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Offlineheadvoid
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Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 20
Last seen: 17 years, 18 days
Is suicide a selfish act?
    #6202082 - 10/23/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The taking of your own life is a selfish act. It is the wanton destruction of peoples lives around you. Think about it

1. You kill yourself at home - someone has to find you
2. You kill yourself by throwing yourself off a bridge - someone you dont know finds you and then you have an inquest
3. You throw yourself off a ferry - no-one finds you can you cant be declared dead for 7 years - more heartache for all.

Is there a way to do it without being selfish? I think not.

Unless anyone can come up with a better way?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6202197 - 10/23/06 03:07 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Of course it's selfish. You're doing it for yourself. :grin: That doesn't make it wrong or bad. If you must please try not to make others clean up the mess. It's easy to disappear into the wilderness or such.  :wink: Have fun. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblethatiAM
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Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6202304 - 10/23/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I recommend eating a bathtub full of baked beans. It's the man's way out. Sure, someone will have to clean it up. But you can bet they will be laughing the whole time.

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Offlinecookeman
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6202362 - 10/23/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

That thinking has stopped a lot of people from doing it in the first place including myself. Others truly are selfish when it comes to that matter and the thought never crosses their mind how it will affect other people.

I feel like I've been suicidal almost all my life. I've always thought about doing it since I hit basically 4th grade. I can remember being so upset over how hard I felt like my parents were on me that I told myself I would kill myself the next day to make them feel bad and to end my suffering. Throughout the years I've wanted to do it for many different reasons. Whether it be over having only a couple friends, or no friends, or feeling like my family didn't like me, or I had no one that understands me. It all seems petty when I look back on it, but I know how much that stuff hurt when I was younger and I didn't have anything but time to heal the pain.

I'm definitely an introvert though, and if anyone in my family or friends found that out I was suicidal, I know they would be absolutely stunned. That's why I know if I ever did it they would be crushed. Which is why I don't think I'll ever do it unless I get locked up for more than 20 years.

Right now I'm ok, but that's just because things are good. Me and my g/f of 7 years off and on are better than ever and the future is bright for us, and I'm graduating college. I have a feeling if my G/f dicked me over though I would slip into the same behaviors. Depression sucks.


--------------------
“Let’s put it this way – to lump psychedelic mushrooms into the same group as methamphetamine is like lumping the Bible into the same group as Mein Kampf.
I mean shit; they’re both books, right?”

Joe Rogan


R.I.P. - "Bones" - One of the greatest people I've ever had the pleasure of getting to know and become friends with.

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Offlineheadvoid
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: cookeman]
    #6202393 - 10/23/06 03:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

hey cookeman. if ever you get down, simply visit this website.

it's cool and always brings me round.

Clicky

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Offlinecookeman
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6202402 - 10/23/06 03:53 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Ahahahahahaahaha. :thumbup: good stuff


--------------------
“Let’s put it this way – to lump psychedelic mushrooms into the same group as methamphetamine is like lumping the Bible into the same group as Mein Kampf.
I mean shit; they’re both books, right?”

Joe Rogan


R.I.P. - "Bones" - One of the greatest people I've ever had the pleasure of getting to know and become friends with.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6202485 - 10/23/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Everything you do is selfish. How one lives their life or ends it is their own business.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Offlineheadvoid
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6202677 - 10/23/06 04:58 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Not true huehuewhatever

Quote:

CORONADO, Calif. - A Navy SEAL sacrificed his life to save his comrades by throwing himself on top of a grenade Iraqi insurgents tossed into their sniper hideout, fellow members of the elite force said.

Petty Officer 2nd Class Michael A. Monsoor had been near the only door to the rooftop structure Sept. 29 when the grenade hit him in the chest and bounced to the floor, said four SEALs who spoke to The Associated Press last week on condition of anonymity because their work requires their identities to remain secret.

"He never took his eye off the grenade. His only movement was down toward it," said a 28-year-old lieutenant who sustained shrapnel wounds to both legs that day. "He undoubtedly saved mine and the other SEALs' lives, and we owe him."



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Offlineheadvoid
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6202686 - 10/23/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Oh, and I nearly forgot



Boning him must be considered an act of charity

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6202707 - 10/23/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

And no one else can be hurt by your "selfish" act unless they choose to be hurt.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineheadvoid
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6202716 - 10/23/06 05:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Choose to be hurt? are you dumb?

So finding your sister swinging by a beam is a choice someone made?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6202734 - 10/23/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

No I'm not dumb or delusional or self-indulgent about this. You choose how you will feel and no one but yourself can make you feel anything. No matter what they do. I've had this debate a dozen times.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6202763 - 10/23/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

headvoid said:
Choose to be hurt? are you dumb?




Asking someone else if they are "dumb" for expressing their point of view is not acceptable in this forum. Please review the forum rules, and if you have any questions or concerns regarding the matter, feel free to send me a private message - do not reply to this notice in this thread, as it is not up for discussion in this thread. :wink:

Quote:

Icelander said:
No I'm not dumb or delusional or self-indulgent about this. You choose how you will feel and no one but yourself can make you feel anything. No matter what they do. I've had this debate a dozen times.




Exactly. :thumbup:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineSilentG
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6202820 - 10/23/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No I'm not dumb or delusional or self-indulgent about this. You choose how you will feel and no one but yourself can make you feel anything. No matter what they do. I've had this debate a dozen times.




That sounds like some BS to me. Most people don't choose their emotional response to actions. Just because you've discussed a subject doesn't mean you're right.

First off - if you're right, then there's really no reason not to harm other people emotionally. After all, the victim is merely choosing to be hurt.

There are autonomic responses we all have, which may be overridden to varying degrees, but still cause some immediate response. You can't completely and immediately stop a chemical cascade from going off in response to something that's very emotionally charged.

Sure, some really developed people of above average intelligence or emotional capabilities do have great control over their emotions, but the grieving one feels for the loss of a loved one isn't something most have control over. Even those who can control such emotions most likely shouldn't and don't really want to. I felt guilty for years because I shut down emotionally after a friend's death. In retrospect, simply dealing with it immediately would have been much better.

Most of the people I know are largely automatons by age 30, almost completely locked in their ways. I doubt any of them would be able to control their emotional response to anything as severe as the loss of a loved one.


Now as far as suicide being a selfish action - sure it is. Pretty much everything we do is a selfish action in some way. Even the marine who jumps on a grenade to save his buddies is being selfish in the sense that at the moment he jumps he is doing what he feels is right and what he wants to do. Nobody physically put him on the grenade, he did it for a reason - probably because he values the life of his squad over his own or wants to die a hero or whatever. We only ever do what we want to do. Even if someone puts a gun to my head and says "punch yourself in the balls" my punch to my own groin would be a selfish act since it's much better than the alternative in my mind.

This sort of selfishness isn't the same kind which deprives other people of their right to limited resources. Miserly selfishness is a bad thing and not all that common in my experience.


--------------------
Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: SilentG]
    #6202846 - 10/23/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps most individuals are not capable of controlling their emotions at the present moment, and perhaps they emotionally react to situations without making a conscious choice to do so, but yet, at the same time, I think we will all agree that they themselves are responsible for their emotional state of being. :wink:

I do not think it necessarily follows that, because individuals are capable of choosing how they will experience life, people will have no reason to not inflict suffering upon others. For one thing, physical pain still exists. For another thing, why inflict suffering on others in the first place? :grin:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineSilentG
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6202965 - 10/23/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Perhaps most individuals are not capable of controlling their emotions at the present moment, and perhaps they emotionally react to situations without making a conscious choice to do so, but yet, at the same time, I think we will all agree that they themselves are responsible for their emotional state of being. :wink:

I do not think it necessarily follows that, because individuals are capable of choosing how they will experience life, people will have no reason to not inflict suffering upon others. For one thing, physical pain still exists. For another thing, why inflict suffering on others in the first place? :grin:

:levitate:




I would agree that in a long-term sense people are largely responsible for their own state of being. Of course there are situations like refugee camps where the overall situation is so horrible that you can't expect everyone to develop as in say, the US. In situations where like 90% of people die young or lead deplorable lives there's got to be some outside factor that does hold some sway over folks' lives.

But for most of us leading relatively normal, care-free lives, yes, we are primarily responsible for our overall state of being.

This doesn't mean the weeks of emotional anguish following a loved one's death is something we have any control over. Even if we did, controling something like that probably isn't too healthy. Grief is a pretty necessary emotion sometimes, and subjecting your loved ones to such a horrible time had damn well better be justified before someone commits suicide. I have no clue how to justify that though, since everyone's experience of life is subjective. I'd imagine the best thing to say/do is just "hey, you're gonna hurt a lot of people by killing yourself - so take that into consideration first. Explore all your options before you take the back door out."

What I was saying with the "the victim is at fault for feeling emotional pain you caused" is just that if the prior post was right, and we are all always responsible for everything we feel, than any argument about not harming others unduly is kinda shot. What if it makes me happy to hurt someone else, but I wouldn't do it because on a rational level I think it's wrong to inflict pain. If the victim is the one responsible, then that rational argument is no longer valid, and why not make myself happy by hurting others? Btw - I was talking about purely emotional pain too. Although, in reality, I view emotional and physical pain as very similar. No, I am not a horrible person who hurts others, I was simply making another argument vs the prior points which I so clearly believe to be utter self-indulgent, juvenile, Ayn Randian BS.


--------------------
Yes, I could go drive somewhere everytime the urge to defecate hits, but...where's the fun in that.
-Moth

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6202978 - 10/23/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"A Navy SEAL sacrificed his life to save his comrades by throwing himself on top of a grenade Iraqi insurgents tossed into their sniper hideout, fellow members of the elite force said."

I used to be an Infantry soldier myself. I knew and trained with lots of SF, Seals, SAS, Rangers, and other hardcorp types. These guys are not about selfless sacrifice. With few exceptions it is about competition and advancement. One of the guys from my battalion during the Korean war threw himself on 5 grenades in one day (yes it is survivable) before the last one got him. His medal of honor hung on our battalion wall. In the military it is commonly made known that the whole deal is not about self sacrifice, but about watching you and your buddies ass so you can fight another day. The military doesn't care who gets killed you or someone else so they put no actual value on such actions. I often heard The Purple Heart refered to as disciplinary action for fucking up. In any case even a decision to sacrifice ones self for others is made purely out of self interest as is every decision.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Offlineheadvoid
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6202999 - 10/23/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
One of the guys from my battalion during the Korean war threw himself on 5 grenades in one day (yes it is survivable) before the last one got him.




LOL, that's a joke right??

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6203016 - 10/23/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

NO it is real. He had to be an idiot....


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (10/23/06 07:26 PM)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: SilentG]
    #6203037 - 10/23/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"Most people don't choose their emotional response to actions."

That is because they react instead of act. The wiser humans among us just ACT.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: SilentG]
    #6203057 - 10/23/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

feels for the loss of a loved one isn't something most have control over

This sounds like some BS to me. :grin:  You choose to have control or you choose not to. That's it. Just because someone is weak does not mean they don't have choice.  Just because you won't accept this doesn't mean you're right. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineSapphireCat
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6203317 - 10/23/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i've been down the same road as you cookeman, the magical little shroomies saved my life. Those evil evil things! Turn you insane they do! ^^,


--------------------
Beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depend on Simplicity ~Plato

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6203862 - 10/23/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

headvoid said:
The taking of your own life is a selfish act. It is the wanton destruction of peoples lives around you. Think about it

1. You kill yourself at home - someone has to find you
2. You kill yourself by throwing yourself off a bridge - someone you dont know finds you and then you have an inquest
3. You throw yourself off a ferry - no-one finds you can you cant be declared dead for 7 years - more heartache for all.

Is there a way to do it without being selfish? I think not.

Unless anyone can come up with a better way?




I'd say so. A whole lot of suiciders are so wrapped up in their own little world that they give less a shit how their self-inflicted murder will effect loved ones. Half of them don't even leave a damn note.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6203875 - 10/23/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
feels for the loss of a loved one isn't something most have control over

This sounds like some BS to me. :grin:  You choose to have control or you choose not to. That's it. Just because someone is weak does not mean they don't have choice.  Just because you won't accept this doesn't mean you're right. :wink:




If grief over a lost loved one is a display of lack of control, then honestly, no living human on this planet has any control whatsoever.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineSyle
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6204002 - 10/23/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No I'm not dumb or delusional or self-indulgent about this. You choose how you will feel and no one but yourself can make you feel anything. No matter what they do. I've had this debate a dozen times.




i wholeheartedly agree. i am not saying i would be able to control my mind say, if my girlfriend was tragically killed before my eyes. but my response to that horrific scene would souly be my decision whether I was conscious of it or not.


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Offlineheadvoid
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Syle]
    #6204107 - 10/23/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Syle said:
but my response to that horrific scene would souly be my decision whether I was conscious of it or not.




Sorry. my supposition is that you are conscious when you walk into a room and your girlfriend is swinging from a beam with her lips blue and her eyes bulging.

Are you saying you would be unconscious at that point? Or are you saying that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is the choice of war veterans? Because that is the logical step.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6204178 - 10/23/06 10:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps "intentional" would be a better term here than "conscious."  While someone may be physically conscious, this does not mean that their knee-jerk reactions to the events of their life are intentional.

Taking full responsibility for one's reactions to events is not about becoming an emotionless robot, nor about excusing the thoughtless and obnoxious behaviors of others.  Control is not the issue--intention is.

How intentional are your responses to the events in your everyday life?  Do you often react (i.e. take action) without considering your other options?  Do you feel overwhelmed by your emotions, or do your emotional reactions eventually integrate themselves into an intentional response?  Are you creating the experience of life you wish to have?

These are the questions which can lead to some degree of personal freedom, and a sense that you are not at the mercy of your circumstances.  The goal is NOT eliminating emotions, but shaping your interaction with life.

:peace:

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Veritas]
    #6204589 - 10/23/06 11:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I think we're all missing the point here.

If someone doesn't react to their girlfriend swinging from a beam with blue lips and buldging eyes, well, they are either emotionless (sociopathic) or they are simply grieving the situation on a repressed, pathological spectrum.

BUT... I'm going to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that alot of people here simply do alot of trash talking in P&S. We're all guilty of it from one time to another. I think everyone here would respond to a said suicide scenario of a loved one with grief and extensive lacrimation like the rest of humanity.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Basilides]
    #6204819 - 10/24/06 12:37 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Just look at the name 'ICE'lander. I'm pure black ice myself. I don't get very emotional about anything. I am emotionally independent of most people. Meaning I don't rely on anyone emotionally to provide any meaning to my life. If a girl was swinging from a beam I'd probably laugh if I was fucked up. In fact that sounds kinda funny right now. And you all are probably thinking what a sick twisted dude. But who doesn't enjoy a good horror flick.

Edited by capliberty (10/24/06 04:29 AM)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: capliberty]
    #6205100 - 10/24/06 04:43 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I'm pure black ice myself. I don't get very emotional about anything. I am emotionally independent of most people. Meaning I don't rely on anyone emotionally to provide any meaning to my life. If a girl was swinging from a beam I'd probably laugh if I was fucked up. In fact that sounds kinda funny right now. And you all are probably thinking what a sick twisted dude.




That is how I used to see myself. I ended up with borderline schizoid tendencies. I experienced an inability to express myself, and had severe depression that manifested itself as severe anger. I was permanently pissed off for over a decade. Having the cold mentality may seem useful at times, but it is a major block to personal power. I refused to put myself out there and get emotionally involved in the world out of fear and alienation. Speaking of suicide...such an attitude could become a fast track to extinction.

Quote:

You don't know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I'm the little Jew
who wrote the Bible
I've seen the nations rise and fall
I've heard their stories, heard them all
but love's the only engine of survival --Leonard Cohen




--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (10/24/06 04:51 AM)

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6205148 - 10/24/06 06:20 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Personal power, sounds interesting. I hope its not anything related to Tony Robbins, the guys a fraud.

I don't see myself detached, cold or inexpressive per se.

I just have a certain demeanor, in which its reserved, inquisitive, controlled, rational and deliberate. Much of this is facilitated by being such a pothead, but I like being somewhat indifferent. That is what herb does, make people indifferent to situations by showing them a different prospective than run of the mill sober prospective.

Partly it subverts your tendencies to react to the world impulsively and gives you that delayed prospective to choose a more preferable path. Also I don't really think me being who I am is a denial complex, but rather something that I've been accustomed and acclimated to over the years not being around that many people that I consider somewhat significant. Being a solo soldier and not depending on anyone for emotional support is a result of my surroundings rather than an instilled attitude. I guess some people can hack it and some people blow their heads off with 45 caliber, or whatever in being this way. To me its natural.

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: capliberty]
    #6205263 - 10/24/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
But who doesn't enjoy a good horror flick.




Yeh, that's right. I love to get some popcorn and watch my sister swing from a beam with blue lips and her eyes popping out. It's a blast.

What is wrong with you people? some of you are basically saying that if you saw said blue lipped girl you could detach yourself from this entirely and not let it touch you.

Do you lot have night vision goggles and a deep basement? You are all so far down your own navels you can see your arsehole. Start telling the truth or at least debate this sensibly.

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Basilides]
    #6205283 - 10/24/06 08:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

headvoid said:
The taking of your own life is a selfish act. It is the wanton destruction of peoples lives around you. Think about it

1. You kill yourself at home - someone has to find you
2. You kill yourself by throwing yourself off a bridge - someone you dont know finds you and then you have an inquest
3. You throw yourself off a ferry - no-one finds you can you cant be declared dead for 7 years - more heartache for all.

Is there a way to do it without being selfish? I think not.

Unless anyone can come up with a better way?




I'd say so. A whole lot of suiciders are so wrapped up in their own little world that they give less a shit how their self-inflicted murder will effect loved ones. Half of them don't even leave a damn note.




And so many "loved ones" are so completely self centered and selfish that they think they need to control every one elses life by guilt tripping them. Most people don't leave a note because they  don't even like their "loved ones". :wink: Most "loved ones" care more about themselves than anyone else and that is the real truth here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Basilides]
    #6205287 - 10/24/06 08:16 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
feels for the loss of a loved one isn't something most have control over

This sounds like some BS to me. :grin:  You choose to have control or you choose not to. That's it. Just because someone is weak does not mean they don't have choice.  Just because you won't accept this doesn't mean you're right. :wink:




If grief over a lost loved one is a display of lack of control, then honestly, no living human on this planet has any control whatsoever.




Who said anything about grief and lack of control? You can grieve without trying to control anyone else. You sure like to twist things. :tongue:  You miss the point completely. :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Basilides]
    #6205297 - 10/24/06 08:22 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

BUT... I'm going to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that alot of people here simply do alot of trash talking in P&S. We're all guilty of it from one time to another. I think everyone here would respond to a said suicide scenario of a loved one with grief and extensive lacrimation like the rest of humanity.

Once again you miss the point by a mile. Yes most would grieve and that is a choice. I would grieve if my friend or lover killed them self. I would also understand that they knew best and it was their choice alone and I had no right to expect them to fulfill my desires over their own. That would be incredibly selfish and unconscious. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6205306 - 10/24/06 08:28 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

headvoid said:
Quote:

capliberty said:
But who doesn't enjoy a good horror flick.




Yeh, that's right. I love to get some popcorn and watch my sister swing from a beam with blue lips and her eyes popping out. It's a blast.

What is wrong with you people? some of you are basically saying that if you saw said blue lipped girl you could detach yourself from this entirely and not let it touch you.

Do you lot have night vision goggles and a deep basement? You are all so far down your own navels you can see your arsehole. Start telling the truth or at least debate this sensibly.




I think what we are talking about is do people have a right to be selfish with their own life. Everything else is besides the point and emotional grandstanding IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6205326 - 10/24/06 08:38 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

My next door neighbor who was a friend of sorts killed himself in my driveway.

Here's what I felt. I felt sorry that he felt so bad that life held no joy and he was suffering in his mind. At no time did I feel he didn't have the right to make that decision or that it was in any way a problem for me.

If it was a very close loved one I would feel the exact same way except I would grieve more.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6205342 - 10/24/06 08:46 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Absolutely suicide is selfish -- as are all actions. The hope, of course, is that it is a fully intentional and aware action, just as I think is the hope for all actions because of the insight that knowledge reduces suffering. If one is concerned about reducing potential impact of one's actions in relation to loved ones, communication is key. Specifically, discussing the possibility before the fact can reduce shock that prevents people from rationally comprehending the act, its details, and the loss of connection that goes along with it.

And yes, people feel things of their own accord. Grieving is a natural process to assist a person in comprehending loss, but the quality of the grief is obviously going to be different from person to person.

Any person who avoids taking their life for fear of how it'll affect others once they are gone doesn't deserve the beauty of a life of self-value. Likely they'll develop resentment towards those whom they felt obligated to.


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peacefromabovecloudtop


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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: cloudtop]
    #6205350 - 10/24/06 08:50 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yes indeed. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: cloudtop]
    #6205370 - 10/24/06 09:00 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

BTW, though it might be slightly off topic, I wanted to appreciate the values expressed in this thread by a number of people including especially Icelander, Huehuecoyotl, and Veritas. Here's hoping value systems such as these will one day be more widely expressed throughout all cultures and much suffering will thusly be eliminated.


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peacefromabovecloudtop


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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6205417 - 10/24/06 09:25 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

In response to

Poster: headvoid
Subject: Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

Oh, and I nearly forgot



Boning him must be considered an act of charity






Yes but she has SOO much to give.

Why think of killing yourself when there are such objects of beauty floating in space??


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (10/24/06 09:42 AM)

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: cloudtop]
    #6205626 - 10/24/06 10:26 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cloudtop said:
BTW, though it might be slightly off topic, I wanted to appreciate the values expressed in this thread by a number of people including especially Icelander, Huehuecoyotl, and Veritas. Here's hoping value systems such as these will one day be more widely expressed throughout all cultures and much suffering will thusly be eliminated.




Thank you. I built my ideas around this topic with the idea of supporting people in their life/death choices and recogonizing that we all have the obligation to be selfish and care for ourselves. This is IMO a healthy way to program ones self. I often would not make the choices that others do. Yet if they are not physically harming me I choose to honor their autonomy by getting out of their way with my judgements and personal demands. (that doesn't mean I won't give them my opinion but that I have no demands that they agree with it or act on it.) I can certainly take care of myself and need/want nothing that isn't freely given by others.

The kind of world I would prefer to live in is that world where we don't need to should all over each other. It's enough just to love those we choose to love exactly the way they are.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6205725 - 10/24/06 10:49 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I would say that making assisted suicide for someone terminally ill illegal is selfish. But the Kevorkian came along and maybe we need to have that remain illegal. Too many wackos out there.

Still, isn't it amazing how many doctors knowingly prescribe meds that they know terminally ill patients will take enough of to die? I mean I was amazed when a physician friend of mine confided to me that he does this as does his colleagues.

For the rest of us whose problems seem to overwhelm us to the point of suicide yet otherwise are healthy, I would say self indulgently stupid rather than selfish per se. I mean, it's an option but (usually) you don't get a second chance.

Then there are the people who have "tried" to kill themselves six times as they proudly show you their sliced wrists. I mean seriously, if I was going to kill myself I could think of a lot better ways than slicing wrists. Somehow a big drop off a tall building seems a lot faster and more certain.

So one asks oneself what is the "reward" for the person that "tries" to kill themself? Attention, attention, attention. Otherwise, there is no try there is only do.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6205744 - 10/24/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

there is no try there is only do.

True enough.

Like you I don't often agree with a persons choice to take their life when they are not overwhelmed with physical suffering. But in truth I can not know what they are feeling. I'm sure they choose to believe there is no other way out and often they seem to be acting in very unskillful ways. I think self-indulgent is the correct term and you nailed that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6205809 - 10/24/06 11:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

When in college, there were people who would jump off the bridge to their deaths 100+ feet down on the rocks. Some probably did this because they didn't make the grades needed to get into medical school or law school. Or maybe they made their first "B". It amazed me that people took school that seriously to feel that "failing" meant they needed to Gorge Out as we called it in the day. Worse, those people probably didn't say boo to anyone they just did the base jump without the parachute on that cold day in May (it was always freaking cold where I went to school and May was no exception).


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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6205838 - 10/24/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I like to get perspective. I noticed that everyone dies. I also noticed that most of us aren't important. :wink: We are all already dead in a way. So why fret about the circumstances? It's really unimportant. If we are no more important than anything else, which I believe; then it's only our programs that are making a big deal about an Inevitability. I think that's because our ego structure believes that it is immortal. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6205873 - 10/24/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I also noticed that most of us aren't important. We are all already dead in a way. So why fret about the circumstances?




I'm already dead and just waiting to get to Heaven. Other than that it's just a matter of the timing and how much BS will I choose to endure given the choice between a life of BS or the alternative. I hope it doesn't come to that but it might. I'm thinking tall building. Hey you know what would be cool, going over Niagara Falls on a raft.


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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6205893 - 10/24/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

waiting to get to Heaven.

You may have a long wait.

There is  a special place for those who shoot deer with the BB gun. :hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Basilides]
    #6205895 - 10/24/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BUT... I'm going to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that alot of people here simply do alot of trash talking in P&S. We're all guilty of it from one time to another. I think everyone here would respond to a said suicide scenario of a loved one with grief and extensive lacrimation like the rest of humanity.




The question is: did the person who committed suicide cause you to grieve, or did you react with your very own, personally-created grief response.

I, and the others who are "trash talking" (:rolleyes:), have asserted that no one causes you to feel anything.  At best, you could find a correlation between an event and your personal emotional reaction.  Correlation is NOT causation.

No one has said that they would not have an emotional reaction to a loved ones' death, by any method.  Does this mean that dying of a heart attack is selfish?  After all, they should have know that their love of deep-fried food would eventually make someone grieve.

We own our own lives, and do not owe them to anyone else, no matter how much they love us.  Perhaps it is selfish to commit suicide, but who has the right to criticize?  If someone is suffering so intensely that they no longer wish to be alive, it is selfish to demand that they live and spare you grief.

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6206080 - 10/24/06 12:39 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Hope springs eternal. Deer have tough hides...

Are you saying that anyone who shoots a deer is doomed to Hell?? What of The "real" Deer Hunter?


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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6206392 - 10/24/06 01:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Im suidideal right now, i belief the only thing thats stopping me is the fact that if i did take my own life, my bestfriend would do the same. We keep each other alive  :thumbup:


--------------------

Edited by AJ4U (10/24/06 01:48 PM)

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: AJ4U]
    #6206542 - 10/24/06 02:21 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

And what is wrong with your life that you want so much to end it?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6206582 - 10/24/06 02:30 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

headvoid said:
The taking of your own life is a selfish act. It is the wanton destruction of peoples lives around you. Think about it

1. You kill yourself at home - someone has to find you
2. You kill yourself by throwing yourself off a bridge - someone you dont know finds you and then you have an inquest
3. You throw yourself off a ferry - no-one finds you can you cant be declared dead for 7 years - more heartache for all.

Is there a way to do it without being selfish? I think not.

Unless anyone can come up with a better way?




Nice question..

Reminds me of the question, of one could 'take suicide' in self defence..
It being illegal some places and all!?

Write a letter that you attacked yourself, and claim you only try to defend against the attack,... Then you turn'ed' on yourself and killed the attacker...

Of free! :laugh:

:crazy2::thumbup:

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6206619 - 10/24/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Speaking of grief and reaction, this brings to mind the conscious decision Robert Anton Wilson and his wife made following the murder of their daughter: They strove to follow Tim Leary's example and remain positive and strong.

By this example the expression of grief becomes a choice: One can choose, in his or her grief, to be provoked into adopting a belief system out of convenience (i.e. anger towards the killer, desire for vengeance, rage rage rage...), or one can choose to remain strong in convictions and...

shit. i gotta go to work.


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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6206624 - 10/24/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Unless anyone can come up with a better way?

Smoke yourself to death. It's legal and no one will blame you because it's a socially accepted form of suicide. And you can pretend that you don't know and aren't responsible. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6206736 - 10/24/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
And what is wrong with your life that you want so much to end it?




Nothing for the first time everything is perfect, but i just cant help but feel depresse dand dont know why. I suppose theres a reason i just cant decide on what to do, i dont think i would take my life any time too soon so dont wory =)


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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6206813 - 10/24/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The taking of your own life is a selfish act.

Yes, but...! I really have a hard time understanding those who think individuals who take their own life, or attempt to take their own life, are rotten, selfish people.

If a person feels their own life is so hopelessly worthless that it would be better to end it now rather than continue on suffering, then I have a hardtime mustering up anything other than compassion. Although there are exceptions (Ex: Suicide-bombers), few people take their own life with the intent of harming those that care for them. Some may leave suicides notes which convey this message, but ultimately they decided to commit suicide because they were in a seriously negative emotional state and saw no possibility of it ever improving.

Plus, getting angry at or chastising a person who commits suicide seems to be selfish to an absurd degree. It is their life.

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6206840 - 10/24/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Sometimes people just cant get themselves out of a suicidal/depressing mind state and need a little help. Yes i could feel for the cancer patient who has a few months to live and would rather get it over with now, but i would rather try to talk someone out of it or get them to seek help before they do anything drastic.


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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: AJ4U]
    #6206913 - 10/24/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

AJ4U said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
And what is wrong with your life that you want so much to end it?




Nothing for the first time everything is perfect, but i just cant help but feel depresse dand dont know why. I suppose theres a reason i just cant decide on what to do, i dont think i would take my life any time too soon so dont wory =)




Perfect? I've never enjoyed that state of being. :wink:

so don't worry.

I won't. It wouldn't help.

Good luck, whatever you choose. :mushroom2:


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6207107 - 10/24/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I think its because i use drugs smoke pot/pop pills and in the back of my mind i know how much society looks down on drugs and the people who use them, like teachers, parents, friends and so on. Which leads me to not wanting to get help, but theres other factors besides that ( feeling good when on them/ not wanting to stop) I'v always figured the only way your gonna stop is if you wanna, and i dont but im ok with that and what people think about it :thumbup:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: AJ4U]
    #6207424 - 10/24/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

If you are really ok about these things then no one can bring you down. Including yourself. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6233257 - 10/31/06 10:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Interestingly enough another neighbor and friend committed suicide a few days ago. He drank himself to death in a very short period of time. He was determined to get out of my neighborhood. I'm starting to think people don't like me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/31/06 10:14 PM)

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Invisiblecloudtop
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6234070 - 11/01/06 07:05 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Just remember, the factor common to all of your unhealthy and unsatisfactory relationships is you.


--------------------
peacefromabovecloudtop


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: cloudtop]
    #6234184 - 11/01/06 08:21 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cloudtop said:
Just remember, the factor common to all of your unhealthy and unsatisfactory relationships is you.




That is a perfect Quote. I will remember it and I may use it. :tongue: :thumbup: :heart: :laugh: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: cloudtop]
    #6234387 - 11/01/06 09:38 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cloudtop said:
Just remember, the factor common to all of your unhealthy and unsatisfactory relationships is you.



So give them the power of change over myself ?
nope


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6234484 - 11/01/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

:confused: That makes no sense to me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblecloudtop
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6235802 - 11/01/06 05:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

BlueCoyote: who said anything about giving power of change to others?


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peacefromabovecloudtop


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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: cloudtop]
    #6235846 - 11/01/06 05:23 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe we have a language problem here. Cloudtop isn't saying that you are the "problem" in your relationships the others are not, and you need to change to make them work. He's saying you are always a part of the equation in making your relationships work. It is never just the fault of someone else. Does that clarify this at all? :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6235855 - 11/01/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Additionally, you are always the one who is choosing to relate to people whom you find difficult to get along with.  That makes you the common factor.  :blush:

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6238504 - 11/02/06 10:00 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

thanks ice, yes that clears it up a bit. but then oneself is the factor common to all relationships, not only the unhealthy and unsatisfactory ones.
The other common factor then is the 'not yourself', equals 'the other' one, what substracts to zero then, and doesn't describe the problem of 'unhealthy' or 'unsatisfactory' imho.

But I see the point. It may point to the lack of health and satisfactory of oneself, what one thinks to see and find in someone other, in the hope to discover it and help oneself (and maybe the otherone) through that.
Good hint that, thanks :thumbup:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #6238508 - 11/02/06 10:02 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

but then oneself is the factor common to all relationships, not only the unhealthy and unsatisfactory ones.

I remembered this also and a good thing to remember it is. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDAVID_ALLAN_CEO
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: headvoid]
    #6241064 - 11/02/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

headvoid said:
The taking of your own life is a selfish act. It is the wanton destruction of peoples lives around you. Think about it

1. You kill yourself at home - someone has to find you
2. You kill yourself by throwing yourself off a bridge - someone you dont know finds you and then you have an inquest
3. You throw yourself off a ferry - no-one finds you can you cant be declared dead for 7 years - more heartache for all.

Is there a way to do it without being selfish? I think not.

Unless anyone can come up with a better way?





if someone loves u its selfish if no one likes u its all u

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: DAVID_ALLAN_CEO]
    #6241078 - 11/02/06 07:58 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

A very weak statement for sure. Patent black and white BS. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDAVID_ALLAN_CEO
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6241083 - 11/02/06 07:59 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
A very weak statement for sure. Patent black and white BS. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:




its just a statement though, its not near as weak as killing yourself

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: DAVID_ALLAN_CEO]
    #6241093 - 11/02/06 08:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You haven't a clue what you're talking about. Like I said you see things in black and white. That means to me that you are living fear based.  :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/02/06 08:02 PM)

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OfflineDAVID_ALLAN_CEO
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6241129 - 11/02/06 08:12 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You haven't a clue what you're talking about. Like I said you see things in black and white. That means to me that you are living fear based.  :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:




i m a human with dead friends, now that gives me enough to say whatever the fuck i want... u are living fear based, fear that someone might disagree or might value their life just a little more than u

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: DAVID_ALLAN_CEO]
    #6241140 - 11/02/06 08:15 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Everybody has dead friends.

So you're saying that if someone is in severe pain from, lets say, cancer, and it's sure that they will die an agonizing death, it's selfish of them to want to die so you won't feel bad.

Nice. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDAVID_ALLAN_CEO
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6241155 - 11/02/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Everybody has dead friends.

So you're saying that if someone is in severe pain from, lets say, cancer, and it's sure that they will die an agonizing death, it's selfish of them to want to die so you won't feel bad.

Nice. :thumbup:




i didn t say so i won t feel bad, i said so they won t feel bad, its pretty shitty to think (from my own perspective thinking about my OWN life not the life of other s because we can t do anything about anyone else s life) that i d rather die than be with the living, just leave them, i wouldn t want someone to think that things got too bad for me to be here, i d fight fool :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6241156 - 11/02/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

My grandmother killed herself. I never knew her. Whether she knew or not she saved my mothers life. If my grandmother had never hung herself my mom would be dead, instead of sitting with me watching TV... Im not promoting suicide, nor do i beleive in the supernatural... i just felt this had to be said.


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Grumpy Old Man.

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Yarry]
    #6241193 - 11/02/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Pretty hard to understand this post?  I don't get it. :confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDAVID_ALLAN_CEO
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6241211 - 11/02/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Pretty hard to understand this post?  I don't get it. :confused:




that s pretty shaky ground then you re standing on giving me a shitty rating because u don t understand something

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: DAVID_ALLAN_CEO]
    #6241213 - 11/02/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i wouldn t want someone to think that things got too bad for me to be here,

What do you care what someone else things of you and how is that strong?

Point being that for some it might take great courage to end their life and for some it might be cowardly. Black and white statements don't cover anything at all in complex and differing situations.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: DAVID_ALLAN_CEO]
    #6241224 - 11/02/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

All right, you two, let's not get off-topic. Feel free to discuss the topic for this thread, and if you do not agree with, cannot understand, or otherwise take issue with each other's posts, and cannot contribute in a productive manner, then let's not post at all. Feel free to take this elsewhere. :grin:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Edited by fireworks_god (11/02/06 08:36 PM)

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6241238 - 11/02/06 08:38 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

My last post and at least most of the rest of them are on topic. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6241254 - 11/02/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
My last post and at least most of the rest of them are on topic. :wink:




I never stated that they weren't. I issued the statement to ensure that we do not embark on a crazy journey of fucked up nonsense. Disregard this post here so that we do not ensue with such. :grin:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6241279 - 11/02/06 08:49 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

ensure that we do not embark on a crazy journey of fucked up nonsense.

I would have to stop posting here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineLion
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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Icelander]
    #6241296 - 11/02/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
ensure that we do not embark on a crazy journey of fucked up nonsense.

I would have to stop posting here.


word, I'd probably have to stop living!  :smirk:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Is suicide a selfish act? [Re: Lion]
    #6241330 - 11/02/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

All right, all right. :grin:

:levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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