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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: Diploid]
    #7799900 - 12/26/07 12:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
It's my opinion that if the world were free of religion and mysticism, there wouldn't be any suicide bombers. :shrug:



Would you prefer they used tanks and rifles?


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: Silversoul]
    #7799907 - 12/26/07 12:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Would you prefer they used tanks and rifles?

Oh, you must mean like George Bush is doing after God told him to go to war in Iraq. He's no less a religious terrorist than a suicide bomber. :evil:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: Diploid]
    #7799922 - 12/26/07 01:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Oh, you must mean like George Bush is doing after God told him to go to war in Iraq.



If by God you mean Dick Cheney(I hear he's quite a ventriloquist).


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Invisibledaytripper23
?
Male

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: Diploid]
    #7799960 - 12/26/07 01:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Remember though, Bush is not only a christian, but also a very intelligent and talented individual.


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OfflineFrenziedTortoise
Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 60
Last seen: 2 months, 28 days
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compassion? [Re: dr_gonz]
    #7799964 - 12/26/07 01:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dr_gonz said:
I'm trying to really get a grasp on why people chose to fight and kill rather than work together towards a better planet?



I think you might be able to reduce it down to biological survivalism. At the instinctive level, each person wants to live forever (actually, this happens at the level of individual genes, but that's getting a bit too complicated) and the only way a person can partly achieve this is to reproduce and protect their offspring. Back when things were tougher and survival for another day could ride on the fact that you had one extra fruit tree in the patch of land you call your own, it was a good idea to protect that tree/land to keep your lineage alive. Conversely, if your survival was in jeapardy, and you needed your neighbour's fruit tree to live... neanderthal small scale war is born. We haven't lived in civility for long enough for these ingrained traits to dissapear, but the group of people we look out for has widened from ourselves and our family to our country.


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OfflineVisionary Tools
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: dr_gonz]
    #7800094 - 12/26/07 03:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Profit.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
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Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: dr_gonz]
    #7800141 - 12/26/07 05:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'll summarize:
evolutionary world survival existentialism :smile: That's the simple way.
Our brain now offers us the alternative possibility(/ies) to achieve the same goals with less (direct/obvious) violence.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleClean
the lense
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Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: Diploid]
    #7800441 - 12/26/07 09:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I'm trying to really get a grasp on why people chose to fight and kill rather than work together towards a better planet?

The reason is simple: mysticism/religion.

It's at the bottom of nearly all human conflicts. When you have 100% certainty that the land you're fighting over was exclusively given to you by God, you become willing to kill and die for it.




I don't see the concepts of mysticism / religion themselves as the problem. I think we could have such beliefs and pursue those paths of consciousness without demanding that others do too. I think it is the blind fervor with which individuals seek to enforce their dogmas on others that is the problem.

If we can agree that we actually don't yet know what the hell this existence thing is all about, then we can all explore our own inclinations without needing to declare that we have the One Truth.
I will add that there are plenty of people who have found personally fulfilling "mystic" truths or concepts of the ways of existence, and have no desire whatsoever to force others to accept them. They will show the way if asked, but that is all.


Edited by Clean (12/26/07 09:49 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: dr_gonz]
    #7800463 - 12/26/07 09:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dr_gonz said:
I'm trying to really get a grasp on why people chose to fight and kill rather than work together towards a better planet?




It's kind of an  uneasy balance wouldn't you say? Being defensive has been good for  survival for a long time. It's not easy to change what works even when it no longer does or has limited value. Death anxiety is at the bottom of it IMO. I was recently reading that the more one fears death (especially if it's mostly unconscious) the more temporary relief can be had by killing others and to boot the more killed the more feelings of saftey. :frown:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: Diploid]
    #7800466 - 12/26/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It's at the bottom of nearly all human conflicts.
One of the rare times I do not agree with you. See my post above.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBoots
Disenchanted
Male

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7801266 - 12/26/07 03:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Humans have been killing since their appearance on the Earth. It's how we learned to eat.


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Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium Flag
Re: Why does the primal instinct of war and territorialism overcome the instinct of care and compass [Re: dr_gonz]
    #7806831 - 12/28/07 09:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

a) in most cases, it's easier to continue what we are doing, not admit any sort of 'wrong'-doing, and stay seated

b) it's a lot easier to choose to be a violent/corrupt leader (and usually has more rewards for the leader) than it is to struggle to keep everyone together (as we are somewhat aggressive animals, naturally)


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channel your inner Larry David


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