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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell
    #5600851 - 05/07/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)



Not only is it becoming evident that the Hebrew myths which comprise the Pentateuch (Five Books of Moses) are derived from ancient Egyptian civilization (check out spell number 125 of the Egyptian Book of the Dead to see an origin of Hebrew morality); and that Moses (an Egyptian name like Thutmose) may well have been an Egyptian - possibly even the heretic pharoah Akhenaton the Egyptian monotheist - banished with followers [the Exodus]), but inasmuch as Judaism is the root of Christianity, it is imperative to look at Christian myths as having Egyptian roots, via Judaism.

As I have repeated ad nauseum on these forums, Literalist Christians (Fundamentalists in general, in Judaism and Islam as well) behave like madmen because, like madmen they fail in basic reality testing. That is to say, they cannot distinguish between myth and physical events. This confusion occurs for complex reasons - early childhood programming during developmental stages wherein logical thought has not yet appeared, the myths employ real geographical places (even if wrong in time or distance from recorded 'events'), failure to 'update' new religious programs across the lifespan, [Freudian] "wish-fulfillment" in the form of imaginary Heavens: 'Pearly Gates' or 'Celestial Virgins,' a lack of self-knowledge, fear of social ostracism, etc.

I have introduced here a pre-Christian, pre-Hebrew (e.g., Book of Daniel) scheme for Divine Jugement. The Heart, symbolizing the moral-ethical worth of a person is weighed on a scale against a symbolic feather of Maat - god of Justice. Now, be it understood that a polytheistic pantheon [all-god] merely breaks down the undifferentiated GOD into understandable 'divine principles' called gods and goddesses. It is not unlike present day worshipers of Jesus, Mary, the Father-God or saints.

The web site link explains the essential points of being found innocent or guilty, and being resurrected (after the paradigm of Osirus - the paradigm for all dead, dismembered [or crucified] god-men - of which there are several in history), or condemned to Hell (one's Heart being eaten by Ammit - the maw and bowels of Hell. Note that Hell amounts to non-existence, not endless torment from a sadistic deity). The archetype for Judgement and Resurrection is present in explicated form early on in human history. Jews and then Christians are heir to the same theme, which is mythic and therefore archetypal. Literalist Christians speak as though the New Testament scriptures are singularly unique in their message. The forms are of course unique, but the contents are universal. After all, if the New Testament embodies metaphysical Truth, and Truth is Eternal (a category of GOD alone), then the Eternal Truth certainly must pre-date any particular vehicle or tradition (Egyptian, Hebrew, Greek or other).

It seems to me that many Fundamentalist believers are simply ignorant of history. They are like adolescents who believe that THEY know something that us ancient elders do not know. Things about drugs or sexuality, being recently discovered by adolescents, in conjunction with inflated egos not based on any experience, creates know-it-all beings who can't be instructed or corrected because THEY know better! The opposite position would be a deep humility that is completely unacceptable. Since they know nothing about the experience of the elders, they construct their own adolescent world view complete with language, values and a common enemy - the grown-ups [elders].

Check out the beginning of this site if you will. It helps to put things into perspective, particularly when dealing with Fundamentalists and their adolescent-type egocentricity which claims uniqueness and a monopoly on Truth.

http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptafterlife.html


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (05/07/06 12:17 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5600877 - 05/07/06 12:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

This one I'll check out. I imagine that those who are really in need of a look are forbidden by their religious convictions.

As a kid in Baptist Sunday school our teacher said that there was no excuse for wasting time reading anything that did not come from the church as Christian literature. There just wasn't enough time in life to waste on anything else. I never for got that. He had two of the hottest looking daughters I have ever seen. Woot! I never forgot that either.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5600883 - 05/07/06 12:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

showing those mummi-fiers how mythtaken they are will be an ankhless job a featherweighted heart.
After judgment you can say Osirus,
and pledge to never do it again.


great pics.
lots to think about


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5601049 - 05/07/06 01:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

:lol:  I love your humor, rgv!!

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5607656 - 05/09/06 06:00 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Cute, very cute.

However...I am on fire with the possibility of mistaken, mishapen Christianity splitting open like an ugly pupa, and a beautiful full-color butterfly emerging into Light and Space. It's patterns will be a unique combination of Egyptian, Hebrew, Greek, Latin and hopefully Indian contributions.

The Nag Hammadi library finally available only recently, the newly translated Gospel of Judas (another Gnostic book), the terribly popular fictional 'DaVinci Code' awakening people around the world to questions they never knew existed, all might be a herald for (no, not the 'end times' funless fundamentalists), but Christianity coming of age.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5607661 - 05/09/06 06:02 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:


Not only is it becoming evident that the Hebrew myths which comprise the Pentateuch (Five Books of Moses) are derived from ancient Egyptian civilization (check out spell number 125 of the Egyptian Book of the Dead to see an origin of Hebrew morality); and that Moses (an Egyptian name like Thutmose) may well have been an Egyptian - possibly even the heretic pharoah Akhenaton the Egyptian monotheist - banished with followers [the Exodus]), but inasmuch as Judaism is the root of Christianity, it is imperative to look at Christian myths as having Egyptian roots, via Judaism.

As I have repeated ad nauseum on these forums, Literalist Christians (Fundamentalists in general, in Judaism and Islam as well) behave like madmen because, like madmen they fail in basic reality testing. That is to say, they cannot distinguish between myth and physical events. This confusion occurs for complex reasons - early childhood programming during developmental stages wherein logical thought has not yet appeared, the myths employ real geographical places (even if wrong in time or distance from recorded 'events'), failure to 'update' new religious programs across the lifespan, [Freudian] "wish-fulfillment" in the form of imaginary Heavens: 'Pearly Gates' or 'Celestial Virgins,' a lack of self-knowledge, fear of social ostracism, etc.

I have introduced here a pre-Christian, pre-Hebrew (e.g., Book of Daniel) scheme for Divine Jugement. The Heart, symbolizing the moral-ethical worth of a person is weighed on a scale against a symbolic feather of Maat - god of Justice. Now, be it understood that a polytheistic pantheon [all-god] merely breaks down the undifferentiated GOD into understandable 'divine principles' called gods and goddesses. It is not unlike present day worshipers of Jesus, Mary, the Father-God or saints.

The web site link explains the essential points of being found innocent or guilty, and being resurrected (after the paradigm of Osirus - the paradigm for all dead, dismembered [or crucified] god-men - of which there are several in history), or condemned to Hell (one's Heart being eaten by Ammit - the maw and bowels of Hell. Note that Hell amounts to non-existence, not endless torment from a sadistic deity). The archetype for Judgement and Resurrection is present in explicated form early on in human history. Jews and then Christians are heir to the same theme, which is mythic and therefore archetypal. Literalist Christians speak as though the New Testament scriptures are singularly unique in their message. The forms are of course unique, but the contents are universal. After all, if the New Testament embodies metaphysical Truth, and Truth is Eternal (a category of GOD alone), then the Eternal Truth certainly must pre-date any particular vehicle or tradition (Egyptian, Hebrew, Greek or other).

It seems to me that many Fundamentalist believers are simply ignorant of history. They are like adolescents who believe that THEY know something that us ancient elders do not know. Things about drugs or sexuality, being recently discovered by adolescents, in conjunction with inflated egos not based on any experience, creates know-it-all beings who can't be instructed or corrected because THEY know better! The opposite position would be a deep humility that is completely unacceptable. Since they know nothing about the experience of the elders, they construct their own adolescent world view complete with language, values and a common enemy - the grown-ups [elders].

Check out the beginning of this site if you will. It helps to put things into perspective, particularly when dealing with Fundamentalists and their adolescent-type egocentricity which claims uniqueness and a monopoly on Truth.

http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptafterlife.html





Either that, or all those myths come from the same source, maybe the truth?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: Icelander]
    #5607665 - 05/09/06 06:05 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
This one I'll check out. I imagine that those who are really in need of a look are forbidden by their religious convictions.

As a kid in Baptist Sunday school our teacher said that there was no excuse for wasting time reading anything that did not come from the church as Christian literature. There just wasn't enough time in life to waste on anything else. I never for got that. He had two of the hottest looking daughters I have ever seen. Woot! I never forgot that either.




You have to hand it to him, he (and the likes of him) made you the man you are today. You are a victim of reverse programing, as much as those who actually listened to the guy we victims of his programing


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5609037 - 05/09/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, from a Jungian perspective, all the myths DO come from the same source - the Collective Unconscious (or Archetypal Psyche). They are stylized and colored according to the individual culture. Take Yoruba religion for example (I've been to Yorubaland in the heart of Nigeria). When slaves were taken from West Africa, they took their religion with them. Those who were settled in Haiti among the French Catholics developed Voudun; those among the Catholic Spaniards in Cuba developed Santaria; those among the Protestant British in Jamaica developed Obeah. The entity which is Papa Legba in Haiti is Elegua in Cuba. Both are the 'messenger' deity that opens the gate to the world of spirits, and archetypally is the same deity in principle as the Egyptian Tehuti (Thoth), the Greek Hermes or the Roman Mercury. There are phenomenological parallels, of course, in other mythic systems.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5611599 - 05/10/06 05:03 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Cute, very cute.

However...I am on fire with the possibility of mistaken, mishapen Christianity splitting open like an ugly pupa, and a beautiful full-color butterfly emerging into Light and Space. It's patterns will be a unique combination of Egyptian, Hebrew, Greek, Latin and hopefully Indian contributions.





all specifics aside,
this exclusive combination you profess (predict) has already happenned in yours and other minds where these contributions mingle.

more deja vu than prediction IMO, the clearest benefit of this "image mingling" is to find ways of coexisting their major motifs, and winnowing out the conflicting chaff.

(veritas, thanks, when I have a bit of energy I like to fling flowers where I stumble too)


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5611633 - 05/10/06 05:45 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I suppose that what I see would be all the grander if what I was seeing represented an objective phenomenon, not just my own idiosyncratic perception. It would mean that a large scale awakening from dominating unconsciousness would be at hand - that an "ego-self axis" would be developing, with a portion of humanity emerging from immersion in the unconscious to a conscious awareness of the emergence. People would then be able to draw life and meaning from the mythic realm without being 'under' the infantile identity as being guilty sinners - our 'guilt' being attributed to a mythological disobedience and fall from grace inherited from our mythological parents Adam and Eve!


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5611639 - 05/10/06 05:51 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yes, from a Jungian perspective, all the myths DO come from the same source - the Collective Unconscious (or Archetypal Psyche). They are stylized and colored according to the individual culture. Take Yoruba religion for example (I've been to Yorubaland in the heart of Nigeria). When slaves were taken from West Africa, they took their religion with them. Those who were settled in Haiti among the French Catholics developed Voudun; those among the Catholic Spaniards in Cuba developed Santaria; those among the Protestant British in Jamaica developed Obeah. The entity which is Papa Legba in Haiti is Elegua in Cuba. Both are the 'messenger' deity that opens the gate to the world of spirits, and archetypally is the same deity in principle as the Egyptian Tehuti (Thoth), the Greek Hermes or the Roman Mercury. There are phenomenological parallels, of course, in other mythic systems.




But, not only are the parallels in teachings, but in tales of the events themselfs.
Specially the tales of the beginings and ends.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5611640 - 05/10/06 05:51 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It may always be just a few Markos. How fortunate to be amoung that company, even if you may never meet more than one or two or even none. You are not alone. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: Icelander]
    #5611830 - 05/10/06 08:21 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

in the context of formal forcasting, you might be amused to know that the fashion and design industry actually do use a formalized ORACLE called PromoStyl (yes this job has already been filled by "professionals" (who dictate more than just color palet for cars fabrics etc.)) and you might find that among the 4 main trends this year (see http://www.promostyl.com/anglais/project/trend_watch.php ) there are trends which align somewhat with your "prophecy / deja vu" declaration above, namely: UNITY, EDEN, PASSION, and Anti modernism.
so,
You may actually be sensing the more profit driven aspect media MEME about self affirmation that is being pumped into almost all product design, & marketting trends this year. As you are particularly attuned to these themes anyway from your own history, the tuning fork hums, as it were, from the current MEME not necessarily any deeper well of lasting changes.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5611862 - 05/10/06 08:40 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"Twas ever thus" :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: Icelander]
    #5613605 - 05/10/06 04:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

My Lady's German stepmother wrote a lon-n-g e-mail asking me what my beliefs were. I'll include my reply here (don't feel obliged to read it). She is somewhat fundamentalist but definately of the cult of Jesus. I wrote:

I prefer not to discuss doctrinal beliefs at this point because beliefs reside in the intellect and are only models or approximations of a Reality that transcends intellect. Like the model of the atom, one can never actually 'see' an atom, because sight requires that photons bounce off an object, return to a human or electronic eye, and register on a retina, a film or another light-sensitive surface. An atom is not an object but a constellation of various forces, so individual atoms will forever remain invisible. Today's atomic models far surpass the model we used in 1945 to build an atomic bomb, so even unsophisticated models can be used to accomplish a practical purpose.

Likewise with theology. There are all kinds of believers in God, in Christianity as in other faiths. Some are very sophisticated thinkers, others not so sophisticated, most are average, some below average and there are even mentally handicapped who, like children, simply demonstrate qualities of kindness, helpfulness, non-violence. I would rather align myself spiritually with a humble, mentally handicapped individual who is kind and selfless than the most profound writers of doctrine. I can certainly appreciate the most philosophical Christian theologians (Augustine, Pseudo-Dionysus, Tillich, etc.), but in practicality, intellect 'retracts' from Head to Heart in the Highest Mystical Experiences, as well as in those Mystical Moments from which we do not return to this life. Then, Compassion expands from the Heart Center - the Sacred Heart - and is Realized in Ecstatic Oneness. Christ Consciousness. Union with God.

Beliefs/doctrines separate humanity. I Know how to 'BE.' I Know that "I must decrease, He must increase." I Know that I must come to be identified with Christ because only Christ, Ecstatic Love, survives this life, and that only to the extent that I become "conformed to Christ," Realize Love as my Essential Nature, do I have Eternal Life. Everything else is annihilated. "I live, yet not I; Christ liveth in me," and ultimately, only Christ is Real. We go through life believing that we are individual 'waves' on an Ocean of Existence. We falsely believe that we are born, grow, curl, diminish and end like all waves on the Other Shore. Few of us ever arrive at the Realization that every individual wave is One with the entire Ocean. We chose to identify with form, with existence instead of with formless Essence, otherwise called 'spirit' in the ancient world.

I believe this: That which the Christian calls Christ (Logos, Love, Light, Truth) is present in other faiths as well. This is the true catholicity of Christ, not of Christianity. The Biblical myths are salvific but they are not the ONLY myths that are salvific. Truth (Christ) is mediated by the myths of other faiths as well, but only 'those who have ears to hear' are benefitted by the Truth in whatever form it is available. If the 'voice' of God can speak through Balaam's jackass, it can be discerned in the Hindu Yogi, the Taoist, the Buddhist Lama, the Muslim Sufi and even the Wiccan.

If you want to know how Rose and I regard the Bible, then read J.S. Spong's Liberating the Gospels that we left you with. You've mentioned the virgin birth (parthenogenesis). Look it up in Spong's book. December 25th - the return of the Sun - is the birthday of Mithras, Attis, Dionysus and othe god-men of antiquity. In Gandy's and Freke's The Jesus Mysteries the thesis is put forward intelligently that the Mystery Religions of initiatiatory death, dismemberment (like the paradigm Osirus), resurrection and ascent is universal to mankind. It is further reasoned that this archetypal [Pagan] theme which is first recorded among the Egyptians, is recast in Hebrew form as the story of Jesus. It is the unique claim of mainstream Christianity and the imperialistic (Roman) claim to the monopoly on Truth that occults the Truth and creates discord in the world.

I consider myself to be a Jewish Christian Gnostic (awkward as that is) because it really describes a position of being a 'Knower' [of Christ] in the truest (not in the perjoratively expressed words of Paul) sense of the word [Knower=Gnostic]. If you read Spong, some if not most of the demythologizing (which theologian Rudolph Bultmann began) will at first seem offensive. If you can withstand the death of years of assumptions, childhood programming, romanticized notions, magical and mythological embellishments, then you will arrive at a Christ of faith which in no way contradicts a Christ of reason. Our faith has not be injured in the least. Intellectual beliefs can be killed, faith cannot.

Peace and Sincerity,
Mark

And her reply was this:

"Thanks also for your reply to my mail. Me too, I don't want to
discuss any further at this point. I appreciate your sincerity."

It seems that my sincerity offended the woman - a woman who translates conversations that the below woman, Vassula Ryden, has with Jesus in her home and who once referred to this water color on the cover as a photograph of a visit!



Another Fundamentalist gone mad I'm afraid.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Ancient Egyptian Judgement, Resurrection, Heaven or Hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5613679 - 05/10/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

they get deep
then they get stuck to the bottom and can't get back into the
flowing stream without letting go of pearls they have gathered down there.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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