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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
    #5661610 -

I'm tryin real hard to be the shepherd, man. you have no idea.

oh yeah, and I love lesbians. They're fun. Yes, that is a double standard. Women get the long end of the stick on that one, as usual.


but hey, I really don't care what the gays do. Just don't do it to me, and try not to do it in my personal space. I mean, if I go to a gay club and see a bunch of guys making out, I'm not going to be offended by it. That is their environment and they can do whatever they want to in it. If I'm there, I'm not going to tell them what to do in their own club!

On the other hand, if a bunch of gays march down my street waving their gayness in my face, I might be a little annoyed. But I'd probably just turn up the stereo and ignore it. As I have repeatedly said, its none of my business.

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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
    #5661623 -

dblaney said:
Nope, didn't neglect it, see numbers 4 and 7.


Then you've already refuted your own point.


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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
    #5661638 -

dblaney said:
Oh yeah, and just about anyone who talks about genetics these days is labeled hitler. Nice stereotype there. We should stop studying the human genome to cure disease, because we sure don't want to be hitler!!!

..Not quite, just those who talk about how fucked up the gene pool is because of people not breeding for the good of the species; how the human genome has become a twisted mutant with no ability or intelligence. This is what Hitler thought. The only difference is he acted on it. And incidentally, so did the USA and probably other countries: eugenics and similar programs.




dude, if you don't think the gene pool is fucked, go downtown to the DMV or the social security card office and take a look at REGULAR PEOPLE. They are fucked! They are in pain. Their bodies are falling apart, their minds are confused.

My body is falling apart too, and my mind doesn't always work the way it should. I blame this on the generations that preceded me, and their complete lack of understanding how to breed properly.

If humans bred themselves the way Jack Herer breeds pot, we would obviously be a much better species. Seriously, would you rather smoke pot grown from shitty seeds or pot grown from Cannibas Cup winning seeds?

Of course, I don't claim to know the proper breeding methods. Hitler claimed he did, and he was completely wrong! The changes he wanted to make to the gene pool would have caused redundancy and stagnation.

But we do have very smart geneticists on this planet who can help us in our persuit of perfection. Of course they must use their power wisely, or they will end up in the same boat as hitler. But hey, medical technology exists for our benefit. I see no reason not to make use of these advancements in our understanding.

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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5661655 -

How do you explain homosexuality among other animals? Or the fact that homosexuality has been around for all of recorded human history?


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Re: On gayness [Re: Silversoul]
    #5661685 -

How's that? My point was that at the most basic level, man's nature is more yang and woman's nature is more yin. If a woman had more yang, then she would never have been born: a man would have.

Yin and yang are attracted to one another, so men are attracted to women and vice-versa. It makes perfect sense that certain yang aspects of a man may be attracted to certain yin aspects of another man. However, the desire to pursue this attraction to a sort of sexual union is, I think, a product of either an energy blockage or some early psychological developmental issue.

By no circumstances do I mean to pass judgment on this, this is just my current viewpoint on how homosexuality comes to be. I haven't thought it out too well, so I'm open to arguments :smile:


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
    #5661712 -

dblaney said:
How's that? My point was that at the most basic level, man's nature is more yang and woman's nature is more yin.


This could be seen as a general statement, but to apply it to all men and women would be a mistake. And I think it's rather judgemental to attribute homosexuality to some sort of "energy blockage," as if there's something wrong with them.

Also, I should point out that many ancient cultures did not have the strict divisions in sexual orientation that we have today. In ancient Greece, Rome, Japan, and many other cultures, it was common for a married man to have sex with other men. Of all the Roman emperors, at least up until the empire became Christian, only one of them was exclusively heterosexual. To assume that strict heterosexuality is the natural order of things to be naive to history and biology.


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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5661737 -

If public gay gatherings offend you, do gatherings of blacks and jews also offend you?


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: On gayness [Re: Silversoul]
    #5661766 -

And I think it's rather judgemental to attribute homosexuality to some sort of "energy blockage," as if there's something wrong with them.

Ok, I can see how one could think this. But keep in mind that the system I proposed earlier was that the natural state of man is to have more yang, and thus be attracted more to women, who have more yin. By this line of thinking, for a man to be attracted to another man could only be the result of some sort of energy blockage.

You're questioning whether it is, in fact, the natural state of man to have more yang and thus to be attracted to women. This is a valid criticism, and I have no idea how one could go about proving it or disproving it.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
    #5661785 -

There are plenty of gay couples who have completely different personalities from one another, sometimes one of them being more masculine while the other is more feminine. Isn't this yin-yang?


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5661805 -

Yes, I'm sure it must be, since yin is attracted to yang and vice-versa.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
    #5661835 -

So it's not really an "energy blockage", just a different kind of channeled energy then?


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5661854 -

Good question. Water and rain are considered to be yin. But I have never heard of a man pursuing sexual union with a puddle. (Though I imagine it would be very amusing)

I would imagine that almost everyone at some point has felt at least some level of attraction towards a member of the same gender. That seems to accord with the yin-yang theory just fine. However, when someone from one gender decides to pursue sexual union with another member of the same gender, by the theory it seems that they would do so because of their early psychological development, which resulted in an energy block.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
    #5661887 -

As much as I agree that everyones rights ought to be secured and respected in a civilized society, I'm fervently against so-called "gay pride parades", and other homosexual community demonstrations. I am equally disappointed with such demonstrations as I am with societies which fail to honour the rights of homosexuals. I find either side to be crude and obnoxious.

"Gay pride parades" aren't just about gay rights. They are about standing out, about creating a contrast between one community and another. Anyone with any insight in to the issue can see that gay pride demonstrations do not serve to advance gay rights -- at least not directly -- and in fact they function to stir up discontent, and to foment the hatred that some carry in their hearts. Opposing hatred with obnoxiousness is like fighting fire with gasoline. It is contributory to the horrific actions taken against homosexuals by self-righteous fundamentalist vigilantes. This is not to justify their actions. It is merely to highlight a cause-effect relationship which, if allowed to continue, will only serve to further impair the collective judgement of our civilization.

On the subject of this thread; the problems that exist in homosexual relationships are not inherent to their homosexual status. The same disconnect between partners exists almost as a rule within homosexual partnerships. Very often on the TV and radio we are told that the measure of a good partner is the measure of their savings account, the size of their car, or the size of their sex organs. There is a standard upheld which asks us to believe that the perfect partner is the one who will answer to each one of our selfish desires. This kind of attitude may not manifest as plainly in homosexual relationships, but it does manifest in ways which are characteristic of that condition.

The real problem in relationships, sexual, romantic or otherwise, has to do with the attitude people have toward one another. Instead of asking ourselves what we might do to benefit the other person, we ask the other person what they might do to benefit our self. This is the root of all the problems we have with the people we encounter, even our own family.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5661899 -

Basilides said:
If public gay gatherings offend you, do gatherings of blacks and jews also offend you?


look at you. pointing your fucking finger. Well make way for the biiiiig bad guy.


Parades offend me in general because they block traffic, are noisy, create a lot of litter, and if they are thrown by the government, they come out of my taxes. If ANY parade comes marching down my street, its a pain in the ass.

I don't give a shit who gets together in celebration, as long as they are not celebrating the fact that they are better than me. The only parade I would be offended by is a parade with the banner "J SUCKS". That would piss me off.

Why does everyone call me hitler? I think YOU GUYS are hitler. I'm just the guy that gets crucified for telling you what you don't want to hear. At least I'm honest. How many people who play the race card are closet racists themselves? Most of them.

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Re: On gayness [Re: Ped]
    #5661900 -

I think gay pride parades are fine. It's not that I think they're necessary for progress. I just think it's probably a fun event for gay people to get together. As someone with a somewhat hippy-ish personality, I enjoy going to festivals and such in order to be with "my people." I think gay pride parades present a similar opportunity for gay people.


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Re: On gayness [Re: Silversoul]
    #5661911 -

I totally understand that and wholeheartedly agree that homosexuals or whatever they want to be called should be allowed to assemble just like anyone else. I just don't think it does much for their cause to assemble in public, waving their alternative lifestyles in everyone's faces, trying to rub it in.

I don't go out and wave the fact that I smoke and trip in people's faces. You know what happens when potheads try to get together and have a parade? they get busted.

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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5661940 -

You ever heard of the million marijuana march?


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I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: On gayness [Re: dblaney]
    #5661942 -

I think it's sketchy to start mentioning mitigating psychological factors in relation to the causes of homosexuality. Attributing it to an "energy block" (personally I believe yin-yang arcetypes to be symbolic, not literal) seems to me as if you're regarding the idea itself as a subversive expression.. correct me if I'm wrong.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5661953 -

DoctorJ,

I share your opinion that gay pride parades are unnecessarily in-your-face. You have to admit, though: your post was rather charged and did solicit the kind of reaction you're getting. For example:

>> But ultimately I think male homosexuality is distasteful and unnatural. Of course, it exists within the natural universe so it really isn't unnatural, but you know what I mean.

This is a fairly balanced point of view. It's presented merely as opinion, makes no judgements, and considers things within appropriate contexts. No problem here. The problem comes with your follow-up:


>> You know why gay people tend to be neat freaks? Because they have a subconscious desire to clean up their life, which is caused by the filthy behaviour they indulge in.

This is rather baseless, I think. It sounds as though you've made yourself into the psychiatrist of the gay community, and that you've diagnosed their sickness through a severely biased and therefore unqualified lens. This kind of talk offends people. It stirs them up. In the same way that gay pride parades often offend people and stir them up, thereby worsening the debate surrounding the security of their rights, so too are these points rather pointless, serving only to attract negative attention. Even if it was your intention to present this as a point for discussion, the negative attention attracted by it's articulation prevented that from ever transpiring.

We can see the same problem surrounding the abortion debate. Demonstrations on either side whip up a flurry of anger, convolute the issue, and prevent the development of any worthwhile dialogue and understanding. But that's a whole other topic.

Just some thoughts.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5661957 -

Hey, calm down bro :tongue:

Most gay pride parades are a fun day for any community. They're colorful and creative. The idea behind parades is generally one of activism. Gays are still in a fierce political battle over their individual rights even today.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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