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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4399823 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
"1.yes there was a huge flood in the regions of mezopotamia

2.How can there be any record of garden of eden or anything like that if first man did not develop writing?

3. Romans did mention Jewish false messiahs, they did not name them though, Jesus was one of them, why would he be remembered by romans or named in their texts if they didn't believe in Jewish messiahs?"

None of that justifies calling the Bible confirmed history. And the flood part is pure conjecture by people trying to declare the Bible history.


ok, a book mentiones a flood, and the flood happens around that time, and then your conclusion is that it is coincedence?

What about this..
Newspaper reports a plane crash, and place crashes a few hours before it got out in newspapers. the newspaper didn't actually know about the crash, they made that up, and luckily for them there actually was a plane crash. Does that make any less sense that what you said?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4399846 -

"and the flood happens around that time"
Around what time...details...the Red Sea certainly joined the ocean at some point which "could" have made a large flood. This flood "could" have influenced the creation of the myth....but this does not make the myth history. As far as Eden is concerned, do not let the nonexistance of records stand as proof to it's possible existance.....lack of evidence means NO evidence.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4399858 -

And no evidence means nothing. It just means no evidence


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4399864 -

KingOftheThing said:
i think after reading all this im with ghandi....i like that quote, i like your chirst but not your christians... the christian right makes me violent :wink:


Right on! This is what I assmued you were saying all along.  By the way I agree with you totally here. I grew up in christanity. To this day I don't feel I have ever met one who practices what christ taught. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Icelander]
    #4399872 -

then stop expecting people to be consistant with Jesus, it will be a lot easier to accept christianity. The only reason they don't folow his words is because they can't, the simply are not able.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4399876 -

I spent several years in the " Goverment" of the Church. I no longer get involved with organized churches because it ended up making me very disapointed in the end. Greed has many faces

Jesus is the Lord of my life. Not that he is my king as to " Do as I say " But as to I follow his lead. He is the leader in my life. That is all God wants. For us to learn and live as God himself would as a man. Jesus was that man example. The most well known that is.

Anyway I suggest to you and everyone. Take sometime and read the words of Jesus and try to see the love in his words. I have read a lot of words in this forum. Many blessed people and many educated people have opened my mind and heart to new ideas and beliefe's.

But one thing I see all the time is a quick attempt to bash Jesus based on the men of the world and what they have done to the world.

AS simple as it sounds every question can be answered with another question...... What would Jesus do ?

Now the only way to know what would he do. Is to get to know him. Read the words of Jesus. Bring his words into a place of your mind to be meditated over. Then find ways to promote his ideals into your daily life. Then once you begin to see the fruits of the mind of Jesus in your life. The rest of " Faith " come as natural as the sun on your face. It is not what you must do but, what you learn and what you learn makes you what you are. What you are and what you become dictates how well you hear the spirt of God.


Opps I started a Lesson...... Sorry :-)


Anyway Jesus never taught people to lie steal and cheat. Like so many of the churches do today. He also never taught that men should go to war etc...........

Men will fail you always. By keeping your eyes on the goal you can learn the truth.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4399901 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
then stop expecting people to be consistant with Jesus, it will be a lot easier to accept christianity. The only reason they don't folow his words is because they can't, the simply are not able.


Well I do accept Christanity. What I don't want to be forced into, is living in this country  by their rules. Christanity is being used to oppress people here. And around the world.

This happens with many religions. That's why I personally have no use for them. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Icelander]
    #4399918 -

Icelander said:
OldWoodSpecter said:
then stop expecting people to be consistant with Jesus, it will be a lot easier to accept christianity. The only reason they don't folow his words is because they can't, the simply are not able.


Well I do accept Christanity. What I don't want to be forced into, is living in this country  by their rules. Christanity is being used to oppress people here. And around the world.

This happens with many religions. That's why I personally have no use for them. :mushroom2:


what do you mean? what rules are those?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4399925 -

"the christian right makes me violent"

It is amazing that they have exerted such control over you. The only person that can make me violent is myself.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4399950 -

are you so certain?

If your brain is simply a logical machine that is based on series of causes and effects, then your choice is only an illusion, there are triggers and there are actions.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #4399962 -

What about asking "What would a good person do?"

How do we know that the words in the bible haven't been twisted by the apostles in order to sell the religion?

Quote:
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).


What would Jesus do? Convince himself that he is the most important person on the planet and that the only way for anyone to achieve happiness is to follow him. I'm not sure if megalomania is an admirable trait.


Matthew 10:34-35
Quote:
"34: Think not that I am come to bring peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

"35: For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."



Luke 14:26
Quote:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple


Luke 19:27
Quote:
27: But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4399990 -


ok, a book mentiones a flood, and the flood happens around that time, and then your conclusion is that it is coincedence?

Is "around that time" a period of several years? Several dozen years?

I hear about a large number of floods on the news every year. Showing that a flood happened in a certain area within a relatively large time span doesn't proove anything. In the old days, before they had further developed methods of planning locations for farmland or housing, or created dams to prevent flooding, floods were more likely to cause damage.

I have a theory that there was a huge civilization of intelligent beings that had no bones, and no written language. They built all of their technology and buildings out of soft, biodegradable organic material. How do I know this? I have proof; there is nothing left of them. They kept no written records, and all of their remains decomposed quickly, before they could fossilize. How else could this have happened if my theory were not correct?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: eve69]
    #4399995 -

I read it from beginning to end, and I noticed that about 3/4 down there was a dopey-feeling grin on my face  :grin: I enjoy Buddhist psychology and if there is one thing a long-winded person like myself appreciates, it's someone even more long-winded than I am! :smile: Writers like the one you cited, and posters like me ought to go to Long-Winded Anonymous meetings where you feel good about yourself relative to the others at the meeting. Hey, it's putting the "delusorily valued thought" of another to good use making one feel better about oneself  :laugh:

Thanks for posting!


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Phluck]
    #4400013 -

Phluck said:
What about asking "What would a good person do?"

How do we know that the words in the bible haven't been twisted by the apostles in order to sell the religion?

Quote:
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).


What would Jesus do? Convince himself that he is the most important person on the planet and that the only way for anyone to achieve happiness is to follow him. I'm not sure if megalomania is an admirable trait.


Matthew 10:34-35
Quote:
"34: Think not that I am come to bring peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

"35: For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."



Luke 14:26
Quote:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple


Luke 19:27
Quote:
27: But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.






LOL these are great examples of not understanding what jesus was teaching. If you read the entire chapters you might get a understanding of what he was saying.


First.....To get to God is thru Jesus. That is, Jesus was the example.

Second....Jesus was saying that he did not come here to be idol. He came here to spread the truth by a "sword ofhis tounge. Not a actual sword. To say he will use a sword is to say that he will dowhat ever nesseceryto let us in on the truth. Even his death.


Third..... again jesus was speaking " What ever it takes to find God"
Not.......


Look it is simple really. Jesus taught in many stories and parables. Just as he was not talking about a mustard seeds he was not talking about killing your mother or hating anyone.

The point in all of your quotes is that God and the path to God must be put before all else.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Phluck]
    #4400041 -

Phluck said:

ok, a book mentiones a flood, and the flood happens around that time, and then your conclusion is that it is coincedence?

Is "around that time" a period of several years? Several dozen years?

I hear about a large number of floods on the news every year. Showing that a flood happened in a certain area within a relatively large time span doesn't proove anything. In the old days, before they had further developed methods of planning locations for farmland or housing, or created dams to prevent flooding, floods were more likely to cause damage.

I have a theory that there was a huge civilization of intelligent beings that had no bones, and no written language. They built all of their technology and buildings out of soft, biodegradable organic material. How do I know this? I have proof; there is nothing left of them. They kept no written records, and all of their remains decomposed quickly, before they could fossilize. How else could this have happened if my theory were not correct?


you say it yourself. There were lots of floods, one of the could have influenced the bible


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Phluck]
    #4400055 -

Phluck said:

I have a theory that there was a huge civilization of intelligent beings that had no bones, and no written language. They built all of their technology and buildings out of soft, biodegradable organic material. How do I know this? I have proof; there is nothing left of them. They kept no written records, and all of their remains decomposed quickly, before they could fossilize. How else could this have happened if my theory were not correct?



what are you trying to point out with this little story? WHat does this have to do with what we are talking about?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4400073 -


you say it yourself. There were lots of floods, one of the could have influenced the bible

Oh sure, the flood in the bible may have been loosely based on a real flood. Very loosely.

It's quite likely that the only relation between the flood in the bible and the real flood was that there was some water involved.

As for my little story, it had not particular purpose. I was just thinking of some weird "creation science" type logic and being stoned. It was a non-sequitor.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: Phluck]
    #4400102 -

No... In your quotation:

"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).

This is profoundly metaphysical, not psychologically pathological. "I AM" - the Name of Deity revealed to Moses on Mt. Sinai ["Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" - usually mistranslated "I AM THAT I AM" but more accurately translated "I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE"]. It could have been rendered grammatically: 'I am is the Way..." but in this passage, in the way of a mystic who is identified with BEING, Jesus is NOT speaking of His embodied-ego. He is referring to BEING, the Logos, the Eternal Ground of Being - GOD.

"No one comes to the Father except through me." Again, NOT the 30+ year old carpenter from Nazareth, but the Logos, later called the 'Prolation of the Second Hypostasis of the Trinity,' or 'the Son.' The Logos, not even as defined by Greek philosophical schools, but by Philo of Alexandria, a Hellenized Jewish philosophy of Jesus' time, is the 'aspect' of the Godhead that 'interfaces' with human consciousness. So identified was the consciousness of Jesus with this Divine Consciousness (i.e., Holy Spirit), that in prophetic fashion, Jesus served as the 'Mouthpiece' of the LORD. Aaron, Moses' brother had served similarly for Moses (the greatest prophet) because Moses had a speech impediment. But Jesus' ontological nature was supposed to have surpassed the prophets - even Moses - in that He did not say "thus sayeth the LORD," but spoke 'as if' the LORD were speaking directly!
This was blasphemous, and for blasphemy Jesus was condemned by the Jewish elders.

It was the author John who changed the theology of Jesus from 'a man annointed [Christed] by GOD' to 'GOD clothed in flesh.' This changed radically the ontological nature [nature of Jesus' 'ontos' - being] from essentially human to essentially GOD. Theological arguments continue to this day over whether the nature of Jesus' Divinity is a matter of (1) species or (2) degree. The first choice puts Jesus on a pedestal, magnified by the mythic proportion of a virgin birth, and puts an unbridgeable gulf between Him and us. If Jesus is of a different specie of being, He is forever unique and forever different than us. I used to adhere to this and favor John (because John was the most Cosmic). Now, I return to the 3 Synoptic [Same View] Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, and return Jesus to our humanity as a human who Knew GOD more intimately than the rest of us, but Who taught us how to do likewise by 'Being in Christ' like He was. Y'shua ben Miriam, of Nazareth was 'in Christ' - conscious of Being in the Logos, and the Logos in Him.

Jesus would never had said anything like 'I am GOD.' In fact He was supposed to have said "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God..." (Matt. 19:17 KJV). It only sounds egotistical to our own egos! When our egos are diminished, it just sounds True for Jesus and myself, and all I can do is nod affirmatively and feel extraordinarily humble by the realization. If pride, arrogance, specialness occur, then the realization is not True, it is merely an ego-inflation - meglomania, paranoia, delusions of grandeur - that leads to a massive (sometimes explosive) deflation.

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4400134 -

Holy God Almighty, what a mess of a thread. So long! Anyway, a few quick points:

1) KoTK said, "if you read history, things that can be proved..." Such a view of history imbues it with undue credit. Not only is "proof" elusive and difficult to define for scientists, but anything nearing proof is largley unattainable for historians. Especially when it comes to a text like the Old Testament, which is pretty much the only historical record of the Hebrews at the time. There are mentions of Hebrews in some Egyptian, Babylonian, and other Ancient Near Eastern texts but all in all they are rather sparse.

2) The parent post is so general as to ignore the importance of the "religious experience" for individual men and women. Religion not only does something for man, but occasionally he has a direct and unmediated experience of the divine (which may or may not be largley or entirely independent of whatever religious institution he might be a part of). Institutional religion probably arises out of these ecstatic experiences which tend to become ritualized and stultified; still, the religious experience does something more than what the institutions do, and this feeling that it gives to man is important to him. This point has already been made, but is important enough to be re-iterated because you can't leave the religious experience out of any religious discussion.

3) When it comes archeologically refutable claims about history, science can talk about religion. When it comes to the metaphysical, the theology, science has essentially no say. Likewise, science can't tell you whether a piece of music or a poem is any good. They are entirely different realms. How can you measure the infinite? You can't. And you can't quantify the value of a piece of art. That doesn't make it unreal.

p.s. Maybe it's just me, but when I see insanely long posts that consist entirely of some quoted text or webpage, I tend to skip over them. The information might be worthwhile and even relevant to a discussion, but long quotes throw off the pace of things.


--------------------
\

Edited by mikeytwice (07/13/05 02:49 PM)

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Re: why christianity is bullshit [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4400186 -

This is profoundly metaphysical, not psychologically pathological.

Well, that only makes sense if you're coming from the perspective that Jesus was correct. If you already have faith that Jesus WAS the mouthpiece of God, then it is quite easy to see him as humble.

However, if you have the tendency to approach Jesus' story as though it were someone from your own town, then it seems quite odd that someone would believe that THEY had been chosen as the mouthpiece of God.

It only sounds egotistical to our own egos! When our egos are diminished, it just sounds True for Jesus and myself, and all I can do is nod affirmatively and feel extraordinarily humble by the realization. If pride, arrogance, specialness occur, then the realization is not True, it is merely an ego-inflation - meglomania, paranoia, delusions of grandeur - that leads to a massive (sometimes explosive) deflation.

I don't see how pride or ego have any impact on truth. How can anyone say for certain how Jesus felt? Are we sure that he didn't feel any pride, or is this simply a reflection of the perception people have of Jesus. He is seen as so good and pure that the idea that he could be arrogant seems unrealistic.

Just as Jesus has become a symbol for goodness, ego seems to have become a symbol for bad. People have associated pride and ego with arrogance and nastiness, and thus "revelations" that come amidst these emotions are assumed to be further from truth.

While a "revelation" that is accompanied by pride might be considered less true by someone with a distaste for pride, it would seem to me that this has more to do with a psychological association between pride and wrongness than a real correlation.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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