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InvisibleRavus
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Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy
    #6197957 - 10/22/06 04:07 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

is an ancient enemy indeed.

"His disciples asked him: When will the dead rest? When will the new world arrive? He replied: That which you are waiting for has come, but you don't recognize it."

Obviously, the Second Coming is bullshit, an ancient misinterpretation that solidified into mythology even against numerous sayings of Jesus that deny it.

"Jesus said: You often wanted to hear the words I am speaking to you. You have no else from whom you can hear them. The days will come when you will seek me and you will not be able to find me."

Those days are already here, though the Church does not admit it. Jesus knew he was only human insomuch as he saw all human beings as "only humans", but humans with spirits and the potential to reconnect to the "Kingdom of God." The entire modern day Church turns Jesus into something he was not because they listen more to his ignorant disciples than to the man himself.

"Jesus said: Where they are three Gods they are Gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."

Jesus quite clearly asserts that the Trinity is polytheistic.

"Jesus said: People think, perhaps, that I have come to throw peace upon the world. They don't know that I have come to throw disagreement upon the world, and fire, and sword, and struggle."

Speaks for itself.

"Jesus said: If your leaders say to you "Look! The Kingdom is in the sky!" then the birds will be there before you are. If they say that the Kingdom is in the sea, then the fish will be there before you are. Rather, the Kingdom is within you and it is outside of you."

Isn't it ironic that the people who almost always proclaim that the "Kingdom is in the sky" are Jesus' self-proclaimed followers? Jesus clearly did not believe in the Christian Heaven or the Christian Second Coming supposedly linked to the "Kingdom of God," because he continuously asserts the Kingdom of God is in the present and that those are lies.

And Jesus' most enlightened quote:

"Jesus said to them: If you fast you will bring sin to yourselves, and if you pray you will be condemned, and if you give charity you will damage your spirits."

Clearly, the only way to end Christianity once and for all is to bring its Prophet back.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineDankAne
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6197970 - 10/22/06 04:13 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Absolutely a cool post....

I mean I don't know much about Christianity, I choose a more scientific approach to religion...

I wonder why Jesus's quotes were overlooked, or so it seems, in the modern church.

Isn't he the most important concept/person/being in the entire religion?

Fishy


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6197977 - 10/22/06 04:14 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Clearly, the only way to end Christianity once and for all is to bring its Prophet back.



They'd just crucify him again.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Silversoul]
    #6197979 - 10/22/06 04:14 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
They'd just crucify him again.




You cannot crucify awareness.

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6197992 - 10/22/06 04:21 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

The quotes used in the original posting are not found in the scripture.

Another minion of darkness is attempting to add to God's Word and pervert the gospel.

The doctrines expounded are nonsense.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fivepointer]
    #6198051 - 10/22/06 04:38 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Another minion of darkness :rofl2:

Down right corny. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fivepointer]
    #6198065 - 10/22/06 04:44 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
The quotes used in the original posting are not found in the scripture.




That's a relief. :grin:

Quote:


Another minion of darkness is attempting to add to God's Word and pervert the gospel.




Calling another poster a "minion of darkness" in this forum contributes nothing to the discussion of ideas presented in this thread. Please refrain from addressing other members in this manner and instead focus on the ideas presented.

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6198108 - 10/22/06 05:02 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Anyone who brings a false gospel, with quotes that are false, is unregenerate, spiritually dead and under the bondage of Satan. Such a person a minion of darkness by definition, it is merely a statement of fact, not a personal attack. I hope God may grant him repentence from such spiritual wickedness, and have the light of the gospel shine into his heart.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fivepointer]
    #6198118 - 10/22/06 05:04 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Anyone who brings a false gospel, with quotes that are false, is unregenerate, spiritually dead and under the bondage of Satan.



Aw, don't be so hard on yourself.  :smirk:

Quote:

I hope God may grant him repentence from such spiritual wickedness, and have the light of the gospel shine into his heart.



That's the spirit.  Now go out there and repent your false teachings.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fivepointer]
    #6198127 - 10/22/06 05:08 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

It is not a statement of fact; it is an expressed judgement of the nature of another individual who is contributing in this forum. If you review the rules, this is not acceptable, as it does not benefit the discussion of the ideas presented. If you feel the need to label another poster in such a manner, feel free to contact them or anyone else through private messages, or post about it in the Off-Topic Discussion forum.

Not everyone in this forum holds the same viewpoint as you, and what may appear as a statement of fact to someone with your viewpoint will not appear as such to someone who does not hold your viewpoint.

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Silversoul]
    #6198135 - 10/22/06 05:10 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

:poke:


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Silversoul]
    #6198139 - 10/22/06 05:11 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
Anyone who brings a false gospel, with quotes that are false, is unregenerate, spiritually dead and under the bondage of Satan.



Aw, don't be so hard on yourself.  :smirk:

Quote:

I hope God may grant him repentence from such spiritual wickedness, and have the light of the gospel shine into his heart.



That's the spirit.  Now go out there and repent your false teachings.




Pr 26:4  Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fivepointer]
    #6198161 - 10/22/06 05:16 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

IMO you understand nothing about and contribute nothing to this forum. You seem unable to understand this and so I must assume you lack some fundamental education and understanding or you have a severe learning disability. Since all this has been pointed out to you before.  I suggest you go away until you can become a contributing member of this forum. Pretty please. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Icelander]
    #6198167 - 10/22/06 05:18 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
It is not a statement of fact; it is an expressed judgement of the nature of another individual who is contributing in this forum. If you review the rules, this is not acceptable, as it does not benefit the discussion of the ideas presented. If you feel the need to label another poster in such a manner, feel free to contact them or anyone else through private messages, or post about it in the Off-Topic Discussion forum.




That stands for you as well, sir. :tongue:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6198176 - 10/22/06 05:19 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

But he said "pretty please."  :confused:


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Icelander]
    #6198183 - 10/22/06 05:20 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
IMO you understand nothing about and contribute nothing to this forum. You seem unable to understand this and so I must assume you lack some fundamental education and understanding or you have a severe learning disability. Since all this has been pointed out to you before.  I suggest you go away until you can become a contributing member of this forum. Pretty please. :heart:




How does the assertion that I have some "severe learning disability" add anything to the discusion?  Where is the moderator??


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fivepointer]
    #6198186 - 10/22/06 05:21 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

I'm right here, and I gave him the same warning that I did you.

I hereby decree that any further comments directed towards the nature of any other poster in this thread will receive follow-up, as the presence of these types of comments are derailing this discussion.

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fivepointer]
    #6198201 - 10/22/06 05:24 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

I didn't assert anything. I assumed it based on the evidence I had. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: fivepointer]
    #6198214 - 10/22/06 05:27 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
The quotes used in the original posting are not found in the scripture.

Another minion of darkness is attempting to add to God's Word and pervert the gospel.

The doctrines expounded are nonsense.




There are more Gospels than those included in the Bible, in case you didn't know. And not only are there more Gospels, but the Gospels recently discovered in archaeological digs are unchanged and contain the true quotes of Jesus.

Not to say these Gospels are isolated from the Bible. Many of the quotes Jesus said in the Bible are also in the Gospels not in the Bible, sometimes with slight variations and other times with wider variations. But seeing as the Bible has been revised and translated from language to language for thousands of years, it seems quite clear which is more accurate.

These quotes all come from the Gospel of Thomas, which I've read numerous times. It's the most enlightening Christian book you'll ever read, if you can decipher the metaphorical way in which Jesus speaks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6198219 - 10/22/06 05:27 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Isn't it ironic that the people who almost always proclaim that the "Kingdom is in the sky" are Jesus' self-proclaimed followers?




This illustrates the difference between followers and practitioners. Those who are looking for someone to worship are not interested in practicing that which is preached to them. Those who seek out a teacher, rather than an idol, will at least attempt to apply that which they learn.

Also, in my experience, those who proclaim themselves Christian are some of the least likely people to practice what Jesus lived. The volume level and intensity of their proclamations is inversely related to their practical application of said beliefs.


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6198225 - 10/22/06 05:29 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Ravus.....where are those quotes found? I'd like to read them in context....especially that last one.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: TameMe]
    #6198260 - 10/22/06 05:37 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

They come from the Gospel of Thomas, though the problem is the Gospel of Thomas often takes individual sayings and quotes from Jesus without putting them in context. That last quote, however, does have at least some context to work with:

Jesus asked his disciples: Make a comparison, what am I like? Simon Peter replied: You are like a righteous messenger. Matthew replied: You are like an intelligent lover of wisdom. Thomas replied: Teacher, I cannot possibly say what you are like. Jesus said to Thomas: I am not your teacher, you have drunk from and become intoxicated from the bubbling water that I poured out. Jesus took Thomas and they withdrew. Jesus said three things to him. When Thomas returned to the other disciples, they asked him: What did Jesus tell you? Thomas replied: If I tell you even one of the sayings that he told me, you would pick up stones and throw them at me, and fire would come out of those stones and burn you up.

This is the saying immediately preceding the saying, "If you fast you will bring sin to yourselves, and if you pray you will be condemned, and if you give to charity you will damage your spirits," leading to the implication that these three sayings are what Jesus told Thomas, whom the Gospel is named after.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6198269 - 10/22/06 05:40 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Anybody know what Jesus was talking about here?  :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6198270 - 10/22/06 05:41 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

why do you think he would say those things? I don't understand how any of those could be true or why he'd even say such a thing.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Icelander]
    #6198272 - 10/22/06 05:42 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

The connection between the mind and all of existence, clearly. The Kingdom is within and outside you, and Jesus also said that to realize what was right in front of you was to realize the Kingdom of God, so what else could it be besides the unity of these two?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Icelander]
    #6198276 - 10/22/06 05:43 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

maybe he was speaking directly to Thomas alone and knew what his intentions were.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: TameMe]
    #6198286 - 10/22/06 05:45 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

TameMe said:
maybe he was speaking directly to Thomas alone and knew what his intentions were.




Ultimately, I think he is stating that engaging in these actions are not the path. :wink:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: TameMe]
    #6198292 - 10/22/06 05:46 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

TameMe said:
why do you think he would say those things? I don't understand how any of those could be true or why he'd even say such a thing.




Seeing as I didn't know Jesus personally, I'll have to go with one scholar's interpretation of this quote:

"The prohibitions of fasting, prayer and giving in charity are logical, from Thomas' perspective. If one's principal religious duty is to seek and find the hidden Kingdom, when you succeed and return successfully to the condition of the Beginning, turning to God in prayer or repentance is irrelevant or misguided. You exist in a mythical time before sin came into being.
"Thomas consistently expresses confidence in the human ability to discover hidden truth without any direct divine help or intervention. If you rely on divine help through prayer, or on repentance through fasting, or on obedience through acts of charity, you are going in the wrong direction."

Like any one of Jesus' quotes, though, it could very easily be interpreted thousands of different ways, or not understood at all.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: TameMe]
    #6198296 - 10/22/06 05:47 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

I like what Ravus says.

It seems obvious to me that the others were missing the message of Jesus and looking to some kind of works and actions to achieve spiritual goals. Spirituality consists of understanding your mind IMO. When you truly understand your own mind you understand everything.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: TameMe]
    #6198298 - 10/22/06 05:48 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

TameMe said:
why do you think he would say those things? I don't understand how any of those could be true or why he'd even say such a thing.




Perhaps he was saying that these activities are not the path to divinity, but rather distractions from the divine experience available in the present moment? Those who prefer to pose and posture in their attempts to achieve righteousness are ignoring the Spirit they claim to worship.


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Veritas]
    #6198325 - 10/22/06 05:53 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Precisely.

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6198341 - 10/22/06 05:56 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

but wasn't Jesus praying himself, like on the Mount of Olives ?
and didn't he feed the poor, like with the bread miracle ?

just riddling for consistency.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6198362 - 10/22/06 06:03 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Isn't it ironic that the people who almost always proclaim that the "Kingdom is in the sky" are Jesus' self-proclaimed followers? Jesus clearly did not believe in the Christian Heaven or the Christian Second Coming supposedly linked to the "Kingdom of God," because he continuously asserts the Kingdom of God is in the present and that those are lies.




Nietzsche came to a similar conclusion in The Anti-Christ, which is quite interesting since he wrote this before the Gospel of Thomas was re-discovered in Egypt.

Here is something I previously wrote about Nietzsche's view of Jesus for anyone who missed it:

Quote:

Nietzsche thought Jesus was a revolt against the Jewish church, priests, "higher men", caste, theologians, hierarchy, etc. His view of Jesus seems similar to the Gnostic's view, although he views Jesus in a less favorable light.

"Sin, every kind of distancing relationship between God and man, is abolished - presicely this is the 'glad tiding'. Blessedness is not promised, it is not tied to any conditions: it is the only reality - the rest is signs for speaking of it... It is not a 'belief' which distinguishes the Christian: the Christian acts, he is distinguished by a different mode of acting... he knows that it is through the practice of one's life that one feels 'divine', 'blessed', 'evangelic', at all times a 'child of God.' It is not penance, not prayer for forgiveness, which leads to God... The Kingdom of Heaven is a condition of the heart - not something that comes 'upon the earth' or 'after death'."

He thinks the true message of Jesus, a message expressed by his actions rather than his words or death, was distorted by his Apostles in order to create a Church. Jesus was turned into the very thing he was against: a priest, a theologian, a 'saviors', a 'higher man', etc. That is why he says: "in reality there has only been one Christian, and he died on the Cross... What was called 'Evangel' from this moment onwards was already the opposite of what he had lived."




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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6198381 - 10/22/06 06:09 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

he knows that it is through the practice of one's life that one feels 'divine', 'blessed', 'evangelic', at all times a 'child of God.' ... The Kingdom of Heaven is a condition of the heart -




Amen.


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6198383 - 10/22/06 06:09 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
but wasn't Jesus praying himself, like on the Mount of Olives ?
and didn't he feed the poor, like with the bread miracle ?

just riddling for consistency.



I don't think he was saying that these are bad things in and of themselves. What he was trying to say is that if you rely on them as a path to God, they will only impede your progress.


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Silversoul]
    #6198387 - 10/22/06 06:10 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Or perhaps that they should be performed without an ulterior motive?


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Veritas]
    #6198418 - 10/22/06 06:22 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

That quote is probably the hardest to decipher in the whole book, but Thomas seems to think of people as having the ability to find enlightenment or see "The Kingdom of God" on their own without any God-issued repentance. For those searching for the Kingdom of God, to say that, "If you fast you will bring sin to yourselves, and if you pray you will be condemned, and if you give to charity you will damage your spirits" may be true, but notice the language. You bring sin to yourself, your damage your spirits, you become condemned- by doing these actions to search for the Kingdom of God, it is you that distract yourself from the path, not God or anyone else. You have to open your eyes first before you can act without sin, and even if those acts are acts of charity or prayer, you will be able to perform them, like you said, "without an ulterior motive."

Not that I agree with Jesus on any of these, but his quotes on existence I do tend to appreciate.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Icelander]
    #6198429 - 10/22/06 06:28 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I When you truly understand your own mind you understand everything.




one of the wisest things you've ever said imo.


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6198435 - 10/22/06 06:29 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Yes, I agree.  Jesus (or those who wrote under his pseudonym :wink:) seems to have grasped some essential truths about creating Heaven or Hell through one's actions.  As is my policy with most spiritual teachers/teachings, I take what seems true and useful, and leave the rest.


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Silversoul]
    #6198438 - 10/22/06 06:29 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Ok, I agree that if what one practices is the union with god, like Jesus did and that 'automatically' leads to some kind of 'prayer' or 'charity' involved, it does not necessarily work the way around.
Good point !
And a good reason why the churches won't agree with this :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Deviate]
    #6198458 - 10/22/06 06:36 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I When you truly understand your own mind you understand everything.




one of the wisest things you've ever said imo.




Yes, and this advice pre-dates Jesus by quite a few years.

"Know thyself," or "γνώθι σεαυτόν" was inscribed over the entrance to the Temple of Apollo in Ancient Greece.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6198514 - 10/22/06 06:57 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Did you make those Jesus-quotes up yourself? If not, there is no accuracy to most of them and you did not cite any references. Jesus never had a Trinity to deny, He emerged from monotheistic Judaism that had a number of Holy Names for deity. Tertullian coined the word Trinity based on NT verses that speak to 'the Father,' 'the Son' and 'the Holy Spirit,' and these were eventually turned into intellectual constructs about the Divine Economia - structure of the Godhead.

One of your quotes relates to Thomas and there is much scholarship on the theology of that early writing which suggests that it is genuine, pre-Mark, pre-Q, and derivative of an early oral tradition.

Matthew the 'Judaizer,' with his own agenda preferred to use the word 'heaven' instead of 'G-d' with regard to the kingdom because he was sensitive to writing the Names of deity because of magico-religious sentiments in Judaic tradition.

Increase scholarly documentation. Feel free to dismiss devotional fanaticism utterly - it is all pathological.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Veritas]
    #6198557 - 10/22/06 07:09 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

If you are searching for the kingdom of Heaven, then you cannot find it. By searching for something that is already there inside you, you truly are seperating yourself from it.

To bring sin, condemnation and damage to your spirits, you must be mentally seperating yourself from the kingdom of heaven/god... The only true seperation from the kingdom of heaven/god is the idea that you are seperate... the idea you have to search.

Jesus said that the kindgdom of God is RIGHT THERE inside us all! Inside everywhere.

The greatest lie we have ever told ourselves is that we are seperate from God.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Todcasil]
    #6198620 - 10/22/06 07:26 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

The greatest lie we have ever told ourselves is that we are seperate from God

Well said. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Icelander]
    #6198783 - 10/22/06 08:17 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

As far as science can tell everything is made from the same stuff. Looking at it that way we could say accurately that all is one. And that stuff that we and everything else is made of. Where does it come from? That's the million dollar question. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Icelander]
    #6198958 - 10/22/06 09:37 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

:todcasil:

Its all different densities or vibrations of the same energy :heart:

All is one, because e=mc^2

heh.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6200219 - 10/23/06 02:09 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
is an ancient enemy indeed.

"His disciples asked him: When will the dead rest? When will the new world arrive? He replied: That which you are waiting for has come, but you don't recognize it."

Obviously, the Second Coming is bullshit, an ancient misinterpretation that solidified into mythology even against numerous sayings of Jesus that deny it.





No. You are the Second Coming (And so am I)!


--------------------
010001100100001001000101!


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6200341 - 10/23/06 03:09 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Did you make those Jesus-quotes up yourself? If not, there is no accuracy to most of them and you did not cite any references. Jesus never had a Trinity to deny, He emerged from monotheistic Judaism that had a number of Holy Names for deity. Tertullian coined the word Trinity based on NT verses that speak to 'the Father,' 'the Son' and 'the Holy Spirit,' and these were eventually turned into intellectual constructs about the Divine Economia - structure of the Godhead.

One of your quotes relates to Thomas and there is much scholarship on the theology of that early writing which suggests that it is genuine, pre-Mark, pre-Q, and derivative of an early oral tradition.

Matthew the 'Judaizer,' with his own agenda preferred to use the word 'heaven' instead of 'G-d' with regard to the kingdom because he was sensitive to writing the Names of deity because of magico-religious sentiments in Judaic tradition.

Increase scholarly documentation. Feel free to dismiss devotional fanaticism utterly - it is all pathological.




Did you read through the thread? All of these quotes are from the Gospel of Thomas, which has been dated by scholars as being written anywhere from the 50s AD to the 100s AD, passed down from oral tradition. Seeing as the book is considered by some scholars to be strongly tied to early Gnosticism (though it does not include the traditionally Gnostic terminology, a fact which seems to support an earlier date of creation than a later one) I'm surprised you've never heard of the Gospel of Thomas or its recent discovery along with scores of other hidden books.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm
http://www.nag-hammadi.com/

And in case you want to check my quotes, here's a translation of the entire Gospel of Thomas:
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Todcasil]
    #6200407 - 10/23/06 03:49 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Todcasil said:
If you are searching for the kingdom of Heaven, then you cannot find it. By searching for something that is already there inside you, you truly are seperating yourself from it.

To bring sin, condemnation and damage to your spirits, you must be mentally seperating yourself from the kingdom of heaven/god... The only true seperation from the kingdom of heaven/god is the idea that you are seperate... the idea you have to search.

Jesus said that the kindgdom of God is RIGHT THERE inside us all! Inside everywhere.

The greatest lie we have ever told ourselves is that we are seperate from God.




exactly!!!!

"ill fast maybe then ill find god, maybe ill give my money and god will come. if i pray god will be there. wait god was here all along, shit ive been wasting my time trying to find god."


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Maitereya]
    #6201922 - 10/23/06 03:46 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Sounds more like Taoism than Christianity.

"What does it mean that we are often our own worst enemy?
The reason I have an enemy is because I have "self".
If I no longer had a "self", I would no longer have an enemy.

Love the whole world as if it were your self;
then you will truly care for all things."


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6202214 - 10/23/06 05:10 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

If I no longer had a "self", I would no longer have an enemy.

Could you have a self and have no enemy?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Icelander]
    #6202682 - 10/23/06 06:59 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

"I am not your teacher. Because you have drank and become drunk from the very same spring from which I draw."




So when I am ready I am going to try and supply everyone with as much drink as possible. If they want to accept the drink and become drunk they will... this seems to be fairly few people though.

Quote:

As far as science can tell everything is made from the same stuff. Looking at it that way we could say accurately that all is one. And that stuff that we and everything else is made of.




It is the bio-geochemical cycle. I totally agree, and it can't get much simpler than that. If you can't understand that everything is one and the same you are oblivious to life itself.

I was thinking about this today in my Ethics class.

The Earth is seen as a whole. People categorize things so easily. If Earth is just seen as Earth, the macrocosm rather than microcosm and all the little shit going on. It can easily be seen that it is all alive. Everything sprouted from the Earth when it was born, or however that happened. Things evolved and grew off one another. Everything came from the same thing. It is all just one big growing life form. Just as little bacteria help us live and be. Everything on the Earth makes it "alive".

I think we are either in some sort of infinite space going larger to smaller. Like the Men In Black thing where our entire "outerspace" is just a marble in some much more vast and expansive place. Or we are in a loop of things and "outerspace" is actually something that makes up the things we are made up of in some sort of connected parallel universe with the larger to smaller thing going on within itself. Hard to explain, not good with communicating my ideas.


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #6202864 - 10/23/06 07:48 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

My apologies. Quite right. I thought that all translations of Thomas were identical, but tranlators may differ on a word or two. Your quote on "three gods" is logia 30 which I did not recognize at all. My bad. Thanks for providing your version. I bought my first translation of Thomas in 1976. However, the reference to "three gods" is not to a trinitarian notion of deity, it is a confluence of references to the source for Matthew 18:20 "For where two are three are gathered in my name, there am I with them," and John 10:34:

"Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' if he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came - and the Scripture cannot be broken - what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?" (NIV)

This NT reference has Jesus drawing from Psalms 82:6:
"I said, 'You are gods,' you are all sons of the Most High.'" (NIV)

Your interpretation caused me a knee-jerk reaction to respond somewhat harshly. Sorry about that chief.  :blush:


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6202923 - 10/23/06 08:01 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Your interpretation caused me a knee-jerk reaction to respond somewhat harshly. Sorry about that chief.  :blush:




Always are there opportunities for growth and transcendence! :wink:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Modern Christianity's Greatest Enemy [Re: Ravus]
    #7439044 - 09/22/07 03:05 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

All I have to say is that this thread was amazing... I enjoyed most of the input.

Also, that Nietszche quote really surprised me. Has been awhile since I've read Nietszche. Something he said turned me off to him, but the quote I like. I still don't understand why it said that he seemed to view Jesus in a negative light, though? All the things he said seem very positive...


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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