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 MAGnum
veteran
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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 Re: Christianity and "salvation"  [Re: fearfect]
#3908204 - 03/12/05 04:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fearfect said:
how do you base what you believe on an emotion? If it makes you feel good does that make it true?
To Love is to will into exsistance. It is an inspiration to many emotions. You aren't trying to say that Love isn't real, are you? That people don't really will will things into exsistance?
Quote:
I may differ from you greatly in my understanding of how things work, but from what i have found is that believing something to be true, does not make it true. if you have had no divine intervention, then everything that you believe in involving god stems from either someone else's divine intervention, or something that you have just made up because it suits your needs.
My eyes are open to much of the spiritual realm. I have had divine "intervention" in my life.
Quote:
Who is to say that god is really all about love? Why could god not be all about hate? Why could he not in actuality enjoy slaughtering people?
I am to say it because of what I wrote in my previous post.
God can't be hate because hate is to will into non exsistance And non exsistance cannot happen within exsistance.
Now why would God have to do something as futile as to kill to enjoy exsistance? God is God and doesn't have want or desire. Also, we are all a part of God, so why would God enjoy hurting Godself through hurting people? It's like stabbing yourself and saying it feels good - It doesn't make sence.
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Agent 727
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MAGnum
veteran
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
Serial killers "LOVE" to kill!!
God is Love.
If to Love is to will into exsistance, then it wouldn't be total love to kill someone in the first place because the very act of killing is to try to bring out of exsistance. To love to kill is to have a dicotomy. It doesn't workout in reality as Love.
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Agent 727
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JCoke
dream observer
Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland 
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Church + God = religion... I have no problem with either. I do however have issues with people being so stuck in their views and not being open minded. BTW... this all comes down to whether Jesus did in fact exist... which of course... I hate to admit... requires FAITH, as nothing of a scientific nature correlates his existance.
So I ask you, as a man of FAITH (or a women, don't know your gender) to have faith in those links I provided... and have FAITH in objective analysis, as I've nothing to gain by suggesting that god is a control mechanism by the people. I'll be demonized, called a sinner, ridiculed, etc.... those that keep you in your train of thought will gain $, prominance, more supporters, more power, more influence, etc...
I've got a problem with people refuting evidence with me, when I've provided plenty of info which suggests their belief is a fallacy.
Feel free to keep it if it serves you. Their are so many different forms of Christianity, and for one to assert a higher truth of one verses another... is rather backasswards, as they all do that. It's like finding a needle in a haystack, only their is no needle  .
fair enough, but like i said earlier, i believe from what i've experianced, not from what i read or have been told, in fact, what i've been told is what kept me seperated from God, i trap in the church's mind set of who and what God is, what your describing is called "blind faith" and people using blind faith to rob them, by that i agree with what your doing, in fact, i hope jesus is just a myth, and i want you to tell everyone what you know, God is much much better when you experiance him first hand...keep up the good work  
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hello, your name is life on earth
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"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.
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 fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908223 - 03/12/05 04:47 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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im sorry, i really don't follow what you are talking about. are you saying that when you hate, you are making things not exist? What does that mean?? What exactly are you "willing into existence"?
"God is God and doesn't have want or desire."
did he tell you this?
"Also, we are all a part of God, so why would God enjoy hurting Godself through hurting people?"
did he tell you this too?
How do you know these things are true? Don't tell me you just "know".
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MAGnum
veteran
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:
MAGnum said:
Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:
MAGnum said:
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fearfect said:
have you ever read the bible? In the old testament god kills THOUSANDS of people at a time just because he wants their land.
Tell me you think this is ok.
Absolutely not OK. Joshua broke the ten commandments Moses gave the Hebrew people by going to war. Moses's Commandment not to kill was killed. Honestly, think critically about who wrote the Bible. Don't you think Joshua could have been hearing a demon instead of God? What if he never heard God at all? Could Joshua have used God to insight people to war? What if tehre were differant God's that joshua referred to as God? God doesn't kill. People kill you and a Spirit can also kill, although it is not very common.
The one true God is Love. The Bible is a lump of info and the truth must be refined from it.
The Lump of Coal that Santa gives you if you've been naughty is the same thing. Just have to find a use for it. 
A heap of coal would be an excellant gift to someone who is cold. Again I say, do not let religion and the world man has created ruin God for you.
You missed the point.
If I want to play around with a crossword puzzle... I will, If I want a riddle... I'll seek one. If I want a belief system about how I'm to live my life... I don't expect to have to decipher it, nor to have others decipher it for me.
Imagine as far as you say our whole legal system was implemented in that manner... "Mysterious ways" indeed.
Sorry... I don't need an external force to pep me up. I liken myself to the way a football team works.. in conjunction... and god is a chearleader. I've got enough "spirit" in me, and a belief in god won't help 
And what I say to that is that the spirit within you is God as well.
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Agent 727
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908235 - 03/12/05 04:50 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MAGnum said:
Quote:
fearfect said:
how do you base what you believe on an emotion? If it makes you feel good does that make it true?
To Love is to will into exsistance. It is an inspiration to many emotions. You aren't trying to say that Love isn't real, are you? That people don't really will will things into exsistance?
Quote:
I may differ from you greatly in my understanding of how things work, but from what i have found is that believing something to be true, does not make it true. if you have had no divine intervention, then everything that you believe in involving god stems from either someone else's divine intervention, or something that you have just made up because it suits your needs.
My eyes are open to much of the spiritual realm. I have had divine "intervention" in my life.
Quote:
Who is to say that god is really all about love? Why could god not be all about hate? Why could he not in actuality enjoy slaughtering people?
I am to say it because of what I wrote in my previous post.
God can't be hate because hate is to will into non exsistance And non exsistance cannot happen within exsistance.
Now why would God have to do something as futile as to kill to enjoy exsistance? God is God and doesn't have want or desire. Also, we are all a part of God, so why would God enjoy hurting Godself through hurting people? It's like stabbing yourself and saying it feels good - It doesn't make sence.
Well;
God condemns the sinners, god hates them, else he wouldn't let them go to hell. Unless that's like putting someone in the corner... but somehow with all the controversy, I doubt that.
God tore the shit out of that one city (Sodom and Gomora sp?)... guess he just wasn't happy with them... Please help me out, if this isn't hatred then tell me what is.
Or does he have to do that? He has to do NOTHING... he is what determines everything by way of what that ol' good book says... So, he wants to do it... sounds like a desire to me, and a very intense desire at that.
God also wants you to believe in him, and wants you to bring him gold (verses in this post)... want is a form of desire. Come back to me when you're done contradicting yourself.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/12/05 04:55 PM)
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908248 - 03/12/05 04:52 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MAGnum said:
Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:
MAGnum said:
Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:
MAGnum said:
Quote:
fearfect said:
have you ever read the bible? In the old testament god kills THOUSANDS of people at a time just because he wants their land.
Tell me you think this is ok.
Absolutely not OK. Joshua broke the ten commandments Moses gave the Hebrew people by going to war. Moses's Commandment not to kill was killed. Honestly, think critically about who wrote the Bible. Don't you think Joshua could have been hearing a demon instead of God? What if he never heard God at all? Could Joshua have used God to insight people to war? What if tehre were differant God's that joshua referred to as God? God doesn't kill. People kill you and a Spirit can also kill, although it is not very common.
The one true God is Love. The Bible is a lump of info and the truth must be refined from it.
The Lump of Coal that Santa gives you if you've been naughty is the same thing. Just have to find a use for it.
A heap of coal would be an excellant gift to someone who is cold. Again I say, do not let religion and the world man has created ruin God for you.
You missed the point.
If I want to play around with a crossword puzzle... I will, If I want a riddle... I'll seek one. If I want a belief system about how I'm to live my life... I don't expect to have to decipher it, nor to have others decipher it for me.
Imagine as far as you say our whole legal system was implemented in that manner... "Mysterious ways" indeed.
Sorry... I don't need an external force to pep me up. I liken myself to the way a football team works.. in conjunction... and god is a chearleader. I've got enough "spirit" in me, and a belief in god won't help
And what I say to that is that the spirit within you is God as well.
Wrong! I've absolved myself from anything in nature regarding "divine influence"... I envy you, really I do, I wish I could go back to the land of milk and honey and believe and to think like that.... but something happened to me when I was younger... I grew up.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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MAGnum
veteran
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
#3908272 - 03/12/05 04:59 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fearfect said:
im sorry, i really don't follow what you are talking about. are you saying that when you hate, you are making things not exist? What does that mean?? What exactly are you "willing into existence"?
Is hate not to have a feeling where you wish something to not exsist?
Quote:
Quote:
"God is God and doesn't have want or desire."
did he tell you this?
No. Why would something that has everything want anything?
Quote:
Quote:
"Also, we are all a part of God, so why would God enjoy hurting Godself through hurting people?"
did he tell you this too?
Would you saw off your own arm and enjoy it?
Quote:
How do you know these things are true? Don't tell me you just "know".
It is quite obvious to me. Have I not explained everything I have been asked?
No matter what I say to you, you will probably keep asking me questions and this is important to do, but do you care to ask yourself questions as well?
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Agent 727
7
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908308 - 03/12/05 05:05 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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I ask questions to inspire thought. I'm of my opinion (obviously). Care to respond to God's desires?
Refutation is only good to the point that a clear definitive understanding is achieved.
I don't speak for fearfect, but I do believe this is the point that he is attempting to achieve as well.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908309 - 03/12/05 05:06 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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i think it was you who referenced Job.
if god is part of us and we are part of him, why would he allow us to suffer then? Why did he put Job through so much shit. Wouldn't that be like god cutting off his own arm?
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
#3908316 - 03/12/05 05:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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"No. Why would something that has everything want anything?"
does your god not "want" our love?
I am also trying to get you to question your own beliefs. I have been trying to get you to get to the bottom of why you believe what you believe by asking you what foundation you base your beliefs. It appears that you base your beliefs on Love and that you attribute "good" with "Love". These are two extremely subjective issues and personally I would never use them as a crutch to justify my belief system.
Edited by fearfect (03/12/05 05:11 PM)
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MAGnum
veteran
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
Well;
God condemns the sinners, god hates them, else he wouldn't let them go to hell. Unless that's like putting someone in the corner... but somehow with all the controversy, I doubt that.
May I ask you to let go of the old bounderies that have been given to you about God? A God who condemns is a false God, simply put. What I say is that God is exsistance itself and easy to understand because God is all around you and within you.
Quote:
God tore the shit out of that one city (Sodom and Gomora sp?)... guess he just wasn't happy with them... Please help me out, if this isn't hatred then tell me what is.
People may have thought that it was God who destroyed that city, but what if it simply became the site of a meteor shower or volcanic activity? What if it was some other spirit? Perhaps someone unlocked some sort of long lost technology and blew the city to bits? It could have been anything, but it was not God. The story is so ancient that we don't really know what happenned.
Quote:
Or does he have to do that? He has to do NOTHING... he is what determines everything by way of what that ol' good book says... So, he wants to do it... sounds like a desire to me, and a very intense desire at that.
Perhaps exsistance is not a desire, but a need.what if God never wished anything into exsistance, but simply needed everything into exsistance?
God also wants you to believe in him, and wants you to bring him gold (verses in this post)... want is a form of desire. Come back to me when you're done contradicting yourself.
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Agent 727
7
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908337 - 03/12/05 05:12 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well... as long as we are speaking of possibilities...
Perhaps you should look to logic, and stop preying on illusions which attempt to explain everything through such simplistic terms.
A need is a desire btw...
You can dig a hole however deep you like in fantasy and delusions. I'm just trying to uncover you.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908341 - 03/12/05 05:13 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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"but it was not God. The story is so ancient that we don't really know what happenned. "
so then how do you know it was not god? I'm not trying to nit pick everything you say, I just want you to realize the contradictions.
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MAGnum
veteran
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
#3908347 - 03/12/05 05:13 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fearfect said:
"No. Why would something that has everything want anything?"
does your god not "want" our love?
If you have no love for anything, including the self, you would surely wither away and die quite quickly. I mean, you would have to be so loveless that you couldn't will your arm to move. Remember that to love is to will into exsistance and to move is to will movement into exsistance.
Because we at least minutely love, we automatically love God because God is everything.
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Agent 727
7
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908385 - 03/12/05 05:18 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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what if i were to tell you that love is merely a chemical reaction in the brain, specifically the "hypothalamus" or reptilian part. Scientists have been able to inflict various emotions in animals by stimulating nerves in this part of the brain. no matter how much you glorify it, love is nothing more then a chemical reaction.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908386 - 03/12/05 05:18 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Magnum... please espouse the full degree of you beliefs, be completely and utterly clear.
I've lost sight of candyland a while ago, you're going to need to redirect me.
Include your full definition of love please, including tough love, because I believe that God slaughtering all the peoples that he has said to have slauthered by word of the good book was a form of tough love. That's about as far into candyland as I'll attempt to venture.
Please define your "version" of love and the constant it has on the world, and how god's love isn't, nor has it been throughout time been enough to save mankind... until he and Jesus allow most of mankind to perish for the ones that he "LOVES" the most.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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MAGnum
veteran
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: fearfect]
#3908424 - 03/12/05 05:26 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fearfect said:
i think it was you who referenced Job.
if god is part of us and we are part of him, why would he allow us to suffer then? Why did he put Job through so much shit. Wouldn't that be like god cutting off his own arm?
Suffering comes from within and is a choice we enter into. You may feel pain, but do suffer it? Now, the book of Job is possibly the oldest book in the Bible. It has been said to predate the books of Moses. Whether or not Job exsisted is one question, some theorize that Job was simply a mythical figure. The truth is lost in time. Either way, it was not God who tormented Job, but Satan.
I'm pretty tired so I am not even going to write the rest.
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Agent 727
7
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3908433 - 03/12/05 05:27 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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But God who allowed it... anybody like Chess?
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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MAGnum
veteran
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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My website has alot for you, it is the first link under my sig.
I'm really tired though, so I am going to get a snack.
Good Night.
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Agent 727
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