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Invisibletekramrepus
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My beef with christianity
    #3454994 - 12/06/04 04:01 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

1. Their only book of reference is the Bible. It is well known this book has been revised and edited many times, and many books were left out of the compilation of the "bible". Not to mention the bible contains the OLD TESTAMENT....which really had nothign to do with jesus considering he was neither jewish, nor believed in the God "YahWeh"

2. You only live one life. In the bible, there is a WONDERFUL example of reincarnation (John the baptist, who was Elijah in a previous life) yet christians time and time again denounce the idea of reincarnation. Talk about absurd....

3. Jesus died for our sins, thus freeing us. No. Jesus was murdered because he refused to tell a lie (He would not say what they wanted him to). His death did not HAVE to occur in that mannner. But then again, if I was one of the people who murdered jesus, I'd probably try to make it look like it was meant to be also! The truth behind jesus "Dying for our sins" is that he came to earth, lived and showed an example contrary to the current establishment, and gave his life up in order to show Truth. He willingly surrendered his life.

4. Jesus ate meat. I'm sorry, but no matter how many scriptures will say he was a meat-eater, I find this false and innacurate. YES, he might have served fish and bread....but I do not believe jesus would ingest meat on a regular basis. Perphaps he did once or twice. I do believe one of the commandments was "Though shall not kill". I tend to follow the essene christianity thought-stream, in which jesus was a practicing Fruitarian, and would not iniatate anyone into his inner circle unless they gave up this dense act.

5. Jesus is God incarnate. nononononono. Can you fools not read!? Jesus was CHRIST, not God. Jesus was born a normal man like you and me (regardless of how advanced his soul was), and ATTAINED christhood. Christ is a consciousness which is the first creation of Father /Mother Godhead. He had become connected to Godsource through the mediator of Christ, and this is the destiny for all of us.

6. Jesus was the only son of God. Ahem.....all humans are my friends.

7. Jesus was a jew. No....he did not practice any religion. He spoke about our father, and about love, and about living correctly.

8. If we dont accept jesus christ as our personal savior, we are condemned to eternal damnation. (need I even speak more on this)










In this time of transition, all truth will be revealed to the inhabitants on earth, at the capacity they can receive it.

I'm telling you truthfully, the story of Jesus is available to all those who have ears to hear.


his true message might be forgotten, but it is NOT lost.

The heart of his message was simple.

"Purity, Love, and Service in God's name"


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OfflineGomp
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3455006 - 12/06/04 04:04 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

lost in translation :P


--------------------


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Disclaimer!?


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3455065 - 12/06/04 04:28 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

supermarket said:
1. Their only book of reference is the Bible. It is well known this book has been revised and edited many times, and many books were left out of the compilation of the "bible".    Not to mention the bible contains the OLD TESTAMENT....which really had nothign to do with jesus considering he was neither jewish, nor believed in the God "YahWeh"




Actually Isreal in the OT is a very good picture of how Christians live their lives today. Constantly moving back and forth from God. Sin. Repent. Repeat. Also, the OT shows the need of a savior. There are plently of prophesies looking forward to Jesus in the OT. The OT says that he will be from the line of David (A JEW!) Check this out also:

Quote:



1. The Old Testament Teaching About Christ. From the opening pages of Genesis through the Prophets the Old Testament predicts the coming of a Redeemer-King, Jesus Christ, and tells us of His work among men and before God. That teaching takes two major forms: prophecy and types.


Prophecy. The prophecies about Christ touch many aspects of His life and ministry. Here is a brief sample of the more than 300 Old Testament prophecies about Christ.

    * Born of woman (Gen. 3:15)
    * Descended from Abraham (Gen. 22:18)
    * From the tribe of Judah (Gen. 49:10)
    * Crucified and forsaken by God (Ps. 22)
    * Ruler in Zion (Ps. 110)
    * Virgin-born (Is. 7:14)
    * The God-King (Is. 9:6)
    * Descended from David (Is. 11:1)
    * The Servant of Jehovah (Is. 42)
    * Born in Bethlehem of Judah (Mic. 5:2)
    * Humble entry into Jerusalem (Zech. 9:9)

Types. The work of Christ was also predicted throughout the Old Testament in typology. Here are some primary examples:

    * Adam (Gen. 2, Rom. 5:9)
    * Melchizedek (Gen. 14:17-20; Heb. 7)
    * Isaac, offered at Moriah (Gen. 22)
    * The Passover lamb (Ex. 12; 1 Cor. 5:7,8)
    * The High Priest (Ex. 28; Heb. 4:14,15)
    * The burnt offering (Lev. 1; Eph. 5:2)
    * The Day of Atonement (Lev. 16; Heb. 9:28)
    * The Kinsman-Redeemer (Ruth 4; Acts 20:28)
    * The Suffering Servant (Is. 53; Mark 10:45)




-http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/sb101/page6.html

Aint ignorance a bitch?

Quote:


2. You only live one life.    In the bible, there is a WONDERFUL example of reincarnation (John the baptist, who was Elijah in a previous life) yet christians time and time again denounce the idea of reincarnation.  Talk about absurd....





Where do you get this? Please give a reference to this from the bible. If you are referring to something of the extent of "the spirit of Elijah was also with John" does not mean they are the same, but have the same characteristics in the spirit in sending out God's message and prophesying. David had the heart of God, but that does not mean that he was God.

Quote:


3.  Jesus died for our sins, thus freeing us.    No.  Jesus was murdered because he refused to tell a lie (He would not say what they wanted him to).  His death did not HAVE to occur in that mannner.  But then again, if I was one of the people who murdered jesus, I'd probably try to make it look like it was meant to be also!    The truth behind jesus "Dying for our sins" is that he came to earth, lived and showed an example contrary to the current establishment, and gave his life up in order to show Truth. He willingly surrendered his life.





Jesus definetly did NOT have to do this, but did it out love of the Father. Read about it someday...

Quote:


4. Jesus ate meat.    I'm sorry, but no matter how many scriptures will say he was a meat-eater, I find this false and innacurate. YES, he might have served fish and bread....but I do not believe jesus would ingest meat on a regular basis. Perphaps he did once or twice.  I do believe one of the commandments was "Though shall not kill".    I tend to follow the essene christianity thought-stream, in which jesus was a practicing Fruitarian, and would not iniatate anyone into his inner circle unless they gave up this dense act.





The OT and NT seem to cover this issue fairly well - you'd actually have to read through alot of the bible to find this :smile:

Quote:


5. Jesus is God incarnate.    nononononono. Can you fools not read!?  Jesus was CHRIST, not God.  Jesus was born a normal man like you and me (regardless of how advanced his soul was), and ATTAINED christhood.  Christ is a consciousness which is the first creation of Father Godhead.  He had become connected to Godsource through the mediator of Christ, and this is the destiny for all of us.





Can you not read? Read the gospels and you will see something very different.

Quote:


6. Jesus was the only son of God.    Ahem.....all humans are my friends.





What do friends have to do with that? Jesus was perfectly man and perfectly God at the same time. How many humans do you know that are this?

Quote:


7.  Jesus was a jew.    No....he did not practice any religion. He spoke about our father, and about love, and about living correctly.





If you haven't noticed Jewish refers to not only a religion, but also a genealogical heritage and Jesus was from David's line.

Quote:


8. If we dont accept jesus christ as our personal savior, we are condemned to eternal damnation. (need I even speak more on this)





Boo hoo! I don't have the power to save myself without the help of God boo hoo!

Quote:


In this time of transition, all truth will be revealed to the inhabitants on earth, at the capacity they can receive it.

I'm telling you truthfully, the story of Jesus is available to all those who have ears to hear.


his true message might be forgotten, but it is NOT lost. 

The heart of his message was simple.

"Purity, Love, and Service  in God's name"




Dude....


--------------------


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3455102 - 12/06/04 04:36 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

My beef with christianity is it's a religion! Religion breeds ignorance.


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: DNKYD]
    #3455116 - 12/06/04 04:41 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

"True Christianity" is not a religion. It is truth, but those who are unbelieving aren't able to understand this.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3455163 - 12/06/04 04:52 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

ld50negative1 said:
"True Christianity" is not a religion. It is truth, but those who are unbelieving aren't able to understand this.




Except for the fact that it is followed exactly as a religion? You are spouting the same pointless, needless dogma that true Christianity does not require. True Christianity comes along about as often as Jesus Christ himself does. There are numerous other paths to Christ that aren't near impossible to walk as Christianity itself is. Too much garbage and dead bodies obscuring the path. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3455178 - 12/06/04 04:56 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

ld50negative1 said:
"True Christianity" is not a religion. It is truth, but those who are unbelieving aren't able to understand this.




Except for the fact that it is followed exactly as a religion? You are spouting the same pointless, needless dogma that true Christianity does not require. True Christianity comes along about as often as Jesus Christ himself does. There are numerous other paths to Christ that aren't near impossible to walk as Christianity itself is. Too much garbage and dead bodies obscuring the path. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Quote:


...those who are unbelieving aren't able to understand this.





--------------------


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3455188 - 12/06/04 04:58 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

Not quite sure where you got your list of "facts" supermarket. If all that were true I'd have a problem with Christianity too. It looks like ld50negative1 cleared some of this up.


Edited by shroomydan (12/06/04 09:44 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3455202 - 12/06/04 05:01 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

Understanding and belief are two seperate things, my friend. You can have understanding without belief, but understanding never comes from belief.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3455285 - 12/06/04 05:16 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

ld, your post really hurt my feelings man.

Not because of you trying to dispute me, which I ALWAYS welcome, but because you put me down in a condensending way.

A great christian example you are!




anyway:

1.
Yes. The old testament predicted a savior would come. This is wonderful, this is outstanding, and amazing. However, the teachings of the old testament and the teaching of Christ were far different. It is YOU who should study, my brother.




2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Where do you get this? Please give a reference to this from the bible. If you are referring to something of the extent of "the spirit of Elijah was also with John" does not mean they are the same, but have the same characteristics in the spirit in sending out God's message and prophesying. David had the heart of God, but that does not mean that he was God."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. ANd if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come." - Mathew 11:13-14


"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the lord" - Malachi 4:5


Whatever dude, the bible is open to interpretation, and I just find it rather silly that the rest of the world has come to understand reincarnation, while christians sternly dispute it, and say it is not real. give me a break!


3. "Jesus definetly did NOT have to do this, but did it out love of the Father. Read about it someday... "


Here you are just showing your true christian hospitality, and making no debate whatso ever! You are assuming I havent read the new testament (which I have) and being rude! Wow!





4. you are right, they do cover it well. I call it a lie.


5. "Can you not read? Read the gospels and you will see something very different."

Guess what! Not only can I read (you should know this by now) but I can also make intelligent decisions! Whoever thinks Jesus is THE son of god is highly misled.











The rest of your nonsense is the same christian bollocks that has been repeated over and over.

Its illogical, false, and its old ways are coming to an end.


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OnlinePeyoteZen
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3455289 - 12/06/04 05:17 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

Christianity  :crazy2:
I think its a load of bullshit. 
A true christian probably wouldnt even call himself a christian.
Bunch of useless symbols and babble.


--------------------


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3455290 - 12/06/04 05:18 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

shroomydan, I didnt claim these as facts.

Nothing about christianity is based on a facts, considering two valid points.

1) God can not be proven
2) Jesus cannot be proven to have existed


Christianity is based on faith, and belief. Do not even use the word "fact" and "Christianity" in the same sentence@!


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #3455292 - 12/06/04 05:18 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

"Christianity
I think its a load of bullshit.
A true christian probably wouldnt even call himself a christian.
Bunch of useless symbols and babble."



You are right, we don't call ourselves christians....in fact we really don't like what christianity is doing.


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3455314 - 12/06/04 05:23 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Not because of you trying to dispute me, which I ALWAYS welcome, but because you put me down in a condensending way.




I didn't mean to come off that way towards you, but I can't even begin to explain the reality of truths of the bible in my life. That is why I reacted in the way I did when I read the things you see in the bible.

Quote:


A great christian example you are!





Don't look to me or any other christian as an example. Look at Jesus. I fall prey to sin and failure just as every other man and if i have really hurt your feelings I'm sorry... I just wish that everyone could see what I have seen and understand what I've understood...


--------------------


Edited by ld50negative1 (12/06/04 05:30 PM)


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3455343 - 12/06/04 05:27 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

thanks for taking the time to write that post, it really made a difference.


I, like you, am just a human on the path we are ALL on.

I was not trying to offend anyone in my thread, just trying to stir up debate without heated conflict (very hard to do on subject of spirituality!)



I too cannot explain how much I have benfitted by Jesus and his coming to this planet.


Regardless of our different views, it does not matter.


The message is LOVE. It is not to worship God in ANY form (jesus, buddha, or yahweh) but to speak with love, to live with love, and to heal with love.



Love was the original commandment from which all others came when we failed to implement it.


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OnlinePeyoteZen
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: ld50negative1]
    #3455358 - 12/06/04 05:29 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

^I don't understand why you NEED the bible and all the dogmatic debris that comes along with religion in order the get at the real CORE of it all??
Please explain yourself.


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #3455388 - 12/06/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

Because I have a true relationship with God, an unexplainable one, I see the bible as something that was given to me as a guideline for living my life. Since you see the world around you and realize that God doesn't actively interact with man anymore (umm physically I suppose, but still spiritually) because of the sinfulness of the world you have to wonder how can a PERFECT and righteous GOd interact with a fallen and sinful man? Well, the bible makes the most sense... I always benefit from the stuff in the bible... it really encourages and helps you stay on the straight and narrow... the New Testament teaches about the death of Laws and Dogmas and gives birth to a relationship of love with God that does NOT need dogma or laws... when you love God and follow the Holy Spirit there is no need for law.... I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say..... all of true spirituality is so unreal (because it is so incredibly real)


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: PeyoteZen]
    #3455393 - 12/06/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

I agree.

In my belief, jesus taught that scripture is DEAD, and that Christ is living in each and every one of us.

Truth cannot come from written material, on a book book (no consciousness).



Truth, realization, and Love are all internal experiences/processess in my opinion.


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OnlinePeyoteZen
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3455412 - 12/06/04 05:36 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

I still don't get what you mean.
But oh well.
Peace be with you i guess.


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OnlineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: My beef with christianity [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3455932 - 12/06/04 07:14 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

From the valid frame of reference that comes from within the Judeao-Christian traditions, you are incorrect across the board. Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want (no brain police here), but...

Y'shua be Miriam was Jewish. Jews worship YHVH. Jesus denied that John was Elijah.

The "Vicarious Sacrifice" IS the mainstream doctrine of Christianity, but of course there is the Thomistic doctrine and numerous related Gnostic doctrines.

Sacrificial Judaism was still in practice, and the meat was eaten and 'received with thanksgiving.' Doves and lamb from the peace and burnt-offerings at the temple were sold in the outer courtyard of the temple for sacrifice and later for consumption. Sacrifice is a terrible thing, blood everywhere, bleeting, cooing, suffering and death. The sacrificial theology of Jesus crucified makes little sense without this entire scheme being kept foremost in mind ("Lamb of GOD who takes the sins of the world..."). The Commandment commonly translated as "Thou shalt not kill," is accurately rendered "murdered" in the Hebrew, not kill in the sense of animal sacrifice and food preparation. Jewish diet does not include fruitarians, vegetarians or breatharians for that matter. Ascetic communities such as the Essenes may have abstained from mammal food, but the Pascal Lamb at Passover for example was just that -
lamb.

The Synoptic theologies of Matthew, Mark and Luke recognize Y'shua as a man "anointed" by god. The Hebrew term for anointed is Meshiach [Messiah], the Greek word is Christ. The title Son of GOD refers to the Divine Right of Kingship throughout Jewish history and is found in the OT pertaining to David, Solomon and others. It is not a unique title ascribed to Y'shua, and was used derogatorily by the Roman executioners as the label for the crime of treason against the Empire of Rome. John's theology portrays not a man anointed by GOD, but radically differently - 'GOD clothed in flesh.' This has colored the other theologies in the minds of many or most Christians, but was almost excluded from the canon for appearing too Gnostic.

Jesus WAS a Jew. Period.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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