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Anonymous

Are you enlightened?
    #791451 - 08/01/02 09:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

By this I mean the Buddhist meaning. I understand the idea behind it. That the self and the universe are not seperate, but fundamentally One. There is no subject and object, no seeing and that which is being seen, but One. I understand it, but I just don't FEEL it profoundly yet. Sometimes, it hits me hard (usually while my brain is full of psilocybin), but usually, I know I am attached to ego. Does anyone here actually, truly and completely, feel One? What is your story? What happened?


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #791494 - 08/01/02 09:39 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have been to the top of the mountain but I fell back off. I am now working my way back up without cheating.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #791577 - 08/01/02 10:22 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Does anyone here actually, truly and completely, feel One? What is your story? What happened?

I have felt "One" before, but it is not something that I am acquainted with in my everyday life. I can think of four specific times when I have had this feeling of One.

Two of them were non-drug induced and occurred as a result of being completely isolated and secluded from society or any other human contact deep in the heart of Nature.

The other two times were the result of drug usage. One experience occurred after the first (and only) time that I consumed a large dose of mushrooms. The other occurred after taking a large dose of DXM, and was one of the most profound experiences of my life.

All of the experiences with feeling One were profound, though. They are something that I hold as sacred and will remember for all of my life. However, the non-drug induced experiences were more meaningful to me.

I think that drugs are only a key that can open a doorway in your mind. Once the door is unlocked, it will remain unlocked; and you can visit that place again without their aid. The more meaningful parts of that place, at least.


--------------------
Namaste.


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InvisiblePeaceful_Nomad
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #791739 - 08/02/02 01:49 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think that drugs are only a key that can open a doorway in your mind. Once the door is unlocked, it will remain unlocked; and you can visit that place again without their aid. The more meaningful parts of that place, at least.

I agree with your unlocking of the door theory. With regular usage of
mushrooms, I find it much easier to reach the one state in a sober state of
mind. Most of the time I am able to acheive said state, without drug inducement,
through forms of meditation. The effects can be lasting from a fleeting moment to
a day long afterglow.

I would much rather travel through this life focusing on what is pleasant and
beautiful, rather than be sucked into the abyss of darkness we must endure to
be part of this human experience.

Peace to Everyone

Peaceful Nomad


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OfflineHunabKu
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #791788 - 08/02/02 03:23 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Instead of thinking one-ness you might want to think none-nesss. The references of no eye, no ear, no taste, no smell, no touch ... these all come from the heart sutra. At the basis of this sutra is the idea, not of completeness but of emptiness. The sanskrit term is SUNYATA. It encompasses non-self or non-soul--but its use was restricted initially used in describing a person. But when the Mahayana Buddhists came along they said, "Fuck that, let's take this shit to the next level." They said it not only encompassed the underlying emptiness of self but (and here's the mind bender) the emptiness of emptiness. Mahayana Buddhists say that anybody can be a buddha be realizing that there is no attainment and nothing to be attained. So basically if you can come to an elegant "fuck this shit" realization, then you've successfully rowed yourself across to the other shore of liberation.


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OfflineIni
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #791802 - 08/02/02 04:01 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, I tink I have felt this "unity" several times.

The first time I was five or six years old. I hid from beeing fotografed in a huge, hollow yew tree and fell asleep. I had very strange"dreams" there. At this time, my(still) great interest for nature awoke and I besieged my parents with questions.
Many years later, I learnt that yew trees breathe a slightly narcotic/psychoactive gas when it' s hot.

About twelve years later, I had my first shroom trip. For the first time, I realized how small I was in relation to the universe.

I often go hiking in the mountains to escape the noise and the smell of the crowded places. There I feel also close to "a thing I can not give a name".

In my everyday life, I try to treat everything with respect because I think at last I' m related with the whole universe and will get back what I give. Naturaly, I' m not allways sucsessfull with that, and things like anger, greed and envy come through from time to time.

When I feel this unity, the deepest peace, the greatest joy and serenity come over me. it is hard to describe with words.


--------------------
Remain in Light
Greez Ini


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #792072 - 08/02/02 08:39 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

No, I am not enlightened. I would be a fool to say so. Enlightenment is the end of suffering. It's what i'm aiming for, but I don't think it's something i'll reach in this lifetime.

It's not possible to be more enlightened than another person. You are either "enlightened" or "not enlightened". There is no inbetween. So we can play the game of "i'm-more-enlightened-than-you", but all we're doing is playing a game. Enlightenment, on the other hand, is something real.

Oh, and as long as you want it, you can't have it. How about that one?


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Edited by Revelation (08/02/02 09:23 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #792105 - 08/02/02 09:03 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

No.


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Anonymous

Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #792399 - 08/02/02 11:48 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I am not enlightened... but that is my ultimate goal, in this life. However I subscribe to the Bodhisattva way... which is a being that is seeking enlightenment for not only themselves..but for everyone else as well. They will not reach enlightenment until everyone else around them has as well.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #792430 - 08/02/02 12:08 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think you can seek enlightenment. You simply have to uncover it. As the Tao says "To gain knowledge add things every day. To attain wisdom lose things every day".


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #792544 - 08/02/02 01:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Hmmm, ...the self and the universe are not seperate, but fundamentally One. There is no subject and object, no seeing and that which is being seen, but One. I understand it, but I just don't FEEL it profoundly yet.."

Does the universe understand this, does the universe want to FEEL it profoundly ? After all, if you are one with the universe wouldn't it have the same understanding and desires?

Sorry, I'm puzzled. Call me unenlightened.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #792623 - 08/02/02 01:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You're unenlightened.



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Invisiblebuttonion
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #792684 - 08/02/02 02:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

That the self and the universe are not seperate, but fundamentally One. There is no subject and object, no seeing and that which is being seen, but One. I understand it, but I just don't FEEL it profoundly yet. Sometimes, it hits me hard (usually while my brain is full of psilocybin), but usually, I know I am attached to ego.



Dude, I can totally relate. I feel like I have a pretty good intellectual grasp of some of the insights of Buddhist enlightenment, but somehow I just can?t feel it. When I say I can?t feel it, I mean it isn?t quite intuitive yet, the insights are not part of my default way of experiencing and for some reason their profoundness does not strike me in the way they have before.

I have been trying to meditate on some of the key insights of Buddhism and Taoism lately (e.g., dependent co-origination, emptiness, no-self). I am just trying to slow down and spend a lot of time with each one and hopefully "it" will all slowly come together. Some people would call it an analytical meditation. I?m going to see if this works for me, you mignt want to give it a try. Good luck!


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: buttonion]
    #792754 - 08/02/02 03:39 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

!00% enlightenment = Ego death (one with god)

I'm heading in that direction, but I don't know if I want to go all the way. I like my ego. God seems to be my temptation thow.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #793261 - 08/02/02 08:23 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think ther is a destination "Enlightenment" or an end to the road to enlightenment. It is a journey not a destination. If it does happen I imagine it will be on my death bed. But I think I am on that journey.


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineGreyMatter
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #794055 - 08/03/02 10:39 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

To feel one is to be completely egoless.
Which, I believe in this lifetime is not possible. (For me anyway)

To be egoless is to sacrifice everything that is an ideal of your own.
But to sacrifice one thing for another is not selfless really.
You are just sacrificing one ideal for another.
As long as you 'TRY' to become egoless, it is impossible.
So, I really have no idea how one can.


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InvisibleSpiffy
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ]
    #796572 - 08/04/02 09:25 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Not yet But someday, each of us will be enlightened. It is the purpose for our many lives. We each have our own personal path we must follow, but ultimitley, we all become enlightened and our spirit joins creation.


--------------------
Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you,
there is only one of us."


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OfflineViBrAnT
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Spiffy]
    #797931 - 08/05/02 02:29 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

it may interest you to know that i have bridged the gap between self and universe, i will post a diagram soon which came to me through a chanelling during energy work, it'll blow your mind cause its so painfully obvious how it has been missed, either that or people arent just talking about it. it explains my last mush trip as well which i have been confused about for a while which centred around CWG, ever wonder where that voice was coming from?


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "




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OfflineJediFish
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Anonymous]
    #8572379 - 06/27/08 10:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not...i've been searching for that euphoria forever yet i have never been able to find such. It's quite sad when you think about it really.
But who hasn't been searching for it? i think everyone has whether they know it or not. And all these clouds in the way like pride, envy, and lust just lead us farther astray.

It's almost like we are cats. Have you ever taken something attached to a string and teased a cat making it seem like it would be able to catch it until you yanked it away? Well that is life a cold hard bitch who just teases you in hopes that you will leap into it's disheartening arms that discern us and leave us blank.

Or maybe these shrooms are really potent.
Life?
You may choose 2
Life
Life 0


Votes accepted from (06/27/08 02:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Once upon a time... In a shoomery far far away... JEDIFISH!


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: JediFish]
    #8572399 - 06/27/08 10:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

****ALERT****    ****ALERT****
6 YEAR OLD THREAD BUMP
****ALERT****    ****ALERT****

:tongue:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #8572423 - 06/27/08 10:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

it may interest you to know that i have bridged the gap between self and universe, i will post a diagram soon which came to me through a chanelling during energy work, it'll blow your mind cause its so painfully obvious how it has been missed, either that or people arent just talking about it.




I'm really looking forward to it. Any time now. :crankey:

:grin:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Cameron]
    #8572437 - 06/27/08 10:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

LoL, I don't recognize many names that have posted in this thread.....   
Maybe it was a very complicated drawing....!


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8572506 - 06/27/08 11:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Man, it only took me three minutes. I think this is what he was shooting for:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2231/bridgegapop2.png


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Cameron]
    #8572558 - 06/27/08 11:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)



:rofl2:  :rofl2:  :rofl2:  :rofl2:  :rofl2: 

Well, maybe he fell off the bridge and drown....!?    :ohwell:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8572586 - 06/27/08 11:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I hope the poor guy's alright. :shake:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Cameron]
    #8572620 - 06/27/08 11:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Your little cartoon guy has a striking resemblance to Ernie, from Bert and Ernie....    :lol:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Anonymous]
    #8573545 - 06/28/08 08:54 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i was a lot heavier before
but my weight has not changed


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Anonymous]
    #8573609 - 06/28/08 09:42 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I am. I just have a different definition then you might.:D


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: HunabKu]
    #8573789 - 06/28/08 11:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

HunabKu said:
Instead of thinking one-ness you might want to think none-nesss. The references of no eye, no ear, no taste, no smell, no touch ... these all come from the heart sutra. At the basis of this sutra is the idea, not of completeness but of emptiness. The sanskrit term is SUNYATA. It encompasses  non-self or non-soul--but its use was restricted initially used in describing a person. But when the Mahayana Buddhists came along they said, "Fuck that, let's take this shit to the next level." They said it not only encompassed the underlying emptiness of self but (and here's the mind bender) the emptiness of emptiness. Mahayana Buddhists say that anybody can be a buddha be realizing that there is no attainment and nothing to be attained. So basically if you can come to an elegant "fuck this shit" realization, then you've successfully rowed yourself across to the other shore of liberation. 




emptiness :heart:

:rose:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8573901 - 06/28/08 12:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
LoL, I don't recognize many names that have posted in this thread.....   
Maybe it was a very complicated drawing....!


>^;;^<




Or maybe he killed himself: ViBrAnT's Obituary

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1714333

Tragic.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8574284 - 06/28/08 03:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Why is this tragic? He obviously was not happy here and took some action to remedy the situation. We all die and very quickly really. Not tragic, it's Tao in action.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8574290 - 06/28/08 03:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The under tao?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8574313 - 06/28/08 03:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yes indeed.



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8574372 - 06/28/08 03:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Well, maybe he fell off the bridge and drown....!?




Quote:

On Friday, June 11th he committed suicide by jumping off the train bridge behind the university... he died instantly on impact.




He didn't drown but he did jump off a bridge. Weird coincidence. Poor guy. :undecided:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8575858 - 06/29/08 12:45 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Why is this tragic? He obviously was not happy here and took some action to remedy the situation. We all die and very quickly really. Not tragic, it's Tao in action.




One shot answer. Then, you're on your own:

From the Tao, Verse 54:

Cultivate harmony within yourself, and harmony becomes real;
Cultivate harmony within your family, and harmony becomes fertile;
Cultivate harmony within your community, and harmony becomes abundant;
Cultivate harmony within your culture, and harmony becomes enduring;
Cultivate harmony within the world, and harmony becomes ubiquitous.

Live with a person to understand that person;
Live with a family to understand that family;
Live with a community to understand that community;
Live with a culture to understand that culture;
Live with the world to understand the world.

How can I live with the world?
By accepting.




Evidently, you don't understand the Tao.

Taoism discussed at a suicide forum

Quote:

Muslim, Christian, and Jewish religious tradition (in that order) are particularly strong in condemning suicide as a response to personal problems or suffering, whereas Buddhist, Tao, and Hindu traditions, while opposed to suicide, are not as strongly so.




Faith and Mental Health: Religious Resources for Healing By Harold George Koenig  pg. 103

Another book by Dr. Koenig:Handbook of Religion and Mental Health   Pick it up and read it; it will correct your confusion.

Quote:

Suicide is not a Taoist option, either. It is a form of murder, self murder, and, as the Tao Te Ching says, if we take up the act of killing, instead of letting life follow through its natural course, then we will only emerge with bloody hands - i.e. not really accomplishing what we set out to do.  A Taoist would be especially averse to suicide for reasons of failing to live up to certain social or economic standards.  Such concerns should not matter in the larger scheme of things.  If only those depressed Chinese teenagers could see past their immediate frustrations and open themselves to Way, maybe fewer of them would die unnecessary deaths.






From:  The Useless Tree: Teenage Suicide: Losing Their Way


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8576637 - 06/29/08 09:22 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Why is this tragic? He obviously was not happy here and took some action to remedy the situation. We all die and very quickly really. Not tragic, it's Tao in action.




One shot answer. Then, you're on your own:

From the Tao, Verse 54:

Cultivate harmony within yourself, and harmony becomes real;
Cultivate harmony within your family, and harmony becomes fertile;
Cultivate harmony within your community, and harmony becomes abundant;
Cultivate harmony within your culture, and harmony becomes enduring;
Cultivate harmony within the world, and harmony becomes ubiquitous.

Live with a person to understand that person;
Live with a family to understand that family;
Live with a community to understand that community;
Live with a culture to understand that culture;
Live with the world to understand the world.

How can I live with the world?
By accepting.




Evidently, you don't understand the Tao.

Taoism discussed at a suicide forum

Quote:

Muslim, Christian, and Jewish religious tradition (in that order) are particularly strong in condemning suicide as a response to personal problems or suffering, whereas Buddhist, Tao, and Hindu traditions, while opposed to suicide, are not as strongly so.




Faith and Mental Health: Religious Resources for Healing By Harold George Koenig  pg. 103

Another book by Dr. Koenig:Handbook of Religion and Mental Health   Pick it up and read it; it will correct your confusion.

Quote:

Suicide is not a Taoist option, either. It is a form of murder, self murder, and, as the Tao Te Ching says, if we take up the act of killing, instead of letting life follow through its natural course, then we will only emerge with bloody hands - i.e. not really accomplishing what we set out to do.  A Taoist would be especially averse to suicide for reasons of failing to live up to certain social or economic standards.  Such concerns should not matter in the larger scheme of things.  If only those depressed Chinese teenagers could see past their immediate frustrations and open themselves to Way, maybe fewer of them would die unnecessary deaths.






From:  The Useless Tree: Teenage Suicide: Losing Their Way




Thanks as IMO this quote supports my and his position.:thumbup:

How can I live with the world?
By accepting.


Death=life in tao.



As to the rest of your post you are talking about the Tao as religion and moralizing which is meaningless IMO. IMO I understand the Ultimate Tao much better than most "Taoists" on these religious forums. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (06/29/08 09:24 AM)


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OfflineOrbus
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Anonymous]
    #8576685 - 06/29/08 10:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
By this I mean the Buddhist meaning.  I understand the idea behind it.  That the self and the universe are not seperate, but fundamentally One.  There is no subject and object, no seeing and that which is being seen, but One.  I understand it, but I just don't FEEL it profoundly yet.  Sometimes, it hits me hard (usually while my brain is full of psilocybin), but usually, I know I am attached to ego.  Does anyone here actually, truly and completely, feel One?  What is your story? What happened? 




I was just thinking about this this morning. I think there is a difference between knowing and Knowing that all is one. You say you understand the idea that all is one and that you believe that all is one. But is there really any good reason for you to believe this. Basically your just repeating this knowledge second hand from someone who take to be an authority. On the other hand no one has to explain to you that you are alive, nor do you have to learn it. You don't have to understand it, you Know it from direct, personal experience. In the same way if you really want to Know that all is one you have to look with your own eyes and see if it is in fact true or not.

Does anything exist other than this present moment that isn't a creation of thought and memory. Right now, there are visual, auditory, tactile sensations, emotions, and thoughts. But is there anything else. Is there any such thing as a future or past except as a presently arising thought. If you  look deeply enough you can find that all there is is This. And if This is all there is then This is One, This is enlightenment, This is it!


--------------------

------------------------------------------------------
Really, the fundamental, ultimate mystery -- the only thing you need to know to understand the deepest metaphysical secrets -- is this: that for every outside there is an inside and for every inside there is an outside, and although they are different, they go together. - Alan Watts


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Anonymous]
    #8576691 - 06/29/08 10:07 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I am still working on developing attitudes with balanced uncertainty and appreciation


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8578128 - 06/29/08 08:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Well, maybe he fell off the bridge and drown....!?    :ohwell:
.
>^;;^<




Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:
Or maybe he killed himself: ViBrAnT's Obituary
.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1714333
.
Tragic.




Quote:

sTePpInGoNsToNeS said:
ViBrAnT's real name was Mike Derksen
On Friday, June 11th he committed suicide by jumping off the train bridge behind the university... he died instantly on impact.





WoWzerZ~....!?    :eek:
Those psychic exercises I have been doing seem to be paying off....!    :woot:  :woot:
Gettin' closer everyday....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Cameron]
    #8578136 - 06/29/08 08:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cameron said:
He didn't drown but he did jump off a bridge. Weird coincidence. Poor guy. :undecided:




Well, he didn't drown by "external" means....
What do you mean "coincidence".....???    :mad:
I was obviously channeling....  :smirk:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Revelation]
    #8579859 - 06/30/08 09:45 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Revelation said:
No, I am not enlightened.  I would be a fool to say so.  Enlightenment is the end of suffering.  It's what i'm aiming for, but I don't think it's something i'll reach in this lifetime.

It's not possible to be more enlightened than another person.  You are either "enlightened" or "not enlightened".  There is no inbetween.  So we can play the game of "i'm-more-enlightened-than-you", but all we're doing is playing a game.  Enlightenment, on the other hand, is something real.

Oh, and as long as you want it, you can't have it.  How about that one? 




If en-light-en-ment is as spelled and a literal meaning then some people will be more light than others.


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8579892 - 06/30/08 10:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:


:rofl2:  :rofl2:  :rofl2:  :rofl2:  :rofl2: 

Well, maybe he fell off the bridge and drown....!?    :ohwell:


>^;;^<




So this then is a picture of reality as described in the highest paths of tantra, as well as in psychotherapy.  That is, the knower, known and means of knowledge are three with the means of knowledge providing the means of plumbing the gap, as it was.

Most people fill this gap arbitrarily, but the reality is that all three can be one in samadhi which is when no gap exists, but then,

how do you live with the gap filled?  While yet engaging in dualistic subject-object relationship? 

Well, of course one needs to start with full jnana of that turiyatitha or transcendental state of self awareness and then plunge into action until that state of transcendence no longer is destructed by anything. 

Then the gap lengthens as one develops more insight until they have divine inner vision while yet engaged in reality. 

Until the mind retains unity of natural state of samadhi even in action. This is not what one thinks. It is also not a state of mind because the mind has become undone and the discrimination has stopped. Thus knowledge and cognition have ceased. But one needs true insight for this road, and where shall you get it?

Generally the guru will point it out. Something like this, he will look in your face and point at your nose and say, "You are it!" And when he looks at you you will feel the expansiveness of your own mind free of form and judgement, and you will let go of all your notions and just let the mind come to rest and be simple and innocent.

Now if you were able to function like that you would be lucky but here's the thing. You need to rest in that state of restfulness and also be able to move really fast and think on your toes. You are not allowed to maintain the state through concentration against thoughts.

So the path is one of learning how to rest.
Which includes the whole of moral training.


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Adamist]
    #8603096 - 07/07/08 05:56 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Adamist said:
I have been to the top of the mountain but I fell back off. I am now working my way back up <img style="max-width:100%;height:auto;" src="/forums/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> 




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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: eve69]
    #8603440 - 07/07/08 10:51 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Generally the guru will point it out. Something like this, he will look in your face and point at your nose and say, "You are it!" And when he looks at you you will feel the expansiveness of your own mind free of form and judgement, and you will let go of all your notions and just let the mind come to rest and be simple and innocent.


Yeah these gurus have super powers. Especially when it comes to getting your money and girls and such.

If you really want the expansive experience I suggest several hits of really good acid.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8603472 - 07/07/08 11:06 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

you get more girls and money if you do a deft nose poke from time to time
(and you get to keep the acid for yourself! guru-ing has a subtle scent - hence the importance of the nose)


--------------------


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8603765 - 07/07/08 01:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Acid rules

Guru drools.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8603939 - 07/07/08 01:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Im gonna try acid for the first time soon, im looking forward to it :grin:
I figure i gotta try it once to see what its all about. Planning on lots of meditation and krazy music at some point.

And to "are you enlightened?", enlightenment is ever present, the realization there is no "you" to be enlightened dissolves the idea of "you" and leaves enlightenment.
No individual can become enlightened.
I know how annoying this sounds but its true.
Dont believe me? Try to "get" enlightened and see how annoying that is!

On the guru thing, i reckon its good to have a guru as i seemed to awaken intensley after finding my guru, before that it was an up & down journey of joy & intense suffering, the guru destroyed my attachment to thoughts, eventually you realize that the guru is everywhere & then the concept of some individual dude being a guru falls away. Then life is the teacher.


:peace:


--------------------


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8604013 - 07/07/08 02:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

oh oh


--------------------


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8604018 - 07/07/08 02:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Acid rules

Guru drools.




ha!
dribble a biddle, toodles.


--------------------


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8605821 - 07/07/08 10:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

And to "are you enlightened?", enlightenment is ever present, the realization there is no "you" to be enlightened dissolves the idea of "you" and leaves enlightenment.
No individual can become enlightened.
I know how annoying this sounds but its true.


I read this in a book also but that doesn't make it true. This is just your subjective opinion unless you have something to present besides your speculation.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8609043 - 07/08/08 07:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Generally the guru will point it out. Something like this, he will look in your face and point at your nose and say, "You are it!" And when he looks at you you will feel the expansiveness of your own mind free of form and judgement, and you will let go of all your notions and just let the mind come to rest and be simple and innocent.


Yeah these gurus have super powers. Especially when it comes to getting your money and girls and such.

If you really want the expansive experience I suggest several hits of really good acid.




Yeah, well, there are good gurus, but you have to know what they are.


--------------------
...or something







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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: eve69]
    #8609876 - 07/08/08 10:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Please enlighten me.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8613690 - 07/09/08 06:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
And to "are you enlightened?", enlightenment is ever present, the realization there is no "you" to be enlightened dissolves the idea of "you" and leaves enlightenment.
No individual can become enlightened.
I know how annoying this sounds but its true.


I read this in a book also but that doesn't make it true. This is just your subjective opinion unless you have something to present besides your speculation.




I don't present speculation, i present my experience, speculation is for fools.
I dont mean that in a mean way but whats speculation? Whats the point in it?

I seriously want you to get this man, your asking me for objective proof of something which isn't an object! No-one will ever have objective proof of this, you simply cant present an object of this as its the subject!
You seem interested in this higher consciousness stuff which is why i want you to get it  so bad! At some point on your path you will have to see this, that NO object can hold the truth as the truth is constant and all objects come & go. Your asking me present nothingness to you as an object!

Knowing is experience, imo the two are inseparable if you seek truth.
You can only know something is true from your own direct experience, otherwise its hearsay.

:peace:


--------------------


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8613754 - 07/09/08 06:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

what if you have outgrown "truth" but have tons of respect for "honesty" and kindness?


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8613762 - 07/09/08 06:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Speculation:

  1. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
  2. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
  3. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

Clearly, assertions based solely upon your subjective, unverifiable experience are not supported by "conclusive evidence," and so must be classified as speculation (#2 and #3).  Though you repeatedly claim that your opinions (or perhaps Mooji's?) are facts and truths, you have provided no support for these claims.

BTW, I am not saying that you should be able to provide evidence.  What I am saying is that it is important to acknowledge that your opinions about what is true are more "best guess" than absolute truth. 


Edited by Veritas (07/09/08 06:40 PM)


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8613904 - 07/09/08 06:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You need to make your own Mooji videos...  Final answer.  Dahmmnit.:shrug:


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8614695 - 07/09/08 10:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:


I seriously want you to get this man, your asking me for objective proof of something which isn't an object! No-one will ever have objective proof of this, you simply cant present an object of this as its the subject!





Subjectivity and objectivity are two words constantly misused.  Any thought can be an intelligible object of the mind; thereby rendering it "objective."  Otherwise we fall into idealism where reality is only ideas and cannot exist outside the mind or solipsism where an external reality may exist, but we may not know it.  Both doctrines are axiomatically reductio ad absurdum.


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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8616550 - 07/10/08 10:35 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

don't present speculation, i present my experience, speculation is for fools.

Just to inform you, you are speculating on the nature of your experience. I or someone else could have that experience (and many here may have) and would interpret it very differently.

Unless of course you are the creator of all this and don't have a finite understanding and  so knows what all of our experiences mean. And while speculation is not foolish to believe it is absolute truth is.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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