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OfflineGunboat
At the bottom ofJudecca

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 173
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: ]
    #1126280 - 12/09/02 09:31 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

LOL

That reminds me of an episode of South Park... Big Gay Al's Big Gay Animal House. :laugh:


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~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."
- J. Danforth Quayle


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OfflinePoogi
Stranger
Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 610
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Gunboat]
    #1126291 - 12/09/02 09:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride, actually.  :tongue: 


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 14 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: Gunboat]
    #1126333 - 12/09/02 09:44 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I've been hit on by two gay men. One of them creeped me out, the other didn't.

The first one was an older guy who came into the place I worked at, and he was a pretty interesting guy, and fun to chat with. He was also extremely alcoholic. He came in all drunk and proceeded to hit on me HARD. It made me really uncomfortable.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1126427 - 12/09/02 10:04 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I posted something like this in another thread-

The first time I took shrooms, I looked in the mirrior and noticed I was taking on feminine characteristics and features.

Maybe this has something to do with Jungs' animus and anima and the repression of those opposite characteristics. I really don't know because I'm not gay nor do I know many people who are gay.

One night my roomate invited a friend over and we all got drunk. This friend of his was all over me and I just thought he was a 'touchy' guy, but I was later informed that he was gay. I suppose I kinda knew it and just ignored it, so I must not HATE gay people.

I don't mind them as long as they don't act extremely gay (like stated above). It's just their preference and I respect that. Just like someone who likes onions, I shouldn't hate them just because I don't like onions.

I can't really say if it's in the genes or what. I have no proof either way.  :tongue: 


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1126459 - 12/09/02 10:16 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

why do you think people turn gay?



One study has shown that 20% of homosexuals were born gay, the other 80% were sucked into it.

"Being bisexual immediately doubles your chances of a date on a Saturday night."
- Woody Allen


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Evolving]
    #1126475 - 12/09/02 10:21 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I think that most gays do become gay (that is, if it has been proven that genes can cause homosexuality).

Do any of you think that souls have a gender when not in a physical body?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Edited by Murex (12/09/02 10:31 PM)


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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 19 years, 5 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1126534 - 12/09/02 10:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I think theres just as strong a possibility that it has to do with imprinting(at a young age), as the possibility that it is caused by genetics. Either way I don't think people choose and I don't think it's something you should judge people by.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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Offlinerommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 3,182
Loc: South GA
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1126587 - 12/09/02 10:44 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I really don't like the guys that are all femenine and shit. No problem with gays though. who knows why they turn outhat way. Some people are chemically the opposite sex.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1126819 - 12/09/02 11:31 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"Making up facts isn't a valid argument."

Obviously I wouldn't just make something up dude.... looks like I trusted a source in the past that I should have verified.. sheesh - I'd tell you if I were making something up.

I thought it went something like this: Same-sex behavior DOES exist in the animal kingdom. From what I'd read, usually, it's either playful antics, or dominance behavior to assert hierarchy. For one male to hop on another male is a very powerful way to communicate his higher position in the "pecking order" of the community. But if you bring in a female in heat, suddenly the male-male behavior is abandoned in favor of the female.

kinda like prison I guess.. haven't been there tho lol

"A lot of gay men talk in a different voice. You know exactly what I'm talking about here. Do you think that they just decide to speak in a different voice once they change their mind and start dating guys?"

Well actually that has occured to me - it seems this kind of talking would be kind of a way to express your sexuality without having to walk around telling everybody you're a homosexual. But of course, I've only verified that with one gay guy so thats certainly heresay as well

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
So you got that lisp, Steve? Do you ever emphasize it if you're wondering about some new dude you just met?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisibleteardrop
wahhh

Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 28
Re: homosexuality [Re: Strumpling]
    #1126875 - 12/09/02 11:50 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I read somewhere that the brain's gender identity isn't fixed until right after birth. The hormones that a fetus is exposed to can masculinize or feminize their brain, and cause homosexuality. Makes sense to me.

Someone mentioned finger-length being linked to homosexuality, that seems to be pretty accurate too. Just wondering, RebelSteve, which finger is longer, your index or ring finger? They say that when a fetus is exposed to a high testosterone to estrogen ratio, their index finger is shorter than their ring finger, and vice versa. So if your index finger is longer than your ring finger, it would support this theory.


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Anonymous

Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1127109 - 12/10/02 12:46 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Everytime a moderator sees a huge jump in the post rate on a subject a little light goes off and they check to see if it is a flame war. I was relieved to see how well the participants in this thread have done so far and again proud to moderate such a great group of people. You guys make my job too easy.

I have studied the phenomenon of homosexuality for a long time and have reached the conclusion that it is a combination of nature/nurture. I have had many gay friends including my best man at my wedding. That was in 1975 when it wasn't "cool to be gay".

I am not a homophobe. In fact, I do not like the title because it is preferential. It is a derogatory statement, by definition, that people who do not like homosexuals are afraid of them or afraid of homosexuality. That is a pretty one-sided view.

As far as being hit on is concerned there are right ways and wrong ways. I would not mind it if a man found me attractive and let me know it. But if someone tried to force themselves on me they would quickly find force being met by a counter force. I have been in both circumstances.

Cheers,


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Offlineribbit
up till dawn

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: teardrop]
    #1127245 - 12/10/02 01:28 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I read somewhere that the brain's gender identity isn't fixed until right after birth.

interesting, that is sort of like how your body isn't determined until late in the development stage, as in the x x and xy chromosomes, unless thats what your were talking about...

anyhow, i believe that perhaps being attracted to the same sex is a disorder, much like any other disorder, which can be compaired to depression which is called a disorder, which is also referred to as having a disease.

as rebelsteve stated, and i know most the gay people that i know do not choose to be, and wish they were not. that alone should be enough to convince that there is more than meets the eye here. if they were born gay. then from the begining, being gay would be natural already for them.

i believe the majority of gays were born like that, i believe that people were turned gay due to evironmental settings, i believe people turn gay by choice.

i think that the differentials in being homosexual should be adressed as seperate issues. like (A,B,C) that way they could be more definely talked about. kinda like other disorders/diseases have the same name, different class.

is it really natural tho, if it were genetics, wouldn't it be un-natural because it allowed an abnormalty to happen in developement. it only 'seems' natural to us because it is more widely accepted, not as a disorder, but as a way of life. and it is a way of life, but the point is whether they actually chose to or not.

thoughts?



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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 14 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: Evolving]
    #1127256 - 12/10/02 01:34 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

"One study has shown that 20% of homosexuals were born gay, the other 80% were sucked into it."

I don't see how you could accurately do a study like that, especially considering we have no clues about the intricacies about how being gay works.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1127263 - 12/10/02 01:36 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

So if RebelSteve never wanted to be gay because it is a brain disorder, you think it would be ok for him to get his brain fixed if we had a way to do so?

I think it very well could be a disorder, but I think most won't accept this view even if it was proven true.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Llamanose]
    #1127311 - 12/10/02 01:55 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I know people are just gay, but you have to admit that there are some people out there who are gay because of abuse.
Hmmm.. well, the reason I would call this kind of statement homophobic is because you seem to think that gays are born that way or abused into it. What about becoming gay through an experience like.. I don't know.. a flashing light during the development of area X in your brain while you were a baby being held by your loving mother? Why does one have to be fucked with to become gay? Like you said you may not have any problem with gays but when you look at them you pity them for being abused when they were children, as if they deserve sympathy. To me that's a negative view of homosexuals, so I called it homophobic. See what I mean?

People have been pointing out that animals exhibit homosexual behaviour, and others have said that it doesn't count, that it's mostly because of a dominance thing. I would argue that lots of human sex is a dominance thing, in a way. Joe goes to a club, meets Sally, and they go home together to have sex. They both feel better about themselves because someone thinks that they are atractive. They tell their friends about it and so they climb the social ladder, in their heads and in the world.


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Offlineribbit
up till dawn

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Murex]
    #1127315 - 12/10/02 01:56 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

absolutely,

if i were gay, and didn't want to be, wouldn't i feel sick, as in having a mental sickness. i would want a cure or something that would make me not same sex attracted. thats what im talking about, if they were labled, you would be talking about A, because they were born with it, and could possibly have somewayto treat it.

disorder A: would be like a chemical imbalance, treated by meds and a therapist
disorder B: would be like an emotional type disorder, treated by a therapist
disorder C: not so much a disorder, but a life style choice, which can be un-chose if truly desired.


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 26,989
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 6 minutes, 30 seconds
Re: homosexuality [Re: Anonymous]
    #1127409 - 12/10/02 02:30 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

People don't choose to be gay. THey do choose to have sex with other people of the same sex.

People can't choose what the ARE, just what they DO.

I believe in some cases it's biological, and in some cases it's psychological with no biological basis.

People also get caught up in "genetics". They think that everything biological is caused by genes. All genes do is code proteins, there is LOT of leeway in what the finished product will be. Take hermaphrodites for example, they are genetically one sex, but they have physical traits of another.

All mamalian embrios start out FEMALE.

Female is the default sex. Males have genes that normaly produce hormones that turn the default female embrionic body into a male body.

All you guys, you know that "seam" you have going down the middle of your scrotum? That is your vagina. It grew shut while you were an embrio.


--------------------
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


Edited by Baby_Hitler (12/10/02 02:37 AM)


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: homosexuality [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1127647 - 12/10/02 03:45 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

People can't choose what the ARE, just what they DO

That is a very good, concise point!

BTW, I am not sure if I'd take the pill or not. I probably would, though.


--------------------
Namaste.


Edited by RebelSteve33 (12/10/02 03:47 AM)


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1127682 - 12/10/02 03:59 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

All you guys, you know that "seam" you have going down the middle of your scrotum? That is your vagina. It grew shut while you were an embrio.
Ugh! CHRIST I don't want to think of any part of my body as a "seam." It makes me feel like one day that part of me will tear open and another being will poke its head through and then drop out from inside of me onto the floor! SICK!

BTW I was gonna have a HUGE vagina!


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1127730 - 12/10/02 04:23 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Genetically speaking it is very unlikely that this is the root of homosexuality. The entire human genome has finally been mapped (except for the exons) and nothing has remotely pointed in this direction (although there are still many genes whose functions are unknown, it still does not appear to be genetic) a more like reason is one of early developmental hormone release. The male form is actually an imposition onto the female form. Every fetus starts as a female form. Eventually a huge increase in testosterone begins developement of the male sex organs. This is the single most important difference between the X and Y chromosome....otherwise they are very similar (there are other notable differences).

So, any problem with the production, release, or regulation of testosterone can greatly affect the fetus.

Are gays born that way......likely.......is it genetic.....unlikely (although nothing is proven conclusively yet)


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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