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Offlineribbit
up till dawn

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1128302 - 12/10/02 11:37 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

People can't choose what the ARE, just what they DO.

that is a point i was trying to make, that condition C is choosing of the lifestyle,
they may not be psychologically gay to begin with, but they chose to have same sex relations.


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: teardrop]
    #1128314 - 12/10/02 11:42 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

They say that when a fetus is exposed to a high testosterone to estrogen ratio, their index finger is shorter than their ring finger, and vice versa.

That's very interesting... my ring finger is slightly longer than my index finger, but it's so slight that they look the same size. Also, I accept and try to nurture the female aspects inside me, or the anima as Jung would say... So some would probably view me as being more "soft" than the average male. But I'm not gay... at least not yet.  :smile: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: chemkid]
    #1128318 - 12/10/02 11:43 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Genetically speaking it is very unlikely that this is the root of homosexuality. The entire human genome has finally been mapped (except for the exons) and nothing has remotely pointed in this direction (although there are still many genes whose functions are unknown, it still does not appear to be genetic)"

ArrrrGgh! It's posts like this that piss me off. The entire human genome has been mapped, yes. But we have no fucking clue what 99.99999999999999999999999999% of it is for. We don't know what is and what isn't genetic. There have been inconclusive studies linking genes to homosexuality.

This is pseudoscience at it's best. Use scientific terminology, act as if you know what you're talking about, but really just posting complete gibberish.

You raise a valid point about it not being genetic, but biological, but you're not backing it up with any real facts.

"Eventually a huge increase in testosterone begins developement of the male sex organs. This is the single most important difference between the X and Y chromosome"

That's not correct at all either. X and Y are not female and male. Females have two X's, males have an X and a Y.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1128321 - 12/10/02 11:45 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Take hermaphrodites for example, they are genetically one sex, but they have physical traits of another."

Arrrgh!
Not genetically! Genes don't determine sex! They could cause a change in development that would lead to different sexuality.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Edited by Phluck (12/10/02 11:46 AM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: Murex]
    #1128325 - 12/10/02 11:48 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"I think it very well could be a disorder, but I think most won't accept this view even if it was proven true. "

'Disorder' is just a view, it can't be "proven true". It's only a disorder if it causes problems. If being gay were totally acceptable in our society, I'm sure RebelSteve would have no problems with being gay, and there would be no reason to consider it a disorder.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: homosexuality [Re: Evolving]
    #1128330 - 12/10/02 11:50 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

One study has shown that 20% of homosexuals were born gay, the other 80% were sucked into it.

I knew a gay man that was born in Boston and reared in San Francisco. He later moved to Oakland to get a little color in his cheeks.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: homosexuality [Re: ]
    #1128350 - 12/10/02 11:56 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Everytime a moderator sees a huge jump in the post rate on a subject a little light goes off and they check to see if it is a flame war.

Do you sit behind a huge panel of lights and gauges like a nuclear power plant control room balancing levels to prevent an emotional meltdown?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1128402 - 12/10/02 12:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

"One study has shown that 20% of homosexuals were born gay, the other 80% were sucked into it."

I don't see how you could accurately do a study like that, especially considering we have no clues about the intricacies about how being gay works.



Perhaps my humor is a little too dry for most people. Swami was the first one to display the understanding that this was a joke (I thought the Woody Allen quote would have tipped more people off).


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: homosexuality [Re: Swami]
    #1128406 - 12/10/02 12:21 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

I knew a gay man that was born in Boston and reared in San Francisco. He later moved to Oakland to get a little color in his cheeks.



He he he, I bolded some words so maybe someone else can get the joke.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: homosexuality [Re: Evolving]
    #1128423 - 12/10/02 12:28 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

There is a bill in Congress to legalize bi-sexuality. After much discussion, it appears the vote could go either way...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: homosexuality [Re: Swami]
    #1128442 - 12/10/02 12:36 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

LOL :grin:


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1128481 - 12/10/02 12:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

OK Phluck I will speak clearly and slowly for you.....it seems reading comprehension is another area where you should be concerned, not just sexuality.

ArrrrGgh! It's posts like this that piss me off. The entire human genome has been mapped, yes. But we have no fucking clue what 99.99999999999999999999999999% of it is for

Wow that is exactly what I just said in the paragraph you replied to, However your estimate of 99.99% of the genes being unknown is inaccurate.

You say I have not backed up my statement with any facts....did you read anything I wrote? I used many facts. If you read a book on genetics, biochemistry, or biology you will find my statements hold their weight.

That's not correct at all either. X and Y are not female and male. Females have two X's, males have an X and a Y.

I never said that 'X' was female and 'Y' was male....did you pull that one from the air? I was stating the major difference between an X chromosome and a Y chromosome so that in the event they come together you can see how the two different sexes are formed.....namely.....hormonal.

You need to go and evaluate who is speaking gibberish. I clearly listed in parentheses when there was still some debate.

READING IS PHUNDYMENTAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: homosexuality [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1128482 - 12/10/02 12:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Is there a gene that makes one wear a black leather vest over bare skin along with chains, grow a drooping mustache, wear sunglasses at night, a funky captain's hat and to hang out in bars with names like "The Arena" that play old disco?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: Evolving]
    #1128494 - 12/10/02 12:49 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I got the "sucked" joke, but I figured that you were also trying to quote some fact.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: chemkid]
    #1128503 - 12/10/02 12:53 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"If you read a book on genetics, biochemistry, or biology you will find my statements hold their weight."

Not if you read the whole book. There is no reason to believe that a homosexuality gene is implausible. None.

"However your estimate of 99.99% of the genes being unknown is inaccurate."

Is it? What would be more accurate?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1128561 - 12/10/02 01:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I think your are confusing implausible with impossible.

It's not very plausible that it is genetic......but still possible. I have no problem stating as much, but many studies have been done to no avail.

Why is it so important to you that it be genetic? Whether it is genetic, hormonal, a choice, brain damage, or the gay fairy made it that way........what does it matter?

Suffice to say--homosexuality exists and unfortunately so does hatred for it. I see no point in getting upset of the cause however.

If it is found to be genetic I wouldn't be in the least bit shocked....if it is found to be hormonal I wouldn't be in the least bit shocked. I am trying to inform only on recent findings. In the end.....I don't really care what the cause is!!!!


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: homosexuality [Re: Swami]
    #1128582 - 12/10/02 01:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Do you sit behind a huge panel of lights and gauges like a nuclear power plant control room balancing levels to prevent an emotional meltdown?

Well, sorta. It is a primary concern of mine that people be civil towards one another in this forum. I have no problem with people attacking ideas even violently attacking them as long as the attack is against the idea and not the person. When that happens emotion clouds reason and we get nowhere.

Of course you weren't the first to get Evolving's joke. I got it and laughed as others tried to find real meaning in it.

What I find interesting is the intensity with which some of the members argue about this issue. That always means they have some sort of vested interest in the outcome. The ego is in full bloom when that happens.

Cheers,


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: chemkid]
    #1128710 - 12/10/02 01:43 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"It's not very plausible that it is genetic"

You keep saying that, but you haven't really backed it up with anything other than "it doesn't seem plausible to me". Why is it not plausible?

I'm not saying that it is or isn't genetic. I think it's just as likely that it is genetic as it is likely that it's some other biological cause.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: homosexuality [Re: Swami]
    #1128859 - 12/10/02 02:29 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

i dunno, but woof!  send him my way and i'll assure he receives some season's beatings  :cool: :blush: :cool:


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineFed911
fuck the poe

Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 298
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1128878 - 12/10/02 02:35 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I think gays should be shot...


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