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OfflineScarfmeister
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If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug...
    #1634548 - 06/15/03 05:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Then your pretty fucking far from being enlightened. If hear anyone else say that after their last trip they sensed that they where on the verge of breaking through I'm gonna puke.

Listen, you where high, stoned, fucked up and the only thing you where on the verge of reaching was your toilet.


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1634551 - 06/15/03 05:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

BLASPHEMER!
How dare you speak such words about the sacrament?!!

*looks for spellbook....*


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1634557 - 06/15/03 05:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It happens. It hasn't happened to you.

Get over it.


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OfflineFLsHrooMboY
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1634566 - 06/15/03 05:54 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

First of all, it depends on what you consider a drug.
I think mushrooms, herb, and cacti grow on earth for a reason.
You can find enlightenment in anything that you feel has made a positive
change in your life.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1634595 - 06/15/03 06:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What counts as finding it in a drug? I have "broken through" twice, and on both occasions psilocybin was an obvious catalyst. But I have also tripped dozens of times on shrooms and a hundred times on LSD without having this experience. So it's not something I expect to find just by taking the drug.


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Anonymous

Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1634602 - 06/15/03 07:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

you cant see what your not looking for...


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OfflineGrav
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: ]
    #1634636 - 06/15/03 08:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Well I don't know much about this "enlightenment" deal, but I definately have 'broken through' some sharp rusty mental shackles thanks to the hallucinogen.

And I believe people do it all the time. That is to say the drug provides them a positive change, stirs the waters a little, gets things flowing again. I DO NOT think that is just a figment of imagination from a state of intoxication. It is a real change you witness in all aspects of your life.

I guess I've just been "fucked up" for years now, because I've been more happier and had a much stronger awareness and respect for who I am ever since I dropped acid.

I guess I'm just perma-trippin' ....


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Offlinenubious
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Grav]
    #1634769 - 06/15/03 11:14 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you Shroomnoob. How many times have I seen people on here talking about how "They've transcended their ego" thanks to magic mushrooms and how they've "Achieved Inner Peace" thanks to LSD or Extacy or whatever the fuck they're dropping.. It makes me want to hang myself to think that some of the spiritual people I conside with are addicted to these substances thinking that these are what make them achieve these mindstates.

I haven't done Psychedelics in over 6 months, and live a fairly healthy life tinted slightly by regular pot usage - when I do mushrooms, yeah - it's trippy - I see colors - I feel things I don't normally feel - and I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that I believe Mushrooms are a gateway to another form of conciousnious - whatever it may be, but I don't actively seek these drugs to achieve these states because I've found you don't need drugs to achieve these states.

The brain is a complicated piece of macheinery - some run on Diesel, some run on Premium, but they all take you where you want to go. With healthy maintanance, you'll get the milage you're supposed to. Don't burn yourself out. It's only cool those who haven't experienced.


*note* I apologize for any spelling errors - I just got off a ten hour shift.



--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: nubious]
    #1634838 - 06/15/03 12:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Someone should define enlightenment, cause these discussions are pretty silly. One guy says somewhere that he achieved what he calls an "enlightened" state on mushrooms, other people who don't use that word or don't use mushrooms deny that he did. They declare that anyone who uses drugs for "enlightenment" (by their definition) is misled, and then they go on claiming that they achieve mushroom states without the use of drugs and say so in a way that puts psychonauts beneath them. Basically everybody's confused and because the thread is started as a kind of attack on mushroom users then everybody gets irritated and tries to jump into the debate, but nobody knows what anybody else is really saying blah blah blah blah keep it up boys


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1634846 - 06/15/03 12:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

sez you pussykat.

I like these kinds of debates.
people don't debate people.
people debate their own preconceived notions.

that's why this place is so.. um.. enlightened!


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1634859 - 06/15/03 12:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I wish those who have reached these enlightened states without using drugs could explain how they did it. This information would be useful, because it's not always practical to have a mushroom trip every time you want to be enlightened. I know, there are published techniques, but it would still be interesting to know which ones were used, in order to compare their relative merits.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Dogomush]
    #1634867 - 06/15/03 12:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

in this case, the word "enlightenment" might as well have been picked out of a hat full of other words that portray feelings of calm and contentment, that all is right with the world.
i think what people mean when they say that is that they really feel like they've made some sort of positive change in their mind set as a result of the trip.
in other words..
THEY'RE HAPPY (for the time being)

some people hate it when that happens to someone else.

being honestly happy is a marvelous occurence if you're alive and invest a modicum of attention and emotion into what's going on in the world these days. so rare is the experience of sheer bliss, whether as the result of a simple chain of thoughts, or merely looking at something, that we sometimes don't recognize it as such and instead say we've "transcended the ego" or "been enlightened".

$0.02


Edited by Clean (06/15/03 12:44 PM)


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Clean]
    #1634890 - 06/15/03 12:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I wasn't happy at all the first time it happened to me, I actually felt kind of gloomy, or neutral at best. The happy feelings came along later.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: ]
    #1634946 - 06/15/03 01:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

you cant see what your not looking for...

I wasn't looking to get robbed at gunpoint last year, but I certainly witnessed it anyway. You r-e-a-l-l-y don't want me to propose yet another Swami Challenge, do you?

I just luv meaningless New Age sound bites.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1634954 - 06/15/03 01:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The happy feelings came along later.

Many people are "happy" when a bad trip ends.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Swami]
    #1635026 - 06/15/03 02:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug.

It's you.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Swami]
    #1635036 - 06/15/03 02:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Many people are "happy" when a bad trip ends.




But this wasn't a bad trip, it was just my general mood or maybe the unfamiliarity of the experience that affected my feelings, or the feelings of my human host as I perceived them at the time. The happy feelings came when I remembered that there was love in my life, and I realized that love is the feature that makes transcendent consciousness possible.


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OfflineHillBilly777
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: nubious]
    #1635043 - 06/15/03 02:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

nubious, I agree with you to a point. The brain IS a complicated piece of machinery, and some do run on diesel, premium, or whatever, and they all CAN take you where you want to go. However, I think the most important part of what you said was: "With healthy maintenance." What exactly is that?

Some people can achieve an inner calm with meditation. Others need a bit of a catalyst to nudge them in the right direction. For some psychedelics can be an important part of healthy maintenance. Others use martial arts, or prayer, or fishing for christ's sake. What's important is that they get that same mileage, not how they got there.

I'm a bit surprised that you think that stating: "Mushrooms are a gateway to another form of consciousness" is going out on a limb. Perhaps you were going in a different direction with "form of consciousness" than the way I interpreted it, but I'd think it's fairly obvious that one's conscious self is operating quite differently from the norm when using mushrooms. It is through this change of consciousness that one can better understand their "normal" consciousness, just as in high school algebra one needs a few equations to solve for multiple variables. Now, of course, this is not to say that psychedelics are the only means of achieving this. Lord, no. Just another path to a common goal.

As far as how this relates to spirituality, it is rather evident that a common attribute of enlightened ones in all religions/spiritual practices is wisdom, the foundation of which is understanding one's self. By understanding one's own consciousness, they can understand others', and guide them on their own paths towards the same end. Is this understanding not the essence of enlightenment?


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1635112 - 06/15/03 03:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... Then your pretty fucking far from being enlightened."

I think "in a drug..." could be removed from your claim and it would still apply.

If you think you will find enlightenment then you're pretty fucking far from being enlightened.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1635130 - 06/15/03 03:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yep...

Remember this?:
________________________________
Enlightenment...
is not a commodity.
is not a place.
is not even a noun.

It is therefore not attainable and you can never get "there".
If you think it is something that you can put on your cosmic resume, you have it all wrong.
If you think there is only one path, you have it all wrong.
If you give a shit about whether or not one is enlightened, you have it all wrong.

________________________________
from this recent thread


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1635136 - 06/15/03 03:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

But what if a person finds enlightenment, then loses it, and then finds it again? If he foresees this possibility during the first period of enlightenment then your statement is clearly wrong.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1635413 - 06/15/03 06:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ah.... that begs the question:

Once enlightened (whatever the fuck that means), can one "lose it"?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinesoylent_green
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1635470 - 06/15/03 06:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i see it as more of an experence...just like everything in life.


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1635477 - 06/15/03 06:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think there is a distinction to be made between temorary "states" of consciousness and (more or less) permanent "stages". Abraham Maslow spoke of "peak experiences" which are like a glimpse at the potentials that lie in store for those that are willing to do the work to raise their consciousness so that this experience becomes stabilized as the level of consciousness that one regularly experiences life from.

I think mushrooms can never offer anything more than the former -- a glimpse at the potentials of the mind, whereas meditative work is supposedly the path to achieving these states permanently, whereupon they cannot be lost, anymore than a child who develops the ability to perform formal operational mental tasks can lose that ability (until old age brain degeneration takes place, I guess)...


Edited by sunyata (06/15/03 06:32 PM)


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: sunyata]
    #1636713 - 06/16/03 06:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, the enlightened state that I experienced was an all-or-nothing thing. I was there one moment, and in the next moment I wasn't (but I was of course still impacted by the immediate memory of it). On the other hand, enlightenment as a stage in a person's spiritual growth does not seem to be an all-or-nothing thing unless you only count perfection, which I think is kind of silly.

Buddhists enumerate various stages of enlightenment, and stages within stages depending on how skillful you are at overcoming the obstacles. Those obstacles don't go away completely until you're dead. I presume that even a buddha feels hunger and thirst etc as long as he is alive in a human body and takes care of its needs.


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OfflinePed
Interested In Your Brain
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1637003 - 06/16/03 10:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

>> "Listen, you where high, stoned, fucked up and the only thing you where on the verge of reaching was your toilet.

As a self-proclaimed "thrill-seeker", it's no mystery that the concept of understanding through opening is so foreign to you. 

By no means would I suggest that psychedelics as a spiritual path are a means to any end outside of the rainforest,  nor would I suggest that we can achieve a lasting state of awareness after the drug has left our systems.  Psychedelic drugs when applied to the objective of awakening could be thought of as a shrill, persistent alarm clock.  Even once awake, we are in lassitude.  Invariably, we find the snooze button and drift back to our previous slumber.

And so psychedelic drugs are no solution to our spiritual langour.  It is, I think, unquestionable that the right dose in the right setting can jostle our eyes open to the astonishing, unrelenting flow of things.  A stream, red and rich with the purest, most unconditional love imaginable.  Suddenly it feels as though we're ripples in a pond, formless and only with awareness.  Part of That from which nothing can be removed, as our absence would mean It's incompleteness.  Items as events rather than objects; all things in the universe impermanent and in a constant state of flux. No past, present, or future, only the continually evolving "now".. [Drifts off, ponders with blank stare]

That's how I would describe my last trip. :smile:  I had a great time.  I've since forgotten the meaning behind all those things.  Once again, those words are just words.  Regardless, prior to that night I was feeling very discouraged.  I'd lost sight of everything.  Now, there is much more motivation to pursue what I have been pursuing with my spiritual study since that experience.

Is it so unreasonable to use psychedelic drugs in this manner?     


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Ped]
    #1637783 - 06/16/03 05:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Enlightenment has to do with freeing your mind of delusion. It's not something you "find" and then "lose" again. I'm definitely not enlightened but I can say that meditation has helped me gain better control over my perceptions as well as realize emptiness.

Drugs are an induced experience. Psychedelics affect your brain. They don't make you suddenly enlightened. They can be a great aid in learning how to enter into an egoless samadhi state of mind, but it doesn't mean that while you're peaking in level 5 that you're enlightened.

Psychedelics are great tools; a way of understanding our perceptions and our false sense of self. You can indeed develop great insights while tripping because a lot of psychedelics force you into a single-point state of mind. But they are just chemicals. Enlightenment, according to all tantric and meditative traditions, is a state of being we all can achieve. If you've ever met a guru or lama who is highly realized you feel their love and bliss from just how they compose themselves.

All the negativity and snappy comments in this thread by either side of the argument tends to bring to light that you're missing the point. The only person that can bring you to enlightenment is yourself. Even the Buddha said in many of the sutras that he cannot enlighten anyone. He can only show you the way; the rest is up to you to make the effort to calm and transform your own mind.

Love & Light,

Boppity


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1637825 - 06/16/03 05:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Does enlightenment have to be a permanent state? Do you sit in traffic for four hours in enlightenment?

Or is it temporary?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinelateralus
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1638535 - 06/16/03 11:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The Psilocybin Experience stands alone. It cannot be invalidated or explained away because its a 'drug'.

I personally dont see why anyone would want to be in a psychadelic hallucinating state permanently by some meditative technique taught by some 'guru'.

If thats not the goal then why do people always confuse the two? These 'guru chasers' always seem to think the states are similar. If they are similar, why waste your time? Why swim across an ocean when you can take a boat?


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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: lateralus]
    #1638643 - 06/17/03 12:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Because they're totally different states of mind. Pure meditative states of samadhi are nothing like tripping. There's nothing hallucinogenic about meditation; it's quite the opposite experience.

Love & Light,

Boppity


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1638664 - 06/17/03 12:30 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I've learned from every drug experience I've had. There is enlightenment in everything you live, whether it be mammoth or totally overlooked until later. Yes, I found the toilet, and I learned that I like puking. Everything is not always about suddenly discovering the secrets of existence and our purpose as conscious beings. It's also just a whole bunch of little steps that eventually lead us somewhere.

OH WOW! GRAV THAT IS THE COOLEST AVATAR I EVER SEEN SON!!!!!!!! I love earthbound and purple landscape goodness!


--------------------
Namaste


Edited by RedNukleus (06/17/03 12:32 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Boppity604]
    #1638890 - 06/17/03 04:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I've never found anything hallucinogenic about mushrooms either. As Huxley said "hallucinogen" is a very poor term for these drugs. A hallucination is something you cannot distuingish from reality - I've never experienced aything like that on mushrooms.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1638919 - 06/17/03 05:09 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"It's not the drug. It's not the drug. It's not the drug."

Of course its not just you! Duh!


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1638920 - 06/17/03 05:12 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Then your pretty fucking far from being enlightened. If hear anyone else say that after their last trip they sensed that they where on the verge of breaking through I'm gonna puke.





How anyone with this much anger can judge how far somebody is or isnt from enlightenment is beyond me!

Personally Im not sure if Id know enlightenment if it came up and bit me on the pineal gland. Enlightenment is just sooo third millenium dahlings.

PEACE


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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1639762 - 06/17/03 03:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Alex123: Does enlightenment have to be a permanent state? Do you sit in traffic for four hours in enlightenment?
Or is it temporary?


Good question. The common definition indicates one way or the other.
Maybe it should.

I've never found anything hallucinogenic about mushrooms either. As Huxley said "hallucinogen" is a very poor term for these drugs. A hallucination is something you cannot distuingish from reality - I've never experienced anything like that on mushrooms.

Ditto.
It's no surprise to me that Huxley also thought "hallucinogen" is a misnomer (entheogen or psychedelic is better, IMO). Is that quote from Huxley's writings?


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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1639896 - 06/17/03 04:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's mentioned in "Moksha" - Huxley's writings on psychedelics.


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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Boppity604]
    #1639927 - 06/17/03 04:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I meant not to imply that I had been enlightened by mushrooms, nor that I was any better an example of realization than the next person. :smile: 


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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Ped]
    #1642473 - 06/18/03 04:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I love phsycadelics just as much as anyone here. I feel the elightenment thing too. I do think there is something about them....just "something".....they are different than anything else....there has to be a reason for them.

Im just now beggining to read some stuff about metaphysics and getting into astral projetion deeper and it has become a nessesity to me now.

Ive also been reading a lot of stuff my Meher Baba and that in itself has beeng a truly enlightening experience. I have takin everything he says in the book seroisly and it all fits in and makes sense. All but one teaching......phsycadelics. Im confused now. Stuck between my own mind and that of a "God-Man". But alas....i still do these drugs...why? i dont know....i cant put my finger on it but there is something about them that is strange. I dont feel as if its hindering me in any way because i dont let it. I leave an open mind to what it can do and leave an open one for it being only a drug and therefore was merely false. I do it for the experience....an experience that nothing esle can give me weather it be false or true....its the only way to get that experience...therefore that is the reason i do them.

here is the teaching i was talking about.

Quote:

Excerpts from
GOD IN A PILL?
Meher Baba

In an age when individual liberty is prized above all achievements, the fast-increasing number of drug addicts forms an appalling chain of self-sought bondage! Even as these drugs hold out an invitation to a fleeting sense of ecstasy, freedom or escape, they enslave the individual in greater binding. LSD, a highly potent "mind-changing" drug differing from the opium derivatives and being used in the research of mental science, is said to "expand consciousness and alter one's personality for the better". In America it has become tragically popular among the young, used indiscriminately by any and many. They must be persuaded to desist from taking drugs, for they are harmful ? physically, mentally and spiritually.

All so-called spiritual experiences generated by taking "mind-changing" drugs such as LSD, mescaline and psilocybin are superficial and add enormously to one's addiction to the deceptions of illusion which is but the shadow of Reality.

No drug, whatever its great promise, can help one to attain the spiritual goal. There is no short-cut to the goal except through the grace of the Perfect Master*, and drugs, LSD more than others, give only a semblance of "spiritual experience," a glimpse of a false Reality. [*The Perfect Master is the God-realized being who has completed the cycle of evolution and involution through which consciousness is developed, matured and perfected, and who subsequently elects to return to active participation in creation in order to help other souls perfect consciousness.]

The experience of a semblance of freedom that these drugs may temporarily give to one is in actuality a millstone around the aspirant's neck in his efforts towards emancipation from the rounds of birth and death.

The experience is as far removed from Reality as is a mirage from water. No matter how much one pursues the mirage one will never reach water and the search for God through drugs must end in disillusionment. One who knows the Way, who is the Way, cannot approve the continued pursuance of a method that not only must prove fruitless but leads away from the Path that leads to Reality.

Experiences gained through LSD are, in some cases, experiences of the shadows of the subtle (emotion, energy) plane in the gross (physical) world. These experiences have nothing at all to do with spiritual advancement.

The user of LSD can never reach subtle consciousness in this incarnation despite its repeated use. To experience real spiritual consciousness, surrenderance to a Perfect Master is necessary.

It is human, and therefore necessarily wrongsighted, to view the result of the drug by its immediate relative effects ? to calculate its end result is beyond human knowledge, and only the true Guide can point the way.

The experiences derived through the drugs are experiences by one in the gross world of the shadows of the subtle planes and are not continuous. The experiences of the subtle sphere by one on the subtle planes are continuous, but even these experiences are of illusion, for Reality is beyond them. And so, though LSD may lead one to feel a better man personally, the feeling of having had a glimpse of Reality may not only lull one into a false security but also will in the end derange one's mind. Although LSD is not an addiction-forming drug one can become attached to the experiences arising from its use and one gets tempted to use it in increasing doses, again and again, in the hope of deeper and deeper experiences. But eventually this causes madness or death.

An example of experiences that are shadows of the subtle plane encountered in the gross world is that of a yogi who taught his 150 students to go into trance. When the students came out of the trance they were asked by the yogi to describe their experiences. Their accounts would be amazing to a man in the street, for in their state of trance they saw lights and colours galore ? dazzling lights in colours and in circles and in different designs. They felt all things around them pulsating with light and felt themselves separate from their own bodies and became witness to all things.

Even such experiences as these are but the shadows of the subtle plane experienced in the gross world, for they are not continuous. However, these are NOT spiritually harmful, but neither are they spiritually beneficial. But experiences induced through the use of drugs are harmful physically.

Even actual experiences of the subtle planes in the subtle sphere (which are always continuous) are likened to the pleasure of children playing with toys. However, these experiences are spiritually beneficial since they create a longing in the aspirant for further advancement. But union with God is impossible without the grace of the Perfect Master.

Consciousness is fully evolved and complete as soon as the soul identifies itself with the human form. This consciousness neither increases nor decreases; only the experiences of consciousness increase. Hence the states of sub-sub-super consciousness, sub-super consciousness, super consciousness and God consciousness. This in other words is gross consciousness, subtle consciousness, mental consciousness and God consciousness. The lighter the burden of impressions (sanskaras) the higher the experience of consciousness.

There is also a state of perverted consciousness. It is a state in which consciousness indulges in induced experiences such as those gotten from the use of drugs; and even the most fantastic experiences thus induced are only the shadows of the subtle plane experienced in the gross world.

Only the One who knows and experiences Reality, who is Reality, has the ability and authority to point out the false from the Real. The only Real experience is to continuously see God within oneself as the infinite effulgent ocean of Truth and then to become one with this infinite ocean and continuously experience infinite knowledge, power and bliss.

To a few sincere seekers, LSD may have served as a means to arouse that spiritual longing which has brought them into my contact, but once that purpose is served further ingestion would not only be harmful but have no point or purpose. The longing for Reality cannot be sustained by further use of drugs but only by the love for the Perfect Master which is a reflection of his love for the seeker.

An individual may feel LSD has made a "better" man of him socially and personally. But one will be a better man through Love than one can ever be through drugs or any other artificial aid. And the best man is he who has surrendered himself to the Perfect Master irrespective of his personal or social standing.

As for possible use of the drug by an enlightened society for spiritual purposes ? an enlightened society would never dream of using it!

All the experiences even of spiritual aspirants on the Path to God-realization (gotten in the natural course of involution of consciousness) are of the domain of Illusion and are ephemeral and absolutely unimportant; how much more illusory and distracting are the experiences through substances compounded in a laboratory which have the semblance of those of the aspirant on the Spiritual Path! The one and only true experience is the experience of the Truth, the Reality; for once the realization of God is attained it remains a continual and never-ending experience.

The all-pervading effulgence of God the Reality can only be experienced by an aspirant who keeps himself scrupulously above all illusory experimentations and humbly takes refuge in love of God.

God can only be realized by loving Him with all the love at one's command ? pure, simple and unadulterated love. When one's love for God, and God alone, is at its zenith true longing for union with God is greatest, and the aspirant's ego assertion is then at its lowest point.

The aspirant at this stage is in the sixth plane of consciousness (vide God Speaks) and "sees" God face to face in all His glory. The aspirant experiences this without fear of fluctuation in his continual and never-ending experiencing of "seeing" the glory of God. Even this most sublime experience of "seeing" God face to face falls short of the only true experience ? union with God the Reality.

It is absolutely essential for a spiritual aspirant who genuinely longs for union with God ? the Reality ? to shun experiments with the effects of certain drugs. These things do not uplift the aspirant nor draw him out of the rut of Illusion. Experiences born of these practices wear off as soon as the aspirant withdraws from or is thrown out of the orbit of the effect produced by the technique employed.

But there is no drug that can promote the aspirant's progress ? nor ever alleviate the sufferings of separation from his beloved God. LOVE is the only propeller and the only remedy. The aspirant should love God with all his heart till he forgets himself and recognizes his beloved God in himself and others.

Even the experiences of the planes of consciousness are only another kind of an illusion! Experiences of the planes are "Real Illusion", whereas those derived from the use of drugs are illusion into "False Illusion". This mudane life and the experiences thereof are a "dream into a dream"; whereas the traversing of the spiritual Path by the seekers who gain experiences of planes of consciousness is a "dream".

Medically there are legitimate uses of LSD. It can be used beneficially for chronic alcoholism, for severe and serious cases of depression and for relief in mental illnesses. Use of LSD other than for specific medical purposes is harmful physically, mentally and spiritually.

Any drug when used medically for diseases, under the direct supervision of a medical practitioner, is not impermissible and cannot be classed with individual usage of a drug for what one can get out of it ? or hopes to get out of it ? whether thrills, forgetfulness, or a delusion of spiritual experience.

LSD and other psychedelic drugs should never be used except when prescribed by a professional medical practitioner in the case of serious mental disorder under his direct supervision.

In short, LSD can be used beneficially for specific medical purposes, but for spiritual progress it is not only useless but positively harmful.

If the student world continues to indulge in the use of LSD, the best of its intellectual potential will be lost to the nation.

Use of LSD produces hallucinations, and prolonged use of this drug will lead to mental derangement, which even the medical use of LSD would fail to cure.


GOD IN A PILL?






--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineVulture
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Vulture]
    #1642475 - 06/18/03 04:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Vulture]
    #1643870 - 06/19/03 08:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Perhaps Meher Baba didn't know anything about LSD, but felt threatened by it because his services as Savior of the Universe might not be needed if "God in a pill" was actually available?


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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1643939 - 06/19/03 08:55 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, that was my thought too Rhizoid.  I don't know who Meher Baba is, but he seems a little too strongly opinionated on the subject. Regardless, he makes some good points.

The Dalai Lama has some things to say about this as well.  He doesn't speak of drugs directly, but his words canopy the subject very nicely.  This is excerpted from his book "Transforming the Mind."  (chp.2, "Transforming through Altruism", p.52)


Quote:

"The transformation of mind and heart does not happen overnight but through a gradual process.  Although it is true that in some cases instantaneous spiritual experiences may be possible, they are rather unreliable and somewhat shortlived.  The problem is that when sudden experiences occur like bolts of lightning, the individual may feel profoundly moved and inspired, but if the experiences are not grounded in discipline and sustained effort they are very unpredictable, and their transformative impact will be rather limited.  By contrast, a genuine transformation that results from sustained concerted effort is long-lasting because it has a firm foundation.  This is why long-term spiritual transformation can really only come about through a gradual process of training and discipline."





Vulture, you may be interested in a book titled  The Tao of Physics, by Fritjof Capra.   


   


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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Ped]
    #1644319 - 06/19/03 12:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Here's an interesting twist to stir up this thread.
I recently read that historians say Buddha died due to
poisioning by either meat or a mushroom...
I thought Buddha was a vegetarian, but no matter, my point
is that perhaps Buddha "attained elightenment" while
munching on some Portabellas under the Bodi tree...
perhaps he was a regular shroom consumer and died
after eating a poisionous shroom that truely lead
to a state of no-self... :grin:
my deepest appologies to any Buddhists on the forum, I
don't mean any disrespect by these comments, I think
Buddha was the most evolved human that ever blessed
the planet, but I just wanted to point out that it might
have had something to do with shrooms, and add some levity. 


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Offlinec_mathimatics
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: lucid]
    #1644492 - 06/19/03 01:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"
Self-enlightenment can only be acheived my way. Not your way, or their way, my way. And my way is slow. Because it was slow for me, it will be slow for you.
"

This is nonsense! There are as many ways to enlightenment as there are people that have _EVER_ existed, and more! Someone can find true enlightenment by falling out of a plane, some while meditating in a cave 10 thousand+ feet up a mountain. Some find it wilst eating mushrooms, or peyote, or even marijuana!

Besides, telling one that they can or cannot do something, try something, use something, or be something (etc etc) is taking away precious free-will, one of the foundations of individuality and self-expansion/knowledge/understanding.

---
Everything that I say is both true and false simultaneously. I accept that.


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OfflinePed
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Buddha [Re: lucid]
    #1644661 - 06/19/03 01:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Shakayamuni Buddha roamed India spreading teachings for almost 50 years after his awakening.  He died at age 81.

Buddhist in certain stages of practice prefer a vegetarian diet, but they will eat whatever is put infront of them.

:smile: 


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Re: Buddha [Re: Ped]
    #1644683 - 06/19/03 02:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

>Shakayamuni Buddha roamed India spreading teachings for almost 50
>years after his awakening. He died at age 81.
yup, exactly, but historians claim he died (age 81 as u say)
by eating a poisionous shroom - and I'm making a hypothetical
leap by suggesting that perhaps this idicates that
he regularaly consumed shrooms and his "enlightenment"
was due to shroom ingestion.
just a conjecture...



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OfflineWaveRider
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1644689 - 06/19/03 02:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomnoob said:
Then your pretty fucking far from being enlightened. If hear anyone else say that after their last trip they sensed that they where on the verge of breaking through I'm gonna puke.

Listen, you where high, stoned, fucked up and the only thing you where on the verge of reaching was your toilet.





No offense is meant by this but who do you think you are to tell others that what they feel is real is not? You are just a man, just like everyone else, what makes you think that you know more then others? I can not say that the path to true enlightment can be brought through psychedelic experiences alone, but I will not say that it is not posiible. I know that I know very little about this life and I am in the process of learning my own path. I can not say that my way is RIGHT, all I can say is that it is right for me. You might want to try to be more tolerant of other's beliefs as one can learn from others as well. There is no 'reality' of things because it is all on a personal understanding of others and the world around them.


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer, the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear, permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it is gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path."


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Re: Buddha [Re: lucid]
    #1644690 - 06/19/03 02:09 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Oh I see what you mean. I though you meant he ate some mushrooms under the Bodhi tree, and died there after eating a look-alike or something.

No worries.


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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1644719 - 06/19/03 02:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think I will find enlightenment in a bowl of Breyer's Dutch Chocolate ice cream or maybe in the cheerleader down the street...


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Re: Buddha [Re: Ped]
    #1644735 - 06/19/03 02:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I've often also heard of Sufi stories where
candy/food/liquid etc was ingested prior to
a mystical tranformation. The item is usually
only refered to in passing in the stories,
without any consideration that the item might
have had psychadellic properties or might have
instigated the "awakening". I'm not suggesting
that these were indeed psychadelics, but I'm
open to the possibility and curious...


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Re: Buddha [Re: lucid]
    #1644747 - 06/19/03 02:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

>I think I will find enlightenment in a bowl of Breyer's Dutch
>Chocolate ice cream or maybe in the cheerleader down the street...
Sigh, as much as it pains (agonizingly so) me Swami, I have to agree.
After years of meditation and a serious bout with depression and
anxiety I wonder more and more if Freud was right...the best we
can hope for is "common unhappiness", fleeting glimpses of pleasure
in our basic instincts. And I think a true state of no-mind would
be brain death, vegetable mode...
argg... I am Jack's Cynical Frustration...


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Re: Buddha [Re: lucid]
    #1644755 - 06/19/03 02:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Clarification please. It pains you because you agree with me or because you found meditation to be empty?  :smirk: 


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Invisiblesunyata
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Re: Buddha [Re: Ped]
    #1644776 - 06/19/03 02:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Osho on enlightenment and drug use:

Quote:

. . . And then, suddenly, everything is new, because mind was making everything old through its interpretation. Suddenly you are a child again. Your eyes are fresh and young, you look at things without knowledge, without learning. Suddenly the trees have a freshness, the greenery has changed -- it is not dull, it is alive. Suddenly the sound of a bird is absolutely different.

This is what is happening to many people through drugs. Aldous Huxley became intensely fascinated by drugs because of this. All over the world the new generation is so attracted by drugs. The reason is this: because the drug for a moment, or for a few moments, chemically puts the mind aside. You look at the world, now the colours all around are simply miraculous. You had never seen such a thing! An ordinary flower becomes the whole existence, carries the whole glory of the Divine. An ordinary leaf becomes so deep, as if the whole Truth is revealed through it. Everything and anything immediately changes. The drug cannot change the world; the drug is only chemically putting your mind aside.

But you can become addicted to it -- then the mind has absorbed the drug too. Only once, in the beginning, for the first time, or twice, or three times, you can deceive the mind chemically. By and by, the mind becomes attuned to the drug. Then it demands, and now the demand is coming from the mind. Now, by and by, even chemically, you will not be able to push the mind aside. It will be there. You will be addicted. Trees will become old again, colours will not be so radiant, things will again become dull. The drug has killed you; it couldn't kill the mind.

The drug can only give you a shock-treatment. It is a shock to the whole body chemistry. In that shock, the old adjustement is broken. Gaps are there; through the gaps you can look, but this cannot be made a practice. You cannot practice a drug. Sooner or later, it becomes part of the mind; the mind takes over. Only meditation can kill the mind -- nothing else. Meditation is mind suicide, mind committing suicide.

Without any chemicals, without any physical means, if you can put the mind aside, then you become the master. And when you are the master, everything is new. It has always been so. From the very beginning to the very end, everything is new, young, fresh. Death has never occured in this world. It is life eternal.




I don't know how much of this I agree with personally, and it sounds to me like the guy does not have a lot of personal experience with psychedelics, but it reminds me a lot of what Alan Watts said about LSD: "once you have gotten the message, hang up the phone."

Does anyone with long term psychedelic experience have anything to say about this? Have you found that the experience has changed after your first handful of trips? I have met several people who say they have not experienced the clarity of mind, the joyous wonderment at the beautiful craziness of all existence, that I experienced when I have eaten mushrooms. It's been a couple of years since my last psilocybin experience, but I remember feeling as though I had tapped into some kind of cosmic fountain of wisdom and genius, like I had the answers for all the questions that mattered. People would ask me stuff, and I would explain. I was sharing dharma that I didn't even realize I had access to. Others have tried to tell me that I am deluded, that I was "just high", but I know what I experienced. I have come to the conclusion that it's mostly about what you are bringing into the experience with you, but maybe someone else has more to say about this as well...?


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Re: Buddha [Re: lucid]
    #1644794 - 06/19/03 02:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Lucid, that "serious bout with anxiety" is all part of the process. We all have to pass through this phase as some point in our spiritual growth... St John of the Cross, a Christian mystic, called it the "dark night of the soul." Have faith bro, keep plodding along... If you are still feeling anxious and empty, I highly recommend the writings of Ken Wilber. Very scientific-minded but they really helped me a great deal in moving beyond the bottomless pit of existential anxiety and postmodern confusion...


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Re: Buddha [Re: Swami]
    #1644797 - 06/19/03 02:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

>Clarification please. It pains you because you agree with me or
>because you found meditation to be empty?
both... meditation was "empty" (LOL) and the craving
for the Breyer's never went away (Note: not "desire"
for Breyer's but craving, which equtes to suffering
when unfulfilled). Strange, there was a time when
the craving seemed to have dissappeared and I had
intensely blissful moments in meditation, but now it's
all gone...the glimmer of light within has extinguished
(<insert woe unto me dramatization here :grin:>) .
I still have some very wonderful trancendental moments
while meditating, but it's infrequent and more importantly
the underlying sense of peace is gone, replaced by an
underlying sense of confusion, torment, doom and
constant dissatisfaction. Just the truth here. 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Buddha [Re: sunyata]
    #1644814 - 06/19/03 02:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

but it reminds me a lot of what Alan Watts said about LSD: "once you have gotten the message, hang up the phone."

(Heh, heh. The phone rang just as I was typing this and there was no message!)

What if the phone rings again? (i.e. LSD presents itself at another time and place?) I seriously doubt Watts only tripped once!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblesunyata
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Re: Buddha [Re: Swami]
    #1644830 - 06/19/03 02:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
(Heh, heh. The phone rang just as I was typing this and there was no message!)




Woah! It's a sign man! j/k

Quote:

What if the phone rings again? (i.e. LSD presents itself at another time and place?) I seriously doubt Watts only tripped once!




Yep, it may ring again. I don't know. I myself am struggling a bit with the decision of whether or not I should try shrooms again. Like I said, it's been a couple of years. I'm sure there's no harm in it; I think Watts' point was that there are healthier ways to reach these states of consciousness. But I also think it depends entirely on the individual, and I wouldn't condemn anyone who decides to "practice" a drug. I am curious, actually, about what those with long term psychedelic experience have to say about this...



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Offlinec_mathimatics
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Re: Buddha [Re: sunyata]
    #1644851 - 06/19/03 02:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"Dark nights of the soul"... yeah, been there...

Of course marijuana made me too mental, so I gave up all forms of drugs for a while and even drank a _little_ which is totaly against my character.

I was affraid to take mushrooms at first because that is what opened me up to all of the subtle programming I had to deal with. About four months after I decided that taking mushrooms again was within me.

It was the best thing I could have ever done.


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OfflinePed
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Re: Buddha [Re: sunyata]
    #1644886 - 06/19/03 03:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

During my last psychedelic experience, having eaten about 8 grams between myself and my girlfriend whom I care for very deeply, her and I were discussing our feelings for eachother, the nature of love in general. After some time the discussion became very powerful, until we found ourselves in eachother's embrace, emotionally very shaken. It was during this time that I felt and "saw" (for lack of a better word) something I'd never experienced before, something I could only describe as a realization.

It would be nonsense to attempt to articulate it expecting any clarity of the idea to come through the words. Though, undeniably, it was something perceived to be greater than the sum of the involved parts, those being my own psychological construct, that of my girlfriend, our relationship, and the mushrooms we had eaten. It was this overpowering sense of infinite love, compassion, forgiveness, acceptance, amusement.

It felt almost like a 16th century mandolin strumming sprite strolling through the meadow of the universe, stopping to observe for a moment, noting everything understood on this earth in absolute hilarity. Irradiating this infectious wisdom and love, it felt like something was scrutinizing the farthest depths of my heart as simply as we would examine a bus schedule. A terrifyingly peaceful vibration was moving through my being, a song without end, moving on, moving on. It was just overwhelmingly powerful. "God", in all ways the word should be understood.

Now, though, just a vauge memory.

Like yourself, many have told me I was "just high", and I'm sure I haven't heard the last of that. Regardless, the experience has energized my pursuit of this as a lasting state of mind. When we feel peace, we create peace, and others are drawn to that peace and are encouraged to create it for themselves. By striving toward peace, we help create peace for the whole world.

If that's not a worthy goal, I don't know what is.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflinePed
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Re: Buddha [Re: Ped]
    #1644894 - 06/19/03 03:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So long as we're on the telephone metaphor, why not pick up the phone and start dialing? If I need to get my plumbing fixed, do I wait for the plumber to call?


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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Re: Buddha [Re: Ped]
    #1644934 - 06/19/03 03:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hehehe...
Actually I don't like the Watts metaphor.

I think a better one is: "if you don't get through, try another channel".
And if you have a channel that works for you, by all means use it.


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Invisiblesunyata
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Re: Buddha [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1644968 - 06/19/03 03:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So Rhizoid, do you think that for some people psychedelics can safely be used for a lifetime? I have thought (perhaps mistakenly) that while psychedelics did SO MUCH for me, that after learning what I did from them, I should begin pursuing the means to possess this knowledge through myself and the latent potentials of my own mind, rather than through an external "trigger" such as entheogenic mushrooms. In fact, I seem to remember thinking this while I was tripping as well, which is what convinced me to explore eastern techniques of consciousness raising. I do sometimes feel like there is more for me to learn from the psychedelic experience however, and I expect I will be exploring it again sometime in the future...


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Offlineliftedoff420
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1644972 - 06/19/03 03:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

what are you talking about dude

shrooms have definatley "enlightened" me...i feel my eyes have been opened up to the world and i can see the bigger bigger bigger picture, not just "the big picture"



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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: liftedoff420]
    #1645044 - 06/19/03 04:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Do not confuse enlightenment with insight.  Of course psychedelics will help any serious meditator or tripper to develop insight.  You don't need to take a drug to be able to develop a single-point state of mind to analyze any given situation and develope the wisdom to alleviate that given situation.

Enlightenment is a result of effort; not just a switch in your brain that turns on or off.  According to Buddhism we are already in Nirvana.  It's our mind that taints our perceptions of the reality of what we experience.  To be enlightened is not likened to being tripping, it's to be without any mental distortion, without any trappings of Ego.  In my experience I've found that psychedelics can definitely help you gain understanding of consciousness and how your mind is relating to your perceptions...but I never experienced, on psychedelics, the bliss, freedom and insight that my meditational practices bring me.  I'm obviously not enlightened, I still suffer with emotions, attachment and the like...but as far as I'm concerned...the psychedelic experience and meditative states are similar in some egocentric aspects...but they cannot be said to be the same experience.  Someone enlightened/awakened wouldn't sit here whining and bitching that their way is the right/wrong way to enlightenment. 

Whoever was chastizing the quote from HH The Dalai Lama, you missed the entire point.  Mental training and discipline takes years of effort to undo the grasping/ego that our mind developed as we grew from infancy into childhood.  If you think Buddhism is crap, that's fine.  But why sit there and chastize one of the world's most respected leaders and heros of peace?  What did he do to you?  Did you have a bad trip because of his teachings?  :smile:

It's so easy for people to chastize something they themselves have never tried to undertake or experience.  If you're supposedly enlightening yourself with each dose...why so much hatred and anger towards another viewpoint?  Ask yourself that next time you take your dose.

Love & Light,

Boppity


Edited by Boppity604 (06/19/03 04:09 PM)


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Re: Buddha [Re: sunyata]
    #1645096 - 06/19/03 04:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

So Rhizoid, do you think that for some people psychedelics can safely be used for a lifetime? I have thought (perhaps mistakenly) that while psychedelics did SO MUCH for me, that after learning what I did from them, I should begin pursuing the means to possess this knowledge through myself and the latent potentials of my own mind, rather than through an external "trigger" such as entheogenic mushrooms.




Yes, I do believe that psychedelics can be safely used for a lifetime.
There is evidence for this, just look at Maria Sabina for example.

I also believe that in order to make progress you should make every effort possible to embrace those "drug insights" (the good ones, not the fucked-up crazy stuff, you know what I mean) in your everyday life. The mushroom is just an acceleration device for the soul. Use it and re-use it as much as you find necessary, but don't use it as a crutch because it's just an amplifier, it won't do anything without input.


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OfflineVulture
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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1645225 - 06/19/03 04:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizoid said:
Perhaps Meher Baba didn't know anything about LSD, but felt threatened by it because his services as Savior of the Universe might not be needed if "God in a pill" was actually available?





who knows? supposedly he was one with god and knows all. but im not one to say either way....i just read his books because there interesting and about the deepest shit ive ever read. Makes you sit there and just think about shit for hours at a time. I love anything metaphysical.......im addicted


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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Re: If you think you will find enlightenment in a drug... [Re: Vulture]
    #1645276 - 06/19/03 05:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I just want to say this thread kicks ass.  Very interesting and inspiring words. Keep it up :smile:


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