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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 11 years, 6 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: Fed911]
    #1128987 - 12/10/02 03:07 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

do you have any particular reasoning or logic behind your claim that "gays should be shot," fed911?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: Strumpling]
    #1129076 - 12/10/02 03:36 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I think maybe it was meant to be a joke.

He's a comedic genius.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 26,817
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 37 minutes, 35 seconds
Re: homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1129290 - 12/10/02 04:43 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

Arrrgh!
Not genetically! Genes don't determine sex! They could cause a change in development that would lead to different sexuality.




I guess by your definition then genes don't determine whether an organism is a human, or a billie goat, or a banana.


--------------------
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


LET'S GO, DARWIN!


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: homosexuality [Re: Fed911]
    #1129300 - 12/10/02 04:46 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

round up those beers, steers, and queers, and you can shoot it all over me, cowboy. yippy yo hi yay, pard'ner :grin:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: ]
    #1129363 - 12/10/02 05:07 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

What I find interesting is the intensity with which some of the members argue about this issue. That always means they have some sort of vested interest in the outcome. The ego is in full bloom when that happens.

It's good to have a monator like you here then Mr. Mushrooms. I like the way you think.

:wink:  :wink: :wink:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Edited by Murex (12/10/02 05:08 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1129585 - 12/10/02 06:09 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Um. They do. They don't determine sex though, that's determined in the womb.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlineupupup
guardian

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Murex]
    #1129611 - 12/10/02 06:19 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Here here... much praise....


--------------------
Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 26,817
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 37 minutes, 35 seconds
Re: homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1129637 - 12/10/02 06:31 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

>>Um. They do. They don't determine sex though, that's determined in the womb.

Sex is determined by hormones that are made by proteins that are encoded by genes.

Normaly XX results in a female, and XY results in a male. The genes are the main controlling factor.

That's what I meant by "genetically one sex"

"genetically male" means about as much as "hypotherically feasable".


--------------------
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


LET'S GO, DARWIN!


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1129679 - 12/10/02 06:53 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Here is an article that was published in Circle magazine by a man I once shared home and bed (on occasion) with. Though I don't take much pleasure in thinking about how our friendship ended, I'm grateful for the inspirational perspective on gaeity he shared, in which for some it is not only an issue of nature/nurture, but a transcendental matter of heritage and birthright of one's Self.


Dear Gods! Queer Gods?!

Few would argue with the statement that gay, bi, and
transgender men have had to struggle for acceptance
within the mainstream religions of the world. However,
some folks might be surprised to learn that queer men
have not always had an easy time of it in today&#8217;s nature-
based and Pagan religions, despite the reputation of
those faiths as reservoirs of tolerance and progressive
values. Indeed, up until fairly recent times, queer men
were virtually shut out of paths such as Traditional
Witchcraft, or else were forced to subsume their
identities and play roles that did not honor their own
unique threads in the warp and weft of Creation&#8217;s
tapestry.

Like the mainstream religions, the paths of Witchcraft,
Paganism and Nature Spirituality have sometimes been
conflicted when trying to fit their queer brethren into
the mythos and the magick that make up their
worldviews. Some Priest/esses have gone so far as to
say that, because they do not participate in the
creation of life, queer men have no place in ritual or
myth. Such reasoning appears to be breathtakingly
myopic at best when compared to the overwhelming
documentation of queer men as shamans and priests
throughout time and across cultures. A listing of the
many Gods Who have gender-variant and/or homoerotic
stories and imagery associated with Them includes the
likes of Zeus, Dionysos, Hermes, Coyote, Tammuz, Set,
Oshumare, Apollo, Loki, Skanda, Freyr, Xolotl, and
Shango. An examination of the mythologies surrounding
these Gods (and many others) -- the collected artwork,
the surviving writings, and even the criticisms of
successor faiths -- leads one to an incontrovertible
conclusion. Most Gods are queer Gods.

Let&#8217;s face it. If your God abducts beautiful young men
to share his bed (to the consternation of His Goddess
wife), that&#8217;s queer. If your God slugs down entheogenic
brews, dances ecstatically, and makes His rounds through
every man and woman in the crowd like a switch-hitting
social butterfly, that&#8217;s pretty queer. And if your God
changes into female clothing or takes on a female form
in order to have sex with another God, AND becomes
pregnant to boot &#8211; well, that&#8217;s real queer! In this
sense, queer Gods, and the men who have served Them,
have been with mankind since the dawn of time.

Traditions have come into existence in the last several
decades to honor this thread of queer consciousness and
experience. These have included the Minoan Brotherhood
in 1975 and the Radical Faeries in 1977. The Minoan
Brotherhood is a men&#8217;s ritual Witchcraft Tradition
founded by Gardnerian and Welsh Elder and classical
scholar Eddie Buczynski. Its goal is to provide a safe
and sacred place for gay and bisexual men, who were
often excluded from Traditionalist covens, to work
Witchcraft. The Deities of the Minoan Brotherhood are
the Great Mother, Rhea, and Her Divine Son, Asterion.

Asterion is known as The Starry One. He is the Bull of
Heaven, whose black hide is mottled with the innumerable
stars of the Universe. He is both the Son and consort
of Rhea. In the Minoan Brotherhood, Asterion is the
patron of men-loving men. He is both brother and
lover. To Minoan initiates, when one looks into the
eyes of one&#8217;s lover, one is looking into the eyes of
Asterion. And the reflection of oneself in those same
eyes is also the reflection of Asterion, and so on in an
infinite progression of love. The tide of passion that
sweeps through a queer man, whether on a dance floor, in
a civil rights march, or during the frenzied coupling in
bed, is the pounding heartbeat of Asterion. His bellow
is the groan of Life incarnate. His stamping hooves are
the pulse of tide and time. In His vegetal aspects, He
is equivalent to Dionysos and other dying and rising
Gods of the earth. His is the dance of eternity, the
visionary ecstasy, the nurturing calm of easy strength,
the rest before renewal, and the humor of it all. A Son
both devoted and divine, Asterion is proof that the Gods
manifest Themselves as necessary to preserve and protect
that which is necessary for the wellbeing of Their
people.

Ultimately, it does not matter whether one believes that
man made the Gods, or the Gods made man. If the former,
then the myths associated with the Gods reflect the vein
of queer consciousness that runs through the human
psyche. Their same-sex love affairs, gender-bending,
and periodic scrambling of the social order reflects
this queer energy in the mytho-poetic pool of the human
soul. If the latter, then the Creator-Gods have within
Them the Divine spark of this queer consciousness, for
They are the Makers of the Universe and They are the
furnace in which all souls are forged, both queer and
not. The origin of every person on Earth began in this
furnace, with the fusion of like atomic nuclei in the
hearts of long-dead stars. Therefore, may it be said
that like cleaving to like is a matter of heritage, not
heresy. We are all Starry Ones. Blessed be.


Further Reading

Conner, Randy P.; Blossom of Bone: Reclaiming the
Connections between Homoeroticism and the Sacred. Harper
Collins, San Francisco, 1993. ISBN 0-06-250257-3

Conner, Randy, et al.; Cassell's Encyclopedia of Queer
Myth, Symbol and Spirit. Cassell, London, 1997. ISBN 0-
304-33760-9

Evans, Arthur; Witchcraft and the Gay Counterculture.
Fag Rag Books, Boston, 1978. ISBN 0-915480-01-8

Evans, Arthur; The God of Ecstasy: Sex-Roles and the
Madness of Dionysos. St. Martin's Press, New York, 1988.
ISBN 0-312-01033-8

Roscoe, Will; Queer Spirits, A Gay Men's Myth Book.
Beacon Press, Boston, 1995. ISBN 0-8070-7939-1



Garan du is a High Priest in the Minoan Brotherhood and
co-founder and co-facilitator of The Green Faerie Grove
in Columbus, Ohio. He has presented workshops on queer
spirituality at PSG since 2000 CE.
www.greenfaeriegrove.org

Leap of Faith
(c) 2002 Garan du

O Asterion!
My God!
Great Bull of Heaven
Whose stride spans infinities.
I meet Your steady gaze,
I grasp Your shining horns
And leap
And tumble, fumbling
Riding across the rumbling Cosmos
Of Your star-spattered back
Till finally
Lungs burning
Legs aching
Sight fading
A last
Gasp!
And shuddering I fling myself
Up
And
Away
Into the waiting arms of
My catcher
My brother
My lover
My God.
Asterion.



--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
Male

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1133950 - 12/12/02 02:53 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Most people are heterosexual, some are homosexual. Who cares? Why's it such a big deal?


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1133964 - 12/12/02 03:15 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think that people generally "turn" gay so much as they "realize" that they're gay. I had a gay friend in High School who used to date girls, but at some point had some sort of revelation that he was gay. I can't get in his mind, so I can't figure out how he got to that point, but my guess would be that he had been struggling with questions about his sexuality for a long time before getting to that point. Many gay people start out dating members of the opposite sex, most likely because of the societal norms which dictate that that is what they are meant to do. Most likely at some point they start to realize that something just doesn't feel right, and after that start questioning their sexuality. I think many homophobes are people who are afraid to confront their own sexuality and ask the question, "Am I gay?" I myself once asked myself this question, and the answer I came up with was that I was bi. Actually, I don't think at any point I thought I might be gay, because I've always loved women. The point at which I really started questioning my sexuality was after my friend came out of the closet. I would meet some of his gay friends and couldn't help but notice how cute they were. I actually found myself attracted to some of them. My questions about my sexuality were answered when I made out with a guy and not only enjoyed it, but felt perfectly natural about it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: mr_kite]
    #1134427 - 12/12/02 07:09 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

It's such a big deal because some people are making a huge deal out of it by, say, protesting funerals of AIDS victims, or murdering gay people.

Have you ever seen www.godhatesfags.com ?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1134440 - 12/12/02 07:12 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

That's a fucked up website.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: Evolving]
    #1134502 - 12/12/02 07:36 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, it's about as sickening as they come. Check out the "Photos" section...





--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Edited by Phluck (12/12/02 07:38 AM)


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Invisibledee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 2,473
Loc: The Shadow of Neptune
Re: homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1134589 - 12/12/02 08:02 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

Man I was about to post the exact same two photos.
These people's hate seems to be directed randomly at every known institution...
The US Navy, the Red Cross, Laura Bush, the Catholic Church, HBO, the New York Fire Department...



...




Edited by dee_N_ae (12/12/02 04:16 PM)


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Invisibledee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 2,473
Loc: The Shadow of Neptune
Re: homosexuality [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1134599 - 12/12/02 08:08 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

This is just rediculous.
Judging by these photos it is clear to me that hate in this context must be obsolete....

These people fear what is unknown to them and apparently the subject of butt sex between two guys wraps up all their fear and hate into a nice little package complete with colorful signs, smiling photos and a slick web site.

Oh and of course, good 'ol "God" happens to be on their side.


Edited by dee_N_ae (12/12/02 08:09 AM)


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OfflineSterile
mushroom lover
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 2,526
Loc: under the Amanita
Last seen: 1 year, 30 days
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1134786 - 12/12/02 09:19 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

After reaching a sertain level of conciousness...you can be anything you want to be, and get pleasure out of anything you want.
It is just a matter of choice.
If you want to control your thoughts and emotions, you can.


--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek




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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: Phluck]
    #1134831 - 12/12/02 09:46 AM (19 years, 5 months ago)

awww.......no place to post or chat on that site :frown:  I was going to have so much fun......oh well


--------------------
Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: homosexuality [Re: ribbit]
    #1135656 - 12/12/02 03:03 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

i think everyone is bi to be hoenst.
people always say "it's the inside that counts" and i believe it. i fall in love with a soul.
and if the body of that soul happens to be the same sex as me, then so be it.
but thats just my opinion :P


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: homosexuality [Re: soylent_green]
    #1136726 - 12/12/02 09:26 PM (19 years, 5 months ago)

i fall in love with a soul.
and if the body of that soul happens to be the same sex as me, then so be it.


I love how you put that! I agree completely.


--------------------
Namaste.


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