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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #29721931 -

Enlil said:
So a woman at a political rally meets a candidate, and they talk. She's very pregnant,  fat, and ugly.  She mentions to the candidate how fat and ugly she feels.  He just says,  "not at all... you're beautiful and glowing..."

He did it because to tell the truth would lose him votes.

Jail?



Maybe he's a chubby chaser.  Maybe he has a fetish for pregnant women.  How can I know?  I'd have to have access to some record of him admitting to the lie

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #29721964 -

Enlil said:
So a woman at a political rally meets a candidate, and they talk. She's very pregnant,  fat, and ugly.  She mentions to the candidate how fat and ugly she feels.  He just says,  "not at all... you're beautiful and glowing..."

He did it because to tell the truth would lose him votes.

Jail?



the question is essentially "should telling a harmful lie be punishable in instances where an objective truth is available?"

the problem is qualifying and quantifying the harm to determine whether it is of the character and severity that crosses a line and becomes a punishable expression.  did someone make a statement contrary to the known objective truth on a matter that is in-scope?  were they aware of the truth beforehand?  did the lie cause harm?  is that harm severe enough to warrant punishment? 

it starts to to sound a lot like a libel/slander case to me, along with the associated bullshit, and this is only if we're limiting the thought experiment to matters of objective truth.  I'm sure you can't throw a flaming bag of dogshit without hitting a lawyer that will try to argue the solution to 1+1, so even making allowance for the concept of immutable objective truth in court may be me showing my ass.

that said, I'm sure some guys in suits would love the chance to get paid $500 per hour to argue about whether there is harm found in telling a subjectively ugly pregnant woman that she looks good. 

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #29721986 -

Enlil said:
So a woman at a political rally meets a candidate, and they talk. She's very pregnant,  fat, and ugly.  She mentions to the candidate how fat and ugly she feels.  He just says,  "not at all... you're beautiful and glowing..."

He did it because to tell the truth would lose him votes.

Jail?



Under Welsh law, yes jail. It is a slippery slope for government oppression. There a good reason the Disinformation Governance Board was short lived. But I believe give it a few years people won't be wacthing the government to closely and it will happen.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #29722070 -

Enlil said:
That does not bode well for freedom in Wales.  The power to punish lies is the power to dictate truth.  Once the government has that power, it's only a matter of time before they have complete power over autonomy.



I have to agree, of course. Obviously, many matters-of-fact are highly contentious.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: ballsalsa]
    #29722087 -

ballsalsa said:
Enlil said:
So a woman at a political rally meets a candidate, and they talk. She's very pregnant,  fat, and ugly.  She mentions to the candidate how fat and ugly she feels.  He just says,  "not at all... you're beautiful and glowing..."

He did it because to tell the truth would lose him votes.

Jail?



Maybe he's a chubby chaser.  Maybe he has a fetish for pregnant women.  How can I know?  I'd have to have access to some record of him admitting to the lie



The hypothetical already says why he did it. and that it was a lie.

Besides...you're still talking about proof...We have an administration that will deport citizens bring lawsuits with no evidence, etc.  How do we know that guy isn't going to be arrested, charged, and jailed at least long enough to stop him from taking office?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: dinosaurs]
    #29722090 -

dinosaurs said:
Enlil said:
So a woman at a political rally meets a candidate, and they talk. She's very pregnant,  fat, and ugly.  She mentions to the candidate how fat and ugly she feels.  He just says,  "not at all... you're beautiful and glowing..."

He did it because to tell the truth would lose him votes.

Jail?



the question is essentially "should telling a harmful lie be punishable in instances where an objective truth is available?"

the problem is qualifying and quantifying the harm to determine whether it is of the character and severity that crosses a line and becomes a punishable expression.  did someone make a statement contrary to the known objective truth on a matter that is in-scope?  were they aware of the truth beforehand?  did the lie cause harm?  is that harm severe enough to warrant punishment? 

it starts to to sound a lot like a libel/slander case to me, along with the associated bullshit, and this is only if we're limiting the thought experiment to matters of objective truth.  I'm sure you can't throw a flaming bag of dogshit without hitting a lawyer that will try to argue the solution to 1+1, so even making allowance for the concept of immutable objective truth in court may be me showing my ass.

that said, I'm sure some guys in suits would love the chance to get paid $500 per hour to argue about whether there is harm found in telling a subjectively ugly pregnant woman that she looks good. 



You're right.  Arguing the greys is the bread and butter of attorneys.  One point which I think might not be obvious to non-lawyers is this:

It is axiomatic in a free society that criminal laws must be such that people understand the conduct that is prohibited.

Civil law, we can bounce around the ball all day and make everything a matter of degrees.  In criminal law, however, the prohibited conduct must be defined clearly.  Petty theft might have a dollar cutoff, for instance.  What you're saying about harm, though...that's highly subjective and undefined. 

This is the problem.  Ideas are great, but the devil is always in the details.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #29722120 -

I think the tech oligarchs are waiting for the Democrats to take over next year to do the AI rugpull and crash the economy. They knew the political pendulum was going to swing back the other way. Most people did, though maybe not to the degree that it did.

Every evil you can imagine will be oozing out of the woodwork to destroy civilization and usher in the era of neo-feudalism.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 2
    #29722123 -

I think the rug pull is already getting pulled, but it’s out from under them. More so because the product isn’t delivering. Anybody that uses it a decent amount will find its limits. It can do a lot of stuff but it doesn’t do much of anything well. Big corporations have found that they spent untold sums to get a bunch of useless ai slop and are hitting the brakes on ai purchasing. Where it truly excels is in mining data which was always the case for large amounts of compute. This is why it’s solved some of these super difficult mathematical models. The data was already there among many different human published papers, ai connected the dots. I use Chat all the time and I get way more work done because of it. It’s actually made me more valuable. Not because the work is great but because I am able to accomplish projects I’d never do or have time for as a sole proprietor. But that means I have way more work/sales and am looking to hire a part time employee again. Pretty wild how that works.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: christopera]
    #29722130 -

I think it will crash, and then make a comeback. Like the dotcom crash. The internet didn't go away.

Their machine will crash the global economy, except they get to keep their money only to have it to buy up everything after the crash they caused.

We will literally have to kill them all.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #29722131 -

Ai already basically crashed in China. I don’t think it’s going to bust like dot com did. The big memory producers are going to hit some hard times. GPU’s the same. Maybe the little guy will get a price correction on that front.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #29722136 -

Baby_Hitler said:
I think it will crash, and then make a comeback. Like the dotcom crash. The internet didn't go away.

Their machine will crash the global economy, except they get to keep their money only to have it to buy up everything after the crash they caused.

We will literally have to kill them all.



That sounds like vance investing in buying farm land while the farmers go bankrupt.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: gww]
    #29722140 -

gww said:
Baby_Hitler said:
I think it will crash, and then make a comeback. Like the dotcom crash. The internet didn't go away.

Their machine will crash the global economy, except they get to keep their money only to have it to buy up everything after the crash they caused.

We will literally have to kill them all.



That sounds like vance investing in buying farm land while the farmers go bankrupt.




It's gonna be like what private equity did to Toys R Us, Sears, etc... except this time it's governments.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #29722495 -

Baby_Hitler said:
gww said:
Baby_Hitler said:
I think it will crash, and then make a comeback. Like the dotcom crash. The internet didn't go away.

Their machine will crash the global economy, except they get to keep their money only to have it to buy up everything after the crash they caused.

We will literally have to kill them all.



That sounds like vance investing in buying farm land while the farmers go bankrupt.




It's gonna be like what private equity did to Toys R Us, Sears, etc... except this time it's governments.



Those stores failed because the dot com boom . Brick and mortar stores cost to much, even if you could get all your give shopping needs met in either of those stores.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: vicepope]
    #29722546 -

I thought toysrus failed because it was gutted by Blackstone or something


--------------------
halfass mycology

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: GenericHero]
    #29722551 -



--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: vicepope]
    #29722565 -

I'm not listening to your podcast

:coolcat:

Meow


--------------------
halfass mycology

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: GenericHero]
    #29722637 -

Fair but it's an article so it's really the written word. Still fair.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #29722644 -

Baby_Hitler said:
I think the tech oligarchs are waiting for the Democrats to take over next year to do the AI rugpull and crash the economy. They knew the political pendulum was going to swing back the other way. Most people did, though maybe not to the degree that it did.

Every evil you can imagine will be oozing out of the woodwork to destroy civilization and usher in the era of neo-feudalism.



the problem is that our economy right now, even as shitty as it *feels,* is a house of cards being propped up by the smoke and mirrors AI industry.  there's just over half a dozen AI/semiconductor stocks responsible for most of the stock market gains over the last few years.  remove those, and the picture looks a hell of a lot less prosperous.

it makes me think that there should be an industry-weighted stock index, but all of that kind of shit has to wait until we get the foxes out of the henhouse and return the markets to a rigged game that most people believe in.  right now its a memespec wealth generator for those with some money and no morals.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: GenericHero]
    #29722645 -

GenericHero said:
I'm not listening to your podcast

:coolcat:

Meow



I just scroll past most of its posts.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: dinosaurs]
    #29722648 -

The real risk is that we have a crazy person in office for two more years that does not like people that don't like him and the american people just said we don't like you.  I wonder how many people he is going to kill to prove his power.

Edited by gww (11/09/26 12:51 AM)

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