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SneezingPenis
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What is wrong with suicide?
#6721006 - 03/28/07 04:18 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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why is there such an urge to prevent it?
why is it considered charitable or noble to "help people" through suicidal times?
I think the general concensus is that suicide is selfish, but isnt it just as selfish to hang that guilt on someone, one more thing for them to feel bad about as they have their toe on the trigger, the pills in their hand, or as they sit in their bathtub with a razor blade?
Our society, IMO, has some really fucked up ideas and views associated with death. We characterize and categorize it like eskimos do with snow. We have murder, suicide, "old age", man slaughter, justifiable homocide (war) and the memoriam inducing "accidental tragedy that extinguished his/her life far too soon". Within these categories, we have even more sub-categories.
but in the end, death is death, and how it is reached or brought about affects the living. because of our societal taboos we are affected differently by how that death is brought about. What does it matter if someone kills themselves? To prove my point, lets take Bob for example. Bob has seriously been contemplating suicide for a while now, he doesnt enjoy life, he doesnt even like himself. Finally, Bob decides to do it, but the one person he remotely cares about has a birthday coming up, so he decides to hold off for a few days, and as he is strolling around, hoping, searching for that childish wonder he had with the world at one point, he is hit by a car and killed on the spot.
Now, the only real difference between Bobs two possible deaths was about 72 hours and a noose, but our perception of his death, and even his wake/ceremony had been completely altered.
at any moment, we can die. death is death. i think we can better understand and "cope" with it if we suspend our conditioned reactions and emotions for only a few moments to gain a window of clarity and realize that death is simply just death.
cease with the "what if's" and "I coulda done this". Bodily death is imminent for all of us, and if you are of the school of philosophy which holds all life as a unique thing to be cherished, then why waste your own living life placating conditioned responses to societal taboos?
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721073 - 03/28/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
why is there such an urge to prevent it?
Generally, you don't want the ones you care for and love to die...
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Cloud9
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721081 - 03/28/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: Now, the only real difference between Bobs two possible deaths was about 72 hours and a noose, but our perception of his death, and even his wake/ceremony had been completely altered.
it's interesting to think about.
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lukeboots
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721094 - 03/28/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think the reason there's such an urge to prevent it because lots of people recover from suicidal tendencies. As loving companions, why not at least try to keep them around, in case their depression / suicide urges subside someday?
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Satan

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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721103 - 03/28/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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There's nothing wrong with suicide. It's a personal decision and a form of self expression; it also helps to decrease overpopulation, and your splattered brains may someday help to fertilize a beautiful tree.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:
why is there such an urge to prevent it?
Generally, you don't want the ones you care for and love to die...
right, but when someone says "D00d, i took like 8 vicodin the other day and got so fucking wasted" there is a highly different response than "I want to kill myself".
why isnt there an intervention and empathetic discussions when someone relates to a loved one that they dont wear seatbelts?
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lukeboots
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721124 - 03/28/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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In the case of seatbelts, that's not a direct cry for attention - it could be simple forgetfulness, among many other things. If you unbuckle your selt belt and drive off a bridge; that's suicide. Smoking is not considered straight-forward suicide either, though it's certainly a death-wish. And people do try to prevent both of those things.. it's just not nearly as urgent as a response to hearing "I want to die, I'm going to die tonight."
edit: Also, in the instance that someone says they ate a bunch of vicodin and got wasted - I generally tell that person (I've had friends with those sorts of habits) that they are going to die, and that if they don't want to, they have to stop. Again, it's not a case of direct-suicide, just a misunderstanding of the consequence of "recreation".
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Edited by lukeboots (03/28/07 04:44 PM)
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721159 - 03/28/07 04:50 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
right, but when someone says "D00d, i took like 8 vicodin the other day and got so fucking wasted" there is a highly different response than "I want to kill myself".
The response is probably different because suicide is associated much more closely (how much closer can you get?) to losing the person forever than popping pills is. They are both bad, but suicide is more immediate and unreversable. Killing yourself with drugs is generally a slower process and it might take longer for people to realize the druggie is in serious danger.
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barfightlard
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721160 - 03/28/07 04:50 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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The only thing wrong with it is that we still have World War 3 to look forward too.
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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SneezingPenis
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: lukeboots] 1
#6721179 - 03/28/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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well, here is how I see it. If someone wants to kill themselves, then who am I to tell them that is wrong, or go off on some self-righteous crusade to enforce my beliefs and emotional attachments onto that person and try to override their life choice?
if it is just a cry for help, i choose not to indulge in that persons passive attention cravings. Either you will commit suicide or not. it is your life, im only here to pass the time with conversation and companionship until one of us dies.
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it stars saddam
Satan

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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721196 - 03/28/07 04:56 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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What was the point in starting this thread if you've already realized that there's nothing wrong with suicide? Just looking to spread your god-like wisdom?
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SneezingPenis
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only to act as a catalyst for personal reflection and understanding. offering an alternate viewpoint rarely seen in this forum. its a take-it-or-leave-it type thing.
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721215 - 03/28/07 05:02 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
If someone wants to kill themselves, then who am I to tell them that is wrong, or go off on some self-righteous crusade to enforce my beliefs and emotional attachments onto that person and try to override their life choice?
Ultimately, unless you physically restrain the person, it is their choice whether to go on living or not. I fail to see the harm in trying to persuade someone that they shouldn't end their life just yet. You don't seem to have a problem trying to convince us that society has a fucked up view of suicide, so why couldn't you argue against the views of a suicidal person? Being suicidal doesn't give you any special rights.
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SneezingPenis
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in my defense, i believe that i prefaced the statement about societies views being fucked up with IMO.
and im not against persuasion, it is everyones right to say what they want, just as it is everyone's right to not listen to what someone is saying.
I feel i am merely putting it into a different perspective, which is why this is a forum, and not a gun to your head or a law passed to prevent you from doing so.
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lukeboots
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721300 - 03/28/07 05:24 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I get what you're saying, but I don't think it does too much extra harm to a suicidal person to attempt persuading them away from death. They're already sad enough to die, saying "I'll miss you don't die" isn't going to tip them over the edge any further. I just don't see the point in apathy towards the suicidal.
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Satan

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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: lukeboots]
#6721312 - 03/28/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Most of the time a suicide threat is completely hollow and is easily exposed as desperate attention-grabbing. I know because I used to do this all the time. If someone really wanted to kill themselves they would just do it, though there are obviously exceptions.
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bigtee212
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6721322 - 03/28/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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im gonna toss this out
its because life is a bitch, its just a horrible businnes, and to be fair wed all like to lay down, relax, be done with it, but we dont, because we have all these forced "loves" and connects. that why family is what it is. anyways, deep down everyone just wants to get out, but the more people that they can get to stay in the game with them the better they feel, so when somone decides to exit, its because they almost envy them, and because they arent there anymore to comfort then or provide company on the terrible ride.
it may seem like that an obvious explaination, but i dunno, its just far enough away from the normaly accepted theory i think to work well
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it stars saddam
Satan

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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: bigtee212]
#6721330 - 03/28/07 05:29 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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lukeboots
fresh futuristic


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Yeah, I know. I've dealt with hollow suicide threats. While it can be difficult to discern the attention grabbers from the honest ones, it just takes careful discretion. I don't condone blubbering at the feet of a makeup clad 15 year old every time they threaten to slit their wrists. But, if someone seriously has issues in their life that need to be worked out, they might just be honest and it wouldn't hurt a damn thing to take the time to discuss it with them.
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flower_child
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Well, I've seen a handful of suicidal guys and girls get through those times and end up feeling happy to be alive in the weeks/months/years afterwards.
It is for the reason that while I do not say "Don't do it." "You'll go to hell." "Think of your family" and so on trying to guilt trip them into living, I do encourage them to give life a little bit more time. I point out that they will die eventually no matter what, but the probability that life will get better with time is close to 100%.
Life's awesome when you're enjoying it. I like to show others that you can always find joy in the incredible gift of life. Everyone's going to feel suicidal at some point in there life. Some more than others. But there's nothing wrong with encouraging them to stick around for a little while longer and see what happens.
-------------------- Today while walking up the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today Oh how I wish he'd stay away
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