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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Instinct [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3265331 - 10/22/04 05:31 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Instinct (behaviourial knowledge without being taught) is observable. Intuition is a vague term that describes a method of "knowing" that has never been validated.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: Instinct [Re: Swami]
    #3265356 - 10/22/04 05:37 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I agree. I was just commenting on how a spiritual or philosophical approach was not applied to this topic in this forum. Its been pure science so far. I'm suprised.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Offlinedeff
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Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: Instinct [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3265485 - 10/22/04 06:18 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Spirituality is a science :smile:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Instinct [Re: Swami]
    #3266133 - 10/22/04 09:45 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

There is evidence that learned behaviors can become genetic traits. On TV I saw where a certain breed of dog, after having been trained to sniff explosives out, passed the trait to their offspring genetically.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,066
Re: Instinct [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3266187 - 10/22/04 10:04 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
There is evidence that learned behaviors can become genetic traits. On TV I saw where a certain breed of dog, after having been trained to sniff explosives out, passed the trait to their offspring genetically.



TV can suggest many false things.

---
jiggy.
In your opinion what would be a spiritual approach to this matter?

IMO one can use things on their spiritual path as challenges to let go of preconceptions, or to unlearn kneejerk reactions, especially to avoid falling into Approach and Avoid instinctual behavior in matters of mind (or spirit) since either Approach or Avoid becomes Approach; while performing a kind of "avoid in mind space" is achieved only by non-reaction.


Otherwise being scientific about what is already really known is most helpful to all beings, it prevents the most suffering.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
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Re: Instinct [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3266211 - 10/22/04 10:13 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

It was a science show on Discovery. It seemed quite legit.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 38,066
Re: Instinct [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3266260 - 10/22/04 10:26 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

not a chance. nnuhuh noway

though dogs are not so stupid that they can't teach their offspring a thing or two when master is not looking.

any careful study will prove that you cannot depend on anything learned being passed to offspring by heredity.

they really tried hard to find something that would lead to killing people and swirling their brains up in a beaker - extracting the good gunk and injecting it into the enemy agent to get secret knowledge, but thankfully that ain't ever gonna happen. (and if it happens it eally really won't work -US military really wanted it to work back in mid 70's and funded professors of mine at that time - they only used mice, results always negative except for scotophobin which is just propensity for learning fear of dark)


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: Instinct [Re: Swami]
    #3266277 - 10/22/04 10:30 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Instinct (behaviourial knowledge without being taught) is observable. Intuition is a vague term that describes a method of "knowing" that has never been validated.




Intuition, glimmers of a 6th sense - non-linear cognition...
this stuff is probably what keeps people coming back to this forum.
if we can figure a way to quantify or reliably conjure the glimmers then we might get a scientific context to this spiritual aspect that does not dissappear no matter how logical we want to be.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Instinct [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3266290 - 10/22/04 10:34 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

They discussed that these dogs had been obtained by the the federal government from Britain for this reason. Don't assume you are right. There is more to genetics and behavior than you assume. Why do you think musical genius often appears in the same familly (as it has in mine...my son has acheived more in 2 years of guitar than I did in 8 years of diligent practice, and my oldest brother is seemingly inherantly gifted to the degree that he can play nearly any instrument properly often on first try) every generation or so. Your view is very narrow minded.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: Instinct [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3266493 - 10/22/04 11:29 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

There is waaaaaaaaaaaay to much testosterone and machismo on this forum right now for me to share my thoughts on how intuition transcends instinct programming blah blah blah.

You guys know I don't speak science logic well.

Besides frog giving some legal advice and a suggestion to start a bail fund, I think I am the only female who has posted here in days.

Few women post here regularly as it is. This is a tough crowed.

I'm thinking of copying the original post and putting it at at female dominated meta physics forum as I am curious how this would be replied to there. If I do it and get at least 3 replies, I'll post them here.

I'm reading, but I'm not resonating here at all anymore. I feel like I am reading in chinese or something. LOL


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Instinct [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3266662 - 10/23/04 12:34 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

meme

n : a cultural unit (an idea or value or pattern of behavior) that is passed from one generation to another by nongenetic means (as by imitation); "memes are the cultrual counterpart of genes"


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Disclaimer!?

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Instinct [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3267136 - 10/23/04 06:20 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Huehuecoyotl ;
gomp is right about the meme's

and the issue about musical genius is not understood properly yet, but I will predict, (based upon years of study) that the auditory cortex is a bit larger and that the cerebellum is structured in an even more orderly fashion in members of your family - and that that is definitely inherited.

cortex and cerebellum can be cultured to musical finesse but need to be present as a starting raw material. I envy your family's gifts.

but musical genius is really mathematical genius that is "MEME-D" towards a cultural expression of music, or dance, or manufacturing.

warning, even educational TV and things from England can be erroneous and misleading.

or you got it twisted a bit, a strain of dogs can be more easily trained in some things but are not born knowing those things. The ability to learn faster can be inherited in brain and body structures, the knowledge itself is not inherited.

Jiggy, it is not testosterone, it is, however, instinctual responding to potentially scary shifts in paradigm. you know "avoid and approach" being triggered by knee jerk interpretations of threat.

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
They discussed that these dogs had been obtained by the the federal government from Britain for this reason. Don't assume you are right. There is more to genetics and behavior than you assume. Why do you think musical genius often appears in the same familly (as it has in mine...my son has acheived more in 2 years of guitar than I did in 8 years of diligent practice, and my oldest brother is seemingly inherantly gifted to the degree that he can play nearly any instrument properly often on first try) every generation or so. Your view is very narrow minded.




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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Instinct [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3267142 - 10/23/04 06:30 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Why do you think musical genius often appears in the same familly (as it has in mine...my son has acheived more in 2 years of guitar than I did in 8 years of diligent practice, and my oldest brother is seemingly inherantly gifted to the degree that he can play nearly any instrument properly often on first try) every generation or so. Your view is very narrow minded.




I wouldn't think this is evidence of actual "musical genius". I would personally interpret this as physical and mental characteristics (which are passed on genetically) that are more suited for the study and practice of musikk, coupled with being in an environment full of musikk and the possibility of learning to express oneself musically... I don't see any suggestion here of inherent musical talent and ability.  :grin:

Certain physical characteristics of a person will enable them to be more sucessful as a lumberjack (body structure, size, strength, etc.), and these are certainly traits that are passed on genetically. Mental characteristics can also be passed on genetically (although a little harder to prove, I suspect, especially as I am not a scientist or anything...).

Any sort of understanding, skill, information, knowledge, etc. etc. etc., I would see as learned in ones own life, although ones genetic makeup affects ones ability to do this. There is a distinction here, let us note it. *breaks loaves of bread in half and pours wine* :nut:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
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Re: Instinct [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3267843 - 10/23/04 01:03 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

You realize, of course that men will be what it is in their nature to be...men,(this thread is about instinct isn't it?) and men are pushy and loud as a whole...I am certainly no exception, as I often try to be nice, but I am not a nice person. You should put your ideas out there regardless. One issue that really bugs me is when men are accused of shouting women down and suppressing their ideas. This is just men being the animal they were born not insensitivity. To survive in such an environment women should step forward and speak their mind without backing down.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,066
Re: Instinct [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3268635 - 10/23/04 04:45 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

sounds like an invitation for some rough sex to me


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Instinct [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3268716 - 10/23/04 05:07 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

"sounds like an invitation for some rough sex to me"
Come on don't be crude. I am refering to the exchange of ideas. What am I talking about??? You are obviously exhibiting instinctual behavior.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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