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Who Is Voting For Trump?
    #21991994 -

Im thinking trump because he would be a great :maximumtrolling: and it would be super funny to watch his insanity unfold. Besides its not like there would be much of a difference either way they're both just puppets on the hands of the true leader. But for real am I the only one voting trump im just doing it because he is funny.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21992535 -

Politicians should be puppets. It's their job in a democracy. Problem is that money is pulling the strings rather people. I'm not voting for Trump but I am enjoying watching the train wreck.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25] * 2
    #21993471 -

Bernie, 2016! :laugh:

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Le_Canard] * 1
    #21993774 -

Bernie sanders 2016!

Voting for trump because he is funny is stupid man. Even if presidents are just puppets, he is a pompous asshole. Bernie sanders is a much better candidate who actually wants to help.

Vote Bernie!


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21994615 -

I find it ironic that Trump goes on and on about how he will be the "greatest jobs president god ever made" or some such delusion of grandeur. Yet Trump uses a bunch of overseas factories and labor to make some of the products he sells. I don't want an obnoxious, know-it-all hypocrite to represent the country.

Quote:
Donald Trump, who has repeatedly accused China of stealing manufacturing jobs from the U.S., acknowledged today that an array of Trump-branded clothes, accessories and other products are made in China. -- ABC News



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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Diploid]
    #21994816 -

:hehehe: Trump is the worst possible presidential candidate I have seen in a long time but that's kinda the point. I almost want to vote for for him just to say I did people would be like "why?". Idk though if trump becomes president ima :rofl2: then move to the Netherlands.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21994901 -

i was never into the whole prom king prom queen mess in highschool, and im not about to start now


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https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: zZZz] * 1
    #21994906 -

The United States is going to shit.

I'd vote for Trump just to grease up that slide to the bottom.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Arctic W. Fox]
    #21995410 -

DAMN What happened to the world you are now voting because it would be funny to see him :huxleyfacepalm:

I have no thoughts to fathom how a person like trump can come to possibly be a president of a country what the fuckety fucking fuck fuck?

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: BoomerMan420]
    #21995853 -

BoomerMan420 said:
DAMN What happened to the world you are now voting because it would be funny to see him :huxleyfacepalm:

I have no thoughts to fathom how a person like trump can come to possibly be a president of a country what the fuckety fucking fuck fuck?


You got it wrong. OP was voting trump for the lulz. Arctic Fox would vote trump to help further turn our country to shit. Both treasonous in my book.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #21996734 -

He would upset the applecarts, that's for sure. Isn't anyone tired of the lying wanker we have now or the retard we had before him? Isn't anyone tired of paying for blowing people up all over the world for no reason? Neither jeb or hill will change anything, we need fresh blood.

It would be good if he made a strong fight, lost  the nomination and backed the winner. That is the best outcome because the media will crucify him just like its doing now. I too doubt that he can win the general election but I'd rather have him than jeb or hill


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21997011 -

The media might be crucifying him but they sure are giving him a lot of pub. I see the media as his greatest ally as there are like 9(?) others that are all but being ignored.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #21997452 -

Trump is stupid but I refuse to vote for Bill Clinton's wife. Honestly she scares me because she is a girl and if she listens to the feminists we will have all kinds of laws on what men can and cant do. Seriously she may make laws like if a guy offends a girl he can get arrested. Plus she is trying to ban extended clips on guns (which includes AR-15s something I own). Plus she wont even help legalize weed. Like she is trying to fuck with my 3 favorite things weed guns and me hitting on girls. That shit don't fly for me man.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21997503 -

thewanderer25 said:
Honestly she scares me because she is a girl


Your scared of girls?  She scares the hell out of me too. Haven't been scared of girls ..well never really. And have you seen Hilary lately? far from a girl. closer to a granny.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #21997652 -

Not all girls scare me just feminists that want to rule the men. Idk though she might be a good president its just in my head im picturing the feminists.
I mean feminists just piss me off because they complain that they don't have equal rights but they want more rights than men.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21997721 -

Not all feminists, and there will always be extremists. Just watched the video. Not really fair to label the mentally ill as feminist. I'll vote for Hillary if I have to but I sure as hell don't want to. I will say that on paper. Her resume in a way makes her the most qualified for the job.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #21997774 -

If u don't like any of the candidates do not vote, and encourage others to do the same. Wait till tbey get some better candidates, I mean, wuts the rush?.. will our nation fall without a president?..

I'm willing to bet things will stay the same regardless


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https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: zZZz]
    #21997867 -

No. There is too much at steak and as bad as Hilary is, she beats the alternative. "Wait till they get some better candidates"? I'm not sure you understand(or maybe I don't) but someone is going to be elected. And I'm not sure who "they" is. And the election for the most powerful person in the world is not going to wait for me and whoever I encourage not to vote. The better candidate is Bernie Sanders and if he does not win the primary it might be because we did not pick him to run. Not "they" did not pick him.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #21997930 -

Im just sayin, let's find out once and for all whether the presidents are chosen with or without our consent

I mean, if we have no choice In the matter doesnt that make the president not the most powerful man in the country?

Which would mean we're negotiating with the middle man, and not the man himself.


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https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #21998001 -

Quote:
Bernie sanders is a much better candidate who actually wants to help.


Help drive us further into insolvency?


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21998127 -

thewanderer25 said:
Seriously she may make laws like if a guy offends a girl he can get arrested.


Put that worry to rest. Only Congress can make laws. The President can sign off on it or veto it, but Congress can override a veto if enough vote to do so.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21998825 -

LC, actually the current occupant has been making his own laws for a while. Its unconstitutional but he brags that he has a pen and a phone...

If you don't like any of the major candidates vote third party to break the duopoly.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21999914 -

Hillary hasn't won the Democratic nomination yet. If it's Trump vs bernie, the choice is obviously Bernie.

The only thing I like about Trump is the fact that his greatest fear is people not liking him. He may actually do what the people want, because he's scared of being disliked.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21999968 -

Stonehenge said:
If you don't like any of the major candidates vote third party to break the duopoly.


I'm all for breaking this duopoly but there will never be(at least not this election) enough votes to do it. We'd need someone running from a third party that enough people know and will vote for. It would take someone with enough money to front their own campaign. Not that I think Trump would make a good Pres or that I'd ever vote for him but he is the guy who should probably be running third party.
Edit to add that "statement votes" are truly votes "thrown away"
Peace
Spock

Edited by spock (07/26/15 01:21 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #21999990 -

spock said:
Stonehenge said:
If you don't like any of the major candidates vote third party to break the duopoly.


I'm all for breaking this duopoly but there will never be(at least not this election) enough votes to do it. We'd need someone running from a third party that enough people know and will vote for. It would take someone with enough money to front their own campaign. Not that I think Trump would make a good Pres or that I'd ever vote for him but he is the guy who should probably be running third party.
Edit to add that "statement votes" are truly votes "thrown away"
Peace
Spock


I disagree. I believe you should vote how you feel, not 'play it safe'. Playing it safe is how we always end up compromising for shitty candidates. If you vote Green party, at least you're making a statement that you care about the environment, and to win your vote in the future, candidates may be more inclined to express environmental concerns.

In order for a 3rd party candidate to win, you'd have to establish a grass roots movement like the tea party, but unlike the tea party, you'd have to have policies that the general public agreed with. This country tends to be liberal on almost every issue. A liberal 3rd party movement would be far more successful than the tea party. Liberal America is far less organized, unfortunately, as demonstrated by the occupy movement.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #22000249 -

>I'm all for breaking this duopoly but there will never be(at least not this election) enough votes to do it.

That is loser talk pushed by the duopoly to convince people not to get off the system and elect someone honest. For once woof is right.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22000357 -

Not loser talk. Just reality. There are other partys out there that get some votes. How's that working for them? Too much at stake. Dems are far from perfect but in my lifetime I have seen reps dig us into holes that are really coming close to breaking us. I could dream(and I do) but the reality of our current system is reality. I'm all for breaking the system if it could realistically happen and if someone was out there running that could do it. I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. I agree that 2 party system sucks but throwing away votes is not how to fix it. Someone needs to run 3rd party that has a chance. Trump or Bernie really could be(should be) the ones running 3rd party. They are not for a reason. Reality.
Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock] * 1
    #22000375 -

Trump has already said that if he loses the nomination he will run 3rd party. If Trump runs 3rd party, I think Bernie should run 3rd party also. That would split the vote on both sides, and it would still be a fair matchup. In fact, it would be a much more honest election.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22000503 -

Quote:
Trump has already said that if he loses the nomination he will run 3rd party.


He said on Morning Joe last week that he would not run as a 3rd party candidate if he lost the nomination. Only if he was treated "unfairly" by the GOP.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Diploid]
    #22000564 -

Diploid said:
I find it ironic that Trump goes on and on about how he will be the "greatest jobs president god ever made" or some such delusion of grandeur. Yet Trump uses a bunch of overseas factories and labor to make some of the products he sells. I don't want an obnoxious, know-it-all hypocrite to represent the country.

Quote:
Donald Trump, who has repeatedly accused China of stealing manufacturing jobs from the U.S., acknowledged today that an array of Trump-branded clothes, accessories and other products are made in China. -- ABC News



You clearly haven't seen a Trump speech.

He fully admits it, he explained why numerous times and he hates the fact that he doesn't have a choice to go to China because the US can't compete against them


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Patlal]
    #22001162 -

The bigger question here... who buys 'Trump' branded clothes!?! lmao


(Please don't answer this question Patlal)


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/26/15 06:19 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22002584 -

hmm mm Trump is an idiot but nobody else is much better the Bernie guy would take my guns and a third party will never get into office. But Trump is still an idiot and me trolling the country just seems like a waste of a good vote. But then again the only ones I like are the librarians but as I said their is zero hope they get elected. :mad: If it comes to Hillary vs Trump im going for Trump but if its the Bernie guy im going to see what he has to say about marijuana ill trade my guns for weed any day :getstoned:


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22002614 -

Your guns won't be taken. Stock up on clips though. Seriously as far left that I am. damn near red. I don't own guns but if I wanted I think I should be able to own nukes. All these assholes shooting up unarmed civilians looks bad. But. Land of the free and home of the Brave. You can't have freedom without bravery. And weed. I don't really smoke weed anymore. Still like it but just does not fit my lifestyle right now.
Live free. Be brave. Watch out for those that sell fear. Trump only sells fear.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22002624 -

Bernie says the war on drugs is a 'disaster'... pretty sure he's not a fan. He doesn't believe anyone should go to jail over marijuana.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22002695 -

He also has said that he'd like to see how marijuana legalization plays out in states that have legalized it. He's pro for medical marijuana, though. And he's for decriminalization.

I mean, saying you wanna see how legalizing weed effects the states that have it legal is probably the most reasonable choice.

Also, based on his past voting in the senate, and the state he represented, he doesn't really support gun control. Vermont has really lax gun laws. Bernie sanders voted against the Brady Act in 1993, which would restrict guns to felons and required mandated background checks. But recently he has endorsed moderate gun control.

He has even said after the Sandy Hook shooting that "if you passed the strongest gun control legislation tomorrow, I don’t think it will have a profound effect on the tragedies we have seen."

Also he's not running third party, he's trying to be the democrat nominee.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22002726 -

Achillita said:
He has even said after the Sandy Hook shooting that "if you passed the strongest gun control legislation tomorrow, I don’t think it will have a profound effect on the tragedies we have seen."

Also he's not running third party, he's trying to be the democrat nominee.


Pandora was let out the box off rip. The guns are out there. Whatcha gonna do? Go door to door? What he said is(I think)true.
Why would he run third party? He has a much better chance running democrat.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #22003873 -

Man we need shrooms LSD weed and cocaine 100% legal why its not no one knows.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22003912 -

Well, I can promise you that cocaine being legalized is most likely not gonna happen. Abusing cocaine causes a lot of problems, and for most people that outweighs the high.

Psychedelics are illegal because of fear mongering and idiots. Not for actually any sort of scientific proof or high possibility of a debilitating addiction.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22003922 -

Ah it doesn't matter im making my own cocaine.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22016041 -

1st choice Rand
2nd Ted
3rd Donald


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22016420 -

DottoreWolfe said:
1st choice Rand
2nd Ted
3rd Donald


1st choice -> Bernie Sanders

          Or

          Bust

Ted Cruz and Donald are both fuckin chumps.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22020930 -

Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
1st choice Rand
2nd Ted
3rd Donald


1st choice -> Bernie Sanders

          Or

          Bust

Ted Cruz and Donald are both fuckin chumps.


Dude Bernie Sanders is a socialist, you want higher taxes? You think domestic businesses and local start ups should pay more? One common definition of communism is  that it is just an extreme form of socialism. Communism in my eyes is akin to facism (I mean look at every single communist contury which ever existed). I would never vote to raise my taxes, I would never vote to raise anyones taxes (our taxes are higher than communist and present day Russia, as well as present day china). I would never vote for socialism because socialism is a country en route to communism (in my opinon). I love the 2nd amendment and will die defending it, but Bernie Sanders is rated F by the NRA indicating he is very in favour of tight gun control (limiting my ability to defend self from threats foreign and domestic, also my ability to hunt is a necessity). Bernie Sanders wanting to raise taxes, voted to raise congressional pay, despite the fact that we are so in debt that he feels we should raise the already unjust tax rate on U.S. citizens. I hope you realize that Bernie Sanders is really actually screwing Clinton over big time, just like Ron Paul did with Mitt Romney (causing Obama to win, albeit unintentionally), Bernie Sanders is too splitting the ticket, but with him it's a much stronger factor because he is running independent pulling more votes from Hillary (he's not pulling too many republican or tea-party votes). I'm happy you want Bernie Sanders to win, I've been super happy since I found  that he was a welfare loving socialist (soontobe commie), I hope he pulls attracts millions of democrats, this steals away what were votes for Hillary, giving the republican candidate an easy win. :lol:


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22021199 -

Communism or bust!  Go Bernie!


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22021221 -

Says the guy with a swastika as his profile pic...

Anyway, it's been shown he ISN'T for gun control. He want's slight regulations. He even voted against a bill in 1993 that restricted guns for felons. Vermont(the state he was senator to) has really lax gun laws too.

He wants free health care, and it never said ANYWHERE that he wants to raise the taxes on the middle class. He wants to stop giving corporations tax breaks, which the US government has been doing. 25% of all corporations don't pay taxes in the US.

Also, he isn't running as independent. He's trying to get the democratic nominee.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22021266 -

Says the guy with the swastika? You probably think it's a Nazi swastika...did you notice that it looks different than a regular Nazi swastika? Well that's because my avatar is an ancient symbol used in Indian religions that represents harmony, oneness, love and peace. He is a socialist, period. My mother is upper middle class she pays about 50% of her income in tax, after her student loans, car payments, etc. all she has is a few hundred dollars (despite the fact that she makes well into 6 figures. Taxes are ludicrous high. I'm not going to debate politics with you. He is a socialist, he said it himself...socialism is one step away from communism. Trust me his socialist views are to the left of Hillary, he won't get enough votes to secure the nomination. He'll split the ticket and the GOP will have the white house and the congress. Why don't you listen to a good Donald Trump speech (look up 30-60 minute one from last few weeks on youtube), he has some really great ideas regarding foreign policy, he wants to legalize cannabis, kick out law breaking illegals, he wants to restore the constitution and his economic policy ideas are great, especially regarding Mexico and Asia. I am sure if you actually sat there with a blunt and an open mind you would realize how good some of his ideas are.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


Edited by DottoreWolfe (07/30/15 06:11 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22021270 -

Achillita said:
He wants free health care, and it never said ANYWHERE that he wants to raise the taxes on the middle class. He wants to stop giving corporations tax breaks, which the US government has been doing. 25% of all corporations don't pay taxes in the US.

Also, he isn't running as independent. He's trying to get the democratic nominee.


This.
Corporations getting tax breaks is what is choking the hell out of our country. Then they pay people off to get everyone riled up about Mexicans or old people. There is nothing wrong with taxes. Death and Taxes. It's gonna happen. Who pays how much in taxes and if the $ is helping people is what is important.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22021298 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Says the guy with the swastika? You probably think it's a Nazi swastika...did you notice that it looks different than a regular Nazi swastika?


You know how that symbol is interpreted by most people.  If I say fuck you you're a fucking tool.  And then I'm like, did you notice I'm a carpenter sex addict?  Tools and fucking are good to me so that was actually a compliment?

Seriously though, you're a fucking tool.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22021401 -

paperbackwriter said:
DottoreWolfe said:
Says the guy with the swastika? You probably think it's a Nazi swastika...did you notice that it looks different than a regular Nazi swastika?


You know how that symbol is interpreted by most people.  If I say fuck you you're a fucking tool.  And then I'm like, did you notice I'm a carpenter sex addict?  Tools and fucking are good to me so that was actually a compliment?

Seriously though, you're a fucking tool.



Why because I want to use a symbol of my religion that has been used for the thousands of years? Should I just stop using this symbol because most Westerners don't know what the symbol really means? This symbol is built in new temples and ancient ones alike. I couldn't care less what you think about me. But to call me a fucking tool was unnecessary. I'm pretty sure outbursts like that can get you banned. I am a good person, you are the one attacking me. One of the reasons you probably associate negativity with the Nazi swastika is because they attacked the beliefs of others...yet here you are attacking my beliefs solely because of your lack of knowledge. It's not my fault most people don't know what the symbol means, I am not going to change the symbols I use to express myself because other people lack the knowledge to truly understand what it means.


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22021424 -

Dude the nazis stole it as a symbol of hate on their religion. Its actually a religious symbol kinda like the cross. If you dont like that avatar then the nazis did what they intended they turned the religious symbols into something that people dont like. Seriously guys dont let the nazis win.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22021433 -

The swastika is a design that is in nearly every at one point or another. But symbols can change meaning, and since WWII, the swastika has been stigmatized because it was used to represent a force of hate.

There are different designs that many people use to have a swastika to not resemble the nazi's design. Tons of different designs.

Not to be a dick and all, but you're acting kinda pretentious. I practice shamanism, and I deal with shit questions quite often.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22021439 -

I don't think this forum is moderated.  So I doubt I'll get banned.

Regardless of how the symbol has been used for any length of time and regardless of your religious preferences the symbol was also used in a very hateful way.

You're basically making the same argument the confederate flag people used.  To me it's a symbol of this.  Well..  most people say it like this.

Tool to me means mushrooms.  A tool I use to expand my mind.  It's still offensive to call people tools right?  You're saying I can get banned for it right?

We both can recognize how someone could be offended by a symbol.  In this case T-O-O-L.  In your case the swastika.

Compassion is about recognizing other people's boundaries and respecting them.

I think that's an eastern religion thing too (compassion).


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22021470 -

thewanderer25 said:
Dude the nazis stole it as a symbol of hate on their religion. Its actually a religious symbol kinda like the cross.


Most here know that. But. It's a fucking swastika. Symbols are just that, symbols. They change meaning sometime. It's a fucking swastika.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22021479 -

/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007453 dont let the nazis win man.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22021488 -

thewanderer25 said:
/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007453 dont let the nazis win man.



caapi caapi caapi


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22021549 -

paperbackwriter said:
I don't think this forum is moderated.  So I doubt I'll get banned.



I don't think it is either.
Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22021601 -

Seriously though comparing it to the confederate flag is stupid because this symbol was used in religion thousands of years before hitler was born but the confederate flag only started getting used when the confederates made it. Dont let that crazy douchebag hitler turn a symbol of thousands of years of peace and good fortune into something negative. Im just saying its been around way longer than hitler's miserable existence has and making it negative would be what the bastard wanted. The confederate flag was made and used at the start (not a couple thousand years later) to scare black people and say the south wants slaves so comparing it the nazi simbole (which its not anyways the nazis had it crocked and hindus have it like this ) so serusly just dont hate on a symbole of rilgion because some nutjob changed its meaning into something negtive. And this is hindu and this is nazi thier two difrent things


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22021682 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
1st choice Rand
2nd Ted
3rd Donald


1st choice -> Bernie Sanders

          Or

          Bust

Ted Cruz and Donald are both fuckin chumps.


Dude Bernie Sanders is a socialist, you want higher taxes? You think domestic businesses and local start ups should pay more? One common definition of communism is  that it is just an extreme form of socialism. Communism in my eyes is akin to facism (I mean look at every single communist contury which ever existed). I would never vote to raise my taxes, I would never vote to raise anyones taxes (our taxes are higher than communist and present day Russia, as well as present day china). I would never vote for socialism because socialism is a country en route to communism (in my opinon). I love the 2nd amendment and will die defending it, but Bernie Sanders is rated F by the NRA indicating he is very in favour of tight gun control (limiting my ability to defend self from threats foreign and domestic, also my ability to hunt is a necessity). Bernie Sanders wanting to raise taxes, voted to raise congressional pay, despite the fact that we are so in debt that he feels we should raise the already unjust tax rate on U.S. citizens. I hope you realize that Bernie Sanders is really actually screwing Clinton over big time, just like Ron Paul did with Mitt Romney (causing Obama to win, albeit unintentionally), Bernie Sanders is too splitting the ticket, but with him it's a much stronger factor because he is running independent pulling more votes from Hillary (he's not pulling too many republican or tea-party votes). I'm happy you want Bernie Sanders to win, I've been super happy since I found  that he was a welfare loving socialist (soontobe commie), I hope he pulls attracts millions of democrats, this steals away what were votes for Hillary, giving the republican candidate an easy win. :lol:


Bernie isn't running as an independent. Bernie isn't a 'commie', and he's hardly even a Socialist. I am a Socialist. I find most of your Libertarian philosophy utterly detestible. By the way, Bernie pulled his highest numbers at a rally in Arizona, of all places. The highest of any candidate yet.

Republicans will not take the whitehouse. Bernie might, but no Republican will. Your precious Donald Trump has already stated he will run 3rd party if he doesn't win the nomination, so I'll enjoy that.

Look, you clearly don't know fuckall about Socialism. I've explained it several times on these forums, and I don't have the patience to do it again.

What the fuck does 'restore the constitution' even mean, btw? The constitution is perfectly intact, and if you're looking for someone to defend the constitution, you should look to the left. Its democrats who stand for personal liberties like gay rights and womens rights. Right-wingers just yap about it while they spy on you, torture people, and start illegal wars of aggression.

As far as the swaztika, I don't have anything against you using it, but you should be aware of what most people see when they see that symbol, and not be offended when they think you're a neonazi. I have a feeling you use it to insight those feelings so you can run around calling other people ignorant.

Also, these forums are somewhat moderated by enlil. Some silly assholes even report eachother to the actual political forum moderators. I think we can all try really hard to be grownups and not call eachother names, though I certainly have the urge to occasionally myself. Especially when the racist right starts hating on people of different skin color.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/30/15 08:02 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22021798 -

We can all be grown ups and not name call?

:justno:


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22021809 -

Edited. Better?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22021820 -

Haha yeah


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22021824 -

paperbackwriter said:
I don't think this forum is moderated.  So I doubt I'll get banned.

Regardless of how the symbol has been used for any length of time and regardless of your religious preferences the symbol was also used in a very hateful way.

You're basically making the same argument the confederate flag people used.  To me it's a symbol of this.  Well..  most people say it like this.

Tool to me means mushrooms.  A tool I use to expand my mind.  It's still offensive to call people tools right?  You're saying I can get banned for it right?

We both can recognize how someone could be offended by a symbol.  In this case T-O-O-L.  In your case the swastika.

Compassion is about recognizing other people's boundaries and respecting them.

I think that's an eastern religion thing too (compassion).




I support the confederate flag, I wear it weekly, I support my religious swastika and I won't back down in my right to use it. The cross may be offensive to some people, like gays or adulterers because the bible calls them abominations and calls for stonings, etc. Of course compassion is key, but my boundries regarding that symbol and yours just are so far apart there is no compromise possible. You should have compassion for my wearing it for religious purposes. I don't think its the symbol itself, but how it is used. Like you said fucking tool and the way you said it makes tool mean something bad. When KKK light cross and say death to blacks, that might make cross bad. But when I use my swastika or my confederate flag, I am not preaching hate, rather just the opposite, I used it as a symbol of love, I will till I die, my kids will surely use it and their kids after them. I just hope that one day I won't be attacked because of others' lack of knowledge or contempt for a religiothat comparatively is an S vs Z (it's not by any definition identical), fo
Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
1st choice Rand
2nd Ted
3rd Donald


1st choice -> Bernie Sanders

          Or

          Bust

Ted Cruz and Donald are both fuckin chumps.


Dude Bernie Sanders is a socialist, you want higher taxes? You think domestic businesses and local start ups should pay more? One common definition of communism is  that it is just an extreme form of socialism. Communism in my eyes is akin to facism (I mean look at every single communist contury which ever existed). I would never vote to raise my taxes, I would never vote to raise anyones taxes (our taxes are higher than communist and present day Russia, as well as present day china). I would never vote for socialism because socialism is a country en route to communism (in my opinon). I love the 2nd amendment and will die defending it, but Bernie Sanders is rated F by the NRA indicating he is very in favour of tight gun control (limiting my ability to defend self from threats foreign and domestic, also my ability to hunt is a necessity). Bernie Sanders wanting to raise taxes, voted to raise congressional pay, despite the fact that we are so in debt that he feels we should raise the already unjust tax rate on U.S. citizens. I hope you realize that Bernie Sanders is really actually screwing Clinton over big time, just like Ron Paul did with Mitt Romney (causing Obama to win, albeit unintentionally), Bernie Sanders is too splitting the ticket, but with him it's a much stronger factor because he is running independent pulling more votes from Hillary (he's not pulling too many republican or tea-party votes). I'm happy you want Bernie Sanders to win, I've been super happy since I found  that he was a welfare loving socialist (soontobe commie), I hope he pulls attracts millions of democrats, this steals away what were votes for Hillary, giving the republican candidate an easy win. :lol:


Bernie isn't running as an independent. Bernie isn't a 'commie', and he's hardly even a Socialist. I am a Socialist. I find most of your Libertarian philosophy utterly detestible. By the way, Bernie pulled his highest numbers at a rally in Arizona. The highest of any candidate yet.

Republicans will not take the whitehouse. Bernie might, but no Republican will. Your precious Donald Trump has already stated he will run 3rd party if he doesn't win the nomination, so I'll enjoy that.

Look, you clearly don't know fuckall about Socialism. I've explained it several times on these forums, and I don't have the patience to do it again.

What the fuck does 'restore the constitution' even mean, btw? The constitution is perfectly intact, and if you're looking for someone to defend the constitution, you should look to he left. Its democrats who stand for personal liberties like gay rights and womens rights. Right-wingers just yap about it while they spy on you, torture people, and start illegal wars of aggression.



Actually Donald said live on Michael Savage he would not run as an independent because he didn't want to split the ticket. You say look to the left for defence of the constitution when Rand Paul, Ron Paul, Gary Johnson and many many others on the right have been sexual libertarians since the start. Obama authorised use of drones on US citizens and on US soil despite the rights pleas, Rand Paul (republican candidate) ended the provisions of the patriot act just a few months back which courts ruled unconstitutional on multiple accounts, but Obama failed to end it (and yeah I know Bush initiated the patriot act via exec. order, but we can all admit Bush did some dumb shit). Obama refuses to push for cannabis legalization, decriminalization or rescheduling these laws in turn end up to over 30% of the entire prison system. Obama used cannabis yet laughs Hahah "if more states continue on this path than maybe someday...", but if he got caught smoking even one time he would have a hard time holding a job at Lowes let alone the presidency, that's disgusting. Rand supports making it federal law to allow states to decide for selves and Trump support full legalization. Democrats try to do everything they can to take my firearms from me, do you know what an assault rifle is? I'll attach a picture. "...the right to bear arms shall not be infringed upon". Yet here democrats go infringing every chance they get, Obama and Feinstein's attempt to ban assault weapons almost ended in civil war with people flying flags that said "come and take it". Your crazy right-wingers spy? Obama had the option to end the patriot act for almost 7 years (because it was an executive order), yet it took a tea partier like Paul to finally stop the illegal bulk data collection Obama did nothing about for years. I know what socialism is buddy, it's not capitalism, it's not the economy of the U.S. The cold war was fought over socialism vs capitalism, not communism vs capitalism. The CCCP ("USSR") is Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, not communists. America has shown time and time again that we don't want socialism, if Obama was an open socialist he would never have won, because we are a capitalistic society. The reason democrats won the white house last time is because the came off as the "common sense" "party of the people", but socialist views always come off slightly too far to the left for most democrats. You say blue will be in the white house again, I know you are wrong, Bernie Sanders splitting the ticket really sealed the deal. After 2016 election we will re open this thread and see who was right :p

These pics below just show the difference between assault and non assault weapons... they are the exact same guns with basically different casings...that's it...so why were they trying to take away people's hunting rifles again?


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22021835 -

I want the drug war to end too.

I also want climate change acknowledged.  Of the two the later is more important imo.

In short, Rand Paul can lick my chode.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22021970 -

Trump is for full legalization of pot? He's got my vote. You think obumble is ever going to do it? Not a chance. Think hill+billy is going to do it? Not a chance, the pharm industry already has her in their pocket. Trump is our only hope for the near future.

I can't believe I hear people, supposedly rational people saying they prefer a puppet over a real person. Say it out loud and tell me it doesn't sound kookoo? The oligarchy and assorted power holders have not been doing us well. We are worse off than ever in many ways. Employment remains at long time lows and much of that is part time work. On the horizon, storm clouds gather, happy days like these may go away for a while.

And you want more of the same??? More of the same bunch that put us into this mess? Another hand picked puppet like hill or jeb? A joke is that the definition of insanity is to keep on doing the same things over and over hoping for a different outcome.

Someone tell me they are joking?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22021984 -

paperbackwriter said:
I want the drug war to end too.

I also want climate change acknowledged.  Of the two the later is more important imo.

In short, Rand Paul can lick my chode.



Finally something we can agree on...climate change, obviously it's happening look at any of the images of ice caps over the years, especially in Northern Hemisphere, it's melting crazy fast too. I don't know why some (not all) republicans chose to ignore the empirical evidence.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22022251 -

Man I want it all to be legal guns money drugs cheap women. Like the day I can snort a line of coke of a prostitute's ass with my loaded ak-47 in public is the day our country beats amsterdam in the best country. I want it legal man everything that doesn't hurt others like I think it all should be legal. Im sooo fucking high dough :stoned:


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22022359 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Actually Donald said live on Michael Savage he would not run as an independent because he didn't want to split the ticket. You say look to the left for defence of the constitution when Rand Paul, Ron Paul, Gary Johnson and many many others on the right have been sexual libertarians since the start.


When Ron Paul was running, all of the other Republican candidates literally mocked him for being a 'constitutionalist'. That's a clear demonstration of who does and doesn't give a flying fuck about the constitution.

Quote:
Obama authorised use of drones on US citizens and on US soil despite the rights pleas, Rand Paul (republican candidate) ended the provisions of the patriot act just a few months back which courts ruled unconstitutional on multiple accounts, but Obama failed to end it (and yeah I know Bush initiated the patriot act via exec. order, but we can all admit Bush did some dumb shit).


So you don't endorse Bush? That's great, I don't endorse Obama, and there were plenty on the left who were dead set against the patriot act, and NSA spying.

Quote:
Obama refuses to push for cannabis legalization, decriminalization or rescheduling these laws in turn end up to over 30% of the entire prison system.


Reagan was the war on drugs warrior, and no other president has done anything to stop it either. What is your point? Bernie Sanders says we should look at the data regarding the effects of legalization in the states where it has been legalized. I think that's the most sensible approach one could take.

Quote:
Democrats try to do everything they can to take my firearms from me, do you know what an assault rifle is? I'll attach a picture. "...the right to bear arms shall not be infringed upon". Yet here democrats go infringing every chance they get, Obama and Feinstein's attempt to ban assault weapons almost ended in civil war with people flying flags that said "come and take it".


I think it's perfectly reasonable not to allow violent criminals and schizophrenics to own assault weapons.

Quote:
Your crazy right-wingers spy? Obama had the option to end the patriot act for almost 7 years (because it was an executive order), yet it took a tea partier like Paul to finally stop the illegal bulk data collection Obama did nothing about for years.


I like that you're pretending Rand Paul did it alone! Apparently you've never heard of Alan Grayson or Bernie Sanders. Also, again, it was a right winger who started the patriot act. If you want to play like I endorse everything Obama (Who I consider every bit as right wing as anyone else), then I will assume you endorse Bush.

Quote:
I know what socialism is buddy, it's not capitalism, it's not the economy of the U.S. The cold war was fought over socialism vs capitalism, not communism vs capitalism. The CCCP ("USSR") is Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, not communists. America has shown time and time again that we don't want socialism, if Obama was an open socialist he would never have won, because we are a capitalistic society.


Americans don't want Socialism? 36% of Americans are perfectly fine with that word! :smile:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/125645/socialism-viewed-positively-americans.aspx

In fact, Capitalism is becoming the real dirty word in American politics. Right wing politicians have even been advised not to use the word 'capitalism', because it will hurt them in the polls. Socialism is more than just 'not capitalism', it is the result of a fine critique of capitalism by Marx and Engels. Interestingly enough, most of what Marx and Engels predicted about Capitalism has come true, and we're finally starting to see it's incredibly ugly side. Capitalism is great for emerging markets. When people say Socialism, they are not referring to communist dictatorships like Russia, China, or Cuba. There are two ways that Socialism has traditionally arisen in the world, in the past. Either a violent revolution, in which a dictator is put in place, or democratically like many European countries today. Germany (today) and many Nordic countries are better examples of the Socialism Bernie Sanders is referring to, and some of them are the strongest economies in Europe. Obama is not a Socialist, and to even infer such a thing is a clear demonstration that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Creating Social programs does not make you a Socialist. Right wing extremists like to exaggerate, and that's why many right wingers don't know what the fuck anything even means anymore, as it has all lost meaning.

Quote:
The reason democrats won the white house last time is because the came off as the "common sense" "party of the people", but socialist views always come off slightly too far to the left for most democrats. You say blue will be in the white house again, I know you are wrong, Bernie Sanders splitting the ticket really sealed the deal. After 2016 election we will re open this thread and see who was right :p


As I said, Bernie Sanders didn't split the ticket. Do you politics, bro? Mark my words, we will have a Dem in the white house again. A Socialist is far preferable to the American public than a billionaire, I promise you! People are tired of money in politics. They are tired of wealthy people buying elections, this is a bi-partisan issue, and you think we should put a billionaire in the oval office! lmao

By the way, Bernie Sanders is beating all of the Republican candidates in a nationwide poll.
http://crooksandliars.com/2015/07/cnn-poll-bernie-sanders-leads-all


Quote:
These pics below just show the difference between assault and non assault weapons... they are the exact same guns with basically different casings...that's it...so why were they trying to take away people's hunting rifles again?


Nobody is trying to take away rifles. They just wouldn't sell them anymore. There is no way to confiscate all of the assault rifles in America, and though there may be one or two politicians out there who would like to, it will not happen, and the vast majority don't even want it to. Stop listening to fear mongers, nobody is taking your fucking guns.

I find it funny how you right wingers are always running around talking about your gun rights to 'defend yourself against tyrany', however, you have no problem with the fact that police can drive tanks down city streets. How do you intend to defend against that? Alan Grayson (A democrat) created a bill that would prevent police from having nuclear weapons, armored tanks, and ballistic missiles. Right wingers shot it down. Apparently they thought it was unreasonable.

Furthermore, since you're such a fan of the constitution, I feel it is pertinent for you to understand the mindset of those who wrote it. It is not above criticism, and should not be viewed as some sort of holy document, though it is certainly deserving of our overall respect.

Quote:
Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the arc of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. I knew that age well; I belonged to it, and labored with it. It deserved well of its country. It was very like the present, but without the experience of the present; and forty years of experience in government is worth a century of book-reading; and this they would say themselves, were they to rise from the dead. I am certainly not an advocate for frequent and untried changes in laws and constitutions. I think moderate imperfections had better be borne with; because, when once known, we accommodate ourselves to them, and find practical means of correcting their ill effects. But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind.  As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times.

- T. Jefferson


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/30/15 10:39 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22022426 -

DottoreWolfe said:
paperbackwriter said:
I want the drug war to end too.

I also want climate change acknowledged.  Of the two the later is more important imo.

In short, Rand Paul can lick my chode.



Finally something we can agree on...climate change, obviously it's happening look at any of the images of ice caps over the years, especially in Northern Hemisphere, it's melting crazy fast too. I don't know why some (not all) republicans chose to ignore the empirical evidence.


It's because Republicans serve big business, and not the people. They are the party of the wealthy class, clearly. They don't give a fuck about us. Interestingly enough, they are also the party with a billionaire leading the way right now!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22023334 -

Apparently the forum is moderated.  I received a warning last night for my drunken ramblings.

Sorry for being a tool myself.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22024444 -

paperbackwriter said:
Apparently the forum is moderated.  I received a warning last night for my drunken ramblings.

Sorry for being a tool myself.


One of the reasons I quit drinking ;-)

The moderators only give out warnings if someone reports you to them. Apparently someone was a bit butthurt. If they actually hung around, I would think they would be passing out warnings left and right for all the racist shit on this forum.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22024493 -

Yeah, can't say I'm a huge fan.  Was running low on weed though.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22025126 -

Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
paperbackwriter said:
I want the drug war to end too.

I also want climate change acknowledged.  Of the two the later is more important imo.

In short, Rand Paul can lick my chode.



Finally something we can agree on...climate change, obviously it's happening look at any of the images of ice caps over the years, especially in Northern Hemisphere, it's melting crazy fast too. I don't know why some (not all) republicans chose to ignore the empirical evidence.


It's because Republicans serve big business, and not the people. They are the party of the wealthy class, clearly. They don't give a fuck about us. Interestingly enough, they are also the party with a billionaire leading the way right now!


You say republicans are all these bad things and that Obama is a right winger (he is the opposite of a right winger). By not selling guns anymore, you are basically taking all guns away over a period of time, which isn't right. You support them not selling guns? that means in a few hundred years there will be no more guns LEGALLY owned in the US. This country will split in two before we become a socialist nation, how can you say Bernie Sanders wont split the ticket...lol You say he is leading Republicans, maybe in a poll of Bernie Sanders V. Republicans, but in an election where its Democrats VS. Independents VS. Republicans he is very far behind, and he is even further behind attaining the nomination. Also above you spoke like Trump is undoubtedly the nominee he has only been polling well as of late, but prior Cruz, Walker, Rubio, Paul, Bush all each went to the top of polls and fell. The election is a long ways away. I really really don't think that Sanders, a socialist, who isn't even running as a democrat, will win...but, to each his own. Like I said we will re open this thread after the election. Also you say Paul didn't end patriot act alone, yeah your right be he lead the coalition, he was the one who did a filibuster, he is the one the blocked the extension of patriot act. Why don't you check out this Rand Paul speech, if honestly still feel the way you do after watching than I can understand, but you have to at least listen to the other side before you call us party of the rich, etc. I support a "leave me alone" philosophy and high taxes and gun control oppose this notion in every way.
Just watch this one speech before you hate on my beliefs for another day. I am sure you can spare a few minutes to understand what you seem to despise so much.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22025155 -

DottoreWolfe said:
You say republicans are all these bad things and that Obama is a right winger (he is the opposite of a right winger).


I'm not going to call Obama a right winger although I probably have before. That is the biggest problem I've had with him. Being too far to the right.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #22025175 -

spock said:
DottoreWolfe said:
You say republicans are all these bad things and that Obama is a right winger (he is the opposite of a right winger).


I'm not going to call Obama a right winger although I probably have before. That is the biggest problem I've had with him. Being too far to the right.

Peace
Spock



Too left for me


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22025214 -

Obumble is a mongrel mix of bad right wing ideas and bad left wing ideas. He took the worst of each extreme and incorporated them.

After he leaves office watch him rake in the bucks doing bogus speeches for big money. That's how they do it now, no more bags of cash in the middle of the night, they wait till he's out and give him money. Reagan did the same thing, got $2M for a speech in japan which of course had nothing to do with him giving them most favored nation status. :rolleyes:

Obumble will do the same, hill+billy do it too, plus using their fake charity to launder bribes. The media must have blinders on to not notice the many scandals that bitch has.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22025354 -

Once again, for the third time, Sanders isn't running independent. He is running as a DEMOCRAT! Sanders is running as a Democrat. Sanders is running for the Democratic nomination. Sanders is running against Hillary to be the Democratic nominee. Sanders is not running on a 3rd party ticket. Do we have that clear?

Bernie Sanders has higher national bi-partisan favorability than any Republican candidate. In other words, the country as a whole is more inclined to vote for Sanders than any Republican candidate as it stands.

Also, as far as guns go, if that's your big issue, then you can rest assured nobody is taking your guns. Nobody is even trying to take your fucking gun, unless you have schizophrenia, or a violent criminal history, in which case, you shouldn't be allowed to have them.

Trump is the far away leader in the polls last I saw. However, the debates haven't started yet, so we have a long way to go. Sanders doesn't have the name recognition that Hillary does, but his poll numbers have been steadily doubling every couple months, and Hillary's have been dropping faster than Bernies have been rising!

Sanders isn't a Socialist. He believes in strong social programs, and that is considered Socialism in America, but it is not Socialism. Nowadays they call it 'Democratic Socialism', but it's really just a Capitalist mixed economy, like what Germany has.

As far as I'm aware, the Patriot Act is still a problem in this country, correct me if I am wrong. The NSA is still spying, and Rand Paul was mostly just grandstanding to increase his electability. Don't get me wrong. I like Rand Paul. I believe he is a man of integrity, and an idealist, which I would like to see more of in government. However, I disagree with his ideals. I find Libertarianism to be a beautiful misrepresentation of the world. A way to package corporate greed and unethical maltreatment of the environment and the community in simple terms that make it sound appealing. It is an avenue for the wealthy to cry about taxes and restrictions on their unfettered capitalist growth, that swallows up entire economies and moves on to its next victim. It is an abhorrent philosophy.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22025369 -

Bush does it too, by the way. They all do.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22029382 -

DottoreWolfe said:
spock said:
DottoreWolfe said:
You say republicans are all these bad things and that Obama is a right winger (he is the opposite of a right winger).


I'm not going to call Obama a right winger although I probably have before. That is the biggest problem I've had with him. Being too far to the right.

Peace
Spock



Too left for me


Not surprising


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22030011 -

DottoreWolfe said:
spock said:
DottoreWolfe said:
You say republicans are all these bad things and that Obama is a right winger (he is the opposite of a right winger).


I'm not going to call Obama a right winger although I probably have before. That is the biggest problem I've had with him. Being too far to the right.

Peace
Spock



Too left for me


I think Reagan was too far left for you lmao


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22031317 -

Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
spock said:
DottoreWolfe said:
You say republicans are all these bad things and that Obama is a right winger (he is the opposite of a right winger).


I'm not going to call Obama a right winger although I probably have before. That is the biggest problem I've had with him. Being too far to the right.

Peace
Spock



Too left for me


I think Reagan was too far left for you lmao



I feel I'm not even to the right sometimes, a lot of right wingers want big government which I strongly oppose. I don't believe in destruction of the environment by the way...I don't know how you associate that with libertarianism..of course I believe in environmental regulations, many libertarians do (as that is a matter which affects all peoples right to life). You say they only want to take guns from crazies and violent criminals, but that is simply not true Obama, Feinstein, Pelosi and that whole crew had a whole campaign to ban "assault weapons" (which are really just hunting rifles with plastic casings (as seen in pic I attached earlier)). When that campaign failed miserably they tried to ban AR 15 bullets....they couldn't get the gun so they came after the bullets...sounds like an action made by a fascist. Libertarianism is what our country was founded on, the whole notion of a tea party, self reliance, freedom from government, etc. Now i'm taxed up the ass, if I wanted to buy land and just live there I couldn't becausae I would have to get money for taxes (so you basically have to work), they try to take weapons, they want to force me to buy healthcare, I can't even follow my religion of using ahyuasca and peyote for true religious purposes now the constitution is being violated, our rights are being tugged away from us while the tea party desperately tries to pull back on the reigns government.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22032455 -

I agree that a lot of our rights are being violated.  The 4th amendment is a big one.  As far as Libertarians being anti-environment both Pauls are notorious anti-environment supporters.  And of course, the Koch Brothers create a shit ton of pollution with their business practices and just pay a fine, even when lives are lost as a result.

So for me Libertarian simply means anarchy.  But the robber baron sort of anarchy outlined in Ayn Rand's books as opposed to some kind of anarchist syndicalism as supported by Chomsky.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22033184 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
I feel I'm not even to the right sometimes, a lot of right wingers want big government which I strongly oppose. I don't believe in destruction of the environment by the way...I don't know how you associate that with libertarianism..of course I believe in environmental regulations, many libertarians do (as that is a matter which affects all peoples right to life). You say they only want to take guns from crazies and violent criminals, but that is simply not true Obama, Feinstein, Pelosi and that whole crew had a whole campaign to ban "assault weapons" (which are really just hunting rifles with plastic casings (as seen in pic I attached earlier)). When that campaign failed miserably they tried to ban AR 15 bullets....they couldn't get the gun so they came after the bullets...sounds like an action made by a fascist. Libertarianism is what our country was founded on, the whole notion of a tea party, self reliance, freedom from government, etc. Now i'm taxed up the ass, if I wanted to buy land and just live there I couldn't becausae I would have to get money for taxes (so you basically have to work), they try to take weapons, they want to force me to buy healthcare, I can't even follow my religion of using ahyuasca and peyote for true religious purposes now the constitution is being violated, our rights are being tugged away from us while the tea party desperately tries to pull back on the reigns government.


I don't think Libertarians "hate" the environment, they just support policies that would lead to the inevitable destruction of environment. How is getting rid of guns Fascist? That's not a principle of Fascism. Here, check this article out:

Quote:
The 1938 law signed by Hitler that LaPierre mentions in his book basically does the opposite of what he says it did. “The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition,”


http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

You have to have healthcare, because otherwise everyone else's healthcare costs are driven up by your emergency room visits that you never paid for. Then again, Libertarians don't believe you should be able to go to the emergency room without insurance. I find their approach beyond wrong.

If you actually have a religion that requires the use of ayahuasca and peyote, then you most certainly can use them. There are people on the left and the right that are opposed to drug laws, btw.

Look, there are many brands of Libertarianism. For instance, you could be a Libertarian Communist, but I doubt you are. When you say you're a Libertarian it means a variety of things, and it's easy for you to pick and choose which of those things it means to you, but I think you should be more specific and say 'Anarcho-Libertarian' or something along those lines. Anarcho-Libertarianism is unconstitutional, and so are some other brands of Libertarianism.

Ok, here are some things about Libertarianism that I take issue with: They incorrectly believe that Tax is 'theft'. It is not theft, it is part of the Social contract we have as citizens living in America. There have to be Taxes to have government, and government is part of the constitution. Libertarians generally believe we shouldn't have any environmental protection regulations, we shouldn't have public schools, we shouldn't have a minimum wage, we should do away with all of our social safety net programs, and no restrictions on big business. We should just let them swallow up the world.

Libertarians want to go back to the dark ages. We live in the 21st century.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22035847 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Also, as far as guns go, if that's your big issue, then you can rest assured nobody is taking your guns. Nobody is even trying to take your fucking gun, unless you have schizophrenia, or a violent criminal history, in which case, you shouldn't be allowed to have them.



Bernie Sanders came out a few days ago totally opposed to any guns (not for hunting) "designed to kill people" including pistols, shotguns and many types of rifles.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22035875 -

Whoever gives me 5 shroomys can have my vote. Seriously rate me 5 and ill vote for you first come first serve :wink:


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22035942 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Also, as far as guns go, if that's your big issue, then you can rest assured nobody is taking your guns. Nobody is even trying to take your fucking gun, unless you have schizophrenia, or a violent criminal history, in which case, you shouldn't be allowed to have them.



Bernie Sanders came out a few days ago totally opposed to any guns (not for hunting) "designed to kill people" including pistols, shotguns and many types of rifles.


Only gun I'd have would be to kill(if forced to of course) people. I'm not in to killing animals. Human's can be dangerous though. I don't buy that the right to bear arms is only for militias either. Our country was founded on revolution. Having said that. I'm not packing. Also too many people("gun nuts") are talking loudly about their guns and at the same time not looking very smart. Fools with guns is something that has to be addressed by the leaders. Politicians would not be taking a stance if they did not feel like a majority of citizens felt it was important. It is a complex issue that does not benefit from extremest voices.

Peace 
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #22035966 -

I have an AR-15 but they will have to take it from my cold dead hands. I just get wasted and shoot it in the woods at random things all hunter thompson style.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22036010 -

thewanderer25 said:
I have an AR-15 but they will have to take it from my cold dead hands. I just get wasted and shoot it in the woods at random things all hunter thompson style.


See that is definitely dangerous. If you're not aiming for something(especially a freaking ar-15) dont shoot. Spraying bullets is likely to kill something. Especially because you're fucking drunk. It's probably as dangerous as drinking and driving(unless you happen to live at least 2 miles away from anyone).
DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Also, as far as guns go, if that's your big issue, then you can rest assured nobody is taking your guns. Nobody is even trying to take your fucking gun, unless you have schizophrenia, or a violent criminal history, in which case, you shouldn't be allowed to have them.



Bernie Sanders came out a few days ago totally opposed to any guns (not for hunting) "designed to kill people" including pistols, shotguns and many types of rifles.


Link please?


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22036033 -

thewanderer25 said:
I have an AR-15 but they will have to take it from my cold dead hands. I just get wasted and shoot it in the woods at random things all hunter thompson style.


Nice, if it looks like democrats are going to win I'll buy one too. Similarly, they'll have to take it from my cold dead hands. 88/100 qualified adult Americans own guns, I'm pretty sure the taking away of our guns would result in a civil war (as our country is already polarised now more than ever before). Plus that whole second amendment thingy mahjgigger (as ratified in our constitution) "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."... The judicial system was created to strike down any laws that violate the constitution and they continually have. The socialists and fascists will always keep trying to disarm the people until one day they succeed in passing legislation, they will soon realize, after millions of guns are not turned in, that when they start knocking on doors to seize weapons, a civil war may ensue.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22036038 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Also, as far as guns go, if that's your big issue, then you can rest assured nobody is taking your guns. Nobody is even trying to take your fucking gun, unless you have schizophrenia, or a violent criminal history, in which case, you shouldn't be allowed to have them.



Bernie Sanders came out a few days ago totally opposed to any guns (not for hunting) "designed to kill people" including pistols, shotguns and many types of rifles.


Bernie Sanders could never do it on his own, and he would never get enough support from congress. This is not the issue people make it out to be. The vast majority of Americans don't want their guns taken away.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22036039 -

Achillita said:
thewanderer25 said:
I have an AR-15 but they will have to take it from my cold dead hands. I just get wasted and shoot it in the woods at random things all hunter thompson style.


See that is definitely dangerous. If you're not aiming for something(especially a freaking ar-15) dont shoot. Spraying bullets is likely to kill something. Especially because you're fucking drunk. It's probably as dangerous as drinking and driving(unless you happen to live at least 2 miles away from anyone).
DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Also, as far as guns go, if that's your big issue, then you can rest assured nobody is taking your guns. Nobody is even trying to take your fucking gun, unless you have schizophrenia, or a violent criminal history, in which case, you shouldn't be allowed to have them.



Bernie Sanders came out a few days ago totally opposed to any guns (not for hunting) "designed to kill people" including pistols, shotguns and many types of rifles.


Link please?




There are many links all over the web right now here is just one: http://truthinmedia.com/bernie-sanders-calls-for-sweeping-gun-ban-that-would-outlaw-all-self-defense-firearms/ ....but it is all over most every newssite


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22036044 -

Idk im acutely usually drunk or on molly and coke when I shoot it. I got fucked up and shot at a stop sign out of my friends car. But i've never hit anyone and im a good shot the issue was when I got fucked up and shot it out my friends window at 1:00 in the morning. The woods is next to my neighbors house but they dont live there anymore so I can go whenever. But heres my ar 15 and ive got a mossberg 500 in my trunk


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22036059 -

Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Also, as far as guns go, if that's your big issue, then you can rest assured nobody is taking your guns. Nobody is even trying to take your fucking gun, unless you have schizophrenia, or a violent criminal history, in which case, you shouldn't be allowed to have them.



Bernie Sanders came out a few days ago totally opposed to any guns (not for hunting) "designed to kill people" including pistols, shotguns and many types of rifles.


Bernie Sanders could never do it on his own, and he would never get enough support from congress. This is not the issue people make it out to be. The vast majority of Americans don't want their guns taken away.



his whole career he was vehemently pro gun and now just for election purposes he touts a ferocious anti gun policy, yeah he won't get support, even if he did the courts would strike it down as the constitution is clear...even federal "assault weapon" bans would probably be over turned in courts. It is just I don't want to elect someone doing what they can to push away my guns, as gun control is one of the most important issues to me as it keeps away tyranny, fascism and it ensures your right to life, when threatened, etc.



--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22036071 -

thewanderer25 said:
Idk im acutely usually drunk or on molly and coke when I shoot it. I got fucked up and shot at a stop sign out of my friends car. But i've never hit anyone and im a good shot the issue was when I got fucked up and shot it out my friends window at 1:00 in the morning. The woods is next to my neighbors house but they dont live there anymore so I can go whenever. But heres my ar 15 and ive got a mossberg 500 in my trunk



Now you got 5 shrooms for having such a nice weapon and not letting the government take it away. Since you own weapons you can't be for Bernie Sanders or pigs in blue will be at the door in full army gear.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22036086 -

If any pigs show up at my door that mossberg will stop them. I actually just think guns are fun and I like that I have the right to have them it makes me want them more. Like if the country was founded on the premise that you have the right to eat bananas im sure we would all eat hella bananas just because its our right.

But idk man I promised the other dude ill go for bernie and bernie might legalize weed which will be sweet. But seriously if the government tries and take my guns that's against the constitution so I will be obligated to protect my right from all enemies foreign and domestic. Thier gonna get a 12 gauge slug straight to the dome if they try.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22036087 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Also, as far as guns go, if that's your big issue, then you can rest assured nobody is taking your guns. Nobody is even trying to take your fucking gun, unless you have schizophrenia, or a violent criminal history, in which case, you shouldn't be allowed to have them.



Bernie Sanders came out a few days ago totally opposed to any guns (not for hunting) "designed to kill people" including pistols, shotguns and many types of rifles.


Bernie Sanders could never do it on his own, and he would never get enough support from congress. This is not the issue people make it out to be. The vast majority of Americans don't want their guns taken away.



his whole career he was vehemently pro gun and now just for election purposes he touts a ferocious anti gun policy, yeah he won't get support, even if he did the courts would strike it down as the constitution is clear...even federal "assault weapon" bans would probably be over turned in courts. It is just I don't want to elect someone doing what they can to push away my guns, as gun control is one of the most important issues to me as it keeps away tyranny, fascism and it ensures your right to life, when threatened, etc.




Did you miss my earlier post? The Fascist Nazi Germans reversed gun-control laws in Germany when they took power. A bunch of rednecks with AR-15's ain't got shit on the US military. I think this argument is silly. However, I am not a gun control enthusiast, so this must be the only issue I don't side with Bernie on.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22036092 -

thewanderer25 said:
If any pigs show up at my door that mossberg will stop them. I actually just think guns are fun and I like that I have the right to have them it makes me want them more. Like if the country was founded on the premise that you have the right to eat bananas im sure we would all eat hella bananas just because its our right.

But idk man I promised the other dude ill go for bernie and bernie might legalize weed which will be sweet. But seriously if the government tries and take my guns that's against the constitution so I will be obligated to protect my right from all enemies foreign and domestic. Thier gonna get a 12 gauge slug straight to the dome if they try.


You crack me up bro. I wish we had some molly where I live, but I don't think I'd ever have the urge to go shoot guns while I was rollin! lmao >.<

What is molly+coke like? I know coke always makes my trips better.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22036109 -

I dont mix molly and coke its one or the other and I just got into coke it makes me kinda paranoid and hella energetic. Molly I get drunk on I dont know why but I get super thirsty sometimes like kottonmouth from hell so I drink fourlokos or corona light.

But coke when your drunk is literally the best shit on earth because you like tiered then out of it then your just snap awake and bugged out. Thats around when the gun gets shot I bought the thing just cause it looked cool and its fun to play with thier both used and my friend gave me a good price.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22036113 -

DottoreWolfe said:

Since you own weapons you can't be for Bernie Sanders or pigs in blue will be at the door in full army gear.


That is just silly and with all due respect, crazy talk. Gun fanatics make gun owners look bad. Sanders, as well as all potential candidates, will be asked about gun control. That does not mean that it is top priority unless the public wants it to be. The fanatics that push the issue are the ones who will end up making law makers to put the limits on gun buying. Even if 88% of the U.S. is armed.It would be close to the same percentage that sees that things are out of hand and are asking law makers to do something about it. You said 88/100 but Dems make up more than 12% of the population. Don't think that only republicans are armed.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22036118 -

Idk though i've got some stupid shit around I bought a north korean flag and I live in SC so they all fly the confederate flag off the back of their trucks so I fly my north korean flag just for the :ducklol: Im realy stupid with money my place is filled with wacky things ive bought to play with on drugs.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22036234 -

thewanderer25 said:
I dont mix molly and coke its one or the other and I just got into coke it makes me kinda paranoid and hella energetic. Molly I get drunk on I dont know why but I get super thirsty sometimes like kottonmouth from hell so I drink fourlokos or corona light.

But coke when your drunk is literally the best shit on earth because you like tiered then out of it then your just snap awake and bugged out. Thats around when the gun gets shot I bought the thing just cause it looked cool and its fun to play with thier both used and my friend gave me a good price.



dude Donald Trump and Rand Paul(the current and former leading republican candidates, respectively) both, that's right BOTH want cannabis legal. Donald Trump wants to legalize and tax and Rand Paul wants to let states decided.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: spock]
    #22036237 -

spock said:
DottoreWolfe said:

Since you own weapons you can't be for Bernie Sanders or pigs in blue will be at the door in full army gear.


That is just silly and with all due respect, crazy talk. Gun fanatics make gun owners look bad. Sanders, as well as all potential candidates, will be asked about gun control. That does not mean that it is top priority unless the public wants it to be. The fanatics that push the issue are the ones who will end up making law makers to put the limits on gun buying. Even if 88% of the U.S. is armed.It would be close to the same percentage that sees that things are out of hand and are asking law makers to do something about it. You said 88/100 but Dems make up more than 12% of the population. Don't think that only republicans are armed.

Peace
Spock


I was obviously exaggerating the threat, sorry if I didn't make the exaggeration clearer...I never said democrats didn't own guns, I'm just saying Bernie Sanders shouldn't be president and you shouldn't vote for him because of his unconstitutional gun control policy and if you own guns you shouldn't vote for him because he wants to take them away.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22036444 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Achillita said:
thewanderer25 said:
I have an AR-15 but they will have to take it from my cold dead hands. I just get wasted and shoot it in the woods at random things all hunter thompson style.


See that is definitely dangerous. If you're not aiming for something(especially a freaking ar-15) dont shoot. Spraying bullets is likely to kill something. Especially because you're fucking drunk. It's probably as dangerous as drinking and driving(unless you happen to live at least 2 miles away from anyone).
DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Also, as far as guns go, if that's your big issue, then you can rest assured nobody is taking your guns. Nobody is even trying to take your fucking gun, unless you have schizophrenia, or a violent criminal history, in which case, you shouldn't be allowed to have them.



Bernie Sanders came out a few days ago totally opposed to any guns (not for hunting) "designed to kill people" including pistols, shotguns and many types of rifles.


Link please?




There are many links all over the web right now here is just one: http://truthinmedia.com/bernie-sanders-calls-for-sweeping-gun-ban-that-would-outlaw-all-self-defense-firearms/ ....but it is all over most every newssite


I watched the video they gave on it, he never said he was going to try and ban rifles or shotguns, the article says it implies this. He was stating they need to find common ground on gun control instead of yelling at each other. He said people with a criminal history(and also implies violemt crime like abuse) shouldn't own guns at all.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22037213 -




I watched the video they gave on it, he never said he was going to try and ban rifles or shotguns, the article says it implies this. He was stating they need to find common ground on gun control instead of yelling at each other. He said peop
le with a criminal history(and also implies violemt crime like abuse) shouldn't own guns at all.


He said Nobody should have a gun who has a criminal background, who’s involved in domestic abuse situations. People should not have guns who are going to hurt other people, who are unstable. And second of all I believe that we need to make sure that certain types of guns used to kill people, exclusively, not for hunting, they should not be sold in the United States of America, and we have a huge loophole now with gun shows that should be eliminated.". Logically one can assume this means weapons not made specifically designed for hunting, which includes hang guns, shot guns, any extended stock, fore grip, any semi auto and of course any full auto. This is not "common ground", "common ground" is not allowing violent felons to own firearms and banning 100  round belt fed clips without a special license. Taking away semi automatic hunting rifles or as some call them "assault weapons" is not a common ground move, assault weapons are just hunting rifles with a special plastic casing for an top-ti.



--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22040126 -

DottoreWolfe said:

I watched the video they gave on it, he never said he was going to try and ban rifles or shotguns, the article says it implies this. He was stating they need to find common ground on gun control instead of yelling at each other. He said peop
le with a criminal history(and also implies violemt crime like abuse) shouldn't own guns at all.


He said Nobody should have a gun who has a criminal background, who’s involved in domestic abuse situations. People should not have guns who are going to hurt other people, who are unstable. And second of all I believe that we need to make sure that certain types of guns used to kill people, exclusively, not for hunting, they should not be sold in the United States of America, and we have a huge loophole now with gun shows that should be eliminated.". Logically one can assume this means weapons not made specifically designed for hunting, which includes hang guns, shot guns, any extended stock, fore grip, any semi auto and of course any full auto. This is not "common ground", "common ground" is not allowing violent felons to own firearms and banning 100  round belt fed clips without a special license. Taking away semi automatic hunting rifles or as some call them "assault weapons" is not a common ground move, assault weapons are just hunting rifles with a special plastic casing for an top-ti.




Silencers, extended magazines, and fore-grip's are a little bit beyond 'special plastic casing'.

I want to know what your idea of a compromise is.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22040172 -

Man I want an RPG so bad but the government is all like noooo. Thats bad enough man if ive learned anything from the war on drugs its that banning something doesn't work where there's a supply there's a demand and then the guns will only be owned by criminals and cops. Like if a criminal (cops included) breaks into my home to take my things he is getting shot but if they take my guns im helpless against someone who has one which will only be my least two favorite kinds of people criminals and cops.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22040339 -

Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:

I watched the video they gave on it, he never said he was going to try and ban rifles or shotguns, the article says it implies this. He was stating they need to find common ground on gun control instead of yelling at each other. He said peop
le with a criminal history(and also implies violemt crime like abuse) shouldn't own guns at all.


He said Nobody should have a gun who has a criminal background, who’s involved in domestic abuse situations. People should not have guns who are going to hurt other people, who are unstable. And second of all I believe that we need to make sure that certain types of guns used to kill people, exclusively, not for hunting, they should not be sold in the United States of America, and we have a huge loophole now with gun shows that should be eliminated.". Logically one can assume this means weapons not made specifically designed for hunting, which includes hang guns, shot guns, any extended stock, fore grip, any semi auto and of course any full auto. This is not "common ground", "common ground" is not allowing violent felons to own firearms and banning 100  round belt fed clips without a special license. Taking away semi automatic hunting rifles or as some call them "assault weapons" is not a common ground move, assault weapons are just hunting rifles with a special plastic casing for an top-ti.




Silencers, extended magazines, and fore-grip's are a little bit beyond 'special plastic casing'.

I want to know what your idea of a compromise is.


Silencers, even for personal or militia use, already require unbelievably stringent licensure from the ?ATF...I agree it should be difficult to obtain silencers. "Extended magazine" is a relative term, what is extended? because I know for many weapons that fire rapidly 10 round clips are a huge hassle to reload every time at the range; again I believe stringent, but accessible special licensure should be considered. Foregrips on the other had should not be banned as they help stabilize high power weapons with a lot of "kick", like a powerful shot gun, this is especially helpful when women, children or elderly people need a better handle so they don't dislocate their arm. Many elderly people are already more succesbtable to injuries like this and much less force is needed to cause these injuries. I am willing to compromise on the fact that stringent licensure (exam, safety classes, background check etc.) should be ensured for silencers, magazines over 10 rounds, automatic weapons and various other things. I believe everyone over the age of 18, not convicted of violent crime, should freely be able to buy semi automatic weapons with 10 round clips and foregrips, as well as handguns (of course requiring the background check, 10 day waiting period and firearm safety exam).


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22040360 -

thewanderer25 said:
Man I want an RPG so bad but the government is all like noooo. Thats bad enough man if ive learned anything from the war on drugs its that banning something doesn't work where there's a supply there's a demand and then the guns will only be owned by criminals and cops. Like if a criminal (cops included) breaks into my home to take my things he is getting shot but if they take my guns im helpless against someone who has one which will only be my least two favorite kinds of people criminals and cops.



Also, I agree with this^^^. If you think taking guns away will end guns your wrong, it will just put guns in the hands of only criminals (including our government and street thugs). Until June 2015, Puerto Rico has some of the strongest gun control legislation imaginable, not even surpassed by New York City, yet they have they highest murder rates by guns in the U.S.. Before a court case in 2015, people were totally defenceless to these horrid murderers. Don't worry now citizens of Puerto Rico can freely buy guns and carry them concealed without needing any permits! (:

Herein is a copy & paste from wiki:
The case was brought by William Bermúdez and others in a class action suit. Judge Irizarry ruled that anyone wishing to acquire a firearm will only need to complete the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) form 4473, as currently required by U.S. Federal Law.

Prior to this ruling, a person had to be 21 to get a weapons license along with several other requirements. A person was required to present a sworn statement attesting to compliance with fiscal laws, purchase a $100 internal revenue stamp, submit 3 statements from community members who aren't related to them attesting to their good reputation, submit a signed application that is notarized, be fingerprinted and photographed, and submit a negative certificate of debt to the child support administration.[5] That process was just to be able to purchase firearms to store in a residence or business and not for a concealed carry permit. In order to acquire a concealed carry permit a person had to first have a Target shooting license and then appear before a Judge and present proof of a strong reason for a permit. Due to this process, in many cases concealed carry permit applications were denied. As such Puerto Rico was considered to be an effective "No Issue" territory for concealed carry permits except for in exceptional cases despite the official "may issue" policy. Recently there has been an uptick in weapons license applications with a 56% increase from 2013. The Puerto Rican Police attribute the increase to the fear of being targeted by criminals in Puerto Rico.[6]


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


Edited by DottoreWolfe (08/04/15 01:09 AM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22040434 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:

I watched the video they gave on it, he never said he was going to try and ban rifles or shotguns, the article says it implies this. He was stating they need to find common ground on gun control instead of yelling at each other. He said peop
le with a criminal history(and also implies violemt crime like abuse) shouldn't own guns at all.


He said Nobody should have a gun who has a criminal background, who’s involved in domestic abuse situations. People should not have guns who are going to hurt other people, who are unstable. And second of all I believe that we need to make sure that certain types of guns used to kill people, exclusively, not for hunting, they should not be sold in the United States of America, and we have a huge loophole now with gun shows that should be eliminated.". Logically one can assume this means weapons not made specifically designed for hunting, which includes hang guns, shot guns, any extended stock, fore grip, any semi auto and of course any full auto. This is not "common ground", "common ground" is not allowing violent felons to own firearms and banning 100  round belt fed clips without a special license. Taking away semi automatic hunting rifles or as some call them "assault weapons" is not a common ground move, assault weapons are just hunting rifles with a special plastic casing for an top-ti.




Silencers, extended magazines, and fore-grip's are a little bit beyond 'special plastic casing'.

I want to know what your idea of a compromise is.


Silencers, even for personal or militia use, already require unbelievably stringent licensure from the ?ATF...I agree it should be difficult to obtain silencers. "Extended magazine" is a relative term, what is extended? because I know for many weapons that fire rapidly 10 round clips are a huge hassle to reload every time at the range; again I believe stringent, but accessible special licensure should be considered. Foregrips on the other had should not be banned as they help stabilize high power weapons with a lot of "kick", like a powerful shot gun, this is especially helpful when women, children or elderly people need a better handle so they don't dislocate their arm. Many elderly people are already more succesbtable to injuries like this and much less force is needed to cause these injuries. I am willing to compromise on the fact that stringent licensure (exam, safety classes, background check etc.) should be ensured for silencers, magazines over 10 rounds, automatic weapons and various other things. I believe everyone over the age of 18, not convicted of violent crime, should freely be able to buy semi automatic weapons with 10 round clips and foregrips, as well as handguns (of course requiring the background check, 10 day waiting period and firearm safety exam).


So, you're a reasonable man. I agree with you entirely. Bernie hasn't expressed a desire to do any more than what you've outlined. As far as I know, he has said that we need to have a serious discussion about gun ownership in America. That doesn't mean banning guns.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22040449 -




So, you're a reasonable man. I agree with you entirely. Bernie hasn't expressed a desire to do any more than what you've outlined. As far as I know, he has said that we need to have a serious discussion about gun ownership in America. That doesn't mean banning guns.



Everything I just mentioned are precautions that are already in place in most every state around the country and the states where that is not in place are where voters of that state have chosen to have their respective system in place. Why do we need to tighten the already stringent gun restrictions? I agree guns should be taken away from felons and lunatics, but felons already are not able to purchase firearms (which is why there is a background check and 10 day waiting period), similarly lunatics that are deemed a threat to their own life or the life of others are banned from owning weapons as well. We already have some solid gun regulation here in the states, maybe some additional refinement, sure, but a complete overhaul is unnecessary the U.S. is one of the safest land masses on the entire planet and ironically the cities in the US with the most gun control exhibit the most gun violence...too much gun control and a new war on drugs will surely ensue.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22040507 -

I love guns, and honestly if bernie sanders is completely wanting a war on guns, that will be something i disagree with. But i do think we need certain regulation, and taking guns out of the hands of incompetent gun owners.

Like no offence thewander25, but you're not the best gun owner. They aren't toys, but yeah they can be fun. But shooting randomly into a forest(which you don't know kf someone is there) or even moreso shooting an ar-15 out of the window of a moving car! Like shit like that can eventually harm someone. I like that you love your guns, but getting drunk or snorting tons of coke and just shooting a gun in an area where people live is irresponsible.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22040565 -

Achillita said:
I love guns, and honestly if bernie sanders is completely wanting a war on guns, that will be something i disagree with. But i do think we need certain regulation, and taking guns out of the hands of incompetent gun owners.

Like no offence thewander25, but you're not the best gun owner. They aren't toys, but yeah they can be fun. But shooting randomly into a forest(which you don't know kf someone is there) or even moreso shooting an ar-15 out of the window of a moving car! Like shit like that can eventually harm someone. I like that you love your guns, but getting drunk or snorting tons of coke and just shooting a gun in an area where people live is irresponsible.


Agreed 100% I am pro gun to the bone, live free or die, which to me, includes freedom to bear arms. I would die for our right to bear arms. How can any constitutional supporter and/or gun lover vote for Bernie Sanders when he suddenly changes his career pro-gun voting record just to win over the democrats to become the democratic nominee. I do support his policy on immigration, but his overall socialist fascist ideology really scares me away. Gun rights are my number one issue right alongside fiscal policy, drug policy and immigration. I support Rand Paul 100%, as I support Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, they fight for the constitution and our individual rights (also, Paul and Trump both want to legalize cannabis), do not get me wrong I used to be a democrat, but gun control and immigration too are huge issues which republicans hit the nail on the head. Promote legal immigration and build a wall. Most republicans are not gung ho about their guns, most are willing to have modest regulation, just not to the extend pushed by the left who then (using the liberal media) over exaggerate the opinions of the right. Vote to uphold the constitution and keep arms in the hands of responsible adult citizens, vote republican..American freedom is too precious of an idea to let die.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


Edited by DottoreWolfe (08/04/15 03:07 AM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22040580 -

Achillita said:
Bernie sanders 2016!

Voting for trump because he is funny is stupid man. Even if presidents are just puppets, he is a pompous asshole. Bernie sanders is a much better candidate who actually wants to help.

Vote Bernie!


Rethinking your position yet?


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22040588 -

:lol: i still think trump is a pompous asshole. I am going to wait until bernie elaborates more into what he meant. I want a better country for all, but i don't think we should sacrifice our liberties to do so.

Im going to be looking out for a more elaborated view on bernie's gun ideas. I doubt he will be pushing gun control before his social issues he wants to address. He has only spoken about guns a few times.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22040593 -

Achillita said:
:lol: i still think trump is a pompous asshole. I am going to wait until bernie elaborates more into what he meant. I want a better country for all, but i don't think we should sacrifice our liberties to do so.

Im going to be looking out for a more elaborated view on bernie's gun ideas. I doubt he will be pushing gun control before his social issues he wants to address. He has only spoken about guns a few times.


He said it's not a major issue for him, but regardless the anti gun lobby's are going to become an essential part of his campaign (groups like democracy for America already said they wouldn't support him until he changed views, than he did)...when they pay him millions in funding they'll expect something for it, regardless if it's atop his agenda. Watch out for what he says and if he says it in the not too distant future post it up on here.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22040975 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Achillita said:
:lol: i still think trump is a pompous asshole. I am going to wait until bernie elaborates more into what he meant. I want a better country for all, but i don't think we should sacrifice our liberties to do so.

Im going to be looking out for a more elaborated view on bernie's gun ideas. I doubt he will be pushing gun control before his social issues he wants to address. He has only spoken about guns a few times.


He said it's not a major issue for him, but regardless the anti gun lobby's are going to become an essential part of his campaign (groups like democracy for America already said they wouldn't support him until he changed views, than he did)...when they pay him millions in funding they'll expect something for it, regardless if it's atop his agenda. Watch out for what he says and if he says it in the not too distant future post it up on here.


You are misrepresenting Bernie Sanders. He is a man of integrity, and I think he wants exactly what he said he wants: 'A serious discussion about gun control laws'. That doesn't mean 'let's get rid of guns', and it also doesn't mean 'let's get rid of gun control'. It means 'lets talk about the issue', because clearly an issue still exists.

Also, nobody has paid Bernie Sanders a large sum of money like 'millions'. He has been offered that sort of funding and turned it down, because it's against his principles. You either don't know Bernie Sanders, or you are flat out misrepresenting him with lies. Bernie will not accept large donations because he believes there is too much money in politics, and he wants to be above that.

You are recklessly making negative speculations with no basis in reality, because you don't like the guy. Be honest.

Then again, I don't think you really know what's going on in this election to be perfectly honest. You thought that Bernie Sanders was running as an independent, when in reality he's running against Hillary for the democratic nomination. He is not 'splitting the ticket', as you have stated numerous times. This was a hot topic since they first started making their announcements; it is not news.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22041761 -

This is what I like to do with guns
watch this its just fun as shit when you're messed up.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22041916 -

Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
Achillita said:
:lol: i still think trump is a pompous asshole. I am going to wait until bernie elaborates more into what he meant. I want a better country for all, but i don't think we should sacrifice our liberties to do so.

Im going to be looking out for a more elaborated view on bernie's gun ideas. I doubt he will be pushing gun control before his social issues he wants to address. He has only spoken about guns a few times.


He said it's not a major issue for him, but regardless the anti gun lobby's are going to become an essential part of his campaign (groups like democracy for America already said they wouldn't support him until he changed views, than he did)...when they pay him millions in funding they'll expect something for it, regardless if it's atop his agenda. Watch out for what he says and if he says it in the not too distant future post it up on here.


You are misrepresenting Bernie Sanders. He is a man of integrity, and I think he wants exactly what he said he wants: 'A serious discussion about gun control laws'. That doesn't mean 'let's get rid of guns', and it also doesn't mean 'let's get rid of gun control'. It means 'lets talk about the issue', because clearly an issue still exists.

Also, nobody has paid Bernie Sanders a large sum of money like 'millions'. He has been offered that sort of funding and turned it down, because it's against his principles. You either don't know Bernie Sanders, or you are flat out misrepresenting him with lies. Bernie will not accept large donations because he believes there is too much money in politics, and he wants to be above that.

You are recklessly making negative speculations with no basis in reality, because you don't like the guy. Be honest.

Then again, I don't think you really know what's going on in this election to be perfectly honest. You thought that Bernie Sanders was running as an independent, when in reality he's running against Hillary for the democratic nomination. He is not 'splitting the ticket', as you have stated numerous times. This was a hot topic since they first started making their announcements; it is not news.


You don't need to make me seem like a bad guy. Had I know he was running for the democratic nomination I would have said so. You were right he's not splitting the ticket like I had presumed (because my whole life he ran as an independent whilst being a socialist...so I just presumed)., regardless  even when people offer him "not large" donations that he does accept people still expect something for that....regardless. He said he wants to get rid of any guns not designed specifically for hunting..that is tightening gun control period.He may have said lets have a talk about guns, but I posted the article a few posts back on this thread wherein he said we need to get rid of guns that aren't specifically designed  for hunting... Don't make me seem like the one who is terrible, I'm just calling it as I see it.


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


Edited by DottoreWolfe (08/04/15 02:37 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22043442 -

Im a libertarian the government shouldn't intrude on my private affairs. That's why I shot that stop sign no government should tell me when to stop.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22043619 -

thewanderer25 said:
Im a libertarian the government shouldn't intrude on my private affairs. That's why I shot that stop sign no government should tell me when to stop.



I totally get that. But, nevertheless you should take proper precautions with your firearms such as ensuring a clear shooting area. Better safe than sorry, you accidently hit someone you may never legally own a gun again.


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22044173 -

True ill try and be more careful its not just that I could get in trouble I would feel horrible if I shot an innocent person. Im just stupid when im drunk and coked out.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22044237 -

thewanderer25 said:
True ill try and be more careful its not just that I could get in trouble I would feel horrible if I shot an innocent person. Im just stupid when im drunk and coked out.



...so in summation vote republican be it Paul, Cruz or Trump pro gun, pro weed (except for Cruz), less tax for everyone (big and small businesses and all citizens) and pro Liberty....I would never vote for anyone that's even slightly anti gun and Bernie's comments are quite shocking, for he was always revered as a pro gun, freedom oriented socialist. They are all pro life, but only after 3 months pregnant (when babies feel pain), because the constitution protects the right to life (it's not even a religious thing for most republicans like the democrats make it out to be...it's about the right to life ensured to us by our great constitution.


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22045157 -

thewanderer25 said:
True ill try and be more careful its not just that I could get in trouble I would feel horrible if I shot an innocent person. Im just stupid when im drunk and coked out.


Are you being serious, or just fuckin around? I used to have a pretty serious cocaine addiction and alcoholism, and I'm the last person who should have ever been fucking around with guns. Thankfully I understood as much.

DottoreWolfe may think guys like you should have access to guns, but I think that a gun is a great responsibility, and should be treated respectfully. However, I did like that video of Conan and Hunter S. Thompson! lmao

Also, DottoreWolfe, I wasn't trying to make you out to be a bad guy. I was simply saying that you are out of the loop, at least as far as Bernie Sanders goes. I saw a recent video of Bernie speaking about gun control, and what he said was that (Paraphrasing), "Guns mean something entirely different to people in Urban areas than they mean to people in Rural areas, and both points of view need to be respected". I think that is fair. Bernie Sanders is a middle-ground guy on gun control. He's not an extremist. I don't think one issue should be a deal breaker with any politician. Nobody is going to agree with you 100%.

Also, stop signs are there to guide fucking traffic. They're not there to oppress you. We live in the fucking 21st century! Driving a car is a privilege in our society, not a right. In order to prevent complete and utter chaos, we need road signs and lights. You Libertarians are fucking crazy. It honestly just gets stupid.

Here are Bernie's issues and his solutions:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/

Gun control isn't even mentioned here, because it is not a primary focus of his. He never even mentions it unless someone else brings it up. Bernie is a man of integrity, and when that is in such short supply in Washington, I find it quite refreshing. No other candidate (viable candidate) has that quality. I would vote for Rand Paul over Hillary, regardless of the fact that I disagree with him on many many issues, because I appreciate a bit of integrity, but Rand Paul is not a viable candidate this election. Ted Cruz is a backstabbing piece of trash, and Donald Trump... fuck... :facepalm3:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Edited by Bigbadwooof (08/04/15 11:29 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22045209 -

Stop signs is the government telling me what to do. If I dont want to stop I shouldn't have to just cause the government says so. I dont think they can tell me anything at all except dont harm others which I dont.

But fuck them telling me I have to stop my car im not hurting anybody they can't tell me to stop MY CAR. Its starts with stop sings then its your cereal your thoughts your every move if they tell me to do something that doesn't hurt anyone they're infringing on my rights as a human being capable of making my own choices like when to stop my car and not stop my car.

Next they tell me what food to eat what to drink what to wear all because we whent along with the absurdity that they know better than us when im sure we can look after ourselves.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22045265 -

Bigbadwooof said:
thewanderer25 said:
True ill try and be more careful its not just that I could get in trouble I would feel horrible if I shot an innocent person. Im just stupid when im drunk and coked out.


Are you being serious, or just fuckin around? I used to have a pretty serious cocaine addiction and alcoholism, and I'm the last person who should have ever been fucking around with guns. Thankfully I understood as much.

DottoreWolfe may think guys like you should have access to guns, but I think that a gun is a great responsibility, and should be treated respectfully. However, I did like that video of Conan and Hunter S. Thompson! lmao

Also, DottoreWolfe, I wasn't trying to make you out to be a bad guy. I was simply saying that you are out of the loop, at least as far as Bernie Sanders goes. I saw a recent video of Bernie speaking about gun control, and what he said was that (Paraphrasing), "Guns mean something entirely different to people in Urban areas than they mean to people in Rural areas, and both points of view need to be respected". I think that is fair. Bernie Sanders is a middle-ground guy on gun control. He's not an extremist. I don't think one issue should be a deal breaker with any politician. Nobody is going to agree with you 100%.

Also, stop signs are there to guide fucking traffic. They're not there to oppress you. We live in the fucking 21st century! Driving a car is a privilege in our society, not a right. In order to prevent complete and utter chaos, we need road signs and lights. You Libertarians are fucking crazy. It honestly just gets stupid.

Here are Bernie's issues and his solutions:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/

Gun control isn't even mentioned here, because it is not a primary focus of his. He never even mentions it unless someone else brings it up. Bernie is a man of integrity, and when that is in such short supply in Washington, I find it quite refreshing. No other candidate (viable candidate) has that quality. I would vote for Rand Paul over Hillary, regardless of the fact that I disagree with him on many many issues, because I appreciate a bit of integrity, but Rand Paul is not a viable candidate this election. Ted Cruz is a backstabbing piece of trash, and Donald Trump... fuck... :facepalm3:


How is Rand Paul not a viable candidate he was leading for months, before him Rubio, Walker and bush held similar leads? It is going up and down and until the first debate on the 6th of this month we wont know how the public feels when they are up against one another. We need to see how they debate and how the public feels it when all ideas are out there at the same time, for all we know Rick Perry will come up for the win. There is too much time left to count out Paul, financially Ted Cruz is in the lead, but then again Trump isn't seeking donations. Also I heard Trump live on Michael Savage and he said he would not run third party and split the ticket, because he is a Republican, win or lose.


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22045316 -

Here is a quick overview of Rand Paul on the issues: But whatever issue your hesitant on just go more in depth to read his full position: https://www.randpaul.com/issues He has really good positions I agree with 100%. Below is a copy & paste from the aforementioned hyperlink.



Ending NSA Spying

Today, the United States government engages in the bulk collection of personal data from every American with a cell phone. The founding fathers would be ashamed if they could see the massive growth of government that has taken place at the expense of our constitutional liberties.
.

Term Limits

We have all seen the consequence of long-term incumbencies. Career politicians seem to care more about their career than what is best for their country. We have seen politicians grow more and more out-of-touch with each successive term.
.

Taxes

There is absolutely no question that the burdensome United States Tax Code needs to be reformed. I propose we cut taxes for everyone -- rich and poor.
.

Audit the Fed

The Federal Reserve was created by Congress and is supposed to be overseen by Congress. The Fed is now in every nook and cranny of banking with unprecedented regulatory powers and no Congressional oversight. I believe the Fed should be Audited and the regulatory power should be placed back under the control of Congress.
.

Foreign Policy & Defense

I believe that one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is national security.
.

Health Care

As your President, I will ensure that real free-market principles are applied to the American health care system so that it is responsive to patients, families, and doctors, rather than government bureaucracy.
.

Energy

Washington's bureaucratic regulations, corporate subsidies, and excessive taxation have made it unnecessarily difficult for energy developers to take advantage of new and innovative forms of cheap and clean energy.
.

Immigration

I do not support amnesty, but rather I support a legal immigration process. I recognize that the country has been enriched by those who seek the American Dream and the desire for a better life, however, millions of illegal immigrants are crossing our border without our knowledge which threatens our national security.
.

Regulation

Counteracting excessively burdensome government regulations has become a centerpiece of my tenure in Washington. All my actions seek to find a balance between environmental, safety and health protection, without compromising the ability of family businesses to flourish.
.

Criminal Justice Reforms

Since taking office, I have found that one of the biggest impediments to finding a job is a criminal record. Upon examining our nation’s criminal justice system, I found that the system is in desperate need of reform.
.

Civil Liberties

The usurpation of power by our current Federal Government would make our Founding Fathers rollover in their graves. Our country was founded on principles that meant to expand personal liberties and limit the role of government. I believe we must return to these principles.
.

Education

I believe that education is the great equalizer, but too often our one-size-fits-all system leaves most kids behind. The Federal Government should not dictate what happens in our local classrooms. I believe we must abolish Common Core and give control back to the states, localities and parents.
.

Israel

I’m proud to support Israel, America’s longtime friend and ally in the Middle East. Israeli cafés and buses are bombed, towns are victimized by hundreds of rockets, and its citizens are attacked by Palestinian terrorists.
.

Social Security

Combined with years of wasteful spending by decades of career politicians in Washington, the Social Security trust fund has been left in a fragile condition.
.

Veterans

As a physician, it is particularly upsetting to me when I hear of bad experiences our veterans have had with the Department of Veterans Affairs. These experiences represent a failure of one of our most basic obligations - to provide for those who have worn the uniform and shouldered the burdens of war.
.

Sanctity of Life

I strongly believe in the sanctity of life. I believe that life begins at conception and that abortion takes the life of an innocent human being. Under the 14th Amendment, it is the government’s duty to protect life as defined in our Constitution.
.

Second Amendment

As President, I vow to uphold our entire Bill of Rights, but specifically our right to bear arms.


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22045340 -

:solidnod: I like him but im going for bernie just cause I promised the other guy. I never go against my word my word is bond.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22045358 -

It's your choice brother, but remember that choice affects the future of the country. :shrug:


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22045361 -

I traded our country's future for 5 shrooms :rofl2:


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22045367 -

thewanderer25 said:
I traded our country's future for 5 shrooms :rofl2:


:facepalm: (yay triple digit posts!!!)


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22045442 -

Like I said, I like Rand Paul. I most certainly do not agree with all of the points you've outlined, and I think his positions on some of them are poorly defined. I don't support Israel (or Palestine for that matter), and I think we need to get the fuck out of the Middle East and stop wasting money. I'm a huge supporter of Social Security, and I don't know why anyone wouldn't be. I believe in Socialized healthcare. I am not pro-life.

Quote:
Counteracting excessively burdensome government regulations has become a centerpiece of my tenure in Washington. All my actions seek to find a balance between environmental, safety and health protection, without compromising the ability of family businesses to flourish.



That sounds like a craftily worded load of horse shit.

I would like to know what exactly he means regarding putting education back in the hands of parents and states, though I don't necessarily disagree, I feel that it is ill-defined. I know auditing the fed is a core issue for Ron and Rand, but I don't find it necessary, and I think it could be potentially damaging, as strange as that may sound.

As I have said, I like Rand Paul, but there are many things I disagree with him on. I used to identify as a Libertarian, and I was a huge Ron Paul supporter once upon a time. I like what Rand has done regarding NSA spying and the militarization of the police. I like his take on immigration, energy, and civil liberties (to a much less extreme extent).

It would be nice to see him support repairing our infrastructure and killing free trade deals (Which I doubt he'd ever do).

If it were Rand vs Hillary, I would vote Rand, despite all of these differences. I like that Rand has core values that he stands for, just like Bernie Sanders. I would prefer a misguided idealist to a puppet.

Ted Cruz is a terrible candidate, and just a terrible person all around. He has stabbed so many people in congress in the back. There's a reason he's such an effective fundraiser, btw. Big business LOVES Libertarians, because their philosophy shits on the little guy, and pays off handsomely for those who are already running the show.

We will most certainly have a Democrat in the white house regardless. It will probably be Hillary also, unfortunately, but I'm still holdin out for Bernie.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22045447 -

thewanderer25 said:
I traded our country's future for 5 shrooms :rofl2:


A true patriot this one ;-)

Don't worry, you won't regret it! :smile:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22045539 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Like I said, I like Rand Paul. I most certainly do not agree with all of the points you've outlined, and I think his positions on some of them are poorly defined. I don't support Israel (or Palestine for that matter), and I think we need to get the fuck out of the Middle East and stop wasting money. I'm a huge supporter of Social Security, and I don't know why anyone wouldn't be. I believe in Socialized healthcare. I am not pro-life.

Quote:
Counteracting excessively burdensome government regulations has become a centerpiece of my tenure in Washington. All my actions seek to find a balance between environmental, safety and health protection, without compromising the ability of family businesses to flourish.



That sounds like a craftily worded load of horse shit.

I would like to know what exactly he means regarding putting education back in the hands of parents and states, though I don't necessarily disagree, I feel that it is ill-defined. I know auditing the fed is a core issue for Ron and Rand, but I don't find it necessary, and I think it could be potentially damaging, as strange as that may sound.

As I have said, I like Rand Paul, but there are many things I disagree with him on. I used to identify as a Libertarian, and I was a huge Ron Paul supporter once upon a time. I like what Rand has done regarding NSA spying and the militarization of the police. I like his take on immigration, energy, and civil liberties (to a much less extreme extent).

It would be nice to see him support repairing our infrastructure and killing free trade deals (Which I doubt he'd ever do).

If it were Rand vs Hillary, I would vote Rand, despite all of these differences. I like that Rand has core values that he stands for, just like Bernie Sanders. I would prefer a misguided idealist to a puppet.

Ted Cruz is a terrible candidate, and just a terrible person all around. He has stabbed so many people in congress in the back. There's a reason he's such an effective fundraiser, btw. Big business LOVES Libertarians, because their philosophy shits on the little guy, and pays off handsomely for those who are already running the show.

We will most certainly have a Democrat in the white house regardless. It will probably be Hillary also, unfortunately, but I'm still holdin out for Bernie.



If Bernie doesn't win the democratic nomination and he splits the ticket The Republicans have a huge chance especially with Paul. I seriously doubt blue will win again, especially with the wide pool of beliefs found in the candidates for republican nominee. We will see. I'm excited to tune into the first debate tomorrow the 6th!


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22045559 -

DottoreWolfe said:
If Bernie doesn't win the democratic nomination and he splits the ticket The Republicans have a huge chance especially with Paul. I seriously doubt blue will win again, especially with the wide pool of beliefs found in the candidates for republican nominee. We will see. I'm excited to tune into the first debate tomorrow the 6th!


Wow, I totally forgot about that. I wonder if it will be streaming on youtube. The Republican debates are going to be quite entertaining! lmao

Bernie will not run 3rd party and split the ticket. He's said as much many many many times.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22046504 -

Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
If Bernie doesn't win the democratic nomination and he splits the ticket The Republicans have a huge chance especially with Paul. I seriously doubt blue will win again, especially with the wide pool of beliefs found in the candidates for republican nominee. We will see. I'm excited to tune into the first debate tomorrow the 6th!


Wow, I totally forgot about that. I wonder if it will be streaming on youtube. The Republican debates are going to be quite entertaining! lmao

Bernie will not run 3rd party and split the ticket. He's said as much many many many times.



Haha yes the debate should be a good one with the diverse range of perspectives! (:


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22046519 -

Quote:
Foreign Policy & Defense

I believe that one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is national security.


Way to be bold, Rand. :rolleyes:


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22046567 -

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Foreign Policy & Defense

I believe that one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is national security.


Way to be bold, Rand. :rolleyes:


Lmao!!!

I believe one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is to govern!

Am I bold too?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22046670 -

Lol click the link and read his full plan on national defence it is rather bold.
Here it is:
I believe that one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is national security. As a Senator, one of the most important votes I could make is on a declaration of war. As Commander-in-Chief, the importance of this decision would not be overlooked. If the military action is justified and there is no other course of action, I would follow the Constitution and seek Congressional approval before sending our brave men and women into harm's way.

The Founding Fathers understood the seriousness of war and thus included in our Constitution a provision stating that only Congress can declare war.  We must maintain this important check and balance and the decision to wage war should not be taken lightly.

I believe in Ronald Reagan’s “Peace through Strength.” I will continue to stand with Israel and our allies abroad, and I vow to explore all diplomatic options before sending our armed forces into battle. Finally, if and when we choose to fight, we will empower our military to fight to win.




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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


Edited by DottoreWolfe (08/05/15 11:11 AM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22047530 -

Bigbadwooof said:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Foreign Policy & Defense

I believe that one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is national security.


Way to be bold, Rand. :rolleyes:


Lmao!!!

I believe one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is to govern!

Am I bold too?


You're practically a Maverick©


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22047627 -

The Ecstatic said:
Bigbadwooof said:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Foreign Policy & Defense

I believe that one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is national security.


Way to be bold, Rand. :rolleyes:


Lmao!!!

I believe one of the primary functions of the Federal Government is to govern!

Am I bold too?


You're practically a Maverick©


Thanks bro. Now I feel like Obama in your sig pic.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22050055 -

Here is some of Rand Pauls ideas, including saving social security, while cutting taxes across the board. No more 0% tax on corporations and no more 40% tax on mom and pop stores, a flat 14.5% tax.







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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22051441 -

I like him I really do but im drunk as hell and much more republican when drinking whisky after my hangover ill review this but im still going for bernie sanders because my word is bond. But I like the man what a magnificent beast.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22051450 -

Haha yeah I get the "word is my bond" the above videos are for everyone one else xD


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22051470 -

True true im probably just drunk but he seems chill. Something tells me he would kill a lot of people because bush seemed like that too then he killed jihadists. But who cares about iraq anyways its a shithole fuck them burning our flag though. I want to see what he says about weed in particular and reforming the criminal justice system because that's the two most important things that affect me on a daily basis.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22051498 -

thewanderer25 said:
True true im probably just drunk but he seems chill. Something tells me he would kill a lot of people because bush seemed like that too then he killed jihadists. But who cares about iraq anyways its a shithole fuck them burning our flag though. I want to see what he says about weed in particular and reforming the criminal justice system because that's the two most important things that affect me on a daily basis.



Here he is, he supports legalisation by letting states decide. He tried to pass a bill, recently, that would make it federal law to let states chose their own marijuana regulations.


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Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22052236 -

thewanderer25 said:
I like him I really do but im drunk as hell and much more republican when drinking whisky after my hangover ill review this but im still going for bernie sanders because my word is bond. But I like the man what a magnificent beast.


He has nice hair.  Nicer when I'm drunk.  Most rebups don't swing that way but maybe I'm stereotyping.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22073057 -

Problem is, we are in a global economy.  It's not easy at all for a single country, even one as big as the US, to just kinda go in a new direction and disconnect from all the pressure that comes from the global economy.  I don't think Presidents are ENTIRELY puppets, although they are heavily influenced, I just don't think the systems offers a lot of choices that don't have some really serious short term negative consequences. 

For instance, the US could decide to pay off all its Federal Reserve Notes Debt with a single check directly from the US Treasury with US Dollars (not federal reserve notes)  This is perfectly legal and it would effectively bring the US debt load to zero ... but the consequences from the global financial system would be extreme.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22073089 -

>the US could decide to pay off all its Federal Reserve Notes Debt with a single check directly from the US Treasury with US Dollars (not federal reserve notes)  This is perfectly legal and it would effectively bring the US debt load to zero

That's nonsense. Dollars are federal reserve notes. It sounds like you are proposing some sort of qe scheme which as you said, would not work.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22073106 -

Stonehenge said:
>the US could decide to pay off all its Federal Reserve Notes Debt with a single check directly from the US Treasury with US Dollars (not federal reserve notes)  This is perfectly legal and it would effectively bring the US debt load to zero

That's nonsense. Dollars are federal reserve notes. It sounds like you are proposing some sort of qe scheme which as you said, would not work.


The consequences are unknown, of course, but it is legal and it would work.  The US Government has the authority to print its own currency but currently (since 1913) has chosen to "rent" it from the Federal Reserve.  If they wanted, they could simply mint a 10 Trillion dollar coin, take it to the Federal Reserve and settle the account.  They could effectively cancel out all the Federal Reserve Notes and replace them with true US Treasury Dollars. 

It's been done before, BTW.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22073132 -

Doesn't that cause inflation, and devalue the US dollar nearly immediately?


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Achillita]
    #22073166 -

Achillita said:
Doesn't that cause inflation, and devalue the US dollar nearly immediately?


It would be a one for one swap, theoretically if the US said it would no longer honor Federal Reserve Notes.  The US would effectively be REPLACING Federal Reserve Notes with US Treasury Currency, which frankly, is exactly what is intended with the Constitution. 

Of course, the bigger unknown is how would Congress manage the money supply?  It would then be subject to the obvious issues of the political cycle which is likely the biggest benefit of having a central bank that exists, to some extent, outside that cycle. 

A better solution would be for the US to gradually introduce a COMPETING currency with US Treasury Dollars that are NOT debt based. ... Lincoln and Kennedy both did this and I'm not suggesting they were killed because of it, but the following President eliminated the new issuing of those US Treasury Dollars immediately upon taking office.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22073252 -

KauaiOrca said:
Problem is, we are in a global economy.  It's not easy at all for a single country, even one as big as the US, to just kinda go in a new direction and disconnect from all the pressure that comes from the global economy.  I don't think Presidents are ENTIRELY puppets, although they are heavily influenced, I just don't think the systems offers a lot of choices that don't have some really serious short term negative consequences. 

For instance, the US could decide to pay off all its Federal Reserve Notes Debt with a single check directly from the US Treasury with US Dollars (not federal reserve notes)  This is perfectly legal and it would effectively bring the US debt load to zero ... but the consequences from the global financial system would be extreme.


If Obama isn't a puppet, he's the biggest hypocrite of all time.  So what is it, is he a puppet, a hypocrite, or just incompetent?

Why has the largest gap in wealth and income inequality (in 80 years) occurred under his term?  I thought he was the President for the disadvantaged?  What happened?

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: qman]
    #22073314 -

qman said:
KauaiOrca said:
Problem is, we are in a global economy.  It's not easy at all for a single country, even one as big as the US, to just kinda go in a new direction and disconnect from all the pressure that comes from the global economy.  I don't think Presidents are ENTIRELY puppets, although they are heavily influenced, I just don't think the systems offers a lot of choices that don't have some really serious short term negative consequences. 

For instance, the US could decide to pay off all its Federal Reserve Notes Debt with a single check directly from the US Treasury with US Dollars (not federal reserve notes)  This is perfectly legal and it would effectively bring the US debt load to zero ... but the consequences from the global financial system would be extreme.


If Obama isn't a puppet, he's the biggest hypocrite of all time.  So what is it, is he a puppet, a hypocrite, or just incompetent?

Why has the largest gap in wealth and income inequality (in 80 years) occurred under his term?  I thought he was the President for the disadvantaged?  What happened?


What happened was the beginning of socialism.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22073348 -

DottoreWolfe said:
qman said:
KauaiOrca said:
Problem is, we are in a global economy.  It's not easy at all for a single country, even one as big as the US, to just kinda go in a new direction and disconnect from all the pressure that comes from the global economy.  I don't think Presidents are ENTIRELY puppets, although they are heavily influenced, I just don't think the systems offers a lot of choices that don't have some really serious short term negative consequences. 

For instance, the US could decide to pay off all its Federal Reserve Notes Debt with a single check directly from the US Treasury with US Dollars (not federal reserve notes)  This is perfectly legal and it would effectively bring the US debt load to zero ... but the consequences from the global financial system would be extreme.


If Obama isn't a puppet, he's the biggest hypocrite of all time.  So what is it, is he a puppet, a hypocrite, or just incompetent?

Why has the largest gap in wealth and income inequality (in 80 years) occurred under his term?  I thought he was the President for the disadvantaged?  What happened?


What happened was the beginning of socialism.


There's no more socialism than when he started, there's plenty of crony capitalism, but not more socialism.

More socialism wouldn't have created the massive wealth disparity we have today.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22073475 -

KO, all you are saying is lets repudiate all the money in circulation. Depositing a $10T note or coin does nothing. It would mean usa cash was worthless and no longer honored which would be the end of our economy and plunge the world into a major depression. If you are saying people could trade in the usual currency for some new currency, I don't see any advantage to that. You are clear as mud.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: qman] * 1
    #22073543 -

Yeah, I would say there is more socialism namely because of socialized healthcare. There is plenty of capitalism, but now there is a little less. And yes I believe more socialism would have created the massive wealth disparity we see today. Look at almost any country that are socialist/capitalist cuba, laos, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Guyana, India, Democratic people's republic of Korea, sri lanka and Tanzania). And whilst capitalism and socialism aren't truly mutually exclusive, undoubtedly they affect one another. Compare these socialist countries with the most capitalist countries in the world US, Japan, New Zealand, Western Europe, Australia, Germany, China, UK, etc., And you will see a trend which proclaims that while some Capitalist countries may have a huge wealth gap, they also tend to have a far greater standards of living compared to non capitalist countries.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22073580 -

Flat taxes, fair taxes, and any other newspeak variant of the two only serves the wealthy. Anybody who doesn't see that should unplug their internet.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22073587 -

DottoreWolfe said:
qman said:
KauaiOrca said:
Problem is, we are in a global economy.  It's not easy at all for a single country, even one as big as the US, to just kinda go in a new direction and disconnect from all the pressure that comes from the global economy.  I don't think Presidents are ENTIRELY puppets, although they are heavily influenced, I just don't think the systems offers a lot of choices that don't have some really serious short term negative consequences. 

For instance, the US could decide to pay off all its Federal Reserve Notes Debt with a single check directly from the US Treasury with US Dollars (not federal reserve notes)  This is perfectly legal and it would effectively bring the US debt load to zero ... but the consequences from the global financial system would be extreme.


If Obama isn't a puppet, he's the biggest hypocrite of all time.  So what is it, is he a puppet, a hypocrite, or just incompetent?

Why has the largest gap in wealth and income inequality (in 80 years) occurred under his term?  I thought he was the President for the disadvantaged?  What happened?


What happened was the beginning of socialism.


The beginning of socialism in America started long before Obama's grandparents were born.


--------------------

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22073594 -

The Ecstatic said:
Flat taxes, fair taxes, and any other newspeak variant of the two only serves the wealthy. Anybody who doesn't see that should unplug their internet.


If government should treat everyone as equals, then why should some people pay a higher percentage? I am all for deductions, but a flat tax is the only true fair system.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22073607 -

DottoreWolfe said:
The Ecstatic said:
Flat taxes, fair taxes, and any other newspeak variant of the two only serves the wealthy. Anybody who doesn't see that should unplug their internet.


If government should treat everyone as equals, then why should some people pay a higher percentage? I am all for deductions, but a flat tax is the only true fair system.


The only true fair system is communism.
















Now being fair doesn't sound so appealing does it?


--------------------

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22073621 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Yeah, I would say there is more socialism namely because of socialized healthcare. There is plenty of capitalism, but now there is a little less. And yes I believe more socialism would have created the massive wealth disparity we see today. Look at almost any country that are socialist/capitalist cuba, laos, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Guyana, India, Democratic people's republic of Korea, sri lanka and Tanzania). And whilst capitalism and socialism aren't truly mutually exclusive, undoubtedly they affect one another. Compare these socialist countries with the most capitalist countries in the world US, Japan, New Zealand, Western Europe, Australia, Germany, China, UK, etc., And you will see a trend which proclaims that while some Capitalist countries may have a huge wealth gap, they also tend to have a far greater standards of living compared to non capitalist countries.



"because of socialized health care"

The ACA is NOT socialized health care, it's private companies making profits for shareholders, that's not socialism.  The fact that these private companies are sometimes being subsidized by the taxpayer still doesn't make it socialism, it's crony capitalism. 

If you're attempting to make the case the capitalism creates a direct correlation to prosperity and socialism creates poverty you have failed.

Germany, France, Netherlands, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK, are considered to practice socialism in many aspects, I don't think anyone would say they have the massive wealth inequality the US has today.

Cuba and those other third world nations are only socialist in name only, they're basically very poor countries under dictatorships.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22073674 -

Stonehenge said:
KO, all you are saying is lets repudiate all the money in circulation. Depositing a $10T note or coin does nothing. It would mean usa cash was worthless and no longer honored which would be the end of our economy and plunge the world into a major depression. If you are saying people could trade in the usual currency for some new currency, I don't see any advantage to that. You are clear as mud.


Not repudiate, replace.  The Federal Reserve Notes in circulation are all borrowed and the US government pays interest on it as to most of us in one way or another. 

The Treasury has authority to issue currency directly, without borrowing from the Central Bank.  I think most people don't understand how that works.  Nor do they understand fractional reserve banking that creates enormous levels of debt, inflation, etc.

Instead, the Treasury could simply issue currency directly, replace federal reserve notes and would not be saddled with ANY interest payments  to the Federal Reserve.  For perspective, right now, interest on the debt is 350 billion a year.  If the US Treasury issued currency directly that problem would be eliminated.  Other problems would be created of course.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22073716 -

KauaiOrca said:
Stonehenge said:
KO, all you are saying is lets repudiate all the money in circulation. Depositing a $10T note or coin does nothing. It would mean usa cash was worthless and no longer honored which would be the end of our economy and plunge the world into a major depression. If you are saying people could trade in the usual currency for some new currency, I don't see any advantage to that. You are clear as mud.


Not repudiate, replace.  The Federal Reserve Notes in circulation are all borrowed and the US government pays interest on it as to most of us in one way or another. 

The Treasury has authority to issue currency directly, without borrowing from the Central Bank.  I think most people don't understand how that works.  Nor do they understand fractional reserve banking that creates enormous levels of debt, inflation, etc.

Instead, the Treasury could simply issue currency directly, replace federal reserve notes and would not be saddled with ANY interest payments  to the Federal Reserve.  For perspective, right now, interest on the debt is 350 billion a year.  If the US Treasury issued currency directly that problem would be eliminated.  Other problems would be created of course.


The Fed can also buy all the T-bonds they want, currently the interest paid on the bonds owned by the Fed goes back to the Treasury, so in fact we already have a small percentage of the total debt that is interest free, who knows how much more US debt the Fed will buy down the road.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: qman]
    #22073735 -

qman said:
The Fed can also buy all the T-bonds they want, currently the interest paid on the bonds owned by the Fed goes back to the Treasury, so in fact we already have a small percentage of the total debt that is interest free, who knows how much more US debt the Fed will buy down the road.


They can, but it's disruptive and must, of course, fit within their two part mandate.  The real question is how is the FED going to get rid of all those bonds?  What is the exit strategy.  No one seems to know that.

I think a gradually introduced alternative currency as Lincoln and Kennedy tried is the best answer.  Slowly.  Replace 10% a year over a 10 year time frame until we owe the Federal Reserve nothing then just phase it out.  Appoint a non partisan board to oversea the treasury management of the money supply and get out of all these ginormous debt payments to the Federal Reserve. 

When Interest rates normalize, the US payment on the debt could go as high as 700 billion a year.  That's game over for our economy. Done.  Finished.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22073772 -

KauaiOrca said:
qman said:
The Fed can also buy all the T-bonds they want, currently the interest paid on the bonds owned by the Fed goes back to the Treasury, so in fact we already have a small percentage of the total debt that is interest free, who knows how much more US debt the Fed will buy down the road.


They can, but it's disruptive and must, of course, fit within their two part mandate.  The real question is how is the FED going to get rid of all those bonds?  What is the exit strategy.  No one seems to know that.

I think a gradually introduced alternative currency as Lincoln and Kennedy tried is the best answer.  Slowly.  Replace 10% a year over a 10 year time frame until we owe the Federal Reserve nothing then just phase it out.  Appoint a non partisan board to oversea the treasury management of the money supply and get out of all these ginormous debt payments to the Federal Reserve. 

When Interest rates normalize, the US payment on the debt could go as high as 700 billion a year.  That's game over for our economy. Done.  Finished.


Exit strategy?  What about the JOP, BOE, ECB, China and other central bankers?  They could all cancel the debt after they load up their balance sheets, the fact the everybody is doing the same policy seems to balance things out.

"When Interest rates normalize"

It could be many decades before that happens, look at Japan, how many decades have they been at 0-1%? All developed economies have overcapacity and weak demand, that's not a scenario for inflation and higher interest rates. Globalization has changed the idea that higher rates have to come anytime soon.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: qman]
    #22074009 -

qman said:
KauaiOrca said:
qman said:
The Fed can also buy all the T-bonds they want, currently the interest paid on the bonds owned by the Fed goes back to the Treasury, so in fact we already have a small percentage of the total debt that is interest free, who knows how much more US debt the Fed will buy down the road.


They can, but it's disruptive and must, of course, fit within their two part mandate.  The real question is how is the FED going to get rid of all those bonds?  What is the exit strategy.  No one seems to know that.

I think a gradually introduced alternative currency as Lincoln and Kennedy tried is the best answer.  Slowly.  Replace 10% a year over a 10 year time frame until we owe the Federal Reserve nothing then just phase it out.  Appoint a non partisan board to oversea the treasury management of the money supply and get out of all these ginormous debt payments to the Federal Reserve. 

When Interest rates normalize, the US payment on the debt could go as high as 700 billion a year.  That's game over for our economy. Done.  Finished.


Exit strategy?  What about the JOP, BOE, ECB, China and other central bankers?  They could all cancel the debt after they load up their balance sheets, the fact the everybody is doing the same policy seems to balance things out.

"When Interest rates normalize"

It could be many decades before that happens, look at Japan, how many decades have they been at 0-1%? All developed economies have overcapacity and weak demand, that's not a scenario for inflation and higher interest rates. Globalization has changed the idea that higher rates have to come anytime soon.


Without some increase in interest rates how do you propose the Central Bank(s) will deal with the next recession as a result of the economic cycle?  They'll have no ammo to deal with it.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22074089 -

The Ecstatic said:
DottoreWolfe said:
The Ecstatic said:
Flat taxes, fair taxes, and any other newspeak variant of the two only serves the wealthy. Anybody who doesn't see that should unplug their internet.


If government should treat everyone as equals, then why should some people pay a higher percentage? I am all for deductions, but a flat tax is the only true fair system.


The only true fair system is communism.
















Now being fair doesn't sound so appealing does it?



How is communism "fair"? That is the most ludicrous idea I've heard in months.
Well it's not. It's a ludicrous idea and leads to ludicrous outcomes.
The idea that a government could ever hope to fulfil the needs of a modern developed society is plain silly.
For example, can you imagine any bureaucrat deciding people need PlayStation's or a 100 different types of breakfast cereal!
People want choice, variety and a lot of trivial things that no system of state control could deliver. It's competition to supply those wants that create progress and quality of life for the people.
Because people want those things and Communism can't deliver them, Communist states always resort to repression and violence.
Stupid idea that did not work, does not work and will never work.

  Communism like both fascism & the 'free' market are ideals - so they can not and will not work.
Take a peak at the free market hypothesis it will never happen.
Why should someone who works hard their whole life go to school, specialize and come out and work 9-9 everyday be paid even on the same level as Joe Shmo who has not lifted a finger and just smokes weed all day? Why should a neurosurgeon or a heart surgeon who studied everyday, had no real "childhood", made sacrafices you wouldn't dream of be paid even somewhat similarly to a cashier?

Communism does not respect individual rights only collective rights.

Communism does not consider morality in absolute terms. They see it in relative terms. That means instead of the traditional Biblical way of God being the final arbiter of right and wrong, they accept that there is no God and the State is the arbiter of right and wrong. That allows them to change the meaning in anyway that is convenient for the Government. If they choose to kill people that are old, infirm or otherwise deemd unproductive, they can decide that that is the moral thing to do. If they decide to take everything a farmer produces for the "common good" that is then the moral thing to do.

In Communism the theory is that there is no private property and everyone owns everything. In reality, no one owns anything, not even their own bodies. Everything belongs to the State.

Communism is not capable of generating wealth. It is basically a system of rationing existing wealth. There is no chance of improvement.

Communism does not respect human life. Individuals are inferior to the "collective".

In Communism there can be no free speech, free thought or free press. There can be no religion at all. Children do not belong to thier parents but are indoctrinated from birth to put the Collective above their own families and themselves.

It is supposed to be a classless society but the reality is, again, way different. There are actually two classes: the ruling class and everyone else.
Why not just buy a red rag, fix it round your throat, and concede you are happy to never have the right to freedom of speech, of association, language - read the writing of Mao, head bent, like a good communist and forgo the protest in the street with those "activist freedom seekers"
They were shot dead
Argument enough?
Communism has never been voted in; it's always forced upon a population.

To keep everyone under communist control 100 million people were killed in the past century (and that's people solely killed by their own government) just so communists could remain in power.

There is no freedom in communism, only government control.

There is no choice in communism. You must do exactly what the governments tells you to do when they tell you to do it.

There are no good restaurants, no malls, monitored and censored on cell phones, monitored and censored on the internet, no 500 cable TV channels, no new cars, no new homes, and no stocked refrigerators under communism. Everyone is equally poor with no material things allowed

Communism fails because it typically expends the investment capital so economic progress stops; and it discourages workers by not rewarding them according to their productivity


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


Edited by DottoreWolfe (08/10/15 11:09 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22074111 -

KauaiOrca said:
qman said:
KauaiOrca said:
qman said:
The Fed can also buy all the T-bonds they want, currently the interest paid on the bonds owned by the Fed goes back to the Treasury, so in fact we already have a small percentage of the total debt that is interest free, who knows how much more US debt the Fed will buy down the road.


They can, but it's disruptive and must, of course, fit within their two part mandate.  The real question is how is the FED going to get rid of all those bonds?  What is the exit strategy.  No one seems to know that.

I think a gradually introduced alternative currency as Lincoln and Kennedy tried is the best answer.  Slowly.  Replace 10% a year over a 10 year time frame until we owe the Federal Reserve nothing then just phase it out.  Appoint a non partisan board to oversea the treasury management of the money supply and get out of all these ginormous debt payments to the Federal Reserve. 

When Interest rates normalize, the US payment on the debt could go as high as 700 billion a year.  That's game over for our economy. Done.  Finished.


Exit strategy?  What about the JOP, BOE, ECB, China and other central bankers?  They could all cancel the debt after they load up their balance sheets, the fact the everybody is doing the same policy seems to balance things out.

"When Interest rates normalize"

It could be many decades before that happens, look at Japan, how many decades have they been at 0-1%? All developed economies have overcapacity and weak demand, that's not a scenario for inflation and higher interest rates. Globalization has changed the idea that higher rates have to come anytime soon.


Without some increase in interest rates how do you propose the Central Bank(s) will deal with the next recession as a result of the economic cycle?  They'll have no ammo to deal with it.


It's a great question, what will they do if the economy enters official recession/the stock markets tank?  I think the first response will be more QE, but what will the buying of more US T-bonds or mortgage bonds really accomplish this time?

The first thing to remember is these boys have more tricks up their sleeve than we can imagine, we know one thing for sure, they will protect themselves before worrying about the masses.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: qman]
    #22074493 -

I like good old fashioned anarchy not communism not socialism just straight up anarchy. Like if I want to sit on top of a hotel with a beer in one hand and a gun in the other thats fine. Or have an issue with somebody then kill them. Were fucking animals deep down so we should behave like it.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22074594 -

thewanderer25 said:
I like good old fashioned anarchy not communism not socialism just straight up anarchy. Like if I want to sit on top of a hotel with a beer in one hand and a gun in the other thats fine. Or have an issue with somebody then kill them. Were fucking animals deep down so we should behave like it.


Libertarianism is your solution, controlled anarchy, minimum government=Maximum freedom


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: thewanderer25]
    #22074623 -

The problem is, when poltiicians realize they gain huge amounts of power by centralizing everthing, then both socialism and free market capitalism regress into a system called 'state capitalism'  from wiki:

"state capitalism may be used (sometimes interchangeably with state monopoly capitalism) to describe a system where the state intervenes in the economy to protect and advance the interests of large-scale businesses. This practice is often claimed to be in contrast with the ideals of both socialism and laissez-faire capitalism.[4]"  That is the situation Russia was in, and the situation the US is headed for.  How many people who claim to be socialist are pushing for the state to control everything?  BAD IDEA.

Oh, and the 'Free Stuff' people get? that is just a bone thrown from the table of the elitists to keep the good little puppy dogs wagging their tales.  as was once said,, "We are only 3 meals away from revolution...."


state capitalism is the system, along with tyrannic dictatorship, that the constitution was designed to prevent.  To bad people have become convinced we would benefit by destroying it.

Face it, when shit hits the fan someday, all you fuckers are going end up riding into the countryside locked inside cattle cars.  You'll see me only after they pry my gun from my cold dead fingers.  :smirk:


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22074649 -

DottoreWolfe said:
Yeah, I would say there is more socialism namely because of socialized healthcare. There is plenty of capitalism, but now there is a little less. And yes I believe more socialism would have created the massive wealth disparity we see today. Look at almost any country that are socialist/capitalist cuba, laos, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Guyana, India, Democratic people's republic of Korea, sri lanka and Tanzania). And whilst capitalism and socialism aren't truly mutually exclusive, undoubtedly they affect one another. Compare these socialist countries with the most capitalist countries in the world US, Japan, New Zealand, Western Europe, Australia, Germany, China, UK, etc., And you will see a trend which proclaims that while some Capitalist countries may have a huge wealth gap, they also tend to have a far greater standards of living compared to non capitalist countries.



We don't have anything close to Socialized healthcare. We have the most Capitalistic form of healthcare possible with any sort of government intervention. You Libertarians like to act as though economic and political institutions are not intertwined, or not meant to be, but they are, and always will be.

Interestingly enough, that picture you posted sums up the negative impact of capitalism quite nicely. Capitalist countries are swallowing up the world, and they've been impoverishing Africa for what, a century now? Stealing their natural resources, and leaving them to starve.

There are two different ways that Socialism arises. Firstly, it can arise via violent revolution, which usually places a dictator in power, as we've seen in Russia, China, and Cuba. This always ends terribly. Then there is the democratic route, which forms a Socialist party, and takes the government democratically, preserving the balance of power, and revolutionizing the country in a voluntary way.

When we talk about democratic Socialism, we're talking about countries like Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Germany, and France. Sure, they still have many Capitalist elements to them, but they have a strong Socialist backbone. Public college level education, high minimum wage, public healthcare, and of course Germany's genius worker councils, which mandate a form of unionization without corrupt union bosses. These countries are doing better than the US in many respects, and it is certainly noteworthy.

What you have to understand is that nobody is advocating USSR style 'Socialism', and furthermore, our country is very far from Socialist. This is a lie that right wingers have been spreading for a while now.

You can argue that Socialist principles are immoral, because you are not allowing people to become multi-billionaires and dominate the world, that's your right, and your obligation as a Libertarian. However, don't try to make the argument that Capitalism is the economic structure for the poor, because it is not. Clearly Socialism levels the wealth gap far better than Capitalism, that's not up for debate. If you think it is, then you don't understand economics very well.

Interestingly enough, in the not-so-distant future we will have robots and machinery taking over more and more jobs, and at some point we will reach a post-work era, in which Socialism will be the only economic structure that could possibly work.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22074680 -

Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
Yeah, I would say there is more socialism namely because of socialized healthcare. There is plenty of capitalism, but now there is a little less. And yes I believe more socialism would have created the massive wealth disparity we see today. Look at almost any country that are socialist/capitalist cuba, laos, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Guyana, India, Democratic people's republic of Korea, sri lanka and Tanzania). And whilst capitalism and socialism aren't truly mutually exclusive, undoubtedly they affect one another. Compare these socialist countries with the most capitalist countries in the world US, Japan, New Zealand, Western Europe, Australia, Germany, China, UK, etc., And you will see a trend which proclaims that while some Capitalist countries may have a huge wealth gap, they also tend to have a far greater standards of living compared to non capitalist countries.



We don't have anything close to Socialized healthcare. We have the most Capitalistic form of healthcare possible with any sort of government intervention. You Libertarians like to act as though economic and political institutions are not intertwined, or not meant to be, but they are, and always will be.

Interestingly enough, that picture you posted sums up the negative impact of capitalism quite nicely. Capitalist countries are swallowing up the world, and they've been impoverishing Africa for what, a century now? Stealing their natural resources, and leaving them to starve.

There are two different ways that Socialism arises. Firstly, it can arise via violent revolution, which usually places a dictator in power, as we've seen in Russia, China, and Cuba. This always ends terribly. Then there is the democratic route, which forms a Socialist party, and takes the government democratically, preserving the balance of power, and revolutionizing the country in a voluntary way.

When we talk about democratic Socialism, we're talking about countries like Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Germany, and France. Sure, they still have many Capitalist elements to them, but they have a strong Socialist backbone. Public college level education, high minimum wage, public healthcare, and of course Germany's genius worker councils, which mandate a form of unionization without corrupt union bosses. These countries are doing better than the US in many respects, and it is certainly noteworthy.

What you have to understand is that nobody is advocating USSR style 'Socialism', and furthermore, our country is very far from Socialist. This is a lie that right wingers have been spreading for a while now.

You can argue that Socialist principles are immoral, because you are not allowing people to become multi-billionaires and dominate the world, that's your right, and your obligation as a Libertarian. However, don't try to make the argument that Capitalism is the economic structure for the poor, because it is not. Clearly Socialism levels the wealth gap far better than Capitalism, that's not up for debate. If you think it is, then you don't understand economics very well.

Interestingly enough, in the not-so-distant future we will have robots and machinery taking over more and more jobs, and at some point we will reach a post-work era, in which Socialism will be the only economic structure that could possibly work.



"When we talk about democratic Socialism, we're talking about countries like Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Germany, and France." I love how you only use the countries that are exceptions to majorities of socialist countries. The dominant majority of socialist countries are in a terrible state of disarray, economically, politically and even morally. Venezuela, Greece, former USSR states (not Russia), many south east Asian countries, India, etc. There standards of living tend to be far lesser and their medicine and technological advancements lag similarly, if not more so. We can also see many examples wherein socialism leads to communism. Also with the increased taxes socialism in the US would require it would remove incentive for doing well.
Businesses go to where the easiest taxes are and were they can earn money. This why very few big companies are in a communist and socialist countries.

If you remove incentive for coming out with the new good product, then you will tend to fall behind. America was far ahead of canada in medical field (before ObamaCare), and they have socialist medical. Why would you spend 2 million dollars to test a drug when 60% of your income goes to the government, even more so when a few miles away, you only have to pay 30%.

While it is a good idea, it fails due to human greed.

Also, communism / socialism comes around when the middle class shifts into lower class, which is what is happening right now in America.

When you have a bell shaped populace, where the majority of your people are middle class, no one complains and everyone is happy. When the middle class shifts into the poor section, they want a better life, and they can get that by voting it in. And while it will look good for the first few years, it ends up dooming a nation.

So in short, it removes incentives for producing new products and bringing jobs into a country where there is a high tax, and high tax comes from socialism.

Also, the government is horrible with money. Look at the 3 socialist things we have now. Social security, medicare, and welfare. Many people complain about how people take advantage of these programs and how they aren't doing what they are suppose to be doing. So why do you think the government will do any better?

Also, when you give the government power, they have control. Lets take example if we nationalized the media industry (seeing as newspaper companies are going under). Now the government owns a media outlet and has approval on what can and can't be printed.

look at communist (some would say "socialist") china vs capitalist china. They are both in china right now. Part of china are free capitalist while a lot of north china is still communist. The communist/socialist section while they are doing fine, the southern china is becoming a world power of business.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22074703 -

DottoreWolfe said:
The idea that a government could ever hope to fulfil the needs of a modern developed society is plain silly.
For example, can you imagine any bureaucrat deciding people need PlayStation's or a 100 different types of breakfast cereal! People want choice, variety and a lot of trivial things that no system of state control could deliver. It's competition to supply those wants that create progress and quality of life for the people.


I didn't realize that playstations and 100 types of breakfast cereal were needs. Maslow fucked up! Honestly, most of these 'needs' are manufactured by marketing in order to create a materialistic self-loathing society that fills every void in their life with shit they don't need, often at the expense of the planet, and future generations.

Quote:
Because people want those things and Communism can't deliver them, Communist states always resort to repression and violence.
Stupid idea that did not work, does not work and will never work.


Marxian Communism has never been realized. Lenon tried, but Stalin didn't continue his work. You should really read up on Marx and Engels. Very interesting stuff, if you care to hear the other side of your argument. If you don't, there's no real point in discussing any of it.

However, I do not advocate Communism. The world isn't ready for that, and it wasn't back in USSR times either.



Communism does not respect individual rights only collective rights.

Quote:
Communism does not consider morality in absolute terms. They see it in relative terms. That means instead of the traditional Biblical way of God being the final arbiter of right and wrong, they accept that there is no God and the State is the arbiter of right and wrong.


God, in the traditional sense of the term, is clearly a fictitious character. A character of a uniquely distasteful caliber, I might add. Luckily, we've moved beyond using your special books examples of morality to define policy.

Quote:
That allows them to change the meaning in anyway that is convenient for the Government. If they choose to kill people that are old, infirm or otherwise deemd unproductive, they can decide that that is the moral thing to do. If they decide to take everything a farmer produces for the "common good" that is then the moral thing to do.


Communism isn't meant to have such a centralized power structure as we've seen in communist dictatorships. It is meant to be controlled by communities and workers. There are a lot of complicated ideas and understandings involved.

Quote:
In Communism the theory is that there is no private property and everyone owns everything. In reality, no one owns anything, not even their own bodies. Everything belongs to the State.


Not true. Firstly, private property under communist theory doesn't refer to personal possessions. It refers to private ownership of the means of production (ie. Factories). Also, the government isn't meant to own the people under Communism. You're speaking of dictatorship.

Quote:
Communism is not capable of generating wealth. It is basically a system of rationing existing wealth. There is no chance of improvement.



Communism has different aims than Capitalism. I would like to point out that Communist Russia made many scientific advancements. You can't act like they didn't do anything of value, because that is a lie. I should point out that I am not making the case the USSR style communism is any sort of standard we should aspire to, by the way.

Quote:
Communism does not respect human life. Individuals are inferior to the "collective".


Capitalism will murder an entire nation to make a buck.

Quote:
In Communism there can be no free speech, free thought or free press. There can be no religion at all.


This is a lie. You're referring to Fascism.

It is supposed to be a classless society but the reality is, again, way different. There are actually two classes: the ruling class and everyone else.

Quote:
Why not just buy a red rag, fix it round your throat, and concede you are happy to never have the right to freedom of speech, of association, language - read the writing of Mao, head bent, like a good communist and forgo the protest in the street with those "activist freedom seekers"


Don't act like Capitalist systems have never stifled protest. Our police tear gas peaceful protestors on college compasses, and fire rubber bullets and bean bags at them while donning riot gear and driving tanks down city streets.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22074740 -

DottoreWolfe said:
"When we talk about democratic Socialism, we're talking about countries like Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Germany, and France." I love how you only use the countries that are exceptions to majorities of socialist countries.


Firstly, it's not like I chose one obscure country. These are some of the most influential countries in the world, and they make up a significant portion of what we consider 'Socialism' today.

Also, these countries speak to my larger point about the method of imposing Socialism. Violent revolutions which place dictators at the helm always end poorly. Democratically elected Socialist parties are far more effective, and have lead to great success in the world. To ignore that is to be quite intellectually dishonest, or at least demonstrative of your confirmation bias.

Quote:
We can also see many examples wherein socialism leads to communism. Also with the increased taxes socialism in the US would require it would remove incentive for doing well.


That's a lie. Which country has moved from Socialism to Communism? Actual Communism has never existed, firstly, but moreover, I know of no country that has progressed from Capitalism, to Socialism, and then to Communism, as Marx suggested would happen.

If you step out of Liberland and look at reality, up until Reagans time America was doing fantastic. Tax rates were over 70% for decades. They're now lower than when Reagan was president, and our economy is in the shitter.

Trickle down is a LIE!. Stop drinking Reagan's koolaid.



Quote:
Businesses go to where the easiest taxes are and were they can earn money. This why very few big companies are in a communist and socialist countries.


Another lie. Germany has an incredible economy. The strongest in the EU, and they employ many Socialist principles. In fact, instead of union busting, they mandate a form of unionization.

Quote:
If you remove incentive for coming out with the new good product, then you will tend to fall behind. America was far ahead of canada in medical field (before ObamaCare), and they have socialist medical. Why would you spend 2 million dollars to test a drug when 60% of your income goes to the government, even more so when a few miles away, you only have to pay 30%.


Firstly, profit is profit. The government is not usurping all of the profit. Obamacare has not destroyed healthcare innovation in America, you're fucking loony dude. Did you know that in America you have to pay $80,000 for a treatment of 'Sofosbuvir' (the cure for Hep C), but you can go to India and get it for $300? We need healthcare reform, and government intervention.

Quote:
While it is a good idea, it fails due to human greed.


This should be the tag on a Capitalism plaque! lmao

Quote:
Also, communism / socialism comes around when the middle class shifts into lower class, which is what is happening right now in America.


Right, because the greedy Capitalists destroy the system, as Marx predicted. We will soon have Socialism, just you wait ;-)

Quote:
When you have a bell shaped populace, where the majority of your people are middle class, no one complains and everyone is happy. When the middle class shifts into the poor section, they want a better life, and they can get that by voting it in. And while it will look good for the first few years, it ends up dooming a nation.


Support this claim. I gave you a nice list of countries that have done this, and they are very successful. Denmark and Germany in particular.

Quote:
So in short, it removes incentives for producing new products and bringing jobs into a country where there is a high tax, and high tax comes from socialism.


"We want more minimum wage jobs" :dancer::lol:

Regardless, more trickle down propaganda. The free trade agreements are the real culprit here.

Quote:
Also, the government is horrible with money. Look at the 3 socialist things we have now. Social security, medicare, and welfare. Many people complain about how people take advantage of these programs and how they aren't doing what they are suppose to be doing. So why do you think the government will do any better?


If we taxed at a reasonable rate, these programs wouldn't be in trouble at all. Social Security and Medicare have been a godsend for America. So has welfare. These programs are not 'abused' on the scale your Libertarian leaders would have you believe. Social Security and Medicare are rights. We pay into them, and we deserve to get that money back. If the government weren't so busy wasting money on our military (Such as the $1 Trillion to develop a plane that doesn't work, and the Pentagon has stated it doesn't even need), we could focus on taking care of America.

Quote:
Also, when you give the government power, they have control. Lets take example if we nationalized the media industry (seeing as newspaper companies are going under). Now the government owns a media outlet and has approval on what can and can't be printed.


I would just like to point out that it's right-wingers who oppose net-neutrality. Big corporations control the media as it is. They push their agenda, and honestly, they are our Capitalist masters, not the government.

Regardless, Democratic Socialists don't oppose freedom of the press, so it's not worth talking about. It doesn't make your point at all, because this is an entirely different issue, which involves stifling dissent and free speech, which nobody wants.

Quote:
look at communist (some would say "socialist") china vs capitalist china. They are both in china right now. Part of china are free capitalist while a lot of north china is still communist. The communist/socialist section while they are doing fine, the southern china is becoming a world power of business.


Either you're trying to be disingenuous, which I have to assume you are, because you completely dismissed all of my many examples of democratic socialist countries which are flourishing, or you don't understand what the fuck you're talking about. China is not an example of the Socialism we're discussing. You call Communist China 'Socialist', because you're trying to further a point that is baseless.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22075061 -

I wonder how many here have actually read Marx or Adam Smith's writings on capitalism?    The idea that there are three choices for government ... socialism, communism and capitalism is utterly and completely ridiculous.  And the idea that the US has a pure form of capitalism is even MORE RIDICULOUS.  The US form of government is a combination of five distinct factors:

1. Militant nationalism
2. Predatory capitalism
3. Corporate collusion with government edging toward a takeover of government by corporations
4. Democratically elected Constitutional Republic political system
5. Socialism applied to retirement, health care, infrastructure and education

It is quite possible to have a democratic form of communism or socialism for that matter.  It is possible to have have communism without militant nationalism.  The Nazis were socialist with an extreme form of militant nationalism and the Soviets were communist with an extreme form of militant nationalism.  If anyone actually read Adam Smith you'd realize that capitalism is a system to actually give labor a much fairer percentage of the revenues generated by the private sector.  We now have a system where corporate CEO's are making 300 times as much as front line employees.  This number was more like 30 times in the 50's and 60's.  This is what predatory capitalism generates.

IMHO, it is militant nationalism that screws up all the political and economic systems because it extracts and consumes such a high percentage of wealth and creative potential from the country while generating layers and layers of secrecy that turns away from transparency at every intersection.

This extreme wealth gap has enabled a small number of corporations to amass enormous financial power and own/control the media, banking, energy distribution and weapons technology and most likely, our super secret space technology as well.  They fund politicians campaigns and have effectively turned politicians into employees that execute their policies.  Elections at the national level have become a form of PR for the masses as politicians become less and less responsive to the voter and more loyal to the campaign financers. 

Most people prefer a form of socialism + private property ownership + reasonable restraint on corporate power + democratically elected civilian control of military resources.  We all suffer when a tiny minority of people control the vast majority of wealth, resources and political power.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


Edited by KauaiOrca (08/11/15 07:26 AM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22075121 -

DottoreWolfe said:
thewanderer25 said:
I like good old fashioned anarchy not communism not socialism just straight up anarchy. Like if I want to sit on top of a hotel with a beer in one hand and a gun in the other thats fine. Or have an issue with somebody then kill them. Were fucking animals deep down so we should behave like it.


Libertarianism is your solution, controlled anarchy, minimum government=Maximum freedom


Libertarianism is how capatlism devolves back into fuedalsim.  Corporate fuedalsim to be specific.  Did you not read Ayn Rand?

I don't blame you if not.  She's a terrible writer.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22075132 -

paperbackwriter said:
Libertarianism is how capatlism devolves back into fuedalsim.  Corporate fuedalsim to be specific.  Did you not read Ayn Rand?

I don't blame you if not.  She's a terrible writer.


What America had in the late 1700's is much closer to what we would call "libertarianism" than anything we see today in our modern world.  And, we have a very well documented record of what that has "evolved" or "devolved" into.  America is not going in the direction of libertarianism.  We will continue down the path of socialism, predatory capitalism and a very aggressive type of militant nationalism.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22075163 -

Quote:
Capitalist countries are swallowing up the world, and they've been impoverishing Africa for what, a century now? Stealing their natural resources, and leaving them to starve.


The socialist European countries are the countries that have done the worst to Africa. But no, as long as your purpose is to blame capitalism, facts can gladly be thrown out of the window.


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:leaf: :usa:

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22075166 -

KO, we are not paying interest to the fed, we are paying interest to the holders of us treasuries. That's where the interest is going. Treasuries bought with qe may seem to be interest free but it is just basically counterfeiting. It creates more cash in circulation chasing the same amount of goods which in time will lead to inflation.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22075167 -

I don't believe we're going that direction.  I just see that Objectivism, Ayn Rand's philosophy, was mostly about allowing the super wealthy to do whatever the fuck they want.

That to me looks like the path to feudalism and I think people who follow Rand's philosophy should have some idea of what it is she envisioned.

There are forms of anarchist thought that don't concentrate power in the hands of the super wealthy.  Anarcho-syndicalism is one example.  Communalism is another.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Webster10]
    #22075177 -

Webster10 said:
Quote:
Capitalist countries are swallowing up the world, and they've been impoverishing Africa for what, a century now? Stealing their natural resources, and leaving them to starve.


The socialist European countries are the countries that have done the worst to Africa. But no, as long as your purpose is to blame capitalism, facts can gladly be thrown out of the window.


Virtually ALL Western nations, including the USA are part socialist and part capitalist.  There are no pure socialist nations in the Western world. 

It is the joining together of the military and for profit corporations to exploit resources wherever they can be found, but hopefully in undeveloped nations that has created a cycle of poverty in resource rich nations (Africa, for example).  The profits of these efforts are used to reward the political class that distorts the truth about what is really happening.

There is enough wealth, resources, information and technological know-how to turn our earth into a true utopia but the wealth class doesn't want this.  Instead, they want a massive servant class to provide for them as they pursue a god-like existence.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22075191 -

KauaiOrca said:
Webster10 said:
Quote:
Capitalist countries are swallowing up the world, and they've been impoverishing Africa for what, a century now? Stealing their natural resources, and leaving them to starve.


The socialist European countries are the countries that have done the worst to Africa. But no, as long as your purpose is to blame capitalism, facts can gladly be thrown out of the window.


Virtually ALL Western nations, including the USA are part socialist and part capitalist.  There are no pure socialist nations in the Western world. 

It is the joining together of the military and for profit corporations to exploit resources wherever they can be found, but hopefully in undeveloped nations that has created a cycle of poverty in resource rich nations (Africa, for example).  The profits of these efforts are used to reward the political class that distorts the truth about what is really happening.

There is enough wealth, resources, information and technological know-how to turn our earth into a true utopia but the wealth class doesn't want this.  Instead, they want a massive servant class to provide for them as they pursue a god-like existence.


Are the French more capitalistic than socialist? The Dutch? They are the ones who most royally fucked Africa. Whats your solution to the epidemic you'be described?


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:leaf: :usa:

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22075192 -

Stonehenge said:
KO, we are not paying interest to the fed, we are paying interest to the holders of us treasuries. That's where the interest is going. Treasuries bought with qe may seem to be interest free but it is just basically counterfeiting. It creates more cash in circulation chasing the same amount of goods which in time will lead to inflation.


Whoa Nellie.  How does the Federal Reserve generate their revenues?  Where exactly do you think they get their "profits" from in terms of interest payments?


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22075203 -

Instead of asking me what I think, you might do better to show some evidence of what you are claiming.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Webster10]
    #22075225 -

Webster10 said:
Are the French more capitalistic than socialist? The Dutch? They are the ones who most royally fucked Africa. Whats your solution to the epidemic you'be described?


The ratio of capitalism to socialism in Europe and the US would be an interesting discussion, I guess, but not sure it would lead anywhere.  It is most often militant nationalism joining forces with for profit corporations that has led to the exploitation of resources from weaker nations.

The solution? 

1. Dramatic reduction of military spending across the globe.  More diplomatic solutions to the problems of borders.
2. Establishing some very teethy global human rights standards that are enforced rigorously.
3. Reform of the afterlife salvation cult religions that push an apocalyptic end game that creates a bizarre from of insanity in our species enabling a "chosen people" belief system that creates very fertile ground for militant nationalism to root and grow.
4. A massive global infrastructure program to improve education, transportation and delivery of basic needs like fresh water, food, and supplies for housing to ALL humans on this planet
5. Establishing a global education standard that leads to every human learning at least 2 languages fluently ... so that ALL humans can eventually communicate with one another directly. 
6. Total and complete transparency on all levels with legal entities including government, business, charities, etc.  Begin with absolute transparency in the area of who funds political parties and candidates, what deals are made and who benefits from contributions.
7. Tax systems that reward a fair voluntary distribution of profits between owners, executives and labor.  Giving Labor a stronger voice in the corporate boardroom similar to what we see in Germany.
8. Putting into place more direct democracy principles similar to what we see in Switzerland, a country that, IMHO, has the most refined system of democracy on that planet.

That should get things started.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22075240 -

Stonehenge said:
Instead of asking me what I think, you might do better to show some evidence of what you are claiming.


The interest that the US pays on its debt eventually finds its way into the revenues of the Federal Reserve Bank.  That's how it works.  The Federal Reserve provides virtually unlimited credit to the US Treasury and in return they get paid interest on that debt.

Of course, the fractional reserve banking system is a big, big part of the problem as well, but that's another issue entirely.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22075278 -

KauaiOrca said:
Webster10 said:
Are the French more capitalistic than socialist? The Dutch? They are the ones who most royally fucked Africa. Whats your solution to the epidemic you'be described?


The ratio of capitalism to socialism in Europe and the US would be an interesting discussion, I guess, but not sure it would lead anywhere.  It is most often militant nationalism joining forces with for profit corporations that has led to the exploitation of resources from weaker nations.

The solution? 

1. Dramatic reduction of military spending across the globe.  More diplomatic solutions to the problems of borders.
2. Establishing some very teethy global human rights standards that are enforced rigorously.
3. Reform of the afterlife salvation cult religions that push an apocalyptic end game that creates a bizarre from of insanity in our species enabling a "chosen people" belief system that creates very fertile ground for militant nationalism to root and grow.
4. A massive global infrastructure program to improve education, transportation and delivery of basic needs like fresh water, food, and supplies for housing to ALL humans on this planet
5. Establishing a global education standard that leads to every human learning at least 2 languages fluently ... so that ALL humans can eventually communicate with one another directly. 
6. Total and complete transparency on all levels with legal entities including government, business, charities, etc.  Begin with absolute transparency in the area of who funds political parties and candidates, what deals are made and who benefits from contributions.
7. Tax systems that reward a fair voluntary distribution of profits between owners, executives and labor.  Giving Labor a stronger voice in the corporate boardroom similar to what we see in Germany.
8. Putting into place more direct democracy principles similar to what we see in Switzerland, a country that, IMHO, has the most refined system of democracy on that planet.

That should get things started.


I'm right there with you on runaway capitalism, but your first two points appear to be a contradiction.

Vastly reducing military spending seems like an impediment to enforcing strict human rights laws. What would be the mechanism of enforcing these laws? Vast economic sanction? I feel like that would only create factions of enemies.


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22075280 -

KO, I think you may be a tiny bit mixed up on one or two things.

>The interest that the US pays on its debt eventually finds its way into the revenues of the Federal Reserve Bank.  That's how it works.  The Federal Reserve provides virtually unlimited credit to the US Treasury and in return they get paid interest on that debt.

The usa debt is in the form of treasuries which are owed to individuals and foreign countries, not to the fed. Likewise, interest is owed to the owners of those treasuries, not to the fed. I'm not saying the fed does not make money, it does, but not in the way you are saying.

>1. Dramatic reduction of military spending across the globe.  More diplomatic solutions to the problems of borders.

Agreed

>2. Establishing some very teethy global human rights standards that are enforced rigorously.

A new world govt or even more pc enforcement than we already have? I say min standards that are encouraged, to hell with the teeth.

>3. Reform of the afterlife salvation cult religions that push an apocalyptic end game that creates a bizarre from of insanity in our species enabling a "chosen people" belief system that creates very fertile ground for militant nationalism to root and grow.

Now you want to do away with religion? How very communistic of you.

>4. A massive global infrastructure program to improve education, transportation and delivery of basic needs like fresh water, food, and supplies for housing to ALL humans on this planet

We already have it, improvements could be made. Sounds like you want an over arching world govt to administer all these things.

The rest sound good but the devil is in the details.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22075284 -

The Ecstatic said:
KauaiOrca said:
Webster10 said:
Are the French more capitalistic than socialist? The Dutch? They are the ones who most royally fucked Africa. Whats your solution to the epidemic you'be described?


The ratio of capitalism to socialism in Europe and the US would be an interesting discussion, I guess, but not sure it would lead anywhere.  It is most often militant nationalism joining forces with for profit corporations that has led to the exploitation of resources from weaker nations.

The solution? 

1. Dramatic reduction of military spending across the globe.  More diplomatic solutions to the problems of borders.
2. Establishing some very teethy global human rights standards that are enforced rigorously.
3. Reform of the afterlife salvation cult religions that push an apocalyptic end game that creates a bizarre from of insanity in our species enabling a "chosen people" belief system that creates very fertile ground for militant nationalism to root and grow.
4. A massive global infrastructure program to improve education, transportation and delivery of basic needs like fresh water, food, and supplies for housing to ALL humans on this planet
5. Establishing a global education standard that leads to every human learning at least 2 languages fluently ... so that ALL humans can eventually communicate with one another directly. 
6. Total and complete transparency on all levels with legal entities including government, business, charities, etc.  Begin with absolute transparency in the area of who funds political parties and candidates, what deals are made and who benefits from contributions.
7. Tax systems that reward a fair voluntary distribution of profits between owners, executives and labor.  Giving Labor a stronger voice in the corporate boardroom similar to what we see in Germany.
8. Putting into place more direct democracy principles similar to what we see in Switzerland, a country that, IMHO, has the most refined system of democracy on that planet.

That should get things started.


I'm right there with you on runaway capitalism, but your first two points appear to be a contradiction.

Vastly reducing military spending seems like an impediment to enforcing strict human rights laws. What would be the mechanism of enforcing these laws? Vast economic sanction? I feel like that would only create factions of enemies.


All 8 points work together.  You can't make one work without the others.  Direct democracy will have a HUGE impact on the other factors.  Ultimately, we need an economic system that can literally shut down the abusive leaders in a heartbeat.  This can only happen with a much larger global middle class.  As long as the vast majority of humans on this planet are poor, it creates the conditions for the political, wealth and military classes to collude.  We must find a way to get a much fairer distribution of profits between shareholders, executives and labor.  This, I feel, is the highest priority right now.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22076130 -

Agree 100%


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22076269 -

Stonehenge said:
KO, I think you may be a tiny bit mixed up on one or two things.

>The interest that the US pays on its debt eventually finds its way into the revenues of the Federal Reserve Bank.  That's how it works.  The Federal Reserve provides virtually unlimited credit to the US Treasury and in return they get paid interest on that debt.

The usa debt is in the form of treasuries which are owed to individuals and foreign countries, not to the fed. Likewise, interest is owed to the owners of those treasuries, not to the fed. I'm not saying the fed does not make money, it does, but not in the way you are saying.




You can slice and dice it any way you want but the bottom line is the more money the US Government borrows (through issuing more Treasuries) the more money the Federal Reserve Makes as a lender.  The system is complex, but more debt = more Federal Reserve Profits.  Right now, the Fed Balance sheet is holding over a trillion in Treasuries themselves as a result of QE.  To truly understand it all we'd have to bring in how member banks and fractional reserve banking works along with the fed lending window(s).  No need for that as I think we both know the score.  In simplest terms, the US rents its currency from the Federal Reserve Bank ... the more currency in circulation, the more rent is paid.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22076283 -

KauaiOrca said:
Stonehenge said:
KO, I think you may be a tiny bit mixed up on one or two things.

>The interest that the US pays on its debt eventually finds its way into the revenues of the Federal Reserve Bank.  That's how it works.  The Federal Reserve provides virtually unlimited credit to the US Treasury and in return they get paid interest on that debt.

The usa debt is in the form of treasuries which are owed to individuals and foreign countries, not to the fed. Likewise, interest is owed to the owners of those treasuries, not to the fed. I'm not saying the fed does not make money, it does, but not in the way you are saying.




You can slice and dice it any way you want but the bottom line is the more money the US Government borrows (through issuing more Treasuries) the more money the Federal Reserve Makes as a lender.  The system is complex, but more debt = more Federal Reserve Profits.  Right now, the Fed Balance sheet is holding over a trillion in Treasuries themselves as a result of QE.  To truly understand it all we'd have to bring in how member banks and fractional reserve banking works along with the fed lending window(s).  No need for that as I think we both know the score.  In simplest terms, the US rents its currency from the Federal Reserve Bank ... the more currency in circulation, the more rent is paid.


Orca could you go into greater details please?  I am ignorant of this and would like to learn more from someone who has knowledge in this matter.

Edited by WAN (08/11/15 01:03 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: WAN]
    #22076340 -

WAN said:
KauaiOrca said:
Stonehenge said:
KO, I think you may be a tiny bit mixed up on one or two things.

>The interest that the US pays on its debt eventually finds its way into the revenues of the Federal Reserve Bank.  That's how it works.  The Federal Reserve provides virtually unlimited credit to the US Treasury and in return they get paid interest on that debt.

The usa debt is in the form of treasuries which are owed to individuals and foreign countries, not to the fed. Likewise, interest is owed to the owners of those treasuries, not to the fed. I'm not saying the fed does not make money, it does, but not in the way you are saying.




You can slice and dice it any way you want but the bottom line is the more money the US Government borrows (through issuing more Treasuries) the more money the Federal Reserve Makes as a lender.  The system is complex, but more debt = more Federal Reserve Profits.  Right now, the Fed Balance sheet is holding over a trillion in Treasuries themselves as a result of QE.  To truly understand it all we'd have to bring in how member banks and fractional reserve banking works along with the fed lending window(s).  No need for that as I think we both know the score.  In simplest terms, the US rents its currency from the Federal Reserve Bank ... the more currency in circulation, the more rent is paid.


Orca could you go into greater details please?  I am ignorant of this and would like to learn more from someone who has knowledge in this matter.


I think this is a pretty good documentary overview of how the Federal Reserve and Fractional Reserve Banking work together to create the money supply for America.  It's a big topic and a lot of background is needed to understand it. 



If you're truly interested, this film will help you a lot.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22076351 -

KauaiOrca said:
Stonehenge said:
KO, I think you may be a tiny bit mixed up on one or two things.

>The interest that the US pays on its debt eventually finds its way into the revenues of the Federal Reserve Bank.  That's how it works.  The Federal Reserve provides virtually unlimited credit to the US Treasury and in return they get paid interest on that debt.

The usa debt is in the form of treasuries which are owed to individuals and foreign countries, not to the fed. Likewise, interest is owed to the owners of those treasuries, not to the fed. I'm not saying the fed does not make money, it does, but not in the way you are saying.




You can slice and dice it any way you want but the bottom line is the more money the US Government borrows (through issuing more Treasuries) the more money the Federal Reserve Makes as a lender.  The system is complex, but more debt = more Federal Reserve Profits.  Right now, the Fed Balance sheet is holding over a trillion in Treasuries themselves as a result of QE.  To truly understand it all we'd have to bring in how member banks and fractional reserve banking works along with the fed lending window(s).  No need for that as I think we both know the score.  In simplest terms, the US rents its currency from the Federal Reserve Bank ... the more currency in circulation, the more rent is paid.


Who receives the interest payments on the debt?  The bondholder.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: qman]
    #22076411 -

qman said:
Who receives the interest payments on the debt?  The bondholder.


The Federal Reserve is the largest single bond holder of US Treasuries with over 2.5 trillion held now on their balance sheet.  More than China, Japan or Saudi Arabia.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


Edited by KauaiOrca (08/11/15 01:30 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22076439 -

It all goes back into the treasury. You try to make it sound like the fed keeps the interest. If you have any evidence to the contrary, show it. Not just a link to a big website or hours long video, we need a quote backing your statement.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22076465 -

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/09/usa-fed-payments-idUSW1N0SO01420150109

"Federal Reserve banks turned a record $98.7 billion in profits to the US Treasury in 2014"

Like I said pages ago, interest free debt.

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22076476 -

Stonehenge said:
It all goes back into the treasury. You try to make it sound like the fed keeps the interest. If you have any evidence to the contrary, show it. Not just a link to a big website or hours long video, we need a quote backing your statement.


It doesn't all go back to the treasury, but a lot of it does.  The FED is a complex organization and it's impossible to know all the ways that the FED and its member banks profit from their unique charter.  What we do know is that the FED is more profitable than JP Morgan, Citibank, Bank of America and Goldman Sachs COMBINED.  More profitable than Apple or Exxon.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22076531 -

Bigbadwooof said:
DottoreWolfe said:
The idea that a government could ever hope to fulfil the needs of a modern developed society is plain silly.
For example, can you imagine any bureaucrat deciding people need PlayStation's or a 100 different types of breakfast cereal! People want choice, variety and a lot of trivial things that no system of state control could deliver. It's competition to supply those wants that create progress and quality of life for the people.


I didn't realize that playstations and 100 types of breakfast cereal were needs. Maslow fucked up! Honestly, most of these 'needs' are manufactured by marketing in order to create a materialistic self-loathing society that fills every void in their life with shit they don't need, often at the expense of the planet, and future generations.

Quote:
Because people want those things and Communism can't deliver them, Communist states always resort to repression and violence.
Stupid idea that did not work, does not work and will never work.


Marxian Communism has never been realized. Lenon tried, but Stalin didn't continue his work. You should really read up on Marx and Engels. Very interesting stuff, if you care to hear the other side of your argument. If you don't, there's no real point in discussing any of it.

However, I do not advocate Communism. The world isn't ready for that, and it wasn't back in USSR times either.



Communism does not respect individual rights only collective rights.

Quote:
Communism does not consider morality in absolute terms. They see it in relative terms. That means instead of the traditional Biblical way of God being the final arbiter of right and wrong, they accept that there is no God and the State is the arbiter of right and wrong.


God, in the traditional sense of the term, is clearly a fictitious character. A character of a uniquely distasteful caliber, I might add. Luckily, we've moved beyond using your special books examples of morality to define policy.

Quote:
That allows them to change the meaning in anyway that is convenient for the Government. If they choose to kill people that are old, infirm or otherwise deemd unproductive, they can decide that that is the moral thing to do. If they decide to take everything a farmer produces for the "common good" that is then the moral thing to do.


Communism isn't meant to have such a centralized power structure as we've seen in communist dictatorships. It is meant to be controlled by communities and workers. There are a lot of complicated ideas and understandings involved.

Quote:
In Communism the theory is that there is no private property and everyone owns everything. In reality, no one owns anything, not even their own bodies. Everything belongs to the State.


Not true. Firstly, private property under communist theory doesn't refer to personal possessions. It refers to private ownership of the means of production (ie. Factories). Also, the government isn't meant to own the people under Communism. You're speaking of dictatorship.

Quote:
Communism is not capable of generating wealth. It is basically a system of rationing existing wealth. There is no chance of improvement.



Communism has different aims than Capitalism. I would like to point out that Communist Russia made many scientific advancements. You can't act like they didn't do anything of value, because that is a lie. I should point out that I am not making the case the USSR style communism is any sort of standard we should aspire to, by the way.

Quote:
Communism does not respect human life. Individuals are inferior to the "collective".


Capitalism will murder an entire nation to make a buck.

Quote:
In Communism there can be no free speech, free thought or free press. There can be no religion at all.


This is a lie. You're referring to Fascism.

It is supposed to be a classless society but the reality is, again, way different. There are actually two classes: the ruling class and everyone else.

Quote:
Why not just buy a red rag, fix it round your throat, and concede you are happy to never have the right to freedom of speech, of association, language - read the writing of Mao, head bent, like a good communist and forgo the protest in the street with those "activist freedom seekers"


Don't act like Capitalist systems have never stifled protest. Our police tear gas peaceful protestors on college compasses, and fire rubber bullets and bean bags at them while donning riot gear and driving tanks down city streets.


In communism there will always be two classes, the ruling class and everyone else. Also playstations and choice in this day and age are too important to let go of. Playstations now are a means of social interactions which is on Maslow's hierarchy. Sure USSR got the first man to space, but capitalist America go the first man on the moon, the first probe past Saturn (past pluto now), invented cell phones, invented internet, invented nuclear bomb, achieved 99.9+% literacy, etc. etc. I'd claim America did more. Also why should everyone be equal? Why should a neuroseurgon who goes to school, studies hard and made sacrafices you or I wouldn't dream of be paid the same as Joe Shmo who smokes weed all day and doesn't lift a finger. That would be wrong to even consider they should have a similar quality of life, money is part of the fuel driving technological advancemnent. And as before mentioned (in a parevious post), very very few big businesses exist in a communist society, because why would they want to do business in a place where they can't make as much money. Without jobs and the stupid things we like (new computers, new technology, new cars, etc) people would revolt (especially after how accustomed to these things we have become). it basicallt stacks up that the government pays everyone the same wage no matter what job they do. The pay is very small.

People in power in the government pay themselves more.

Since everyone is paid the same, the only way to become rich is to steal. So if you work in a grocery store you might steal some bananas and sell them cheaply to a friend and make a couple bucks. This is the cause of horrible corruption because everyone steals something (this is exactly what happened to the Soviet Union).

Nobody works hard because you will not get paid more because of it, unless you are in the government controlling everything.  ideal communism should have no money, as it it works on an "honor system": everything is free but you take only what you need, and you work hard without any bosses or compensation schemes.

Soviet Union and other implementations of communism had money for workers, but essentially had money-less transfers of goods between firms. Wages did differ based on occupation and seniority. There was a weird situation when pay of engineers was less than pay of manual laborers. There is less incentive for people to work hard in moneyless society, there is less incentive to be the best you can because whether you are a cashier or a heart surgeon or a inventor there is no difference in quality of life. When a mom says "you need to do to good in school and try your best" the son will just reply "why? either way i'll have the same house, same car, same food, basically the same life. I know that personally I wouldn't be going to graduate school if I  wasn't going to get paid big bucks afterwards and have an improved quality of life for my children and I . You also say there is private ownership and Marxism and that is not true, maybe you need to reread, because Marxism does not allow private property as a rule. And though capitalist have fired rubber bullets on their own people during a "peaceful" protest, its a rare event, most protests go through without incident, not in a communist society. Read Mao....head bent, like a good communist and forgo the protest in the street with those "activist freedom seekers", they were shot.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality. These are simply my musings and abstracts - putting pen to paper so to speak.


Edited by DottoreWolfe (08/11/15 02:17 PM)

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22076592 -

DottoreWolfe said:
In communism there will always be two classes, the ruling class and everyone else. Also playstations and choice in this day and age are too important to let go of. Playstations now are a means of social interactions which is on Maslow's hierarchy. Sure USSR got the first man to space, but capitalist America go the first man on the moon, the first probe past Saturn (past pluto now) I'd claim America did more. Why should everyone be equal? Why should a neuroseurgon who goes to school, studies hard and made sacrafices you or I wouldn't dream of be paid the same as Joe Shmo who smokes weed all day and doesn't lift a finger. That would be wrong to even consider they should have a similar quality of life, money is part of the fuel driving technological advancemnent. And as before mentioned (in a parevious post), very very few big businesses exist in a communist society, because why would they want to do business in a place where they can't make as much money. Without jobs and the stupid things we like (new computers, new technology, new cars, etc) people would revolt (especially after how accustomed to these things we have become). it basicallt stacks up that the government pays everyone the same wage no matter what job they do. The pay is very small.

People in power in the government pay themselves more.

Since everyone is paid the same, the only way to become rich is to steal. So if you work in a grocery store you might steal some bananas and sell them cheaply to a friend and make a couple bucks. This is the cause of horrible corruption because everyone steals something (this is exactly what happened to the Soviet Union).

Nobody works hard because you will not get paid more because of it, unless you are in the government controlling everything.  ideal communism should have no money, as it it works on an "honor system": everything is free but you take only what you need, and you work hard without any bosses or compensation schemes.

Soviet Union and other implementations of communism had money for workers, but essentially had money-less transfers of goods between firms. Wages did differ based on occupation and seniority. There was a weird situation when pay of engineers was less than pay of manual laborers. There is less incentive for people to work hard in moneyless society, there is less incentive to be the best you can because whether you are a cashier or a heart surgeon or a inventor there is no difference in quality of life. When a mom says "you need to do to good in school and try your best" the son will just reply "why? either way i'll have the same house, same car, same food, basically the same life. I know that personally I wouldn't be going to graduate school if I  wasn't going to get paid big bucks afterwards and have an improved quality of life for my children and I .


Take away the militant nationalism aspect from Soviet Russia and their story would be quite different.  It is the ever expanding military spending that destroys the economies of most nations because all that spending does little if anything to improve the infrastructure of the country and nearly always has a huge element of waste associated with cronyism in terms of who makes the money on all those billions being spent. 

I'm certainly not advocating for communism as a blend democratic socialism and capitalism is, by far, the preferred form of government in our modern world and that's pretty much what we have in the USA.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22076720 -

IT isn't capitalism when a big centralized government makes rles and regulations that allow them to control what companies live and what companies die, when tools in suits who know NOTHING about various industries try to control them, nd when those same tools in government attack certain companies or enterprises in the name of 'fairness' 

The problem is, the governemnt is too big ad has too much control.  That is why the US oriinally had states rights--in the states is where the democracy is  Anyone who thinks more goverment with more rules and regulations is a winning plan has a fucking hole in their head and has been conned by the statists.

Enjoy your journey on the cattle cars to the camps.


--------------------

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22076806 -

>Anyone who thinks more goverment with more rules and regulations is a winning plan has a fucking hole in their head and has been conned by the statists.

You just described 98% of the left wingers on this site. We need sunset laws, repeal of many present laws, and pruning back govt severely.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Who Is Voting For Trump? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22076955 -

starfire_xes said:
IT isn't capitalism when a big centralized government makes rles and regulations that allow them to control what companies live and what companies die, when tools in suits who know NOTHING about various industries try to control them, nd when those same tools in government attack certain companies or enterprises in the name of 'fairness' 

The problem is, the governemnt is too big ad has too much control.  That is why the US oriinally had states rights--in the states is where the democracy is  Anyone who thinks more goverment with more rules and regulations is a winning plan has a fucking hole in their head and has been conned by the statists.

Enjoy your journey on the cattle cars to the camps.


There would be absolutely no need for rules and regulations if corporations could self govern themselves in a way that was ethical and in the best interest of the public good.  But unfortunately, that just doesn't often happen.  For example, Corporations have proven they will pollute (water, air, soil) to the maximum level allowable, regardless of the impact on the local population. 

It is the extreme short term drive for profits and the risk taking that generates that causes all kinds of fucked up behavior in corporations ... Look at all of the illegal activity that JP Morgan and other banks have been nailed for in the last 10 years.  How about all the cover ups at General Motors?  The BP oil spill?  It goes on and on and on. 

If corporations govern themselves ethically and with a real eye toward doing the right thing, then regulations will drop dramatically.  But they don't as their form of predatory capitalism gets worse and as such, the energy to regulate them gets more intense.  For the most part, they are causing their own problems with poor corporate governance.


--------------------
“Order is needed by the ignorant but it takes a genius to master chaos.”
― Einstein


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* Interesting (but long) article on electronic voting. luvdemshrooms 814 0 10/15/03 03:44 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* Evil Capitalists vs. Enlightened Statists
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 Evolving 7,269 63 11/01/02 08:19 AM
by Innvertigo
* The False Promise of Gun Control
( 1 2 all )		 Anonymous 4,126 23 04/16/03 05:53 PM
by pattern
* fuck bush and kerry...vote nader!!!
( 1 2 all )		 ABBAZABA 4,769 39 06/23/04 09:40 AM
by Ancalagon
* gun control
( 1 2 3 4 ... 11 12 all )		 Anonymous 16,762 223 10/08/03 12:45 AM
by Rose
* Whither Gun Control? luvdemshrooms 1,532 12 05/23/04 07:23 AM
by Xlea321

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