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 Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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 Re: Christianity and "salvation"  [Re: MAGnum]
#3908465 - 03/12/05 05:33 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Have a goodnight.
I gave it a look through and it made as much sense to me as a Van Gogh does to a blindman.
If you have no set beliefs, you're just picking and choosing beliefs that support your liking. Your version of the beast is mere fantasy, and what is alluded to is contrived as far as I can tell. As it has no other basis then what you want to believe. You're more then entitled to your beliefs; but please don't argue one god If you are using multiple stances of him and incorporating your own philosophy, as the deviation is rather senseless.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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 PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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 Belief in Jesus Christ our Lord GOD to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: Quick Blaze]
#3909356 - 03/12/05 09:16 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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OOoooops...!
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I'll be your midnight French Fry.... 
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
Edited by PhanTomCat (03/12/05 09:17 PM)
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
http://www.nobeliefs.com
Excellent site!
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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Why does this "struggle" seem to be so intense tonight....? Is the end near....? 
In case it is, My love goes out to all that will feel it...
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I'll be your midnight French Fry....
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst
Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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You can't see gravity either ,but you can prove it's existance.
My main question is "Does god realize that, using the brain and rationale that he allegedly gave us, it's impossible for me to belive in him and thus, be saved?
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3909419 - 03/12/05 09:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why does this "struggle" seem to be so intense tonight....?
Perhaps that's why there's a thread called "Flow vs Effort"..
-Twilight Zone music-
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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: PhanTomCat]
#3909748 - 03/12/05 11:04 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PhanTomCat said:
Why does this "struggle" seem to be so intense tonight....? Is the end near....?
In case it is, My love goes out to all that will feel it...
I'll feel it, and will continue to feel it... provided it isn't akin to god's love... as we've covered what "love" that strong can do  .
The end is always near... as is the begining.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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MAGnum
veteran
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
Have a goodnight.
I gave it a look through and it made as much sense to me as a Van Gogh does to a blindman.
If you have no set beliefs, you're just picking and choosing beliefs that support your liking.
Good mornin'
The site is not full built yet and I have been busy working. I'll eventually finish it. I'm thinking of scrapping most of it and fixing it. There are actually plenty of Logical set beliefs there and I don't choose them according to "liking" but according to how it is. Like I said, the truth is out there and burried in a huge lumps of information, one must truly take all the lumps, refine the truth from them and connect them together from several sources. If science didn't have multiple sources of information like you say I shouldn't, would that make sence?
Quote:
Your version of the beast is mere fantasy, and what is alluded to is contrived as far as I can tell.
I have had several visions. I suggest you read up on the Hopi prophecies who prophecied the swaztika (thier symbol of migration) being used as a symbol of war. And no, it is not reversed, it is the exact same symbol.
Quote:
As it has no other basis then what you want to believe.
Actually, the 666 means 6 for Globe, 6 for kingdom and 6 for unverse. Three symbols of divinity. Notice in the Bible, the book is writing directly to "He who has understanding."
Quote:
You're more then entitled to your beliefs; but please don't argue one god If you are using multiple stances of him and incorporating your own philosophy, as the deviation is rather senseless.
As I am free, you are free.
But, that makes no sence, my friend. In hinduism, I believe it is written that all of the Gods are reflections of the one true God. Also, Hinduism teaches that other, outside beliefs can be learned from. Again, if one wants to learn about something, one goes to as many sources as possible collecting information and deliberating it on thier own as I do. Not everything I believe in is written down and it is all rather scatterred on the website.
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Agent 727
7
Edited by MAGnum (03/13/05 10:10 AM)
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3911083 - 03/13/05 11:11 AM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Soopax wrote:
"I have a question that I'd like to direct mainly to people who call themselves "Christian",..."
"If I can't accept Jesus as my "savior", or even the existence of God, due to the lack of any scientific proof of such, and I don't think that anything would cause me to accept them without real concrete proof, is it possible for me to get to heaven?"
The notion that the act of believing secures salvation is not according to the scriptures. No human action can be the basis of salvation, not even the act of believing. The best religious works of man are an abomination to a thrice Holy God who demands perfection in all points. If the act of faith were a condition to salvation, then it must be performed without error and be done perfectly at all times. This is not to imply that salvation can happen without faith, all (without exception) who are truly saved do believe. However the faith is a sovereign gift, and is the evidence of the salvation that has been freely given. To some it has been given, to most it has not been revealed, this is in accordance to the ordination of God who works all things after the council of His own will.
"One of the things I'm thinking, lets say that I knew that I was going to die in the immediate future. My mind might, in a fear reaction, begin to wonder about the after-life and decide that maybe I should just 'think' to my self "OK, I believe in God and Jesus, hes my savior". But God would certainly know that I didn't really believe it. So how does a person who is so science-minded accept the unprovable?"
A man must be born from above before he can understand or believe any spiritual truth, otherwise it is foolishness and a fairy tale to him. Just as a person doesn't will himself to be born the first time, neither does a man will himself to be born in the new spiritual birth. This is the work of God, that the Holy Spirit come to His people and convince them of sin, righteousness and judgment, and convert them and teach them the truth. I was a science minded person, a complete agnostic, yet despite my hard heart, He decided to give me every spiritual blessing in Christ. I would advise that you keep searching, and read the scriptures, and perhaps He might be pleased to grant to you the new heart, and the faith, and the joy of salvation.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: MAGnum]
#3912026 - 03/13/05 03:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MAGnum said:
Quote:
Psychoactive1984 said:
Have a goodnight.
I gave it a look through and it made as much sense to me as a Van Gogh does to a blindman.
If you have no set beliefs, you're just picking and choosing beliefs that support your liking.
Good mornin'
The site is not full built yet and I have been busy working. I'll eventually finish it. I'm thinking of scrapping most of it and fixing it. There are actually plenty of Logical set beliefs there and I don't choose them according to "liking" but according to how it is. Like I said, the truth is out there and burried in a huge lumps of information, one must truly take all the lumps, refine the truth from them and connect them together from several sources. If science didn't have multiple sources of information like you say I shouldn't, would that make sence?
I've provided you with true scientific means of evaluation... yet for some reason you don't seem to give them the time of day. Sorry, science isn't one sided, it doesn't always work to your benefit... unless of course you've learned some archaic form that is unknown to me. The truth should be self evident in one volume, if you need outside sourcing, then the bible isn't sufficient enough to explain itself, in which case interpret it however you please; inasmuchas a student requires a Teacher to make sense of the knowledge... so to does the bible according to your belief need outside help... hence it's not proficient to the degree that it should be recognized as a teaching manual as it were.
Quote:
Your version of the beast is mere fantasy, and what is alluded to is contrived as far as I can tell.
I have had several visions. I suggest you read up on the Hopi prophecies who prophecied the swaztika (thier symbol of migration) being used as a symbol of war. And no, it is not reversed, it is the exact same symbol.
STOP! You do not know how to explain yourself. I suggest you get a dictionary and review the meaning of contrived. The underlined passage is enough to show me that... it is indeed contrived. I can have visions of a galactic cake spawning the solar system... and assert it's truth and correlate any religious document by way of my interpretation... nonetheless the galactic cake is contrived.
Quote:
As it has no other basis then what you want to believe.
Actually, the 666 means 6 for Globe, 6 for kingdom and 6 for unverse. Three symbols of divinity. Notice in the Bible, the book is writing directly to "He who has understanding."
Well, accordingly you do not have understanding unfortuanetly. Beyond that... no, the bible doesn't say that, provide me versus with explicit references. The number is one of man. I can give so many variations on the meaning of the number, I can give you a name with 3 p's at the end which would in fact be a number of man. As for instance with chemistry their are shells s, p, d, and f. Look it up, you'll see what I'm getting at. I can abstract the notion to the nth degree... the thing is that it is far too generalized and open to interpretation to make proper sense of it, which further allows self fulfilling prophecies.
Further, 6 in biblical terms is a number short of perfection-- that being imperfection. 5 is the number symbolic of man, and 7 is divine. I suggest you do some research before you attempt to debate with me.
Quote:
You're more then entitled to your beliefs; but please don't argue one god If you are using multiple stances of him and incorporating your own philosophy, as the deviation is rather senseless.
As I am free, you are free.
But, that makes no sence, my friend. In hinduism, I believe it is written that all of the Gods are reflections of the one true God. Also, Hinduism teaches that other, outside beliefs can be learned from. Again, if one wants to learn about something, one goes to as many sources as possible collecting information and deliberating it on thier own as I do. Not everything I believe in is written down and it is all rather scatterred on the website.
~Galactic Cake
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/13/05 04:11 PM)
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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On another note:
I suppose I really shouldn't be arguing with you, for you suggest that you are a Prophet of God acording to your website. A prophet of god has a few grammatical and syntax errors on his website... If you ask me, you are for more human then you choose to believe.
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon2/prophets/home.html
and, perhaps I'm wrong in even attempting to debate with you, especially since you assert, and I quote:
"Everything I say is true and I will meticulously go through a philisophical questioning process to proove it."
Which means I'll be getting a reply right?
I suggest you choose your words more carefully.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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/looks for MAGnum.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,871
Loc: isle de la muerte 
Last seen: 6 years, 1 day
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Re: Christianity and "salvation" [Re: SoopaX]
#4541758 - 08/16/05 09:31 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoopaX said:
I have a question that I'd like to direct mainly to people who call themselves "Christian", and have the basic belief that the only way to get into heaven is through accepting Jesus as your savior. Other comments are welcome, but it's that group that I'm wondering about. So, here goes;
If I can't accept Jesus as my "savior", or even the existance of God, due to the lack of any scientific proof of such, and I don't think that anything would cause me to accept them without real concrete proof, is it possible for me to get to heaven? One of the things I'm thinking, lets say that I knew that I was going to die in the immediate future. My mind might, in a fear reaction, begin to wonder about the after-life and decide that maybe I should just 'think' to my self "OK, I believe in God and Jesus, hes my savior". But God would certainly know that I didn't really believe it. So how does a person who is so science-minded accept the unprovable?
I had a hard time recognizing that I didn't believe in God as a son of God person that came once and for all time as Jesus. I just don't believe. I asked many times. If it's true show me some proof. But no proof ever came. Not a word, not a breath or even a sign of Jesus ever moved me.
If there's a God then She speaks to me in a way that I can understand and not through Christian symbolism.
We have all been inundated and partially brainwashed into Christian symbolism and symbols are hard to reconcile. Carl Jung would say that many people act out the archetypes of the collective unconscious.
I have felt particularly close to being damned at times, and finally I said, ok, fuck it, then I'm damned. If I ever became Christian it would be in total and abrupt contradistinction to everything I ever believed and strove for. So in essence if I was Christian I would be damning myself, or at least showing tremendous self hatred.
The only consequence of that self hatred would be my hating everything else as well. And is all that hatred and fear the way to God or the path of the holy? I would really really hope not because that would be the way of unending war and conflict.
Fuck that. I am a peace lover. If God likes war then I must say that I am against God. But I dont believe that's the case. In fact, I don't believe in God as described by the religions of the world.
What I do believe in is awareness and its natural peace. Therefore I meditate. And it brings me peace.
I have found practical truth in the tantras. Hindu and Buddhist.
All that other stuff is the confused ramblings of unhealthiness and borderline scitzophrenia. And so I actually have to feel sorry for those people who have gone that Christian route. My sister was a nun and it drove her to have many nervous breakdowns.
Don't go that route. Choose peace, and unity and the advaita - nondual philosophy. That's my wish upon you.
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...or something
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