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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5665456 - 05/23/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

We get it.

Bum sex isn't your bag :grin:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5665463 - 05/23/06 04:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

In adults, the anus is about an inch and a half long, and it has a lining that contains blood vessels, sensitive nerve endings and six to eight small anal glands.




http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/9396.html

Quote:

The anus, richly endowed with nerve endings and interconnected with the main pelvic muscles, is the closest erogenous neighbor of the genitals and contracts rhythmically during orgasm.

With its high concentration of nerve endings, the anus can produce extreme agony when it is mistreated. Yet it can be a source of great pleasure.

The highest concentration of nerve endings is around the anal opening itself. A finger can focus on them especailly effectively. When an object or penis is inserted beyond the anal opening into the rectum, other pleasures are involved. The outer protion of the rectum, like the vagina, has several nerve endings. The inner portion responds mostly to pressure.




http://www.sexuality.org/authors/morin/analrule.html

Quote:

Your anus (asshole) is the opening to your anal canal. It has the ability to open quite wide without much difficulty, and is loaded with sensitive nerve endings.




http://tperkins.com/anal/anal_anatomy.html

Fireworks' quote was from Wikipedia, an article which does not discuss the actual anatomy of the anus.  As you can see, the anus does include "pleasure nerves" (as you so quaintly put it for those of us who read at a third-grade level.)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
I might say the biological body shows no signs of provision for homosexual relations whereas it does when it comes to heterosexual relations.




Er...nope.  We all have mouths and anuses, both of which can be mixed pleasurably with our differing sex organs.  That means that our biological bodies are ready and able to enjoy both homosexual and heterosexual relations.  (And they DO! :eek:)

My body is just as capable of enjoying oral and manual stimulation with another woman (if I chose to partake) as it is of enjoying vaginal or anal sex with a man.  My nerve endings respond, my endocrine system floods my brain and body with hormones, my arousal and eventual orgasmic release are the same.

Your facts are inaccurate, and you still have not provided any support for your ass-ertions.  :wink:


Edited by Veritas (05/23/06 04:53 PM)


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5665487 - 05/23/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

once again, you have put words in my mouth, which is a really big pet peeve of mine. 

I hang out with gay people all the time!  I even hang out with gay people who don't even know they are gay!  But I know. 

I'm not uncomfortable around THEM.  I am uncomfortable around their ACTS. 

Am I supposed to stand up and applaud for things I find distasteful?  Am I supposed to PAY for things I find distasteful?  Tell you what, I'll pay for it, but I won't cheer about it. 

Now who's the bigger man?  :grin:


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5665516 - 05/23/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think you're acting a bit odd since you're talking like gays have sex in public or something. The "act" that you find so offensive is probably something you've never even witnessed before. Well, unless your gay friends have sex in front of you :shrug:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
    #5665517 - 05/23/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

In adults, the anus is about an inch and a half long, and it has a lining that contains blood vessels, sensitive nerve endings and six to eight small anal glands.




http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/9396.html

Quote:

The anus, richly endowed with nerve endings and interconnected with the main pelvic muscles, is the closest erogenous neighbor of the genitals and contracts rhythmically during orgasm.

With its high concentration of nerve endings, the anus can produce extreme agony when it is mistreated. Yet it can be a source of great pleasure.

The highest concentration of nerve endings is around the anal opening itself. A finger can focus on them especailly effectively. When an object or penis is inserted beyond the anal opening into the rectum, other pleasures are involved. The outer protion of the rectum, like the vagina, has several nerve endings. The inner portion responds mostly to pressure.




http://www.sexuality.org/authors/morin/analrule.html

Quote:

Your anus (asshole) is the opening to your anal canal. It has the ability to open quite wide without much difficulty, and is loaded with sensitive nerve endings.




http://tperkins.com/anal/anal_anatomy.html

Fireworks' quote was from Wikipedia, an article which does not discuss the actual anatomy of the anus.  As you can see, the anus does include "pleasure nerves" (as you so quaintly put it for those of us who read at a third-grade level.)

Your facts are inaccurate, and you still have not provided any support for your ass-ertions.  :wink:



You mistakenly think you've refuted something. I've commented on the nerve endings and when it comes to anus nerves you and your sources are refering to a masochist form of "pleasure" while the actual pleasure is coming from the prostate and the erotic environment.

I am not going on a net search to argue some kids who dream up their truth over a subject which I said in my first post is not much of an interest to me.

All information I have given is based on a presentation during a larger college course, provided by a local hospital and presented by their doctors. Now who the fuck should I going to listen to, some uneducated forum-goer who doesn't comprehend his own informaiton or the medical professionals, who've worked surgerys on patients with damaged rectums - and provided slides of many of their cases? Sorry, you're out.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5665547 - 05/23/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If you bothered to check my links, you might notice that the source for the first quote is the Aetna IntelliHealth site, with data provided by Harvard Medical School.  Perhaps your local doc is a little out of the loop when it comes to anal anatomy.

The anus and rectum are not the same thing. (See my links, provided for your further education). The rectum is, indeed, not endowed with an abundance of nerve endings.  The anus, however, is rich in nerve endings and a great source of pleasure during anal sex.

This arrangement is actually very similar to the vagina, as the nerve endings are situated in the first few inches, and sensation beyond that point is more about "fullness."

You have asserted that we are not designed to enjoy homosexual intercourse, but the facts simply do not support this assertion.  Have you another source for your claims besides your memory of Doc Bakker's lecture on rectal ruptures at Podunk Community College?  Oh, right...you can't be bothered to support your arguments with any actual (factual) data.  :rolleyes:

I have not only provided you with links for every single one of my quoted facts, I also base my assertions upon my personal experience with anal sex AND a course in Human Sexuality.  Masters and Johnson? Kinsey?  Ring any bells with you?  I thought not.

When you must resort to absurd personalisms such as calling me an uneducated kid, when you have no idea of my level of education or age, it is clear that you cannot prove your points through actual debate methods.  'Nuff said.


Edited by Veritas (05/23/06 05:21 PM)


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
    #5665665 - 05/23/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
The anus and rectum are not the same thing. (See my links, provided for your further education). The rectum is, indeed, not endowed with an abundance of nerve endings.  The anus, however, is rich in nerve endings and a great source of pleasure during anal sex.
....

You have asserted that we are not designed to enjoy homosexual intercourse, but the facts simply do not support this assertion.  Have you another source for your claims besides your memory of Doc Bakker's lecture on rectal ruptures at Podunk Community College?  Oh, right...you can't be bothered to support your arguments with any actual (factual) data.  :rolleyes:

I have not only provided you with links for every single one of my quoted facts, I also base my assertions upon my personal experience with anal sex AND a course in Human Sexuality.  Masters and Johnson? Kinsey?  Ring any bells with you?  I thought not.

When you must resort to absurd personalisms such as calling me an uneducated kid, when you have no idea of my level of education or age, it is clear that you cannot prove your points through actual debate methods.  'Nuff said.




Designed what do you consider that means? If the human body had no design to it there would be no human body - it has nothing to do with religion. I'm not responsible for your jumping to conclusions.

Btw, your ridiculing the presentation I received, the college it took place at, and the hospital and medical professionals that conducted it really showed that you do, in fact, know what you're talking about, that your information (which is not even contradicting my comments) has shown that homosexual sex is just as intended as supported by the human body as heterosexual sex. Really. No I mean it, really. Or maybe...

Your personal experience with anal sex counts for jack all and you should know that without me mentioning it. I suppose your dick saw what was happening to the rectum wall during your sex, and it had a pleasant conversation with a vagina in which they discovered all about each other's workings, intentions and origins.

A course in human sexuality, wow, that's top level right there. Tells us right away that there's no bias, that they're discussion in technical terms rather than sensual ones, sure.

Nice to mention Kinsey and Masters & Johnson. However they focus a lot more on the psychology, sensuality and manipulation of sex for the purpose of increasing pleasure. Not exactly material I'd use to prove an argument on our subject of discussion.

Absurd personalisms? You have demonstrated that you're uneducated, your data supported my claims and you ignore context. If you aren't uneducated then you are biased, as many are, out of fear of being labeled discriminatory or hateful - claims with no basis. There are no debate "methods," this isn't a game, there's just one truth behind every matter. Just because you partake in an activity doesn't mean the truth is always going to enforece that activity - but this is the stance you seem to be taking.


Edited by Disco Cat (05/23/06 05:50 PM)


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5665675 - 05/23/06 05:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Just a question.. if anal sex wasn't pleasurable, why do people do it?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5665683 - 05/23/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Who says it isn't pleasurable? Quote me, please, then I'll put that quote back into context for you.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5665710 - 05/23/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So you agree it can be pleasurable. If so, why?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5665787 - 05/23/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

because it stimulates the prostate or the g-spot (the g-spot can be stinulated thru vaginal sex, the prostate can be stimulated by pressure from the outside, or shallow insertion with anything - a penis fully inserted can easily cause damage). On top of that eroticism is suggested, not imposed.

http://www.narth.com/docs/attemptstomodify.html

If sexuality is changeable then the "born that way" theory is out the window. Therefore there can be claimed that there is a "proper" (word used loosely) and improper to the subject. This would be evaluated based on the purposes and reprecussions of separate actions. This also brings to question the issue of sex-orientation's origin. Evironment can only be claimed so far - I am much more inclined to attribute it to an individual person's conlusion and insight, which might be based on experiences, or might be based on incomplete information in their own understanding.

http://www.narth.com/docs/spitzer3.html

Reading for additional contemplation, but not directly supporting anything:
[url=http://www.narth.com/docs/recent.html]Studies on
Homosexuality and Mental Health[/url]
Gender Differences Are Real
http://www.narth.com/docs/fathers.html


Edited by Disco Cat (05/23/06 06:19 PM)


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5665852 - 05/23/06 06:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I see your points on physiology, but psychologically, it is highly unproductive and unhealthy for homosexuals to under-go "conversion theraphy". There is no point to it either.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5665888 - 05/23/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I do not know of the health implications, however the study does not just claim that someone can behave as tho they were of the opposite sexual orientation, but discovers that sexual-orientation can be entirely shifted. Therefore homosexuality cannot be proved by the desire of homosexualty, just like the outcome is not proved by the outcome, but by the cause. I'm not suggesting I know a cause, I'm saying if a cause is not known & the functions are not shown to be supported, then, while there is knowledge which gives good reasons to think homosexuality lacks an intended fulfillment on an emotional, psychological, or physical level, I wouldn't go around blowing the gay pride trumpet.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5665900 - 05/23/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Why is it so important that we know what "causes" it? It's irrelevant what the cause of homosexuality is.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5665934 - 05/23/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Why? Is discovering the cause of a medical disease irrelevant? I don't mean homosexuality, but the dicovery or cause is what will help us define what it is exactly, whether it is beneficial or not, whether something can or should be done about it. It is very possible that homosexuality is a disease in the manner that depression is a disease. People with depression could hate to be told that there's something wrong with them and so make a depresion-pride movement.

Then people on forums would not tolerate someone commenting to say that they don't think depression is "natural," and they would be self-righteous in their ignorance. But they would swear up and down that it is as "valid" as happiness. In the same manner that perhaps it is right to be "cured" of depression all current knowledge bears the tone that the outcome might be the same for homosexuality.

A while ago I read a really thorough study that took the claim of homosexuality being natural in the animal kingdom (a myth which was based on a single documentary which turned out to have faulty data) and examining each example was able to discover that homosexual-orientation is really not present in animals at all. I am looking for that article now, but why would homosexuality be "natural" in humans if it isn't in animals?

By the way, I really appreciate your asking questions and discussing this withought a biased look at each sentence.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5665972 - 05/23/06 06:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Largely in part why it's irrelevant I believe is because, regardless its origins, homosexuality appears to be intractable in either case. Whether gays are "born that way" is definately up to debate, however just because one isn't born that way doesn't mean that homosexuality is not intractable. Even the sexually "converted" contend that their attractions to those of the same gender will always remain, conversion therapy seems to be more or less a regression therapy, which is why the American Psychological Association has spoken against the conversion movement as profoundly mentally unhealthy.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5665979 - 05/23/06 06:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I found the Animal Homosexuality Myth study, here it is:
The Animal Homosexuality Myth


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
    #5666003 - 05/23/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

hey veritas!

you seem to confuse love with sex and prettiness with real beauty a LOT.

perhaps in your next life I will teach you how wrong you are.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5666429 - 05/23/06 08:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Btw, your ridiculing the presentation I received, the college it took place at, and the hospital and medical professionals that conducted it really showed that you do, in fact, know what you're talking about,




Yes, exactly my point about your many personalisms.  I guess it is different when you are mocking others than it is when your sources are being mocked, though.  :smirk:

Quote:

Your personal experience with anal sex counts for jack all and you should know that without me mentioning it. I suppose your dick saw what was happening to the rectum wall during your sex, and it had a pleasant conversation with a vagina in which they discovered all about each other's workings, intentions and origins.




I'm not a guy.  :lol:

Quote:

A course in human sexuality, wow, that's top level right there. Tells us right away that there's no bias, that they're discussion in technical terms rather than sensual ones

Nice to mention Kinsey and Masters & Johnson. However they focus a lot more on the psychology, sensuality and manipulation of sex for the purpose of increasing pleasure. Not exactly material I'd use to prove an argument on our subject of discussion.




Are you familiar at all with the Kinsey Report or the "in-depth" physiological research conducted by Masters and Johnson?  Oh...guess not.  If you had taken a University course in Human Sexuality, instead of a medical class in rectum ruptures, perhaps you would have a grasp of sexual anatomy.

Quote:

There are no debate "methods,"




Yes, there are actually. (Humorous examples, but actual structure: http://www.ninjapirate.com/logic.html)

Just because you are completely unaware of them does not mean they do not exist.  Similarly, just because your anus is not a source of pleasure for you, does not mean it has no nerve endings or is not "suited" for sexual intercourse.

BTW, it is very interesting to me that, when you finally decide to post links to sources, you post many links to ONE source: the National Association of Rehabilitation and Therapy for Homosexuality (NARTH.)
They certainly wouldn't have any bias!!  :eek:

Homosexuality in animals (from agencies NOT involved in so-called re-orientation therapy):

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=27742

http://www.adherents.com/misc/paradoxEvolution.html

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n1_v151/ai_19027025

http://www.echonyc.com/~stone/Features/BioExEssay.html


Edited by Veritas (05/23/06 08:56 PM)


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Veritas]
    #5666628 - 05/23/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Where's the substance Veritas?
Somehow, The National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality
becomes:
"the National Association of Rehabilitation and Therapy for Homosexuality "
Is this supposed to be a joke? You just make shit up and attempt to use it as a proof of biasedness? You've lost Veritas, you didn't need to shame yourself with such low methods as blatant intentional misrepresentation.
That one was the worst yet. I'm suprised that you'd conduct yourself like that. I hope no-one will take your word as meaning anything valuable any further on this issue.

Find me the bias in the works. You don't just make up a name and then display your phony title as cause to dismiss the work, that's just disgraceful for you. Find the fault in the work or don't post at all.

That site evaluates many studies by activist groups and they always analyze the information in full explanation to see if it stands or falls - they never slap bullshit titles on their opposition and say that's that. I believe some of those reports of animal homosexuality you posted are even found faulty in the source I gave.

Quote:

In summary, the homosexual movement's attempt to establish that homosexuality is in accordance with human nature, by proving its animal homosexuality theory, is based more on mythological beliefs and erroneous philosophical tenets than on science.




Give it a read Veritas, come back when you have something relevent.
http://www.narth.com/docs/animalmyth.html


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