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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5391120 - 03/12/06 07:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
What is more dangerous: Ignorance, or half-knowledge. I would strongly say the second one.
Are we ever able to have full knowledge about anything, or will we for ever be damned in half-knowledge ?




Excuse my ignorance, but what the hell is half-knowledge? :confused:

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge, essentially. Knowledge is basically information. When I state that the fifth fret of the third string on a guitar that is properly tuned and intonated to Eb tuning is the note referred to as B, that is knowledge. If I was not to know what the name of the twenty-second president of the United States of America was, then I would be ignorant of that information.

"Half-knowledge" doesn't exist. You either know something, or you don't. If I know only the first half of the lyrics to Nevermore's song I Am The Dog, I only know the first half of those lyrics, and remain ignorant to the second half.

"Half-knowledge" seems to be a mixture of knowing and ignorance of multiple aspects, that one knows certain qualities of a complex state and not others. How this semantical nightmare is more dangerous than ignorance itself is baffling. :wtf:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5391143 - 03/12/06 07:54 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

For example: If I use the atomic bomb, my knowledge is about the physics of nuclear fission and political (social) power.
The knowledge that thousands of humans have to suffer from that, who have nothing to do with both the prior knowledges, and what can lead to the opposite effect than assumed (the innocent victims become more hatred towards the atomic bomb thrower). which compromises the idea of political power (as seen in first concept of knowledge), as far as I know, is called half-knowledge. As the medicinal aftereffects were not known, they were not seen to be serious.
As the intention of the usage of knowledge is a subjective fact (aka EGO), can we ever see, where humans will lead the knowledge in their context ? Atomic fission, of course, was intended to serve humans in a knowing positive way...
But it also can be independent of human intentions, only by not knowing about. Look at X-Rays and how they were used in a crazy way at the beginning, so that everyone got cancer, especially the researchers.

Other half-knowledge examples; Fertilization (as overuse damages the environment), antibiotics (danger of resistance), or our all so beloved spiritual preachers in TV-shows, as they take parts out of context and present it as absolute knowledge, what may only be a relative one...
Every knowledge seems partial, as long we can not see or assume other means of usage, or side-effects of this knowledge.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (03/12/06 08:03 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5391145 - 03/12/06 08:02 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Every knowledge seems partial, as long we can not see or assume other means of usage, or side-effects of this knowledge.




All knowledge is complete. The absence of knowledge of other aspects of reality is ignorance. Ignorance of the consequences of applying a certain knowledge does not mean that the knowledge that is being applied is incomplete.

None of which demonstrates why "half-knowledge" is more dangerous than ignorance itself. Holding some knowledge is more beneficial than holding no knowledge.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5391146 - 03/12/06 08:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Holding some knowledge (in contrast to full knowledge) will elicit the ego to fill the missing knowledge with its own interpretation of reality :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5391197 - 03/12/06 09:14 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

there is no full knowledge or full knowing.
life is very much a fractal and holographic process.
we are adjusting to conditions and creatng new ones
developing knowledge and losing it
much knowledge is valuable only in a temporary way -
applying to conditions that are fleeting.

a few years back a good man was so excited that he could put the whole louvre on a cd rom.
he was amazed at his aspiration to encapsulate all the art and the knowledge of a vast space in a small thing for printing and selling and sharing.

naturally you cannot encapsulate the whole of a bigger thing in a smaller thing, but you may enjoy and use the impressions from one in the other. you can distill from a scene a memorable motif, and this may be key to other scenes as well.

the ever expanding tendrils of google far surpass the idea of a cdrom for his yearning, and google, by virtue of multiple matching, is more mind like in delivering related concepts in bulk vs assuming "this is it"

this is integral to the whole fractal idea, a complex interacts with itself - mirroring it's flow on large and small scales (infinitesimal and cosmic), infinitely.

Also the hologram aspect keeps emerging from the mix, in which impressions of the 3-d world are saved and intermingle with other saved impressions - one sifts and tunes through what is happenning and through one's associations in an amazing multitasking googley way.

our mind makes connections, but cannot encapsulate. it can tune in, but it cannot overrule. full knowledge is not even an ideal, it is a parardox.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5391257 - 03/12/06 10:05 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

right redgreen, that is why I said it :wink:
I also stem from that philosophy: The more I know, the more I will know that I don't know (or something similar like that) :wink:
But I would wish for some kind of holographic memory-device, which is capable to present every correlation of every single fact of knowledge. Then, examinations of filters and probabilities and all that, enclosing the discovery of truth could get in better reach for humans...
Just a dream ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5391648 - 03/12/06 01:31 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
The ego is a destructive force.

Correction: The destructive ego is a destructive force. Ignorance and negligence is the source of destructiveness. Likewise, the constructive ego is a constructive force. Knowledge, reason and creativity is the source of constructiveness. Did it ever occur to you that there are living, actual people that actually have healthy, rational and self-actualizing egos and are actually benevolent, productive people?



Perhaps I should have clarified: An untempered ego is destructive. Or more accurately, an ego that does not understand its place is destructive. The essential truth which all religions teach is that you are a part of something greater than yourself. The idea is to be humbled by this fact, and understand that it's not all about you. Virtue is the result of compassion, and compassion cannot exist without going beyond one's own ego.


Quote:

Compassion is the result of overcoming the ego.

Compassion does not exist without one to be compassionate. Compassion may be the result of transcending the uncompassionate ego, but there is still an ego - the transcendental ego.

Deviate made much more sense - to reiterate what he said in other words - it's really ignorance and evasions of reality that is the issue - not the sense of self per se.



I would agree, except that the reality that the uncompassionate evade is the reality that they are a part of something more important than themselves.

The core teachings of all these world religions leads to a single conclusion: Get over yourself!


--------------------


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: Silversoul]
    #5391659 - 03/12/06 01:36 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
The essential truth which all religions teach is that you are a part of something greater than yourself.




What?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5391660 - 03/12/06 01:38 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

but you are that holographic knowledge and memory thing already.
and we together expand on that.
what dream is it actually?
james bond perhaps?
more stirred than shaken...


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5391686 - 03/12/06 01:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

but you are that holographic knowledge and memory thing already.
:lol: I know, and I know we are all that, but I hope for some more accurate one :thumbup:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5391687 - 03/12/06 01:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
The essential truth which all religions teach is that you are a part of something greater than yourself.




What?



Humanity, for instance


--------------------


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5391696 - 03/12/06 01:54 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

what dream is it actually?
The dream of g*d ?
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/20/05
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: Silversoul]
    #5391761 - 03/12/06 02:18 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
The essential truth which all religions teach is that you are a part of something greater than yourself.




What?



Humanity, for instance




I can't feel humanity's pain, only the pain inflicted upon my own organism. In fact, it's only through the workings of my own neurons that I am even able to perceive humanity, or any of the other creatures that inhabit my environment. I am part of humanity in the sense that I belong to the same biological class as other human animals like myself, but this doesn't seem to suggest any kind of responsibility, debt, or higher purpose. So, how does my belonging to a certain area of the animal kingdom indicate something greater than myself, when in fact other humans are almost exactly like me due to their biological structure?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5391800 - 03/12/06 02:27 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
I can't feel humanity's pain, only the pain inflicted upon my own organism.



Too bad for you. I can. It's called empathy.


--------------------


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OfflineGomp
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #5391834 - 03/12/06 02:36 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Is ...

Quote:

Fear of losing self <-- THE ...





...

:crazy2: :thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/20/05
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: Silversoul]
    #5391939 - 03/12/06 03:19 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
I can't feel humanity's pain, only the pain inflicted upon my own organism.



Too bad for you. I can. It's called empathy.




Right. I was talking about physical pain though.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5391950 - 03/12/06 03:24 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Why must the pain be physical to be just as real?


--------------------


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: Silversoul]
    #5392008 - 03/12/06 03:45 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Why must the pain be physical to be just as real?




I was using the example of "inflicted pain," in order to demonstrate that the individual organism does not essentially exist in union with the rest of humanity, in a physical sense. We simply coexist. If you watch me stab myself in the hand, you may be disgusted and afraid, and possibly sympathetic to the pain which you can tell I am experiencing, but you will of course remain unharmed as there is no essential sensory connection between us. This is not a question of morality; I'm simply asking how an emotional response such as empathy indicates anything beyond the organism itself.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5392025 - 03/12/06 03:52 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I'm simply asking how an emotional response such as empathy indicates anything beyond the organism itself.



Because it is in our very nature to understand ourselves as part of a group, and rightly so. Our individual self only exists in relation to others.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The worst Enemy we face (according to Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and even Castaneda) [Re: Silversoul]
    #5392034 - 03/12/06 03:58 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

The essential truth which all religions teach is that you are a part of something greater than yourself.

Because it is in our very nature to understand ourselves as part of a group, and rightly so. Our individual self only exists in relation to others.


How is "being part of something greater" religious instead of evolutionary?


Edited by MushmanTheManic (03/12/06 03:59 PM)


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