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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
    #3907961 - 03/12/05 05:34 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MAGnum said:
Romans was written by Paul and although Paul had his strong points, he had his weak ones as well. He wasn't right about everything. The way I look at it, we are the glory of God.





You can pick and choose your nose to your desire... for it is yours.

You can pick and choose your beliefs to your desire... for they are yours...

However, when you do pick and choose to what degree you choose your beliefs in one book.... it's truly hard to tell who exactly is right... unless you all are right... in which case you are all wrong (due to contradiction and a multitude of belief systems based on one book and the interpretation thereof.)

If Paul wasn't right about everything... what makes you think all the others were right about everything? Paul most certainly was right in giving the religion to the world, and breaking the ethnic boundary originally instilled. Without Paul... Christianity most certainly would've died off by now... well at least it wouldn't be so prominant... it would've been among one of the KKK of religions so to speak, in which it is isolated to a group of people, instead of all.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: JCoke]
    #3907998 - 03/12/05 05:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
MAGnum, that some good advice right there..

"If you accept life, you accept God."<--- diffantly, one thing i hate is when people say you need to confess jesus is lord to get into heaven, as in, with words, but going on that standard not many westerers would get in to heaven considering that "Jesus" was not Jesus's name.




:lol: Yeah, His name was Yeshua ben Joseph.

Quote:

the only two laws i have recieved from the reading the bible are 1, love God, and 2, love everyone as you would like to be loved,




May I add Love all things as number 3?


--------------------
Agent 727
7


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OfflineJCoke
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Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
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Last seen: 7 years, 17 days
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
    #3908000 - 03/12/05 05:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
"i never understood why people get confused and wonder why God can kill thousands in the OT, and claim in the new testemant God never kills anyone like that, WE ALL DIE, natural disasters are everywhere, it's like people in florida, year after year another hurricane, they move right back there, and than when the next one comes, they go "oh God have mercy on us! what did we do to deserve this!", please, thats just life.. "

have you ever read the bible? In the old testament god kills THOUSANDS of people at a time just because he wants their land. After he freed the israelites from egypt he promised them canaan, and so they went and commited genocide in the name of god. they had their justifications. But does anything justify killing off an entire race of people because you want their land?

Tell me you think this is ok.




so they were killed and went to heaven, big fucking deal, the idea of life being so precious and sacred is a modern way of thinking, nobody chooses to be alive, we just are, and apparently death, war, genocide, pain and suffering is what we are promised in this life, and suprise suprise, that is what we get...


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineJCoke
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Registered: 02/17/04
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
    #3908008 - 03/12/05 05:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)



May I add Love all things as number 3?

:thumbup:

absolutely.


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: JCoke]
    #3908012 - 03/12/05 05:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
Quote:

fearfect said:
"i never understood why people get confused and wonder why God can kill thousands in the OT, and claim in the new testemant God never kills anyone like that, WE ALL DIE, natural disasters are everywhere, it's like people in florida, year after year another hurricane, they move right back there, and than when the next one comes, they go "oh God have mercy on us! what did we do to deserve this!", please, thats just life.. "

have you ever read the bible?  In the old testament god kills THOUSANDS of people at a time just because he wants their land.  After he freed the israelites from egypt he promised them canaan, and so they went and commited genocide in the name of god.  they had their justifications.  But does anything justify killing off an entire race of people because you want their land?

Tell me you think this is ok.




so they were killed and went to heaven, big fucking deal, the idea of life being so precious and sacred is a modern way of thinking, nobody chooses to be alive, we just are, and apparently death, war, genocide, pain and suffering is what we are promised in this life, and suprise suprise, that is what we get...




God chooses that we are to be alive.... and he allows the Devil to give us the gifts of: war, death, genocide, pain, and suffering.

Remember... God is filled with love!  :heart:  :sun: :heart:

Sorry, I may have already been infected with the rational of the devil.... Please, I beg all of you to "show me the light" and to cast away my evil logic.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
    #3908018 - 03/12/05 05:48 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

How can you go around picking out the points of different religions that you like and casting away the parts you don't like? They come in packages and you either have to accept all of it or none of it. You can't say "Well I think this part is true, but screw the rest of it". What are you basing your decisions on? The only ones who can make claims like this and set the standards are the people who actually (claim) to experience divine intervention. otherwise you have no grounds to decide what is true.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
    #3908021 - 03/12/05 05:49 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You can do that if your a sinner fearfect. :lol:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineMAGnum
veteran

Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3908027 - 03/12/05 05:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
If Paul wasn't right about everything... what makes you think all the others were right about everything? Paul most certainly was right in giving the religion to the world, and breaking the ethnic boundary originally instilled. Without Paul... Christianity most certainly would've died off by now... well at least it wouldn't be so prominant... it would've been among one of the KKK of religions so to speak, in which it is isolated to a group of people, instead of all.




Like I said, Paul had bad as well as good points. While he didn't have a rascist idea of who can have Jesus's teachings, but he also believed that women were less than men. Why should one accept both of those ideas as a whole when only one is good?

It is important for me to ask: "Who made this rule that if I think a phrase in a book is true that I have to accept the whole book?"

Honestly, Christian writing has it's truth as well as the Buddhists, Hindus and even scientists. Much of the time the truth is obscured by a clusterfuck of information. It is very important to properly examine the information and chip away at the lies with questions and Logic. My philosophy is built on love and I look through love to find the truth.


--------------------
Agent 727
7


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OfflineJCoke
dream observer
Male

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 17 days
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3908030 - 03/12/05 05:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:

JCoke said:
Quote:

fearfect said:
"i never understood why people get confused and wonder why God can kill thousands in the OT, and claim in the new testemant God never kills anyone like that, WE ALL DIE, natural disasters are everywhere, it's like people in florida, year after year another hurricane, they move right back there, and than when the next one comes, they go "oh God have mercy on us! what did we do to deserve this!", please, thats just life.. "

have you ever read the bible?  In the old testament god kills THOUSANDS of people at a time just because he wants their land.  After he freed the israelites from egypt he promised them canaan, and so they went and commited genocide in the name of god.  they had their justifications.  But does anything justify killing off an entire race of people because you want their land?

Tell me you think this is ok.




so they were killed and went to heaven, big fucking deal, the idea of life being so precious and sacred is a modern way of thinking, nobody chooses to be alive, we just are, and apparently death, war, genocide, pain and suffering is what we are promised in this life, and suprise suprise, that is what we get...




God chooses that we are to be alive.... and he allows the Devil to give us the gifts of: war, death, genocide, pain, and suffering.

Remember... God is filled with love!  :heart:  :sun: :heart:




:grin:

well, when i said "nobody chooses to be alive", i was thinking more along the lines no human choose's a life for himself, what it's like and where you are in it, that is God's choice, yea..

as for as the devil, God created the devil with full knoledge that he would fuck up mankind, i don't see the diffrence between saying God cause's pain and saying God sent satan to cause pain...

:confused:


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
    #3908031 - 03/12/05 05:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

How do you go about finding which parts are true?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
    #3908035 - 03/12/05 05:54 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

DaVinci Code afaik.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineMAGnum
veteran

Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
    #3908045 - 03/12/05 05:58 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
have you ever read the bible? In the old testament god kills THOUSANDS of people at a time just because he wants their land.

Tell me you think this is ok.




Absolutely not OK. Joshua broke the ten commandments Moses gave the Hebrew people by going to war. Moses's Commandment not to kill was killed. Honestly, think critically about who wrote the Bible. Don't you think Joshua could have been hearing a demon instead of God? What if he never heard God at all? Could Joshua have used God to insight people to war? What if tehre were differant God's that joshua referred to as God? God doesn't kill. People kill you and a Spirit can also kill, although it is not very common.

The one true God is Love. The Bible is a lump of info and the truth must be refined from it.


--------------------
Agent 727
7


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: JCoke]
    #3908050 - 03/12/05 06:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
so they were killed and went to heaven, big fucking deal, the idea of life being so precious and sacred is a modern way of thinking, nobody chooses to be alive, we just are, and apparently death, war, genocide, pain and suffering is what we are promised in this life, and suprise suprise, that is what we get...




no they did not go to heaven. Before jesus came, only the israelites could go to heaven. God sent all these people to burn forever in hell because they were not born as israelites


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: JCoke]
    #3908052 - 03/12/05 06:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
original God? i only know one God, please tell me about this other God?? and i can answer




You have no basis for debate if you are unaware of your own god's transformation throughout history. (Unless of course you have a preference for the one that provides the most ideal situation :shrug:)

Different strokes... for different folks.

Review the old testament, the new testament, and the Kolbrin... 3 sides of the same story, manipulated by man (note: not sure if god was working through man this time around).


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
    #3908054 - 03/12/05 06:01 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MAGnum said:
Quote:

fearfect said:
have you ever read the bible?  In the old testament god kills THOUSANDS of people at a time just because he wants their land.

Tell me you think this is ok.




Absolutely not OK.  Joshua broke the ten commandments Moses gave the Hebrew people by going to war.  Moses's Commandment not to kill was killed.  Honestly, think critically about who wrote the Bible.  Don't you think Joshua could have been hearing a demon instead of God?  What if he never heard God at all?  Could Joshua have used God to insight people to war?  What if tehre were differant God's that joshua referred to as God?  God doesn't kill.  People kill you and a Spirit can also kill, although it is not very common.

The one true God is Love.  The Bible is a lump of info and the truth must be refined from it.




The Lump of Coal that Santa gives you if you've been naughty is the same thing. Just have to find a use for it.  :whatever:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
    #3908057 - 03/12/05 06:03 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

my question remains though. If you discredit parts of the bible because someone may have been hearing a demon instead of god, how can you know when someone is speaking the word of god rather than some demons word? If the bible isn't completely true, how do you know that god is love? How do you know God doesn't kill, did he tell you this, or is this simply what you want to believe?


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OfflineJCoke
dream observer
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Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 17 days
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3908061 - 03/12/05 06:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:

JCoke said:
original God? i only know one God, please tell me about this other God?? and i can answer




You have no basis for debate if you are unaware of your own god's transformation throughout history. (Unless of course you have a preference for the one that provides the most ideal situation :shrug:)

Different strokes... for different folks.

Review the old testament, the new testament, and the Kolbrin... 3 sides of the same story, manipulated by man (note: not sure if god was working through man this time around).




i've read the old and the new, i see the world change, and i see people change through out, but i don't see God change..i don't believe you when you say there are two diffrent God's from the old and the new..


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineJCoke
dream observer
Male

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 17 days
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
    #3908063 - 03/12/05 06:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
Quote:

JCoke said:
so they were killed and went to heaven, big fucking deal, the idea of life being so precious and sacred is a modern way of thinking, nobody chooses to be alive, we just are, and apparently death, war, genocide, pain and suffering is what we are promised in this life, and suprise suprise, that is what we get...




no they did not go to heaven. Before jesus came, only the israelites could go to heaven. God sent all these people to burn forever in hell because they were not born as israelites




they went to hell??

show me a verse..


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: JCoke]
    #3908067 - 03/12/05 06:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:

JCoke said:
original God? i only know one God, please tell me about this other God?? and i can answer




You have no basis for debate if you are unaware of your own god's transformation throughout history. (Unless of course you have a preference for the one that provides the most ideal situation :shrug:)

Different strokes... for different folks.

Review the old testament, the new testament, and the Kolbrin... 3 sides of the same story, manipulated by man (note: not sure if god was working through man this time around).




i've read the old and the new, i see the world change, and i see people change through out, but i don't see God change..i don't believe you when you say there are two diffrent God's from the old and the new..




One is angry...
One is nice... (a touch of vengence)

Of course, we can get into the Mormon belief system if you want... unless that isn't the "truth"

If you are knowledgable about your scripture... you wouldn't be arguing with me  :smirk:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: JCoke]
    #3908070 - 03/12/05 06:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
Quote:

fearfect said:
Quote:

JCoke said:
so they were killed and went to heaven, big fucking deal, the idea of life being so precious and sacred is a modern way of thinking, nobody chooses to be alive, we just are, and apparently death, war, genocide, pain and suffering is what we are promised in this life, and suprise suprise, that is what we get...




no they did not go to heaven.  Before jesus came, only the israelites could go to heaven.  God sent all these people to burn forever in hell because they were not born as israelites




they went to hell??

show me a verse..




Do you need a verse to explain everything? Well... god didn't predict many of the things occuring today beyond abstract generalizations (I can do that as well if you'd like...).

Of course... what God didn't tell you, the DaVinci Code surely will. :lol:

It even talks about Osama! OMG excuse me, I need to repent.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
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