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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: Soulecho]
    #775471 - 07/25/02 05:13 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I am of the well thought out opinion that if the ratio of homosexual men to heterosexual men were to increase and all women were to become bisexual, that a state nearer to heaven on earth could be achieved for the remaining heterosexual men. Of course I am speaking as a heterosexual man who will remain so.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,487
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: chemkid]
    #775615 - 07/25/02 06:27 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard some interresting statistics about Homosexuality. They have found that chances of the youngest male in the family has a higher chance of being homosexual. They think has something to do with the testeosterone levels in the mother being used up with the previous children. I dont know too much about the topic but I found this interresting.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Offlinetherewatchingme
The GreatMilenko

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 217
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Jellric]
    #775640 - 07/25/02 06:37 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)



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[Everything stated above is, fictional, and is a result of a delusional mind, role playing]


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Offline11polakie11
PeripheralCustodian

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 112
Loc: G-Ville FLA
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
Re: Genetics and homosexuality...the point? [Re: therewatchingme]
    #776152 - 07/25/02 09:53 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

To therewatchingme - I am no defect. Genetics do not explain the basis of EVERY behaviour, the study of genetics and sociobiology as proven this. There are theories, but there are not many absolutes. So, defect? no. Difference? yes. Still valid people even though they are different people.

adam


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-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_


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OfflineTripalistic_One
Bodhisattva
Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: buttonion]
    #776399 - 07/26/02 12:11 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

It appears I was not to firm in that belief. I have since changed it.
After a lengthy conversation with a gay friend of mine, I have decided that being homosexual can either be a choice, or something you are born with.


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The Bodhisattva Vow


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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: Tripalistic_One]
    #776852 - 07/26/02 03:11 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Wow. I think that is the first time I have read a post in this forum where someone admits they have changed their opinion or belief on something- rather than continue to defend a lame argument or just drop out of the conversation all together. Cool! I vow to do the same if it happens to me!


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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OfflinePaleE
journeyman

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Who are you? And why do ...
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: chemkid]
    #778586 - 07/26/02 10:35 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

hmmm...the first post makes the assumption that the only goal of sex is procreation...
most of my sex (actually ALL of my sex) has been motivated by pleasure seeking, energy whatever...
I don't think it matters much...
in the context of long term surviaval on Gaia, the fags are actually doing the world a favor by not pumping out more spawn...over population is getting NUTS!
So many things can get us off...
I like my autoSexual impulses...(on demand, 24/7, wether i need a tug er not hahaha!).
I dunno...i dig that PUSSY on my tongue, that's for sure...couldn't image prefering a blast of jizz...

Thx,
the pale e


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: PaleE]
    #778749 - 07/27/02 01:01 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

To be honest with you PaleE I agree with most of what you said. But it is a bit off topic. I never made the assumption that the only goal of sex was for procreation. I am merely trying to point out the connection/disconnection of homosexuality and genetics. Since evolution/biology doesn't favor (necessarily) enjoyment only survival that is why I brought up biologically unviable.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: chemkid]
    #780680 - 07/28/02 01:24 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Also if homosexuality was genetic you would find it running in family lines......this isn't the case.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Invisibleshroomerylurker
lurker
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 408
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: chemkid]
    #780986 - 07/28/02 04:36 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

One question, why do you give a dam?

Really, why is it even an issue for you?

Did you have a conversation about it and then post, or see something on t.v. and then post, or is this something that you have been batting around in your brain?

If this is something that you think about a lot, why is that? Like wise if you just had a conversation about or something it why did you chose to take it to a different medium?

Why does it matter more then what someone likes on there pizza, or what kinda clothing they wear, or what they chose to put into there bodies?

And also, associating homosexuality with rape, your a jerk, sorry, but you are, hands down. And yes, your association does kinda make me think that you have some pent up discontent with the gay community, or maybe just some gay feelings that you have had and are disgusted with. (I don't mean that as a put down, I love being queer!)

You see coming from the perspective of a bisexual I think any single sex orientation is a sickness, why would you not want the best of both worlds??

Also most men are obsessed with sex. Imagine having partners that are just as obsessed with sex as you are, scary combination right....

Also it is easy to see why homosexuals want to let it be known that it is not a choice, if you say that it is you open your self up to more discrimination.

But really, why do you care? Why is it any big deal to you, are you struggling with the issue yourself? And if so, why? Is it because of your up bringing, your religious beliefs, because your unhappy with previous gay friends, what?

Also, I can't see why on earth your gay friends where so pushy with you, the best strategy for turning out members of the same sex is to be really open with your sexuality and be confident and they will just follow you around like your some queer god, that is if they have those feelings. Maybe you just have this issue in your head and you over analyze all of there moves unjustly.

Lurker


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: shroomerylurker]
    #781102 - 07/28/02 05:32 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I can see you are another one of those types of people........as soon as someone mentions anything near a negative point of view toward homosexuality then................"he must be insecure in his sexuality, he must be a closet homosexual himself, he must be a gay basher, he must be closed minded" . Is this the best you can bring to the table. It is no wonder the gay community has such a difficult time getting mainstream America to understand you or accept you. Anytime someone comes with a legitimate debate you bring no answers, only shallow comments with no thought or content. At least people like Buttonion were trying to make some understanding and asking legitimate questions in return, you my friend are either a teenager or an idiot.

>One question, why do you give a dam?
Really, why is it even an issue for you?<<

Well because the truth is always important. By your logic no scientific breakthroughs would ever be made because really, why does it matter?


>>You see coming from the perspective of a bisexual I think any single sex orientation is a sickness, why would you not want the best of both worlds??<<


Isn't this sweet!!! You say I am a jerk for saying that homosexuality is a sickness and you turn right around and do the same thing........grow up!!
As for your comments about why my gay friends were pushy with me.......did you read my posts?? I have no gay friends and never remarked as to how they were pushy.
Let's hope in the future that you actually read the posted questions and come with intellligent debate. I assure you that if you are a marker for your community then I want nothing to do with you and your narrow ideas. If buttonion is a marker for his community than maybe there is some hope of understanding and middle ground. Go home kid and learn a few things!!!!!!!!


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


Edited by chemkid (07/28/02 05:37 AM)


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Offlinetherewatchingme
The GreatMilenko

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 217
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: chemkid]
    #781354 - 07/28/02 11:28 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------
[Everything stated above is, fictional, and is a result of a delusional mind, role playing]


Edited by therewatchingme (07/28/02 11:31 AM)


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OfflineAmoeba665
strange
Registered: 05/24/00
Posts: 275
Loc: a hidden microutopia at t...
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: therewatchingme]
    #781383 - 07/28/02 12:14 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

chemkid: "Also if homosexuality was genetic you would find it running in family lines......this isn't the case"

what about recessive genes that can be carried down for several generations without ever actually manifesting themselves. for example... Mark has a recessive "homosexuality" gene (hypothetically speaking, of course, if such a thing were to exist). he could be straight and still carry the gene. he could have 4 children, there is a 25% chance of each of them getting that recessive gene from Mark (so 1 out of those 4 children will probably carry it). if his wife Nancy *doesn't* have that same recessive gene, there is *no* chance of that gene becoming dominant and manifesting itself in one of the children. but it would still be potentially carried down. if she *does*, there is a chance that it could become dominant in one of the children. so you see this could go on for several generations before manifesting itself.
but anyway, .. there is also the possibility of a mutation or a DNA error.

and now, before any homosexuals take offense at this... mututation is a *natural* occurence. its part of nature, its everywhere. there *is* a chaotic element to nature. its not bad or good. it just is. also, i do believe that - according to nature - the purpose of sex is procreation. that's the reason we're attracted to each other, the reason orgasms give us this intense pleasure - its a fucking trick to get us to make babies. we get pleasure out of it because otherwise we wouldn't do it.

as for hormones... it makes a lot of sense.. but then, what about the feminine guys who are straight but everyone thinks they're gay? are they just in denial? or the masculine guys who are homosexual? does that mean its necessarily a lifestyle choice?

anyway.. my personal experiences here. my little brother is retarded. it's not hereditary his brain just didn't develop right. he learned to squirm on his belly for years before he learned to crawl, he can't talk (but he understands what we say - ?!?), he still shits his pants. its not pretty. it just happened. who's to say homosexuality doesn't happen the same way? perhaps its a more common occurence that what happened to my brother.

also, one of my best friends is gay. when i met him he was extremely homophobic. i used to bug him to not be so harsh. i also thought it was odd, because he just seemed to have a lot of feminine features. he also saw a psychiatrist and took a few medications.. panic attacks, depression, etc.. eventually after i had known him for several years, he told me he was gay.. it was definitely not a lifestyle choice. he was very afraid that i wouldn't accept him anymore. but all i could think was "what took you so long to get to this point?" he's much happier now. and he's not a flamer or anything.. most people don't know he's gay, although if you're around him for a while you start to notice something "odd". he doesn't like the people who are "flaming" and who act like little girls.. he doesn't think its anything special at all, its just the way it is. so i think its something you are born with - hereditary or mutation possibly - or its a choice you make, for some confused reason. either way, its doesn't make you a good person *or* a bad person.

sorry if this has been covered before; i haven't read the whole thread.


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Edited by Amoeba665 (07/28/02 12:44 PM)


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 18 years, 7 days
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: Soulecho]
    #781574 - 07/28/02 04:11 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I knew I was gay as early as 10 years old (I'm 26 now), but i wound up going into denial about it. 16 years of depression and 3 suicide attempts later, I'm finaly comfortable with who I am. But it shoudnt have been like that, and I blame Society and Religion for what I had to go through.

You really shouldn't make a big deal out of it, what other society would be more tolerant of your lifestyle? I take it you either live in Canada or the United States. In the next decade you'll be able to get married. You blame religion; even though most people who tormented you through your years were probably not religious unless they were a follower of Rev. Phelps or had a fundamentalist agenda. While mysteriously all abrahamic faiths condemn the act of sodomy (be it man and woman or man and man) the scriptures don't really make a big deal out of it. It forbids the act of sodomy, and logically I can see why. It doesn't teach to hate homosexuals, but to hate the sin.


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Invisibleshroomerylurker
lurker
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 408
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: chemkid]
    #781891 - 07/28/02 07:43 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

First off,
"I assure you that if you are a marker for your community then I want nothing to do with you and your narrow ideas"
My community, yea, I will tell everyone a the meetings that you don't want anything to do with us.

I mean come on. You danced around my question but did not answer it, what made you bring that question here? Scientist will figure out if it is genetic or not, your not resolving that issue by bringing it here. You are fulfilling your need to talk about it. Why is that, my question is why does it matter to you, any more then why some people like cats and some like dogs. Does not mean that your a homosexual, or you ever will be, why jump to that conclusion? I was thinking a coworker might have brought it up or something, or a family member is gay and you don't like it. Hell you might have just wanted a thread that got a lot of replies.
If it was just truth your after, why did you not make a thread on the genetics of people liking anchovies or Pepsi vs. coke? I really don't think it is the truth about the issue your after, what do you think someone here knows? Why not go to a genetics research center or something if the truth about that is what your after. You didn't you brought it to a magic mushroom message board. Which leads me to believe that your venting for some reason other then finding the truth.
I mean you can dance around my question forever but it is still there. So why not take a look at your self for a bit, find the issue, resolve it, and move on. Because the issue that you brought up really will not be resolved on this forum. That's all I am saying.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: shroomerylurker]
    #782075 - 07/28/02 08:58 PM (20 years, 2 months ago)

Amoeba: you're right in the fact that if a gene exists for homosexuality and it is recessive then it will be masked until it meets up with another recessive gene in the spouse of the original carrier. So it may indeed take a couple generations to manifest itself. None the less it would still be traceable in family lines. Don't get me wrong, there have been some families that have had more than one gay person but statstically speaking the numbers have never added up to where one could say that it is genetic. Good comment though!!

Lurker: the origini of my interest is in being a biochemist. The reason I am posting is to propogate truth. As to your silly arguing over "why are you worried about it".....I am not "worried about it". I have made a post to stimulate conversation and understanding. You have brought no knowledge to the table. Do you simply cruise through posts talking ignorantly for the hell of it? Or, do you have something real to add? It makes no sense what you ask "why did you post in this forum"....why has any post been made in any of the other forums? Well it's for the sake of discussion. Why is this place any less appropriate than other forums like a genetics board or evolutionary board, etc......this happen to be a spirituality and "PHILOSOPHY" board. This is actually the perfect place to discuss this. As for the topic......why has anyone chosen the topics they posted? Is there some grand conspiracy behind their posts? Is it not really the truth they are after? We could ask you the same question....why are you answering in this forum.....do you really hope to resolve this issue or are you just starting senseless arguments? So here is what I propose: Stop being an idiot and questioning my motives for making this post (oh yeah it's because I have penned up homosexual frustration, huh?) instead, bring some answers. You obviously have strong feelings about this so make your point known. If you truely want to build a bridge to people as stupid as me who hate and bash all homosexuals then help change that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(were you able to sense the sarcasm in that last remark???)


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: chemkid]
    #782645 - 07/29/02 02:48 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

Also if homosexuality was genetic you would find it running in family lines



Actually, I know someone who has 5 sisters, 4 of which are gay....and they all came out, independatly of each other - and it took years before they all 'knew' each other was gay.

-It is my opinion( since science has yet to prove otherwise) Homosexuality is a condition, aberant, but not harmful.
-ood


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: Anonymous]
    #782785 - 07/29/02 04:11 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I really can't argue against that. All I can say is that situation is truely not likely statistically speaking. I personally doubt that it was genetic. Being siblings and all they have everything else in common: environment, parents, schools, church, etc, So whatever it is that means "gay" for a person, which I surely do not know (I just believe it isn't genetic) it would be hard to discern because they have so many other commonalities. You have an example that really can't be argued against until we do know the function of every single gene. Good Post!!!


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/22/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Genetics and Homosexuality------I don't think so [Re: chemkid]
    #784557 - 07/30/02 12:45 AM (20 years, 2 months ago)

I think if genetics played a role for certain than you would be "this" way or "that" way. How is bisexuality explained.


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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