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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3906213 - 03/12/05 11:00 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

PhanTomCat;
you are abusing capitals
my BS detector is beeping noisily

and whatever do you mean by death - it sounds primitive, like a curse


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3906362 - 03/12/05 11:44 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

>>>HONK HONK<<<

:wink:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
    #3906894 - 03/12/05 01:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know if you were attacking me or the religion that I know of. The version of christianity? that I am familiar with is the only one I can actually accept as being at least remotely logical. What I like worse then bible literalists are people who translate the bible however they feel like it; creating their own religion and believing it, spreading it, customized to them. If you are going to believe a religion, you have to at least take the doctrine that defines it and follow that. The christianity that I know is exactly that. The presbyterian branch is very much a literalist branch and they believe that the bible is true in everything it says and use that as a guide, rather then pick and choose what merely fits their whims.

i can't quite follow alot of your arguments as i don't see how they relate directly to mine, but a few stand out. I have not heard of the gospel of mary, but ill assume its something catholic. What I am refering to is protestant christianity. In Romans 3:23, probably one of the most famous verses it states "for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God"

Psalm 51:5 is a very clear statement that we all come into the world as sinners: "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me." Ephesians 2:2 says that all people who are not in Christ are "sons of disobedience."

Genesis 8:21 declares, "...the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth." Jonathon Edwards, in his classic work The Great Christian Doctrine of Original Sin Defended, remarks that on this verse: "The word translated youth, signifies the whole of the former part of the age of man, which commences from the beginning of life. The word in its derivation, has reference to the birth or beginning of existence...so that the word here translated youth, comprehends not only what we in English most commonly call the time of youth, but also childhood and infancy."
last two paragraphs taken from http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/original.html


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3906945 - 03/12/05 02:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The only certainty in life is death. Even with death we dont know where, when or how? Life is like a candle in the wind, eventually all candles will be extinguished. Not a single lifeform on this planet can escape it, death is like a mirror, death brings our life and our priorities into clear view, its a blessing not a curse. Although it can become a curse if we morbidly obsess.

You can belive what you like but you can never know what is going to happen when death comes, you better pack you bags properly in life becuase you have no choice but to catch that train..... :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: egghead1]
    #3906983 - 03/12/05 02:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Why should one prepare for something that one can never be ready for (except possibly after a long illness)?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: egghead1]
    #3907015 - 03/12/05 02:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
look it, it's just as much of a belief to say "i don't believe there is a God" and saying "i do believe there is a God", neither side has yet to be proven..




Please don't mix science and religion if you aren't willing to use scientific reasoning as a basis for verifying existance. I've provided ample evidence of scientific reasoning in regards to the nature of the religion... That is science.

To use the same ol' tired statement provided is not found in scientific reasoning, rather religious misdirection.

.... simply put, don't attempt to argue through the use of science if you aren't willing to evaluate the religion in terms of science.

Beyond that, just as redgreenvines was saying, it is great to be consistantly good. I'm sorry, I just don't see why I should be good for a "raise" from god, for doing the good job. I'll be and am good without a god, I need no mandate from heaven to assure me that I'm being good. It's called uncommon sense. (common sense is far from common)

I tend to look down on people who go on and on about heaven and it's rewards. It's like a hidden fear of theirs that if they aren't good and don't follow the mandate of god to the "T" then they'll tossed into hell. Sorry, I just as well might as you legal laws and a legal stance to motivate people to do good out of fear. Somehow that isn't as applicable as it doesn't affect this existance and supposedly the next.

Anyhow, god knows my intentions, and I know his. We are separated from our views and our reasoning, I don't do evil out of fear, rather do good as it is harder to good then it is to be bad. Life is a challenge, it isn't a mandate.

Would you feel any better if a Man of physical word was suggesting the law of god was his own, and telling you how to live for fear of your existance? No way in hell I'm going to kowtow. (even if the previous position puts me in "hell" as it were)

Quote:

Swami said:
Why should one prepare for something that one can never be ready for (except possibly after a long illness)?




God says so... Do it or go to hell! (feels like Monopoly; you've just landed on the "community chest" of cards by asking that question, each card sends you directly to hell... don't question)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3907047 - 03/12/05 02:22 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

in my quest for meaning i refuse to abandon logic and reason to ease the anxiety of death


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: Swami]
    #3907056 - 03/12/05 02:23 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

We can prepare for it quite easily, If we train in reminding ourselves during our lives that death can come at any moment, we may discover and decide to take care of what is truly essential. Some people who have had near death experiences say that at death you whole life flashes before your eyes, like a life review. It seems to me that by then its a little late :lol: .

We need to pack our bags properly, (living a good life), so that when we die we dint have many regrets and can leave this world with a clean mind, knowing that you've done your best and lived a good and full life, whatever time it comes. We can always change our ways by reflecting on death.

At the time of death, whatever you believe will happen, one thing is certain, if you are not ready for it, its going to be a traumatic experience, if we have many attachments in this life, it is going to be difficult to let go of this world at the exit. So for that we need to train ourselves in non-attachment, this means that we enjoy everything in life while it lasts, but we have to learn also to let go of grasping by reflecting on impermenace. This will help us to let go properly at the time of death, so that we can have a good mind state and die well.

True Unconditional Love is without attachment, We need to die with loving minds...... :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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OfflineQuick Blaze
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3907059 - 03/12/05 02:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

But... You must realize, that the Devil consistantly, and constantly is preying on your every move. The devil himself has many machinations that he uses, as he wants you to join his side, and to shun god. The minute you begin to question Jesus, and God, is the minute the devil begins to prey on your tortured soul.

Do yourself a favor, STOP! You are thinking exactly how the devil wants you to think. You must cast the Devil out from your mind, and not listen to the words of men, for they will lead you astray! Don't question god, and you will live forever!!!






The devil is now working overtime becase he knows his time is coming to an end and he will try to gather as many followers as he can. All he can do is try and " play god" until the time comes and he is casted away into the bottomless pit and the new world will come....cast away the fear of the devil by loving one another which will ultimately destroy him


--------------------
"Life is one BIG road with Lots of signs. So when you riding through the ruts, don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy. Don't bury your thoughts, put your vision to reality "


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
    #3907062 - 03/12/05 02:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
in my quest for meaning i refuse to abandon logic and reason to ease the anxiety of death




You kind of have to fearfect... God is based on Love (as I've read in this post several times). Although, I can swear form the older testaments before god recieved his vengeful god makeover; (think the kindler gentler IRS... Just an image change, they still screw you over.) ah... never mind, I somehow don't believe that this is applicable to this discussion :lol:.

Quote:

Quick Blaze said:
Quote:

But... You must realize, that the Devil consistantly, and constantly is preying on your every move. The devil himself has many machinations that he uses, as he wants you to join his side, and to shun god. The minute you begin to question Jesus, and God, is the minute the devil begins to prey on your tortured soul.

Do yourself a favor, STOP! You are thinking exactly how the devil wants you to think. You must cast the Devil out from your mind, and not listen to the words of men, for they will lead you astray! Don't question god, and you will live forever!!!






The devil is now working overtime becase he knows his time is coming to an end and he will try to gather as many followers as he can. All he can do is try and " play god" until the time comes and he is casted away into the bottomless pit and the new world will come....cast away the fear of the devil by loving one another which will ultimately destroy him




Ermmm sorry, I added the [/roleplays a Christian] to denote the fact that I was being facetious.

Beyond that, look up to the religiousist part... you're essentially suggesting that your religion has an inherent superiority and all the non-believers are SOL for not believing in your god. A form of a rather totalitarian (re: fascist) god if you ask me. I'd much prefer a democratic god that doesn't cast me into hell by fearing me to believe in the one "true god" as a mandate by those in charge of disseminating and interpreting that belief.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/12/05 02:37 PM)


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3907084 - 03/12/05 02:30 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

it is really facinating; the old testament god vs the new testament god. after the flood god vowed to never destroy everything again like that. he killed everyone save noah's family. all throughout the old testament, god is wiping out entire civilizations for his "chosen people". He decides that the land that his people are to have belong to some other group of people so he juts wipes them all out. He had no emotion for the people outside his chosen. Then all of a sudden, in the new testament, god loves everyone and wants everyone to be happy, not just the isrealites anymore.

im really sick of this discussion now. im out. peace.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
    #3907129 - 03/12/05 02:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3907607 - 03/12/05 04:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:

JCoke said:
look it, it's just as much of a belief to say "i don't believe there is a God" and saying "i do believe there is a God", neither side has yet to be proven..




Please don't mix science and religion if you aren't willing to use scientific reasoning as a basis for verifying existance. I've provided ample evidence of scientific reasoning in regards to the nature of the religion... That is science.

belief in science IS just as stronge as a belief in God to me, you believe science because you see the results of the action, it's the same with God for me, you might want to read the book "evidence that demands a verdict" if you want Jesus to be a real historical figure, you can believe it, or you can deny it, but it's still just a belief no matter what side you see it from.

I tend to look down on people who go on and on about heaven and it's rewards. It's like a hidden fear of theirs that if they aren't good and don't follow the mandate of god to the "T" then they'll tossed into hell. Sorry, I just as well might as you legal laws and a legal stance to motivate people to do good out of fear. Somehow that isn't as applicable as it doesn't affect this existance and supposedly the next.

the only two laws i have recieved from the reading the bible are 1, love God, and 2, love everyone as you would like to be loved, i don't know the christians you met, but i for one live in comfort and peace, no fear of hell or damnation or any of that stuff, i fear God in the same way i would fear my wife, I fear if I cheat on her, lie to her, treat her less than i would like to be treated etc etc,, it would hurt our relationship, if that's fear, than yes i do fear God... all the laws in the bible are there for our benefit, not for us to benefit the law, i have met and argued with christians who still seem to have this mind set, instulled by lazy parents and pastors, that we have to obey everything the bible says word for word, Jesus taught the we need the heart of the law, not the word of the law at face value..

Would you feel any better if a Man of physical word was suggesting the law of god was his own, and telling you how to live for fear of your existance? No way in hell I'm going to kowtow. (even if the previous position puts me in "hell" as it were)

if that man came to judge it, i would hate it, if that man came to save me from the world, with wisdom and miracles, who could possibly have a problem with that??


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
    #3907635 - 03/12/05 04:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
it is really facinating; the old testament god vs the new testament god. after the flood god vowed to never destroy everything again like that. he killed everyone save noah's family. all throughout the old testament, god is wiping out entire civilizations for his "chosen people". He decides that the land that his people are to have belong to some other group of people so he juts wipes them all out. He had no emotion for the people outside his chosen. Then all of a sudden, in the new testament, god loves everyone and wants everyone to be happy, not just the isrealites anymore.

im really sick of this discussion now. im out. peace.




we all die, does it really matter if we die in groups??

i never understood why people get confused and wonder why God can kill thousands in the OT, and claim in the new testemant God never kills anyone like that, WE ALL DIE, natural disasters are everywhere, it's like people in florida, year after year another hurricane, they move right back there, and than when the next one comes, they go "oh God have mercy on us! what did we do to deserve this!", please, thats just life..


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" *DELETED* [Re: MAGnum]
    #3907698 - 03/12/05 04:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by JCoke

Reason for deletion: fart out the mouth



--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: JCoke]
    #3907878 - 03/12/05 05:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JCoke said:
look it, it's just as much of a belief to say "i don't believe there is a God" and saying "i do believe there is a God", neither side has yet to be proven..

belief in science IS just as stronge as a belief in God to me, you believe science because you see the results of the action, it's the same with God for me, you might want to read the book "evidence that demands a verdict" if you want Jesus to be a real historical figure, you can believe it, or you can deny it, but it's still just a belief no matter what side you see it from.


the only two laws i have recieved from the reading the bible are 1, love God, and 2, love everyone as you would like to be loved, i don't know the christians you met, but i for one live in comfort and peace, no fear of hell or damnation or any of that stuff, i fear God in the same way i would fear my wife, I fear if I cheat on her, lie to her, treat her less than i would like to be treated etc etc,, it would hurt our relationship, if that's fear, than yes i do fear God... all the laws in the bible are there for our benefit, not for us to benefit the law, i have met and argued with christians who still seem to have this mind set, instulled by lazy parents and pastors, that we have to obey everything the bible says word for word, Jesus taught the we need the heart of the law, not the word of the law at face value..

if that man came to judge it, i would hate it, if that man came to save me from the world, with wisdom and miracles, who could possibly have a problem with that??




Please, do yourself a favor and review the links I posted. It has nothing to do with one's belief in god, nor their disbelief. It's a testament of science versus hearsay.

Furthermore, just as I posted in the previous thread dealing with this, I present you another example of Jesus:

Their was a man alive in 1867, he died in 1905, their was much written after his life, and all of his miracles... Yet for some very ODD reason, no mention of his miracles (and they were great miracles that would have been mentioned) have been recorded during the period he lived. However, much was written after his life that "proves" he existed......

See what I'm getting at? I can make up something as well, if your going to attempt to rationalize with me about belief and the basis of it, then please attempt to base it on factual evidence, as I've provided plenty.

Hearsay, conjecture.... is just that, and is only that. Misdirection and pointing out common sayings are not sufficient grounds for a debate, the facts speak for themselves... Sorry I can't believe in the man that existed in 1867-1905 because their is no proof other then conjecture created by those perpetuating the belief. If you want however, I can provide new evidence as I "find" it about his miracles and teachings.

Please, Clarify which "god" you are talking about as well. Are we speaking of the vengeful, wrathful "original" god who was isolated to a "choosen people"? Or are we speaking of the god that got his makeover as his previous meme wasn't fit to take over the world?

I ask because; both gods, simply cannot coexist together, although... for some "reason" they are one in the same... Unless for some reason it was "translated" improperly, and now we have the original meaning... which I highly doubt.

Man has come to Judge it... I'm a man and I am judging it. Look to history, see what "God" has allowed in his name, and what has been justified through god's vessels (those in control of religious documents, as well as interpretation). I give you the miracle of thinking for yourself, and the wisdom to know what you believe and how it was formed.

I Appreciate your response.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/12/05 05:17 PM)


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OfflineJCoke
dream observer
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3907926 - 03/12/05 05:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Please, do yourself a favor and review the links I posted. It has nothing to do with one's belief in god, nor their disbelief. It's a testament of science versus hearsay.

Furthermore, just as I posted in the previous thread dealing with this, I present you another example of Jesus:

Their was a man alive in 1867, he died in 1905, their was much written after his life, and all of his miracles... Yet for some very ODD reason, no mention of his miracles (and they were great miracles that would have been mentioned) have been recorded during the period he lived. However, much was written after his life that "proves" he existed......

See what I'm getting at? I can make up something as well, if your going to attempt to rationalize with me about belief and the basis of it, then please attempt to base it on factual evidence, as I've provided plenty.

Hearsay, conjecture.... is just that, and is only that. Misdirection and pointing out common sayings are not sufficient grounds for a debate, the facts speak for themselves... Sorry I can't believe in the man that existed in 1867-1905 because their is no proof other then conjecture created by those perpetuating the belief. If you want however, I can provide new evidence as I "find" it about his miracles and teachings.

i've read the though your link, nothing interesting really, does'nt matter to me really, God proved himself to me in my life, my argument was never that Jesus was real ot not, that wa your argument, i tell you i myself beleive in God because what happend in my life, not because the Bible..for example, it i was born, and left from birth on a deserted island, no bible, never learned to talk, but God showed himself to me, i would be the same person i am now...also, by your standards, posting a link that says Jesus is'nt real is just as much hearsay from you as the gospels writtin about Jesus, i fail to see the diffrence..

Please, Clarify which "god" you are talking about as well. Are we speaking of the vengeful, wrathful "original" god who was isolated to a "choosen people"? Or are we speaking of the god that got his makeover as his previous meme wasn't fit to take over the world?

I ask because; both gods, simply cannot coexist together, although... for some "reason" they are one in the same... Unless for some reason it was "translated" improperly, and now we have the original meaning... which I highly doubt.

I Appreciate your response.

original God? i only know one God, please tell me about this other God?? and i can answer


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
    #3907934 - 03/12/05 05:26 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
I don't know if you were attacking me or the religion that I know of. The version of christianity? that I am familiar with is the only one I can actually accept as being at least remotely logical.




I'm agreeing with you, the religion you descibed is simply no longer God's religion. The stuff you wrote about made me think of very important points.

Quote:

What I like worse then bible literalists are people who translate the bible however they feel like it; creating their own religion and believing it, spreading it, customized to them. If you are going to believe a religion, you have to at least take the doctrine that defines it and follow that.




Did Jesus not do exactly as you say in the first sentance? In which religion and where is it actually said that you cant do what you talked about in the second sentance? Religion is meant to free people and it should evolve to get better. However, it is sad that religion can be harnessed to control and has evolved to become bad.

Honestly, why do you have to join a religion? Can I not simply enjoy the bits of truth in every religion?

Quote:

The christianity that I know is exactly that. The presbyterian branch is very much a literalist branch and they believe that the bible is true in everything it says and use that as a guide, rather then pick and choose what merely fits their whims.




Well, my friend, the reason it is bad to be that way is because there were many false prophets or simply prophets that thought they knew, but didn't. The whole Bible throughout history has been spliced and changed to meet people's whims, so the presbyterians are simply still following a collection of individual's whims.




Quote:

I have not heard of the gospel of mary, but ill assume its something catholic.




It is actually the Gospel of Mary Magdala (Magdoline wasn't the name, Magdala was). It is clear from much evidance that Jesus had a very special relationship with this woman and possibly was married and had children by her. You should look her up.

Quote:

What I am refering to is protestant christianity.




I only know a little about catholisism.

Quote:

In Romans 3:23, probably one of the most famous verses it states "for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God"




Romans was written by Paul and although Paul had his strong points, he had his weak ones as well. He wasn't right about everything. The way I look at it, we are the glory of God.

Quote:

Psalm 51:5 is a very clear statement that we all come into the world as sinners: "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me."




I don't agree with that simply because I have never met a baby who acts on evil. Sure, you can be raised in a world that sins to commit a sin. But out of all honesty, you aren't born a sinner (one who acts on the basis of evil); you are simply capable of it.

Quote:

Ephesians 2:2 says that all people who are not in Christ are "sons of disobedience."




It actaully doesn't say that, but you could have a typo there. My question to that is: "Disobediance against who?" Like I said, Paul had good points and bad ones. In the bephesians chapter 2, it also says we are born sinners. Again, I have to disagree with the scripture.

Paul enjoyed writing and spreading what he had learned. There are things we can learn from Paul because he did teach some truth, but all writings must be read with a critical eye.

Quote:

Genesis 8:21 declares, "...the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth."




There was some Confuscian writing that I liked alot that said that the nature of man is primarily good. The truth is in all the religions, my friend, some of it is outside religions; the truth is that you have to hammer and chisle away at the chunk of information to get the truth out.

I'm not attacking anything really, simply saying what has to be said. Honestly, we could spit verses and logic at each other or we could learn. You should look into the Apocryphilia.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/christianity/apocrypha/


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Edited by MAGnum (03/12/05 05:27 PM)


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OfflineMAGnum
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Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3907939 - 03/12/05 05:28 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You like that huh?  I am glad that it rings true in your ears :smile:

Much love to ya!  :heart:


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: JCoke]
    #3907950 - 03/12/05 05:31 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"i never understood why people get confused and wonder why God can kill thousands in the OT, and claim in the new testemant God never kills anyone like that, WE ALL DIE, natural disasters are everywhere, it's like people in florida, year after year another hurricane, they move right back there, and than when the next one comes, they go "oh God have mercy on us! what did we do to deserve this!", please, thats just life.. "

have you ever read the bible? In the old testament god kills THOUSANDS of people at a time just because he wants their land. After he freed the israelites from egypt he promised them canaan, and so they went and commited genocide in the name of god. they had their justifications. But does anything justify killing off an entire race of people because you want their land?

Tell me you think this is ok.


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