Tropism said:

freeskierpj said:

Blight said:

Personally, I think suicide is extremely selfish. I might be biased because I've been through a loss in that way. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. All issues someone has can be helped. The only thing it does is hurt the people that care about you IMO

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This. My girlfriend is semi-suicidal but I just remind her about all the people that would be so hurt (especially me) by that and I just calm her down.

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My current girlfriend has spoken repeatedly about not living past thirty, and though I used to find her to be mostly joking (and I'm still skeptical of her dedication to that commitment) now a days I find her to be serious enough to take her word. My response is usually that she's got to do what she's got to do, and while I'd inevitably miss her I think it'd be selfish to ask her to stay in this place just for those who can't fathom letting go of their attachments.

I find suicide is most harmful to those who surround death with negative associations, and usually those individuals feel such emotional turmoil when confronting death because they haven't even begun to try and accept their mortality. Someone close dying shoves the reality of that in ones face and it brings to surface all those feelings they had been running from.

Many argue against suicide because of the grief it causes but I don't find this any less selfish then the act itself. Grief isn't for the dead, it's for the living. When one spends months grieving over a lost friend I can only imagine they are consoling their own fears of impermanence. Their friend is gone, they decided what was best for them and went through with it, there's no reason to feel sorry for that. There is however endless reasons to feel sorry for ourselves, and this simply being one more.

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Great fucking post sir dude.

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People who kill themselves ruin peoples lives who loved them.

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Right, we should be supportive of our loved ones decisions until those decisions cause us harm. Check.

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Families do get messed up from that stuff,they'd have to clean out the persons room,seeing things that reminded them of the person,constatnly reminding them of it.

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All of this is temporary.
Everyone you know and love will die, you're going to have to move past your attachments to them eventually, this is a fact of life we all have to face. Cleaning out their room, while filled with sad reminiscence, is a way of moving on and accepting what is real.

Riddle me this. If you love someone and they want to die, wouldn't denying them  what they want for your own best interest be just as selfish a thing to do?

Jimtown said:

Okay,well not ruined but definitely changed for the worse. People get broke up over pets dying and as you can imagine it's the same for people dying too.

If you haven't noticed people care for people,not sure about you though. Is it lame to care about people?

Families do get messed up from that stuff,they'd have to clean out the persons room,seeing things that reminded them of the person,constantly reminding them of it.

Would you not agree with any of that?

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Icelander said:

Jimtown said:

Okay,well not ruined but definitely changed for the worse. People get broke up over pets dying and as you can imagine it's the same for people dying too.

If you haven't noticed people care for people,not sure about you though. Is it lame to care about people?

Families do get messed up from that stuff,they'd have to clean out the persons room,seeing things that reminded them of the person,constantly reminding them of it.

Would you not agree with any of that?

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My best friend (who was a dog) had bone cancer and I put him down.  I cried for two weeks straight.  Now several years later my best memory is that I put him down before he really suffered instead of being selfish and keeping him around because I felt life would suck without him.

So while it's true we may grieve over death that death is inevitable sooner or later and will have to be faced.  To mature in to full humanity one learns to accept loss as the price of doing business here.

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This is true but dogs can't do anything about their suffering. I fully agree with putting down pets/animals that are in physical pain,if you love the pet so much you should be able to let it go as it's the nice thing to do,put it out of it's misery.

People can(don't say it) do things about their suffering like voicing their problems instead of bottling them up. Think of cases where people come close to suicide but have a last minute change of heart and maybe remember something they used to live for. They might feel they've a new lease of life and are forever counting their lucky stars that they didn't go through with it.

Or you could you know,just do it but come on...

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The chemical balance in the brain starts to become unbalanced,depression sets in. I'd like to think that most hopeless cases could be brought back from the brink and they could again be happy or at least indifferent.

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"Riddle me this. If you love someone and they want to die, wouldn't denying them  what they want for your own best interest be just as selfish a thing to do? "

I believe it would be in their own best interests not to do it in the first place. If people would only share what's on their mind and what's bothering them then maybe they would be able to overcome it.

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Then it happens and all they wanted was for the person to open up.

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That way they'd have a clean conscience, knowing they'd have done all they could to help.

I'm not saying it isn't noble or whathaveyou to try and help people out, but I still think it's our own fears of death that lead us to believe living is somehow better off than not. Happy or otherwise.

Jimtown said:

Not sure I could help you there,any evidence would be from what I've seen and heard i.e. family members words and the people I've known who've done it.

5th highest youth suicide rate in Europe,there really are a lot of people who do it here.

I'd trust peoples words who knew the person best,they'd know the person is unhappy,they try and get them to talk but their lips are sealed.

Those close might actually have a thought that the person is suicidal and they'd hope they're not and would be wishing that it was only a thought. Then it happens and all they wanted was for the person to open up.

Not sure how much further I can go on without giving up physical evidence.

You don't need to read books to get insight into real life situations.

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In other words you're talking out your.  Very common in these parts.

Tropism said:

If you, my friend, had yourself convinced beyond talking down, I wouldn't try and stop you just for me. That in turn would simply make you feel even guiltier about your own inner desire to die.

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