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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: suicide [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5623843 -

redgreenvines said:
aManEater said:
to die would be one hell of an adventure.



that is an unfortunate speculation.
or the echoing of words that actually mean something else.


Universal equilibrium. A stateless balance. sounds like an adventure to me.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.

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Re: suicide [Re: Basilides]
    #5624227 -

Basilides said:
Icelander said:
Are you calling the grieving mothers of children who have committed suicide "selfish"?

Indeed I am by the very definition of the word. If you bring someone into this world (give them the gift of life) then it's a gift and you have no right to demand anything from them; or it's not a gift and you give them no choice in the matter as they never asked to be born. How come you can't get that? It's SELFISH. Define that word. It means my feelings and wants are more important than yours. How blind and consumed by cultural programming IMO. Why are you so bent on having others do your bidding? Leave others the fuck alone and take care of you own life.


That still doesn't change that causing others pain is wrong.


Hey Mister black and white. Your posts hurt me. You must stop now and agree with me. Your views are the cause of my pain. I am not doing this to myself you are. Your verbal violence towards me is destructive to my welbeing. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: suicide [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5624249 -

I get you but it means nothing to this debate IMO. Why don't you tell life not to kill anyone for these same reasons? What about the baby born to starve in Africa or the child tortured to death by the parents. My point being that death is the end result always and life isn't always worth living. You can choose to stay alive any way you wish and in the end you will be as dead as if you had committed suicide. For the person that chooses other than you, you are not able to judge or know the purpose or value of their acts. It's not your business. Taking care of yourself is full time work.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: suicide [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5624333 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
Redstorm said:
Earlier this year I was very depressed and was very, very close to doing it.


so what was your plan? (I mean the style of execution)


Lots and lots of pills.

I didn't do it because:

1. I was too afraid.
2. I didn't want my roommate to have to find my body.

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Re: suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #5624353 -

in the previous post you indicate discomfort with black and white.
then you indicate that death is the end result of life. and try to make this a black and white issue in which the briefest whim of a passenger in the stream of consciousness should have the right to terminate the entire stream; and that nature which is the stream should have no greater right than the puny passenger in that stream.


This is patently incorrect.

Life is not something that becomes death, it is not a duality. death is merely the end of a particular stream, life is what happens all along the stream, including but not limited to the sequence of self moments that ride in that stream.

In no way is death (the little process of ending the stream) a thing that can be measured with life (which is the totality of the stream and an interactive person as well), nor is it a measure of life or the end result of life, as living has many interactive impacts with other streams and physical conditions all along its endurance.

I think you have to forget everything you are sure of - unlearn everything, and begin to live with more channels open to understand what I am really talking about here:

I am talking about the simplest thing. Against that simple thing other issues become more clear in their own light, not necessarily in words.


(legally I think a person should have the right to termination of the body, and angels of mercy (loving murderers) need to be treated severely but fairly with each case taken on its merit. What I am most uncomfortable with is casual flirtation with suicide and casual maturity about it - That is an utterly phoney posture)


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: suicide [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5624456 -

I think a person should have the right to termination of the body,

That's what I'm saying. :thumbup:

No matter what I think or what you think it's up to each person to reason it out for themselves. I think it's unwise to look at suicide casually and I don't but I'm not going to try and guilt trip someone else from that road by lying to them.  Why? Because I know that I'm not really able to judge the merits of someone choosing a path for themselves that (in reality) doesn't really harm anyone else. I refuse to abdicate responsibility for myself and say someones personal choices or words can make me feel ANYTHING I don't personally choose to feel.

Life is a very interesting thing. I don't know what it means and if it's precious or not. I'm not going to pretend I'm the guy who knows. I really have a problem personally with people who try and guilt trip others into robot like behavior over ANY issue, just so they can feel like they have control of their lives. It's patent nonsense and unskillful and destructive to non robotic behavior. What good is staying alive if you don't make your own decisions and choices based on what you want? Living for someone else (so they won't feel something or other) isn't really living at all IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #5624861 -

hate to confuse the issue, a person should have the right, legally. But I know of no person who has adequate insight to measure the impact for themselves or others fairly.

I am for less big brother governmental intereferrence in the matter, but I am for more honest careful understanding of the human condition - and no phoney baloney comments about life after death when people really just don't have any clue. Bravado issues about it are the MOST MISGUIDED and MISGUIDING.

Some phoney baloney mysticism suggests that after death you get some prize. that's sick stuff told to under educated suicide bombers, and charity based religious regimes.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: suicide [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5624870 -

But I know of no person who has adequate insight to measure the impact for themselves or others fairly.

My point exactly, you don't know if anyone else has adequate insight. That's why it's not your business. You can choose for yourself however.

As far as the pie in the sky stuff. I totally agree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #5625049 -

me 2
then


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: suicide [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5625115 -

I have been involved in this discussion quite a few times here. It's always passionate on both ends and gets tons of posts. People are definitely interested in the subject. Peace out.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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