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Offlineeve69
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Revelation]
    #8579859 - 06/30/08 09:45 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Revelation said:
No, I am not enlightened.  I would be a fool to say so.  Enlightenment is the end of suffering.  It's what i'm aiming for, but I don't think it's something i'll reach in this lifetime.

It's not possible to be more enlightened than another person.  You are either "enlightened" or "not enlightened".  There is no inbetween.  So we can play the game of "i'm-more-enlightened-than-you", but all we're doing is playing a game.  Enlightenment, on the other hand, is something real.

Oh, and as long as you want it, you can't have it.  How about that one? 




If en-light-en-ment is as spelled and a literal meaning then some people will be more light than others.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8579892 - 06/30/08 10:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:


:rofl2:  :rofl2:  :rofl2:  :rofl2:  :rofl2: 

Well, maybe he fell off the bridge and drown....!?    :ohwell:


>^;;^<




So this then is a picture of reality as described in the highest paths of tantra, as well as in psychotherapy.  That is, the knower, known and means of knowledge are three with the means of knowledge providing the means of plumbing the gap, as it was.

Most people fill this gap arbitrarily, but the reality is that all three can be one in samadhi which is when no gap exists, but then,

how do you live with the gap filled?  While yet engaging in dualistic subject-object relationship? 

Well, of course one needs to start with full jnana of that turiyatitha or transcendental state of self awareness and then plunge into action until that state of transcendence no longer is destructed by anything. 

Then the gap lengthens as one develops more insight until they have divine inner vision while yet engaged in reality. 

Until the mind retains unity of natural state of samadhi even in action. This is not what one thinks. It is also not a state of mind because the mind has become undone and the discrimination has stopped. Thus knowledge and cognition have ceased. But one needs true insight for this road, and where shall you get it?

Generally the guru will point it out. Something like this, he will look in your face and point at your nose and say, "You are it!" And when he looks at you you will feel the expansiveness of your own mind free of form and judgement, and you will let go of all your notions and just let the mind come to rest and be simple and innocent.

Now if you were able to function like that you would be lucky but here's the thing. You need to rest in that state of restfulness and also be able to move really fast and think on your toes. You are not allowed to maintain the state through concentration against thoughts.

So the path is one of learning how to rest.
Which includes the whole of moral training.


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Invisibleindica
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Adamist]
    #8603096 - 07/07/08 05:56 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Adamist said:
I have been to the top of the mountain but I fell back off. I am now working my way back up <img style="max-width:100%;height:auto;" src="/forums/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> 




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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: eve69]
    #8603440 - 07/07/08 10:51 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Generally the guru will point it out. Something like this, he will look in your face and point at your nose and say, "You are it!" And when he looks at you you will feel the expansiveness of your own mind free of form and judgement, and you will let go of all your notions and just let the mind come to rest and be simple and innocent.


Yeah these gurus have super powers. Especially when it comes to getting your money and girls and such.

If you really want the expansive experience I suggest several hits of really good acid.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8603472 - 07/07/08 11:06 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

you get more girls and money if you do a deft nose poke from time to time
(and you get to keep the acid for yourself! guru-ing has a subtle scent - hence the importance of the nose)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8603765 - 07/07/08 01:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Acid rules

Guru drools.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8603939 - 07/07/08 01:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Im gonna try acid for the first time soon, im looking forward to it :grin:
I figure i gotta try it once to see what its all about. Planning on lots of meditation and krazy music at some point.

And to "are you enlightened?", enlightenment is ever present, the realization there is no "you" to be enlightened dissolves the idea of "you" and leaves enlightenment.
No individual can become enlightened.
I know how annoying this sounds but its true.
Dont believe me? Try to "get" enlightened and see how annoying that is!

On the guru thing, i reckon its good to have a guru as i seemed to awaken intensley after finding my guru, before that it was an up & down journey of joy & intense suffering, the guru destroyed my attachment to thoughts, eventually you realize that the guru is everywhere & then the concept of some individual dude being a guru falls away. Then life is the teacher.


:peace:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8604013 - 07/07/08 02:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

oh oh


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8604018 - 07/07/08 02:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Acid rules

Guru drools.




ha!
dribble a biddle, toodles.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8605821 - 07/07/08 10:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

And to "are you enlightened?", enlightenment is ever present, the realization there is no "you" to be enlightened dissolves the idea of "you" and leaves enlightenment.
No individual can become enlightened.
I know how annoying this sounds but its true.


I read this in a book also but that doesn't make it true. This is just your subjective opinion unless you have something to present besides your speculation.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8609043 - 07/08/08 07:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Generally the guru will point it out. Something like this, he will look in your face and point at your nose and say, "You are it!" And when he looks at you you will feel the expansiveness of your own mind free of form and judgement, and you will let go of all your notions and just let the mind come to rest and be simple and innocent.


Yeah these gurus have super powers. Especially when it comes to getting your money and girls and such.

If you really want the expansive experience I suggest several hits of really good acid.




Yeah, well, there are good gurus, but you have to know what they are.


--------------------
...or something







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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: eve69]
    #8609876 - 07/08/08 10:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Please enlighten me.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Icelander]
    #8613690 - 07/09/08 06:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
And to "are you enlightened?", enlightenment is ever present, the realization there is no "you" to be enlightened dissolves the idea of "you" and leaves enlightenment.
No individual can become enlightened.
I know how annoying this sounds but its true.


I read this in a book also but that doesn't make it true. This is just your subjective opinion unless you have something to present besides your speculation.




I don't present speculation, i present my experience, speculation is for fools.
I dont mean that in a mean way but whats speculation? Whats the point in it?

I seriously want you to get this man, your asking me for objective proof of something which isn't an object! No-one will ever have objective proof of this, you simply cant present an object of this as its the subject!
You seem interested in this higher consciousness stuff which is why i want you to get it  so bad! At some point on your path you will have to see this, that NO object can hold the truth as the truth is constant and all objects come & go. Your asking me present nothingness to you as an object!

Knowing is experience, imo the two are inseparable if you seek truth.
You can only know something is true from your own direct experience, otherwise its hearsay.

:peace:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8613754 - 07/09/08 06:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

what if you have outgrown "truth" but have tons of respect for "honesty" and kindness?


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8613762 - 07/09/08 06:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Speculation:

  1. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
  2. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
  3. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

Clearly, assertions based solely upon your subjective, unverifiable experience are not supported by "conclusive evidence," and so must be classified as speculation (#2 and #3).  Though you repeatedly claim that your opinions (or perhaps Mooji's?) are facts and truths, you have provided no support for these claims.

BTW, I am not saying that you should be able to provide evidence.  What I am saying is that it is important to acknowledge that your opinions about what is true are more "best guess" than absolute truth. 


Edited by Veritas (07/09/08 06:40 PM)


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8613904 - 07/09/08 06:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You need to make your own Mooji videos...  Final answer.  Dahmmnit.:shrug:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8614695 - 07/09/08 10:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:


I seriously want you to get this man, your asking me for objective proof of something which isn't an object! No-one will ever have objective proof of this, you simply cant present an object of this as its the subject!





Subjectivity and objectivity are two words constantly misused.  Any thought can be an intelligible object of the mind; thereby rendering it "objective."  Otherwise we fall into idealism where reality is only ideas and cannot exist outside the mind or solipsism where an external reality may exist, but we may not know it.  Both doctrines are axiomatically reductio ad absurdum.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Are you enlightened? [Re: Chronic7]
    #8616550 - 07/10/08 10:35 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

don't present speculation, i present my experience, speculation is for fools.

Just to inform you, you are speculating on the nature of your experience. I or someone else could have that experience (and many here may have) and would interpret it very differently.

Unless of course you are the creator of all this and don't have a finite understanding and  so knows what all of our experiences mean. And while speculation is not foolish to believe it is absolute truth is.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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