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 kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
why is there such an urge to prevent it?
perhaps those trying to prevent it are the selfish ones - they would rather convince the suicidal to put up with their agony day after day, so that they can feel better about themselves - and for "saving" a life.
just playing devil's advocate here...
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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Good post. I agree.
why is there such an urge to prevent it?
For the same reason doctors can't say to patients you are going to die now.  Everyone's afraid of the boogy man.;)
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Letting that, what harms you, also kill yourself ?
For me, that's a never. Harming me is enough, then I call for battle and better die within that, before giving up and away myself.
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cellardoor
rider on the storm
Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 71
Loc: +44° 58' N, -93° 15' W
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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 Re: What is wrong with suicide?  [Re: BlueCoyote]
#6721518 - 03/28/07 06:25 PM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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my two cents:
suicide is cowardly, its running away rather than confronting the "demon." it seems those that choose suicide are just unwilling to try to change their negative perspective. agony is relative. too fuckin bad that the upper-middle class people cant stand working in a cubicle, at least they have a home to return to at the end of the day, food to eat, and a bed to sleep in, not that suicide is excluded to the upper-middle class.
but dont get me wrong, its their choice, and i agree with you guys, "If someone wants to kill themselves, then who am I to tell them that is wrong, or go off on some self-righteous crusade to enforce my beliefs and emotional attachments onto that person and try to override their life choice?" the leading cause of death is life.
and theres always fate to consider...
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."~William Blake
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capliberty
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
why is there such an urge to prevent it?
why is it considered charitable or noble to "help people" through suicidal times?
I think the general concensus is that suicide is selfish, but isnt it just as selfish to hang that guilt on someone, one more thing for them to feel bad about as they have their toe on the trigger, the pills in their hand, or as they sit in their bathtub with a razor blade?
Our society, IMO, has some really fucked up ideas and views associated with death. We characterize and categorize it like eskimos do with snow. We have murder, suicide, "old age", man slaughter, justifiable homocide (war) and the memoriam inducing "accidental tragedy that extinguished his/her life far too soon". Within these categories, we have even more sub-categories.
but in the end, death is death, and how it is reached or brought about affects the living. because of our societal taboos we are affected differently by how that death is brought about. What does it matter if someone kills themselves?
To prove my point, lets take Bob for example. Bob has seriously been contemplating suicide for a while now, he doesnt enjoy life, he doesnt even like himself. Finally, Bob decides to do it, but the one person he remotely cares about has a birthday coming up, so he decides to hold off for a few days, and as he is strolling around, hoping, searching for that childish wonder he had with the world at one point, he is hit by a car and killed on the spot.
Now, the only real difference between Bobs two possible deaths was about 72 hours and a noose, but our perception of his death, and even his wake/ceremony had been completely altered.
at any moment, we can die. death is death. i think we can better understand and "cope" with it if we suspend our conditioned reactions and emotions for only a few moments to gain a window of clarity and realize that death is simply just death.
cease with the "what if's" and "I coulda done this". Bodily death is imminent for all of us, and if you are of the school of philosophy which holds all life as a unique thing to be cherished, then why waste your own living life placating conditioned responses to societal taboos?
I dunno, maybe you should try it out, if its all good.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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why is there such an urge to prevent it?
Hell if I know. One person out of, what's it up to now, 6.5 billion and 200,000 more popping out every day? And if he doesn't kill himself, nature will in a few years anyway.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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capliberty
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Diploid]
#6721652 - 03/28/07 07:01 PM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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its around 6.7 last I checked, I know we need more tsunamis right, them things are devastating on the populous
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: capliberty]
#6721679 - 03/28/07 07:08 PM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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its around 6.7 last I checked
Thank the other drooling moron, the pope, whose infallible word consistently tells the giant breeding masses of starving flesh with HIV in the third world that condoms are a sin against God. 
Ain't religion grand?
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Bob is better off dead. The world is a better place without him. The primary cause of most of the violence and misery in the world is unhappy people.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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aryah
Stranger
Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 102
Last seen: 17 years, 10 days
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: We characterize and categorize it like eskimos do with snow.
I know this has nothing to do with this topic, but this urban myth needs debunking, particularly since, it may have come from a patronising kind of racism.
Eskimos dont have more words for snow than say speakers of english.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow
http://www.mendosa.com/snow.html
Eskimo languages have more than one word to describe snow. For example, Yupik has been estimated to have around 24 — but English has at least 40, including "berg", "frost", "glacier", "hail", "ice", "slush", "flurry", and "sleet".
and the numbers reported in various articles even in respectable newspaper have often been in hundreds. Given any lack of references for such claims, its also an interesting fact about the state of journalism today.
and this by the second link and some other papers Ive seen but cant manage to dig up is a very generous counting of eskimo snow words.
Edited by aryah (03/28/07 07:59 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: aryah]
#6721863 - 03/28/07 07:59 PM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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I wouldn't know about that. I live in Miami. 
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Epigallo
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Diploid]
#6721996 - 03/28/07 08:26 PM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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I think wrong is a stupid word in pretty much any context.
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Epigallo
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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I shouldn't say "stupid"....more specifically I mean "wrong" seems to maintain the sole quality of confusing the subjective with the absolute. like good and bad...every experience is different; a common denominator can be found in any subset of the whole set. God I am high...
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Epigallo]
#6723176 - 03/29/07 03:16 AM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
What is wrong with suicide?
nothing.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6723245 - 03/29/07 04:15 AM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Bob is better off dead. The world is a better place without him. The primary cause of most of the violence and misery in the world is unhappy people.
humans aren't the only beings on the planet. in fact, we are a small portion of what's really here on earth. Violence is inherent in everything here, from trees to insects to the ultimate battle of 'fungi vs. bacteria' <---now that's a real battle that has been raging for millions of years.
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: kaiowas]
#6723310 - 03/29/07 05:01 AM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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What I intended to say with those words was "willful violence, and unconscious misery". The very fact that we have weapons capable of wiping out our species testifies to the fact that unhappiness is the standard with most people.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6723337 - 03/29/07 05:18 AM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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unhappiness is a standard, but I feel that it isn't THE standard.
the same technology that could blow each other up could help save each other as well.
I think the government and media has a big role to play. These are institutions that have influence over the minds of others. Just like the Catholic church used to be the domineering power, transnational corporations, governments, and the media; along with institutions like the IMF, World Bank, GATT, WTO, and the UN, are big players in the the social mess that we currently have now
influence on information is where it's at.
let me put it another way, you say it is our weapons that is a determining indicator for our mental well being. Though we may be the users of such weapons, how many people go out of their way to create such things? WHO actually creates these?
sure they may have derived from our hunter gatherer roots, but the fact still remains it the relative few who make weapons of mass destruction, and it is the many who use it. The amount of people who use it is besides the point, because like I said before, information can be processes in many forms through many different mediums. It is these mediums that have the ability to 'create' our unhappiness.
In short, happiness is just as standard as unhappiness, and the type of weapons we have should not be an indicator of which feeling is more applicable.
that's my rant 
what do you think?
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Muppet 
Nomadic Jester
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 28,785
Loc: (523) 327-2836
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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pfft...I already KNOW that my 'opinion' is just gonna kill this thread (and I appologize for that one)
but yeah - I *personally* believe that there is NOTHING wrong with the 'idea' of suicide
(except...you know...that it (typically) affects those that genuinely care about 'us')
I (personally) feel that suicide is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE...and that the ONLY reason it's seens as anything other then that is because 'they' simply don't understand the mindset behind all of this
...BUT AT THE SAME TIME...
I ALSO feel that the only reason there are so many people opposed to this one is because they don't 'understand the mindset' behind it
I don't (necessarily) AGREE with the thought process behind all of this...allthough...I do actually 'understand' it
but yeah - that's all a mute point I suppose
and I digress on that one 
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 Ravings of a Madman
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gregorio
Too Damn Old
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,837
Loc: Classified
Last seen: 11 days, 21 hours
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: Muppet]
#6723475 - 03/29/07 06:45 AM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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Suicide causes unimaginable grief, pain, and sorrow to the surviving family members. I suppose that would be my main problem with it.
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Muppet
Nomadic Jester
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 28,785
Loc: (523) 327-2836
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: What is wrong with suicide? [Re: gregorio]
#6723511 - 03/29/07 07:06 AM (17 years, 23 days ago) |
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yeah...but in MY case anyway - I'm pretty sure no one fucken cares if I'm here or not 
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Ravings of a Madman
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