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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: cellardoor]
#6723661 - 03/29/07 08:44 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
cellardoor said: my two cents: suicide is cowardly, its running away rather than confronting the "demon." it seems those that choose suicide are just unwilling to try to change their negative perspective. agony is relative. too fuckin bad that the upper-middle class people cant stand working in a cubicle, at least they have a home to return to at the end of the day, food to eat, and a bed to sleep in, not that suicide is excluded to the upper-middle class. but dont get me wrong, its their choice, and i agree with you guys, "If someone wants to kill themselves, then who am I to tell them that is wrong, or go off on some self-righteous crusade to enforce my beliefs and emotional attachments onto that person and try to override their life choice?" the leading cause of death is life. and theres always fate to consider...
This is a pretty black and white look at this issue. There are many reasons someone might kill themselves. Some might be cowardly and others take great courage.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Muppet]
#6723667 - 03/29/07 08:47 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilocyberin said: but in the end, death is death, and how it is reached or brought about affects the living
exactly
have you and I ever talked (in any detail or at all) about death, or, the absence of physical life?
Quote:
kotik said: perhaps those trying to prevent it are the selfish ones - they would rather convince the suicidal to put up with their agony day after day, so that they can feel better about themselves - and for "saving" a life.
hit the nail on the head. It's funny because most people see suicide itself as a selfish act (depriving the family of love and memories, bringing grief/misery to other's lives, disappointing others, etc...) when yet all the reasons they give are purely selfish, yet they are too blinded by these feelings to see it as selfishness.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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vigilant_mind
unfazed



Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: demiu5]
#6723802 - 03/29/07 09:30 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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My dad committed suicide when I was 10. I don't blame him one bit.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here



Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6724102 - 03/29/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: why is there such an urge to prevent it?
A few reasons off the top of my head:
- A person's suicide causes untold heartache to the friends and family of that person; some people think it is worth attempting to prevent that.
- Threats of suicide are most often appeals for attention or assistance. It isn't always a terrible idea to provide those two things to somebody in need.
- Even those seriously considering suicide can recover from their plight and go on to lead healthy, productive lives. Some consider this an acceptable, even desirable outcome for another person.
- Suicide is an act of violence, and many people don't like violence and will try to prevent it.
- To many, suicide is a tragedy, because it is a permanent, irreversible response to a problem which is almost certainly not permanent.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#6724127 - 03/29/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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A person's suicide causes untold heartache to the friends and family of that person; some people think it is worth attempting to prevent that.
I will always take exception to this one. No one causes another to suffer, that is always a choice. Some choose to suffer and some choose to understand. It's all a choice. If I had a love one who was suffering I would have to respect them as they are. If I did truly love them for themselves and not what they could do for me I would love them unconditionally and let them decide their fate and then I would hopefully rejoice in the fact that I loved them for who they were and always honored that. I would feel sad (as a choice maybe) for myself because I might miss them but as their friend I would never choose "untold suffering" as IMO that would dishonor them.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Icelander]
#6724147 - 03/29/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Even those seriously considering suicide can recover from their plight and go on to lead healthy, productive lives. Some consider this an acceptable, even desirable outcome for another person.
and some of them go on to "taking others with them". This assumes that what you consider a healthy, productive life is better than being dead.
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gregorio
Too Damn Old



Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,831
Loc: Classified
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Muppet]
#6724167 - 03/29/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Muppet said: yeah...but in MY case anyway - I'm pretty sure no one fucken cares if I'm here or not
I think you would be surprised in just how wrong you are.
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vigilant_mind
unfazed



Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6724170 - 03/29/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well, I'd say that preservation of the species plays a large role in our motivation for preventing suicide.
I'm naturally inclined to believe that a healthy, stable lifestyle is certainly more pleasing than death, but that is not ubiquitously applicable. For example, if I were to be quadriplegic, with third degree burns all over my body, I would be pissed as hell if I was kept from taking my own life. Others would selfishly try to keep me here, but that's not really fair now is it?
There are most certainly circumstances that are worse than death. I consider suicide to be ok in those particular situations.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: gregorio]
#6724178 - 03/29/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
gregorio said:
Quote:
Muppet said: yeah...but in MY case anyway - I'm pretty sure no one fucken cares if I'm here or not
I think you would be surprised in just how wrong you are.
Not important if others care. What is of great importance is if the poster cares.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6724181 - 03/29/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
vigilant_mind said: Well, I'd say that preservation of the species plays a large role in our motivation for preventing suicide.
I'm naturally inclined to believe that a healthy, stable lifestyle is certainly more pleasing than death, but that is not ubiquitously applicable. For example, if I were to be quadriplegic, with third degree burns all over my body, I would be pissed as hell if I was kept from taking my own life. Others would selfishly try to keep me here, but that's not really fair now is it?
There are most certainly circumstances that are worse than death. I consider suicide to be ok in those particular situations.
Right on! 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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gregorio
Too Damn Old



Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,831
Loc: Classified
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Icelander]
#6724187 - 03/29/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Icelander said: A person's suicide causes untold heartache to the friends and family of that person; some people think it is worth attempting to prevent that.
I will always take exception to this one. No one causes another to suffer, that is always a choice.
You wanna bet?

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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:
why is there such an urge to prevent it?
Generally, you don't want the ones you care for and love to die...
yeah seriously. If any thing, you should be pissed about how society enables feelings like this to occur. Narcissism within a family, parents not spending enough time with their kids.. suicide. Those who live through suicidal tendancies are usually relieved that they didn't go through it. Most of the time they're just seeking attention by the idea of suicide as a means to get that attention.
now euthanasia(however it's spelled) I think that's fucked up how the elderly are not allowed to end their lives if they so desire. Then again, what do I know. Rules and regulations may or may not work in our favor but if you have such a problem with it then why don't you go become a politician and do something about it.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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WhiskeyClone
Not here



Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Icelander]
#6724205 - 03/29/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: A person's suicide causes untold heartache to the friends and family of that person; some people think it is worth attempting to prevent that.
I will always take exception to this one. No one causes another to suffer, that is always a choice. Some choose to suffer and some choose to understand. It's all a choice. If I had a love one who was suffering I would have to respect them as they are. If I did truly love them for themselves and not what they could do for me I would love them unconditionally and let them decide their fate and then I would hopefully rejoice in the fact that I loved them for who they were and always honored that. I would feel sad (as a choice maybe) for myself because I might miss them but as their friend I would never choose "untold suffering" as IMO that would dishonor them.
I congratulate you.
I agree that suffering is a choice, but let's be realistic here. Very few people have the wisdom to stoically accept the suicide of a loved one. As wise as my mother is, my suicide would undoubtedly result in her suffering, even if that suffering is technically her 'choice.'
Should theft be acceptable to me because I'm better off choosing to practise nonattachment to my possessions? A zen master may not care if somebody steals his lawnmower; so is it reasonable to expect that response from everybody?
The question I was answering was something along the lines of "Why is there such an urge to prevent suicide?"
Regardless of whose choice it is to suffer, discouraging suicide is a perfectly reasonable method of attempting to prevent a lot of pain to a lot of people. Whose responsibility it is to prevent that pain is irrelevant.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#6724222 - 03/29/07 11:41 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes very few people. But for the sake of humanity the rest need to make some changes. Or it's down that same old path forever.
I might present someone with my perspective and alternatives if I felt they hadn't considered them. But past that, it's none of my business.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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vigilant_mind
unfazed



Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6724231 - 03/29/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Next year I'm hoping on getting a job working for a crisis/suicide hotline. It will be very interesting see how much that experience teaches me.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here



Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Icelander]
#6724233 - 03/29/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Yes very few people. But for the sake of humanity the rest need to make some changes. Or it's down that same old path forever.
Hehe... certainly. But that's a whole new thread
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Diploid]
#6726021 - 03/29/07 07:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I wouldn't know about that. I live in Miami.
They got a different kind of snow down there.
--------------------
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Silversoul]
#6726046 - 03/29/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Actually, I remember one night when I was about 12 the forecast for Miami actually called for "light snow flurries". As it happens, in the morning when I was getting ready for school, I looked out the window and voila, light snow! 
I freaked and yelled to my mom that it was snowing outside. She thought I was joking until I dragged her outside.
My brother and I stayed home from school that day. We tried to make snowballs but it was such a light dusting that just touching it melted it.
I'll never forget that day. 1977, I think it was.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 11 days
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Diploid]
#6726076 - 03/29/07 08:15 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'll start typing louder so your hearing aid can pick it up, pops.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: fireworks_god]
#6726123 - 03/29/07 08:29 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Dam whipper snapper. Hrumph!
Where the hell did I put my teeth?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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