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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6994032 - 06/01/07 01:33 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

:smile:



>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinesurge
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6994150 - 06/01/07 02:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

well im gona try this one but i still dont claim to know it all so nothing much to argue with me about since ill prob not disagree with w.e anyone thinks

but enlightment is mostly a different meaning to people since that area has been so widened

but to me its nothing more then Shine or Light in ones self

cause to us life is a room that we mysteriously showed up to
and mostly the room is dark caused by guilt, anger, stress and most of all decisions

now to get rid of the dark the only way to do it is by learning to shine the light and its much much harder doing then saying
and by doing this you must eliminate all thats negative and i mean ALL (from yourself, from others, from society and from life)

we all posses the power of light, to show the way (decisions) but then comes our thoughts thinking if its the right way, is there another way and it goes on an on
so we can shine the light
but then we start thinking is this the right way
is it pointed to the right direction
and from that thinking you cause darkness coming in again

its good to widen your decisions till that one comes that makes the most sense that feels the best and there you achieved a light, maybe a small one, but its a start that can expand the whole room
the room has no limit but that doesnt mean you dont achieve one step of the stairs to another
we cant be so eager to stop going up the stairs
but being happy that we have moved from one step to another
because we all know that the stairs are always going and goin
but thats ok

so overall from light to enlightment
you must learn to cover the room with all the light, from every inches and a shadow shouldnt be found
but

and in doing this you recieve
confidence, the best decisions in any situation, a full self and the list goes on to positive and more positive

For me i just see it as a light that must cover the dark thats in us most of the time. And of course its hard since we have no guide to life and what to do but its all a direction of the best path for you and others (even if you dont see them with you, people and things are always attached to you)

in best terms of light vs darkness
you must see that darkness is never really there
the monster in the closet is only behind the door in your head
with light or dark in the closet its still a closet
the rest is created in your head

--overall if what i said doesnt make sense
*nothing holds you back cause you relise its only you who does
everything you ever searched for was already there

((PS)))...if wat im saying is comlpetly wrong then please PM me, no way of knowing your moving forward if its been wrong since the start

im sure it is like this for now until i look and learn more


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: spiritualemerg]
    #6994294 - 06/01/07 04:07 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

To your addendum:

A man I know had taking acid for the first time when he said
this is like enlightenment. I didn't comment on that. Importantly he
himself said "this is like" but not it. I don't know if he caught
on to that or not, nor if he meant it or not. But that's for him, not me, although
it's clear his state was not permament. I also imagine enlightenment
as a state where such claims and weak self-insights might arise, but
are dealt with mindfulness and do not consume the enlightened person's consciousness.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: Lakefingers]
    #6994434 - 06/01/07 06:16 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Lakefingers:
anything identified by associative mind is like something else or links to something else because some property it has is like some property something else has.
your acid buddy has a preconceived notion of enlightenment that his experience matched.
That notion may be from stories or an actual experience he has had that surpasses others buried in his memory.
Being as enlightenment is elusively entangled with the ongoing flux,
and that it is not any particular single shape of the flux,
all the preconceived notions are error,
but some notions will still be enlightening.

surge:
there are at least 2 aspects to light, one contrasts to dark (as you indicate) and another contrasts to heaviness (which relates to immobility).
in both cases the inclusive duality is an important part of the image, en-lightenment suggests that a measure of lightness is brought into the darker picture.
both light and dark are important partials.
fear of dark, and fear of heaviness are not necessary. the mix of dark and light is where vitality begins.
the image I would leave you with is 'yin-yang' in which light and dark refresh eachother and are mobilized together.




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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: Ravus]
    #6994810 - 06/01/07 11:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

There is no you to attain enlightenment,

Speak for yourself, oh enlightened one.:tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: palmersc]
    #6994822 - 06/01/07 11:06 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

palmersc said:
it's ok. all appropriate.

there is no need to go anywhere to find out who you are. but a realized being can facilitate the process.

but these guys aren't saying anything you don't already know. so the mind hears it and it really isn't intended for the mind. these truths go past the mind and into the silence which knows.

i know you dig castaneda's work and i do too. what don juan was doing when he talked to the tonal or mind was trick it into letting the nagual hear what was going on and awaken.

while don juan is cleverly hacking away at the cords which keep carlos in the trance state, his mind is busy trying to compute and being frustrated. at some point the mind sees its limitations and gives in to the unknown.

attention is no longer fixated on the limited tonal which he had built up, and he can see the totality of himself. it does not depend on age or social class or education. it is entirely intuitive.

so really when you read these things it is best to just let them seep in and not think about them. and of course it is best to listen to somebody who can see since they are dealing out the real deal.

i just find it helpful to try and put into words what resonates for me. kind of like carlos always writing. it doesn't matter though.




Pretty good, all that.

My point being that enlightenment is not anything that interferes with our being human and full of shit. It all co-exists in strange proximity.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: Icelander]
    #6995509 - 06/01/07 02:50 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
There is no you to attain enlightenment,

Speak for yourself, oh enlightened one.:tongue:




It seems more logical to speak of existence in the circumstances. My existence, your existence, my words, your words, where is the black line between the two?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: Ravus]
    #6995573 - 06/01/07 03:05 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

There's a black line?:whoa:

Maybe a flat line will solve the debate.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: Icelander]
    #6995584 - 06/01/07 03:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry, LOL.


--------------------


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6995617 - 06/01/07 03:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

This is so confusing :blazed:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6996172 - 06/01/07 05:45 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

chop wood...
carry water...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: gnrm23]
    #6996214 - 06/01/07 06:01 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Eat burgers

Fart loud.:thumbup:

My aren't we wise?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: Icelander]
    #6996976 - 06/01/07 10:25 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Burgers


--------------------


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6998526 - 06/02/07 04:43 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I love this word mind. It has few counterparts in other languages.
What a good framework to associate things into and even dangerously
(mis)guide conversation

The bringing of light, the gathering into a clearing, the uncovering,
the surge from the well of light into the dark and vice versa, is the
covering, uncovering (aletheic) aspect. Thanks for the image. Alethic!

Among other qualities of light: wet and dry, which are a yang of heavy
and light. "Cold things warm up, the hot cools off, wet becomes dry, dry becomes
wet" (Herakleitos).


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: Lakefingers]
    #6998612 - 06/02/07 05:32 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

the word mind is a riot i agree
the associative mind underlies that and is even more of a riot.
lots of psycho drama and posturing goes on.
I am thinking of ants at a picnic.


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Invisiblespiritualemerg
Stranger

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 366
Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7005513 - 06/04/07 12:03 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hello palmer -- I'm back from a weekend away and thought I'd revisit this thread.

palmer: this whole conversation about enlightenment lately might be a little too in your face. but the whole process is natural. evolution of consciousness and it's entirely impersonal. not in a negative way... just not about you.

I think it's possible you misunderstand my position. As earlier noted, two labels were given to my experience by those who witnessed it; the first was enlightened, the second was schizophrenic. [Since then, I've discovered a number of other terms.] I explored both those labels and ultimately rejected both, but in the process I learned a little about each of them.

If you want to understand "schizophrenia" you study the experiences of people who are reputed to be schizophrenic; if you want to understand "enlightenment" you study the experiences of people who are reputed to be enlightened. There are some famous historical examples we can draw from, such as Jesus Christ or Buddha and then there are some not so historical and not so famous, e.g.: Osho, Sai Baba, Andrew Cohen, Ken Wilber, the Dali Lama and countless gurus, masters and teachers on the internet.

In order to assess whether or not "we" are enlightened or someone else is, we need to have a marker we can measure ourselves and those others against. If you run this term through a search engine, you're going to come up with lots of answers and many of them don't agree within one another: What is enlightenment? Pinning down a definition of what enlightenment actually is is about as difficult as pinning down a definitive cause of schizophrenia. But presuming we could pin one down, then what? What if I was an enlightened human being, or you were? What happens then? Does the world become a better place for everyone? Do we cease to feel joy or pain or delight or anguish? Would babies smile with joy in our very presence? Would men admire us and women love us? Would we have our own talk show? commune?? harem??? Would we be feared and powerful? Loved and powerless? What would be the motivations for wanting to be "enlightened"?

I'm fast running out of steam in this response but for those who are interested, here's a few good links I've picked up in my explorations. It's all good food for thought...


.


--------------------
~ Kindness is cheap.  It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.

Blogs: Spiritual Emergency | Spiritual Recovery | Voices of Recovery | A Jungian Approach to Psychosis


Edited by spiritualemerg (06/04/07 12:26 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: spiritualemerg]
    #7005577 - 06/04/07 12:24 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I didn't read all of these but enough to see that I agree with basically what they are saying.

I think it's hard to stay true to yourself. Often when you are having the success you are looking for. In Carlos Castaneda's books the warriors way is stressed throughout all his works for this reason. Sobriety and losing self-importance are some of the most difficult parts of any spiritual life path.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblespiritualemerg
Stranger

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 366
Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: surge]
    #7005803 - 06/04/07 01:20 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

surge: ... mostly the room is dark caused by guilt, anger, stress and most of all decisions

now to get rid of the dark ...

For me i just see it as a light that must cover the dark thats in us most of the time....

in best terms of light vs darkness
you must see that darkness is never really there
the monster in the closet is only behind the door in your head
with light or dark in the closet its still a closet
the rest is created in your head...


Re: Darkness and Shadows...

    The New Age seeks to denigrate the dark. They speak of only the light. But they misunderstand the true significance of the dark and of the black. They fail to realize that there can be no light without dark. They fail to see that the light can only be perceived through the background of darkness.

    Within black is all things. All things manifest from the black.

    Source: The Black Madonna


See also:

  • The Shadow
  • Encountering Darkness
  • Really Get to Know the Bottom



    Music of the Hour: More Than This


    .


  • Edited by spiritualemerg (06/04/07 01:38 AM)


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    Invisiblespiritualemerg
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    Registered: 03/28/07
    Posts: 366
    Re: You know that you actually ARE Enlightened....(?) [Re: Icelander]
        #7006163 - 06/04/07 03:13 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

    Icelander: I didn't read all of these but enough to see that I agree with basically what they are saying.

    I think it's hard to stay true to yourself...


    Quote:

    The wise Rabbi Bunam once said in old age, when he had already grown blind: "I should not like to change places with our father Abraham! What good would it do God if Abraham became like blind Bunam, and blind Bunam became like Abraham? Rather than have this happen, I think I shall try to become a little more myself." The same idea was expressed with even greater pregnancy by Rabbi Zusya, when he said a short while before his death: "In the world to come I shall not be asked: 'Why were you not Moses?' I shall be asked: 'Why were you not Zusya?'"

    ~ Martin Buber (1878-1965),
    German philosopher,
    in The Way of Man


    Source: Markers on the Path to Personal Authenticity






    .


    Edited by spiritualemerg (06/04/07 03:21 AM)


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