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Offlinechemkid
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Importance of Genetic Homosexuality
    #1132391 - 12/11/02 01:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

There has been a lot of posts on homosexuality lately and I have actually asked this question in an earlier a post.........

Why is it so important to homosexuals that Homosexuality be genetic?

I am not talking about the respect issue. Let's assume that the world was perfect and no one cared about such things.

Whether homosexuality is genetic, hormonal, brain damage, a choice, whatever......why is the reason behind homosexuality so heartily fought over by gays that it is genetic? Who cares about the reason it exists? (I am interested in it's root from a scientific point of view but the findings won't devestate me one way or the other)


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Offlinethe universe
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: chemkid]
    #1132524 - 12/11/02 01:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Because a lot of homosexuals are really just sexually disfunctional and are embarrased about it. Not all of them, but a lot of them I suspect.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: chemkid]
    #1132581 - 12/11/02 02:27 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Homosexuality isn't genetic. For one thing, gays hardly procreate (some of them do), and given the number of homosexuals, there is no way this could be a genetic phenomena.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Zahid] * 1
    #1132638 - 12/11/02 02:48 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Lots of times genes skip a generation. There is evidence which shows that it's fairly likely it is genetic.

It's not important that it's genetic, if you're referring to the debate we were having earlier, where you were saying it's unlikely that it's genetic, I was just pointing out that that is bullshit.

The real debate is whether it's a choice or not.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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Anonymous

Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: chemkid]
    #1132651 - 12/11/02 02:53 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Only gay political activists want it to be genetic. They seem to be so insecure about their lives that they can't accept it as a choice they brought on theirselves. Also, these activists are bowing to pressure from the anti-gay Christian Right. It's basically a political move to further the gay activists' agenda.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Anonymous]
    #1132660 - 12/11/02 02:56 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"They seem to be so insecure about their lives that they can't accept it as a choice they brought on theirselves."

Well, I guess that makes sense if you're stupid enough to ignore the facts that:

a) There is evidence to support the idea that it is not a choice, and...

b) There is no evidence to support the idea that it isn't.

"Also, these activists are bowing to pressure from the anti-gay Christian Right."

If you're going to make statements like this, you have to explain them. How are they bowing to their pressure?

"It's basically a political move to further the gay activists' agenda."

Ah yes, the gay agenda.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1132725 - 12/11/02 03:20 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Skipping a generation? What a narrow way to look at it. Homosexuals want it to be genetic, because if it is, then it's 'OK'. They refuse to accept that homosexuality is a somewhat accepted sexual fetish.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Zahid]
    #1132728 - 12/11/02 03:23 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Homosexuals want it to be genetic, because if it is, then it's 'OK'. They refuse to accept that homosexuality is a somewhat accepted sexual fetish.

I agree!  :wink:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: chemkid]
    #1132738 - 12/11/02 03:27 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I agree. Who gives a damn. It's an acceptance issue. If society could accept it and they (homosexuals) could accept themselves, then there would be no issue at all.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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Anonymous

Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1132755 - 12/11/02 03:34 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

a) There is evidence to support the idea that it is not a choice, and...

b) There is no evidence to support the idea that it isn't.


There is little persuasive evidence on either side. I don't know or even believe either side of this arguement... the question was on the importance of homosexuality being important to gays, and I have noticed time and time again that the only gays who even care are the ones you see on TV, leading rallies.

"Also, these activists are bowing to pressure from the anti-gay Christian Right."

If you're going to make statements like this, you have to explain them. How are they bowing to their pressure?

The Christian Right has no problem demonstrating its anti-gay feelings. Rather than simply ignore the arrogance of this political faction, the gay activists have chosen to respond by saying homosexuality is genetic. It is nothing but a political pissing match.

"It's basically a political move to further the gay activists' agenda."

Ah yes, the gay agenda.

More specifically, the special interest gay agenda. I'm not talking about the guy from work who happens to prefer men, or your gay friend who is just like you except for his sexual preference, I am talking about the homosexual rights advocacy groups. The ones who lobby for legalizing gay marriages and push for "homosexual education" in health classes around the country. By saying that their homosexuality is genetic, these people feel then that they have rights above and beyond other Americans.

As Mr. Garrison said, being tolarant just means being able to stand someone. As far as I'm concerned, nothing is wrong with being gay. But there are people who feel uncomfortable around gays, and, believe it or not, those people have a right to voice their anti-gay opinions. I also find it extremely inappropriate to teach kids about anal sex in health class... I don't even think health should be a class in our schools, but that is another story.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Anonymous]
    #1132897 - 12/11/02 04:26 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"There is little persuasive evidence on either side."

Well, first off, if it were a choice, odds would be you'd have quite a few gay men admitting that it was a choice. They can't ALL be liars. I've never met one who said it was a choice.

I know that being heterosexual wasn't a choice for me. Do you think you'd be able to switch from being attracted to women to being attracted to men? Because I sure as hell couldn't.

Secondly, there is some evidence to support the idea that it is genetic, nothing conclusive, but some. There are also some more definate links, like the well known finger length study.

There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that suggests it is a choice, as opposed to a bit of evidence that it isn't. It's pretty damn obvious that it's more likely not a choice.

If you're going to be a bigot, just come right out and admit it, don't skirt around the issue by pretending that there is an equal amount of evidence for both sides, because there sure as hell isn't. There's no way you can argue that every single gay man is lying about making a choice. There's absolutely no medical evidence that it is a choice, as opposed to the relatively small amount of evidence that suggests it isn't.

"But there are people who feel uncomfortable around gays, and, believe it or not, those people have a right to voice their anti-gay opinions."

Yeah, I know they have that right, and not once have I said that they don't. Of course, thanks to free speech, I have every right to call these people bigots and morons, and even shove a little gay porn in their faces so I can offend them for my amusement.

"I also find it extremely inappropriate to teach kids about anal sex in health class... I don't even think health should be a class in our schools, but that is another story."

Well, it's this kind of thinking that has made the United States number one in teenage pregnancy amongst first world countries. Keeping people uneducated about safe sex and sexuality is basically denying that sex is human nature. People are going to have sex, gay or straight, no matter what anybody does to stop it. They can either go into it ignorant or they can do it smartly, it's up to you.

It works exactly the same way for drugs. We can teach people that drugs are wrong and evil and should never be touched, or we can teach them that drugs can be safe when used intelligently. There's no way that we can stop drug use and maintain a free society, so the best way to deal with it is to make sure it's being done safely.

Why the fuck would you be opposed to homosexual marriages? Nobody is forcing you to marry a man, some people just want to have the freedom to do that if they choose.

...and "rights above and beyond" everyone else? What the FUCK does that mean? They aren't asking for any rights above heterosexuals. They're asking for equal rights. Can you give me an example of some right they want that's above what heterosexuals have? I'm pretty damn sure you can't.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1132911 - 12/11/02 04:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

>If you're going to be a bigot, just come right out and admit it,

I have made my argument and you have ignored it. Maybe rather than insulting me, you should consider what I have to say first.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Anonymous]
    #1132940 - 12/11/02 04:43 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"I have made my argument and you have ignored it. Maybe rather than insulting me, you should consider what I have to say first. "

Uh... I did. Perhaps you hadn't noticed that my post was a whole lot longer than that one sentance. Care to respond to the rest of it?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1132956 - 12/11/02 04:48 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Another point...

The reason that the gay rights groups are saying that homosexuality is not a choice (which is a whole lot different from genetic), is because the only evidence there is suggests that this is true. It's also because pretty much every single gay person seems convinced that they didn't have a choice.

I have no idea why those opposed to homosexuality won't admit that it's more likely not a choice. The only reason I can come up with is that they want to believe this. Why would they want to believe this? Well, they already hate gays, and they don't want to switch over to acceptance.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1132980 - 12/11/02 04:58 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

""There is little persuasive evidence on either side.""

"Well, first off, if it were a choice, odds would be you'd have quite a few gay men admitting that it was a choice. They can't ALL be liars. I've never met one who said it was a choice.

I know that being heterosexual wasn't a choice for me. Do you think you'd be able to switch from being attracted to women to being attracted to men? Because I sure as hell couldn't.

If you're going to be a bigot, just come right out and admit it, don't skirt around the issue by pretending that there is an equal amount of evidence for both sides, because there sure as hell isn't. There's no way you can argue that every single gay man is lying about making a choice. There's absolutely no medical evidence that it is a choice, as opposed to the relatively small amount of evidence that suggests it isn't."

I said little evidence, far too little for me to make an informed decision. As much as it pains me to use examples from these people, there are many "saved" Christians who have "converted" from homosexuality. And then there is another arguement that it is genetic, because some animals have shown homosexual tendencies. I could counter that by saying maybe those animals were just desperate. The point is, I will not believe one or the other until the homosexual gene is isolated and experimented with.

""But there are people who feel uncomfortable around gays, and, believe it or not, those people have a right to voice their anti-gay opinions."

Yeah, I know they have that right, and not once have I said that they don't. Of course, thanks to free speech, I have every right to call these people bigots and morons, and even shove a little gay porn in their faces so I can offend them for my amusement."

Yes, you do.

""I also find it extremely inappropriate to teach kids about anal sex in health class... I don't even think health should be a class in our schools, but that is another story."

Well, it's this kind of thinking that has made the United States number one in teenage pregnancy amongst first world countries. Keeping people uneducated about safe sex and sexuality is basically denying that sex is human nature. People are going to have sex, gay or straight, no matter what anybody does to stop it. They can either go into it ignorant or they can do it smartly, it's up to you.

It works exactly the same way for drugs. We can teach people that drugs are wrong and evil and should never be touched, or we can teach them that drugs can be safe when used intelligently. There's no way that we can stop drug use and maintain a free society, so the best way to deal with it is to make sure it's being done safely."

I am not so much objecting to the fact that schools teach sex-ed, but I take issue with many parents' unwillingness to take responsibility for their children. I think a kid is more likely to be safe and responsible about sex if he or she feels able to talk to his or her parents about sex. Of course, facts about prenancy and STDs are very important, and this is where a school environment can help.. with the scientific aspects of sex.

"Why the fuck would you be opposed to homosexual marriages? Nobody is forcing you to marry a man, some people just want to have the freedom to do that if they choose."

I don't take issue with gay marriages, I just am sick of it being rammed down my throat.

"...and "rights above and beyond" everyone else? What the FUCK does that mean? They aren't asking for any rights above heterosexuals. They're asking for equal rights. Can you give me an example of some right they want that's above what heterosexuals have? I'm pretty damn sure you can't."

Take the Boy Scouts for example. A private organization, dedicated to improving boys' lives and also one that happens to be fairly religious. Rather than accepting the BSA's ruling to expel a gay troop leader, this troop leader decided to sue for reinstatement. He tried to infringe on the BSA's right to practice its own beliefs, however politically incorrect.

And, as far as the bigot comment goes, there is really nothing I can say. I know I am tolerant and accepting of others' sexual preferences, and that is really all that matters. Just because I argue against what is politically correct, does not make me a bigot.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Anonymous]
    #1132998 - 12/11/02 05:09 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"much as it pains me to use examples from these people, there are many "saved" Christians who have "converted" from homosexuality."

This doesn't mean that they are no longer gay, it just means that they hate themselves enough to deny their own sexuality. I've seen interviews with these people, and they're talking about how it's so wonderful to be straight now, and they're still talking in that gay voice. I've also heard of people like this regressing back into the temptation of homosexuality. If it was just a silly choice they made, then why is it so tempting to go back?

"I will not believe one or the other until the homosexual gene is isolated and experimented with."

Well, "not a choice" does not equal "genetic". There are other biological causes that could lead to homosexuality that aren't necessarily genetic.

"He tried to infringe on the BSA's right to practice its own beliefs, however politically incorrect."

Well, if a black man tried to sue the KKK (a primarily religious organization) because he wasn't admitted, I would laugh and pat him on the back too.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Anonymous]
    #1133014 - 12/11/02 05:16 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"I don't take issue with gay marriages, I just am sick of it being rammed down my throat."

Rammed down your throat? The vast majority of throat ramming incidents by gay men are consensual.

I don't see what you're talking about here. People are allowed to protest whatever they want, it's a free country. It's not like the gay activist community is infringing on your freedom in any way. If the relatively small amount of coverage of gay rights issues on the news is so offensive to you, change the channel.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: chemkid]
    #1133105 - 12/11/02 05:46 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Why is it so important to homosexuals that Homosexuality be genetic?

I cannot say with certitude but I think it has to do with being accepted and evading personal responsiblity for their actions. A third reason might be to get themselves put on the roles of things like affirmative action so that all employers would have to hire a certain percentage of homosexuals. As I say, I do not know for certain.

Thanks for the thread.


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Anonymous

Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1133108 - 12/11/02 05:47 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

This issue seems to be very important to you.

Why?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Importance of Genetic Homosexuality [Re: ]
    #1133158 - 12/11/02 06:03 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not entirely sure why. I don't really have any huge personal connection with it. I'm not gay, and none of my closest friends are gay either. I have a handful of gay friends, but I didn't really know anyone gay when I first developed this opinion.

I do, however, feel that homophobia is just as wrong as racism. I also find it to be very apparent that homophobia is rampant in our society. As it stands now, gay people are treated like shit by a very large percentage of our society.

It's pretty much impossible not to witness homophobia in some form on a daily basis.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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