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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5666644 - 05/23/06 09:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

How about addressing the rest of her remarks.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Icelander]
    #5666662 - 05/23/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Such as what? Providing links to information I learned in a presentation, not from online pages I looked up 30 seconds before posting?


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5666670 - 05/23/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

NARTH is not exactly an unbiased research group. From what I understand it's largely funded by socially conservative lobby groups. It's also a private organization. But that's besides the point.

Why does it matter if homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom or not? I've seen two male dogs get it on once, I'm not sure what that meant or if it meets the criteria of homosexuality in the animal kingdom, but I doubt it's at all important. I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here. The A.P.A. has asserted time and time again that conversion attempts in regard to sexual orientation are psychologically unhealthy. Gayness is not a problem for society or anyone, so I'm not sure why you're making a big deal over it.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5666718 - 05/23/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It's not a big deal, people can do as they wish with their sexuality. I'm trying to look at the facts of its workings on a physiological level, and I'm not sure I appreciate that being twisted to sound like I'm descriminating against a group of people.

People can choose all sorts of things for themselves, but that doesn't make it right to claim a nontruth in order to support it. So far I don't see conclusive information factoring in homosexuality as "natural."

It looks like people don't want to search to know the truth in this thread, they just want approval for their pre-existing viewpoint.
Basilides, I think you were the only one to provide reasonable responses.

I'm leaving this thread.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5666778 - 05/23/06 10:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It seems to me, by referring to groups like NARTH, that you believe homosexuality is something that should be changed. Explore the origins of sexuality all you wish, but by referring to groups like NARTH you're throwing your position into a biased conundrum in itself, as the specific goal of NARTH is therapeutic conversion, methods that basically fly in the face of the American Psychological Association's official stance on the matter.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflinePed
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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5666788 - 05/23/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Edit:

Note: this reply is meant for FWG, not Basilides, as erroneously specified in the post title.



>> Are you equally agansit Boy Scouts of America parades? The last time I checked, it was all right to form a group and to celebrate the group and its aspects.

This does not address my point. I am not against demonstrations because they are demonstrations, I am against demonstrations which serve only to foment conflict, and not to increase awareness.


>> I guess it is crude and obnoxious to make an example of the fact that one can practice ones right when another group refutes and denies ones rights, eh?

This does not address my point. I don't find it crude and obnoxious to stand up for ones rights; I find it crude and obnoxious to exaggerate the contrast between one group and another. This is irrespective of whether or not one group oppresses the other.

The in-your-face-now-deal-with-it behaviour of much of the gay community is as oppressive as the behaviour of those who tailor the law against their civil rights.


>> Cultural diversity is to be cherished and celebrated. It isn't a negative display when Native Americans hold a pow-wow, is it? Community should not be homogenized, just as genetics should not be. Variety is the spice of life, variety is responsible for the continued existance of life. Why do you feel that variety should not be recognized, demonstrated, reveled?

This does address my point. I am not speaking against demonstrations which celebrate diversity; I am speaking against demonstrations which serve to increase divisiveness, be it directly through intention or indirectly through ignorance and self-importance.


>> Is that their fault? A black man walking down a street in the South, perhaps glancing at a white woman has stirred up discontent in the white people in the area, actually inciting the hatred that the white men carried in their hearts, bringing them to murder the black man.

Anyone with insight into the issue can plainly see that the black man was not serving to advance black rights by actively practicing black rights.


The demonstrations I'm speaking of, and the intention I recognize behind them, are over and above the mere exercise of civil liberty. Suppose the same black man were to confront an armed white man, knowing the hatred he has for him, saying "I am black and I have rights and your daughter and I will sleep together whether you like it or not." If the white man attacks the black man and murders him, this is an atrocity. At the same time, however, it was foolish of the black man to make such a confrontation. He was not merely exercising his rights, nor was he merely standing up for them, he was instigating a conflict through deliberately provocative behaviour, the circumstances of which he was sufficiently cognisant of to make a better judgement.

This example might be a bit extreme, but it reflects the point.


>> Society is a complacent firehouse that will not reach for its extinguishers unless it is a blazing forest fire. If there is a societal problem, it needs to be magnifed. Otherwise, society will shrug and continue on its normal routine.

This has been the method our society uses to know itself for thousands of years, and it is still a miserable society fundamentally divided against itself, at war with itself, constantly struggling against the momentum of it's own disintegration.

The way to oppose divisiveness is with acceptance, not confrontation. The way to oppose hatred is with love, not aggression.


>> Please explain to me very consisely and with vivid imagery the difference between the struggle for gay rights and the civil rights movement of the '60's.

There is very little difference.

If you check carefully, there is as strong an undercurrent of racism in our society today as there was 50 years ago when black women were not allowed to sit at the front of the bus. Sure, black people have their rights; they can vote, have jobs, get an equal education, have equal opportunities; they are free from slavery, etc., but they are still widely hated. Very little has been done to address the attitude behind depriving their rights in the first place. Instead, the whole focus has been on securing rights on paper.

The same occurs now within the gay community. Very little attention is paid to the socio-psychological problem that gives rise to homophobia, as well as the inclination of lawmakers to oppress their civil liberties. Instead, a tremendous noise has been made, not for the sake of encouraging understanding and fellowship, but for forcing society to comply with the wishes of the minority group.

When one group, be it a majority group or a minority group, employs aggression as a means of forcing conformity, it seeds resentment and perpetuates the root of the problem: ignorance, divisiveness, and it's fruit, hatred. That is what occurred between the black community and the caucasian community, and it is what is occurring now between the homosexual and heterosexual communities.

Even if all gay rights are secured throughout the world, the problem will continue to ferment just below the surface, where it is relatively easy to ignore.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


Edited by Ped (05/23/06 11:03 PM)


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Ped]
    #5666823 - 05/23/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Who was that response meant for?  :confused:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5666827 - 05/23/06 10:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Some how I think she has spent as much time in college studying human sexuality as you have. In fact maybe much more. You assume much about the person you are debating with. Like telling her she doesn't know much how a womans vagina feels. Can you share any personal experience in the sexual realm as far as anal intercourse is concerned. Any lab work? I have and I know that my anus has lots of feeling in it long before it gets near my prostate.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Icelander]
    #5666837 - 05/23/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think this calls for a good old fashioned experiment.

Anyone got a banana?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflinePed
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Re: On gayness [Re: Basilides]
    #5666895 - 05/23/06 11:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry, my reply was meant for FWG.


--------------------


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: On gayness [Re: Ped]
    #5666972 - 05/23/06 11:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

As for your post..

You have excellect points. The French historian/philosopher Michel Foucault contended that most, if not all contemporary homophobia (other than religiousity-based homophobia) is mostly a reaction to identity politics in respect to LGBT communities. Foucault was gay himself, and it was his belief that "gay pride" etc. merely reinforced an identity that was already reactionary to the treatment of gays in society. Originally it was society that was cruel towards gays when an "us versus them" approach was taken. The same approach is taken by gay activists who salivate over the slightest homophobic remark, potential celebrities who might be gay, etc. Heck, some gay activists are even in the business of outting "homo-cons"; known socially conservative people who happen to also be gay.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Icelander]
    #5667297 - 05/24/06 12:39 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You assume much about the person you are debating with. Like telling her she doesn't know much how a womans vagina feels.




WTF  :confused:

It wasn't sexuality I studied in college, however the presentation was on the different sex related damages that the hospital deals with and why they're caused.


Edited by Disco Cat (05/24/06 12:45 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5667669 - 05/24/06 05:29 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Nerves does not equal pleasure, and the anus receives its erogenous zone quality from a source that is not actually in the anus, or lining the anus. The anus does not even require penetration to stimulate the prostate gland.




Quote:


The anus has a relatively high concentration of nerve endings and is an erogenous zone.




As in, the anus itself. Only a fucking moron is going to do damage to their anus or get diseases through anal sex. Perhaps the reason your head is so far up your own ass is because you are the only one who does not have sensation in your anus? :lol:

The rest of your points aren't even worth addressing. Your ignorance and your childish attitude aren't worth the time.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5667766 - 05/24/06 07:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So far I don't see conclusive information factoring in homosexuality as "natural."

I really don't get what you mean by natural? Do you really mean normal? I grew up on a farm. Guess some of those animals had a "disease". I tend to look at any behavior engaged in as natural. All life is natural to me and unnatural is an illusion. The fact that humans engage in homosexual activity makes it natural whether the majority engage in it or not. I'm amused that anyone cares a hoot about someone elses activity enough to label it. Unless of course they have insecurities around the activity or have a religious adjenda. That's common enough.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (05/24/06 10:41 AM)


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5669280 - 05/24/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:


The anus has a relatively high concentration of nerve endings and is an erogenous zone.




As in, the anus itself. Only a fucking moron is going to do damage to their anus or get diseases through anal sex. Perhaps the reason your head is so far up your own ass is because you are the only one who does not have sensation in your anus? :lol:
The rest of your points aren't even worth addressing. Your ignorance and your childish attitude aren't worth the time.




Says the pseudo-philosopher who time and time again shows his self-invented metaphysics to be devoid of reality. Remeber that post where I exampled how to post like FWG? "No susbstance, all empty jabs?" :lol:

Quote:

says FWG:
Only a fucking moron is going to do damage to their anus or get diseases through anal sex.



Maybe, but I think that's unfairly insulting a pretty broad crowd. :lol:


Quote:

I really don't get what you mean by natural? Do you really mean normal?



I already explained what I mean, you could go back and find it. I said that it was a sketchy word to describe what I want to express and that it is not the religious version. I gave a better description, but it took an entire sectence to explain whereas "natural" was just referencing that sentence by a single word.


Quote:

I grew up on a farm. Guess some of those animals had a "disease".



You can read the article I posted about animal homosexuality, and I'll be happy to read your comments.


Edited by Disco Cat (05/24/06 04:29 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5669354 - 05/24/06 04:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Says the wannabe-philosophic fool who time and time again shows his self-invented metaphysics to be devoid of reality. Remeber that post where I exampled how to post like FWG? "No content, all empty jabs?" Keep up the evidence. :lol:




Hell, no one else can demonstrate how my points are not reflective of reality, especially not you, so I might as well do it myself. :lol: :rolleyes:

Quote:

says FWG:
Go to your local hospital and ask for some examples you fucking moron :lol:




Exactly, I am sure there are examples of fucking morons who improperly engaged in anal sex, and paid a trip to the hospital as a result. A lot of fucking morons go to the hospital for treatment of their injuries and illness that result from their being a moron. What can you do, beyond make a lame attempt to state that homosexuality is not natural? :shrug: :lol:


Quote:


I've already explained what I mean, go back and look for it. I said that it was a sketchy word to describe what I want to express and that it is not the religious version. I gave a better description, but it took an entire sectence to explain whereas "natural" was just referencing that sentence by a single word.




You haven't in any way explained what you meant, or exactly what your point is. What is your point? What are you speaking about? You've warned us that the anus is not as suited for insertion of a penis as the vagina is, and you've also incorrectly stated that the anus is without "pleasure nerves".

So, is that it? Did you just want to let us know that people who do not know how to properly have anal sex might tear it or get disease? What else are you clumsily attempting to comment on, beyond that and also commenting on my personal character and nature (I know, its impossible to resist, people envy me and lash out at me because they simply cannot be me).

Clear and concise now, what's your point?

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5669359 - 05/24/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
It wasn't sexuality I studied in college, however the presentation was on the different sex related damages that the hospital deals with and why they're caused.




So your limited perspective is pretty much akin to the perspective that police might tend to develop concerning the nature of drug users - as only the really stupid drug users who probably have criminal tendencies are the ones getting busted, they are the only drug users that they deal with, and thus they form an opinion on the effects of drugs solely based upon that. :lol:

Once again, what's your point, now? Great, the anus isn't as suited to a penis as the vagina is. And......... so what?

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On gayness [Re: Ped]
    #5669379 - 05/24/06 04:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
If you check carefully, there is as strong an undercurrent of racism in our society today as there was 50 years ago when black women were not allowed to sit at the front of the bus.  Sure, black people have their rights; they can vote, have jobs, get an equal education, have equal opportunities; they are free from slavery, etc., but they are still widely hated.  Very little has been done to address the attitude behind depriving their rights in the first place.  Instead, the whole focus has been on securing rights on paper.




First and foremost, I don't believe that black people are still "widely hated". I'm not sure what exactly you are basing that on. :confused:

The benefits from the civil rights movement are obvious. Regardless of whether or not there is a subtle negative attitude or distinction agansit blacks amongst certain individuals or groups, they have gained a lot of ground, the ground that matters most.

The focus has not been on securing rights on paper, although that certainly has helped. Black people are no longer lynched, they are free to act in the same manners as white people. If one cannot discern the difference between the general state of being black now as compared to the 1950's, or to recognize how important this difference is, then there is a problem.

An individual or group's rights need to be secured first, even if it is simply forced/legislated tolerance. The attitudes of others will subtly change with the times. Give the gays their rights, give it time, and see how things change. I think it is unrealistic to think that it is negative for them to take a stand in the manners that they have. It is necessary in order for the question of their rights and their position within society to be directly addressed, even if conflict arises as a result. It is not their fault if their actions forment hatred in others, and the fact that their actions could forment such hatred and violence in others demonstrates that they need to act.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Edited by fireworks_god (05/24/06 04:45 PM)


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5669400 - 05/24/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Exactly, I am sure there are examples of fucking morons who improperly engaged in anal sex, and paid a trip to the hospital as a result. A lot of fucking morons go to the hospital for treatment of their injuries and illness that result from their being a moron. What can you do, beyond make a lame attempt to state that homosexuality is not natural?




Your comments won't be relevent until you actually read the thread. Please feel free to read the post above yours to get a clue on me saying "Natural." :rofl:

Quote:


You haven't in any way explained what you meant, or exactly what your point is. What is your point? What are you speaking about? You've warned us that the anus is not as suited for insertion of a penis as the vagina is, and you've also incorrectly stated that the anus is without "pleasure nerves".



Not my fault you have problems with reading or comprehension :shrug:

Maybe you'll tell us exactly which parts of your anus give you your indentified sensations of pleasure, and also tell how you bring those about. Then we'll see where their source lies. You've warped things by claiming that I suggested the lack of nerves in the anus.  :crazy: :rolleyes:

Quote:


So, is that it? Did you just want to let us know that people who do not know how to properly have anal sex might tear it or get disease? What else are you clumsily attempting to comment on, beyond that and also commenting on my personal character and nature (I know, its impossible to resist, people envy me and lash out at me because they simply cannot be me).



:rolleyes:  :crazy2:


Quote:

Clear and concise now, what's your point?



It's entertaining that you'd try to make your ego trip sound like a rational plea :lol:
If you want to continue this then why don't you start using solid data, and take that data to mean all that can be logically claimed about it and nothing more. Start by explaining the sensations you get in your anus, how you cause them in individual areas and their suspected source, since this is the piece of informaion you show an interest in bringing up. The prostate is stimulated beginning from the exterior of the anus, FYI, by pressure on the chode.


Quote:

Once again, what's your point, now? Great, the anus isn't as suited to a penis as the vagina is. And......... so what?



Sounds like you're beginning to understand.  :thumbup:


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: On gayness [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5669445 - 05/24/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

By the way everybody, I wanted to apologize for the rude way I conducted myself yesterday. 48 hours of no sleep over 2 working days had me in a very impatient and grumpy mood. I meant my claims, but the way I put them out there was overly hostile and I'm sorry for that.  :blush:


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