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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Icelander]
    #11380962 -

Icelander said:
Well the earth lived on after the big rock hit but it wasn't much of a nice place. Right now we are getting rid of life forms at a record pace. Destroying forest, who knows what the long term effects of all this pollution will be, the ocean which I considered invulnerable when younger is going down fast. Yeah there will still be life around but it's not the kind of "life" that I'm going to want. Shit I don't want what we got now. You youngsters don't know how much has gone for the most part. You grew up thinking concrete and tarmac was the norm. I'm glad I'm getting gone. I wouldn't want to be a kid now.


I grew up in the 90's and although id imagine it was different to your youth, I feel it was very diverse and I played and roamed in all kinds of places. This is of course, partly a function of my parents. But I don't think the urban landscape is inherently bad, as long as children learn that it is a man-made annex that is struggling to integrate with the world. I am not sure if today's PARENTS on the whole are capable of teaching their children this?


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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11381140 -

We will probably develop computers that are smarter than us before either scenario occurs. 

Space migration is looking a lot more plausible then it used to.  Just in the last five years we've discovered hundreds of planets and now we are starting to discover Earth sized ones.  We have a variety of not-so-far-off technologies that can make us travel at speeds we had never dreamed of before (we're talking about 10%,25%, or even 50% the speed of light).  Most people think that space travel is so out of the question because it has been for so long, but our technology has been exploding as of late in this area.

Computers are getting so smart though, and so has the collective human race because of the internet.  Perhaps eventually our brains will be conjoined with computers or/and perhaps all computers will be connected in a network.  The human race could become just a race of cyborgs or a single cyborg or just one computer.

Computers replacing us (a biological race) is probably just the next natural step in evolution.  I'm sure it has probably happened before on other planets.  It is ultimately to the greater advantage of intelligence in the universe though.  And we may be able to preserve our minds in various ways.

They are already working on replicating the way the brain works with computers. 

Sorry about this rant.


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:huxleyfacepalm:


Plant Trees

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? *DELETED* [Re: Nymphaea]
    #11381196 -

Post deleted by rebus_minus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: rebus_minus]
    #11381362 -

not sure how people calculate the likelihood of artificial intelligence occuring. Though if it eventually occurs, it will undoubtedly surpass human intelligence


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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11384444 -

Artificial intelligence = non-biological intelligence I guess.

Our computer technology is growing at an exponential rate.  I'm sure it's pretty likely to happen. 

The more we study the brain too the more we realize that we are just highly complex machines.  A "soul" or some other inherent human or biological property is not required to think and experience. 

Edited by Nymphaea (11/04/09 02:24 PM)

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #11387620 -

computing speed has very little to do with designing an intelligence, even though it is a prerequisite.

and it is true that we are finding that a many thought processes can and do occur without conscious awareness. People can react to stimuli and perform tasks without being able to play a conscious role. This does not show us that a soul is totally unnecessary though - on the contrary - if a soul can be represented by consciousness, then it shows us that there is something important about a soul, because otherwise, why would we have it? It is surely the most unusual trait of the human? How and why would this weird, useless phenomenon evolve into a creature?


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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11387849 -

Quote:
People can react to stimuli and perform tasks without being able to play a conscious role.


Yup. Blindsight is an extremely interesting condition.

Quote:
if a soul can be represented by consciousness, then it shows us that there is something important about a soul, because otherwise, why would we have it? It is surely the most unusual trait of the human? How and why would this weird, useless phenomenon evolve into a creature?


I'd have a few questions to derail this line of thought:
1) What defines a soul?
2) Is this idea of a transcendent soul universal? I can guarantee it is not.
3) Since it is not, why are people unaware of a universal human trait?

The idea of a soul comes from European paganism believe it or not (the resurrection and most of the Christian ideas originally referred to bodily resurrection, the soul was incorporated as the northern and western European tribes came under Christendom), and it is really just something a lot of people use to cope with the apparent disconnect between their mind and body, as well as with the end of their lives. No one knows what dying is like so it is extremely difficult to wrap our heads around it, around nonexistence of our consciousness.


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http://flickr.com/photos/mycography - A collection of my fungal photography

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: kydelic]
    #11387916 -

'if a soul can be represented by consciousness'
-in that line of questions that you quoted, we assume a soul is defined by consciousness


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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11387932 -

Im pretty sure the idea of a soul far surpasses christian thinking... it is a tennant of many eastern faiths?


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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11388004 -

Quote:
it is a tennant of many eastern faiths?


Not quite...maybe I should refine what I said, though, since the inability to conceive of one's nonexistence is universal, you can find many religions that don't believe in an immortal soul...again early Christianity, Buddhism (some sects, at least), Taoism (AFAIK), etc. I don't pretend to know too much about eastern religion because there's a lot to know, but I know that even some modern Christian sects (Eastern Orthodoxy, for example...I am one :lol:) believes in the bodily resurrection, not one of spirits or ghosts.


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http://flickr.com/photos/mycography - A collection of my fungal photography

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: kydelic]
    #11388238 -

It's hard to know exactly where the idea of a soul originated. However, Zoroaster was probably the influence on Judaism,and Christianity on many things including souls.  :peace:

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #11388278 -

Zoroastrianism is so much like Christianity it's pretty remarkable, and likely that there was some kind of cultural exchange going on...of course the resurrection story goes back to the cults of Dionysus in Greece and Osiris in Egypt, both of which are remarkably similar to the resurrection story of Christianity.


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http://flickr.com/photos/mycography - A collection of my fungal photography

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: kydelic]
    #11389552 -

And there you have it.

Unfortunately most religious folk have a very narrow window to look through. If they looked around more and studied some ancient world history they would see that many of their beliefs have been passed down and passed around for hundreds or thousands of years before their precious "one true religion" came into being.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Icelander]
    #11389566 -

This is in essence yet another Apollo vs Dionysus type thread.

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Icelander]
    #11389601 -

yeah what the fuck is with that? How can any historian believe in christianity?


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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11389627 -

People who believe in the christian myth do so for emotional reasons. Not out of any sense of rationality.

In fact there's a certain christian poster here who seems quite rational to me until the moment you get to his religion. Then he falls right off the map.:monkeydance:

Edited by Icelander (11/05/09 08:51 AM)

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Icelander]
    #11389901 -

If you know that your religion may or may not be completely true, have right at it. I'm Christian is some sense, but I borrow religious belief from just about everywhere and make it an elevation of the role of the earth, partially inspired by my use of psychedelics. It's a weird dichotomy, especially when crafting your own beliefs, to know it's not completely true but to believe in something to focus mental efforts, to provide some sort of comfort, to do all those things religion does, to provide models to be a better person (ie Christ's teachings, but not necessarily those of Christianity), etc. It doesn't have to be true to have benefit at all.

Works for me, at least.


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http://flickr.com/photos/mycography - A collection of my fungal photography

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: kydelic]
    #11389957 -

We all believe in myth.  It becomes dangerous when we believe it to be "truth". Then we fight for it.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #11390004 -

Noteworthy said:
computing speed has very little to do with designing an intelligence, even though it is a prerequisite.



 

Computing speed does have very little to do with designing an intelligence.  I did not say our computing speed is growing at an exponential rate, I said our computing technology is growing at an exponential rate.  But yes, computing speed is a prerequisite.

 

     
Noteworthy said:
and it is true that we are finding that a many thought processes can and do occur without conscious awareness. People can react to stimuli and perform tasks without being able to play a conscious role. This does not show us that a soul is totally unnecessary though - on the contrary - if a soul can be represented by consciousness, then it shows us that there is something important about a soul, because otherwise, why would we have it? It is surely the most unusual trait of the human? How and why would this weird, useless phenomenon evolve into a creature?


I am not talking about the unconscious processes that humans exhibit.  Of course those do not prove that a soul is unnecessary.  I am talking about consciousness awareness being explainable without the use of meta physics or "souls" or anything else. 

Consciousness is a useless phenomenon?  Why would it evolve?  Consciousness is not a useless phenomenon!

I can't talk about this now, but I will be back.

Before I leave though - if we made a brain that was an exact replica of a human brain, only we made it out of a different material.  Say it was still able to work the same way as a human brain.  It did the exact same things only it was a different material.  Would this brain not be conscious?


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:huxleyfacepalm:


Plant Trees

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Re: Space Migration or Archaic Revival? [Re: Nymphaea]
    #11393052 -

I think it is a silly hypothetical because we don't know if the brain CAN be replicated.
But I await your return, to explain how consciousness plays a role in the evolution of... life


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