of flowers? I do and the golden city forever dwells within me. :wink: :heart:

Yes, all can be enjoyed totally with knowledge of impermanence. Like a beautiful sunset which you don't feel saddened by when its gone, because you know of its impermanence, you enjoy fully in the moment and let go totally in that space when its gone. The only bus that we all have to catch is the bus that is death. Whether you are going to some golden city or not is yet to be seen.  :grin:  :heart:






P.S i was in the process of writing this post before you posted your last one, so feel free to overlook some points i made that you have already answered to. And also, remember not to take my seriousness to seriously. I have your best interests at heart and do not wish you any ill will.  :heart:


Edited by egghead1 (04/18/05 05:18 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Buddha (Lasting Bliss) <-----------O------------> Craving (Lasting Misery) [Re: egghead1]
    #4069577 - 04/18/05 07:43 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for taking the time to bounce off my devils advocate dupe. I can't fault you for treating me like one when I played one. It's pretty funny. Just wondering why you missed all the parts where I said I was playing for as long as you did.

You must just be really passionate about the teachings of Buddha.
Passion can be a distractive state we loose broader awareness within. Not that it's a bad thing as the contraction of the lense gives focus to a cause and that has a purpose in the big scheme of things giving birth to new realties to play in. It also the limits the view of whats going on beyond it.

The broader you open the lens the more problems begin to disappear and can show that the cause one is focussed attention on hasn't even developed into a problem in the first place. (backwards time is neat viewing) The broadest of views are seen as problem free as evrything becomes revealed and explained in them.

It's like watching just a small clip of a movie where you just get to see some guy steal a diamond ring from a bedroom and think "oooooooh that nasty thief" and then you have to leave with all these differtent scenerios of the thief going off in your head as if thats a part of the movie playing from the bit you saw. Then years later you get to see the whole movie and learn that it is the guys home, taking his wife ring, to have a larger diamond put in it for their anniversary.  :lol:

Thanks for playing with me.:heart: I know you don't wish me il will. I know you enough to know that it would be doing it to yourself or a projection of what you do do to your own self. Even if someone did, I would have to have a il will receptor for it open to recieve it and be effected by it. I think I am gettin inspired to post on how that stuff works related to manifesting realities.  :cool:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Buddha (Lasting Bliss) <-----------O------------> Craving (Lasting Misery) [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4071538 - 04/19/05 05:22 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Thanks for taking the time to bounce off my devils advocate dupe. I can't fault you for treating me like one when I played one. It's pretty funny. Just wondering why you missed all the parts where I said I was playing for as long as you did.

I did'nt miss any of the part where you said you were playing. Did you miss the parts where i said not to take my serioussness seriously.  :wink:  :lol:

You must just be really passionate about the teachings of Buddha.
Passion can be a distractive state we loose broader awareness within. Not that it's a bad thing as the contraction of the lense gives focus to a cause and that has a purpose in the big scheme of things giving birth to new realties to play in. It also the limits the view of whats going on beyond it.

Well when you experience the validity of the Buddha'a teachings first hand, then passion naturally blossoms and transforms into compassion. That was really the only state that i was manifesting from, thats how i was acutely aware of your fabrications and lack of understanding of the teachings. I could'nt just sit around and let those misconceptions fester, that would have been lacking in compassion on my part to let that happen regardless of whether you were joking or not  :heart:

The broader you open the lens the more problems begin to disappear and can show that the cause one is focussed attention on hasn't even developed into a problem in the first place. (backwards time is neat viewing) The broadest of views are seen as problem free as evrything becomes revealed and explained in them.

I agree. Panormaic awareness it the result of relaxing your focus and opening your vision in a wider sense. Focussed attention can become a problem if you get too absorbed in that state, i am aware of this, but thank you for the reminder. The broadest view is always the most cear and profound

It's like watching just a small clip of a movie where you just get to see some guy steal a diamond ring from a bedroom and think "oooooooh that nasty thief" and then you have to leave with all these differtent scenerios of the thief going off in your head as if thats a part of the movie playing from the bit you saw. Then years later you get to see the whole movie and learn that it is the guys home, taking his wife ring, to have a larger diamond put in it for their anniversary.  :lol:

:lol: thats funny :grin:

Thanks for playing with me.:heart: I know you don't wish me il will. I know you enough to know that it would be doing it to yourself or a projection of what you do do to your own self. Even if someone did, I would have to have a il will receptor for it open to recieve it and be effected by it. I think I am gettin inspired to post on how that stuff works related to manifesting realities.  :cool:

Cool, i look forward to your post on that  :heart:  :tongue:






--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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